TED2010
Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish
丹•巴伯尔（Dan Barber）：我如何爱上一条鱼。
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厨师丹•巴伯尔指出很多厨师正在左右为难的问题：如何把鱼类留在菜单上。通过严谨的调查和幽默的方式，巴伯尔讲述了他寻求一条值得喜爱的“可持续性鱼”的过程，以及自从发现了一种在西班牙用非传统的方式养殖出来的极其美味的鱼之后，他所享受到的美食家蜜月。
Dan Barber - Chef
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Dan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
So, I've known a lot of fish in my life.
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我一生中接触过很多鱼。
00:20
I've loved only two.
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只有两种是我的最爱。
00:23
That first one,
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第一种，
00:25
it was more like a passionate affair.
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是源于激情。
00:28
It was a beautiful fish:
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它是一条美丽的鱼，
00:30
flavorful, textured, meaty,
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美味，纹理细腻，肉质丰富，
00:33
a bestseller on the menu.
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是菜单上最受欢迎的鱼。
00:35
What a fish.
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多么美的鱼啊！
00:37
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:40
Even better,
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更好的是，
00:42
it was farm-raised to the supposed highest standards
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它是依照最高标准养殖的，
00:45
of sustainability.
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目的是保持它的可持续性的。
00:48
So you could feel good about selling it.
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而卖他的人也会感到心安理得。
00:52
I was in a relationship with this beauty
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我曾经沉醉于这美丽的关系中，
00:54
for several months.
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时间大概延续了几个月。
00:58
One day, the head of the company called
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有一天，这个公司的高层打电话给我
01:00
and asked if I'd speak at an event
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邀请我参加一个活动
01:02
about the farm's sustainability.
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并就渔业的可持续性发展发表演说。
01:04
"Absolutely," I said.
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我说，“当然可以”。
01:06
Here was a company trying to solve
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这个公司正是要试图解决一个
01:09
what's become this unimaginable problem for us chefs:
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对于我们厨师来说正在变得不可想象的问题。
01:13
How do we keep fish on our menus?
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“我们如何把鱼类留在菜单上？”
01:17
For the past 50 years,
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在过去的50年中，
01:20
we've been fishing the seas
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我们从各个海洋中捕鱼
01:22
like we clear-cut forests.
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就像是砍伐树木。
01:25
It's hard to overstate the destruction.
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绝不是夸大它的破坏性。
01:30
Ninety percent of large fish, the ones we love --
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90%的大型鱼类，那些我们喜爱的种类，
01:33
the tunas, the halibuts, the salmons, swordfish --
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金枪鱼，大比目鱼，三鲑鱼，剑鱼，
01:36
they've collapsed.
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他们都要灭绝了。
01:38
There's almost nothing left.
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几乎没有多少剩下了。
01:41
So, for better or for worse,
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所以，不管是好是坏，
01:44
aquaculture, fish farming, is going to be a part of our future.
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水产养殖业，养鱼业，都会成为我们未来的一部分。
01:47
A lot of arguments against it:
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有很多针对这个行业的言论。
01:49
Fish farms pollute -- most of them do anyway --
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其实它们大部分都是关于养鱼业会污染环境，
01:52
and they're inefficient. Take tuna,
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而且效率很低，比如说金枪鱼。
01:54
a major drawback.
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最大的弊病就是，
01:56
It's got a feed conversion ratio
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养殖金枪鱼的饲料转换率是
01:58
of 15 to one.
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15比1。
02:00
That means it takes fifteen pounds of wild fish
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这个意思是说，每生产1磅金枪鱼肉
02:02
to get you one pound of farm tuna.
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要耗费15磅用其他野生鱼类做的饲料。
02:06
Not very sustainable.
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这可不是很具有可持续发展性。
02:08
It doesn't taste very good either.
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而且也不好吃。
02:11
So here, finally,
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最后，
02:13
was a company trying to do it right.
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这个公司想做些正确事情。
02:15
I wanted to support them.
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我也想支持他们。
02:18
The day before the event,
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在那次活动的前一天，
02:20
I called the head of P.R. for the company.
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我联系了公司的公关部门头头。
02:23
Let's call him Don.
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就让我们暂且称呼他为“唐阁下”。
02:27
"Don," I said, "just to get the facts straight, you guys are famous
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我说：“唐阁下， 据我说知，事实是这样的，你们在海洋捕鱼业十分出名，
02:30
for farming so far out to sea, you don't pollute."
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而且你们不会产生污染。”
02:33
"That's right," he said. "We're so far out,
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他回应： “你说的对。我们作业的地点很远，
02:36
the waste from our fish gets distributed,
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我们捕鱼所产生的污染物都被稀释掉了，
02:39
not concentrated."
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不会集中残留在一个地方。”
02:41
And then he added,
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然后他补充到，
02:43
"We're basically a world unto ourselves.
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“我们算得上是独树一帜。
02:47
That feed conversion ratio? 2.5 to one," he said.
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饲料转换率？2.5比1，” 他说。
02:50
"Best in the business."
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“行业中最好的。”
02:52
2.5 to one, great.
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2.5比1，很好。
02:54
"2.5 what? What are you feeding?"
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“什么2.5比1？你们在喂什么？”
02:56
"Sustainable proteins," he said.
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他回答道：“可持续性蛋白质”。
02:59
"Great," I said. Got off the phone.
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我说：“很好”。然后挂了电话。
03:02
And that night, I was lying in bed, and I thought:
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结果那晚，我躺在床上想：
03:05
What the hell is a sustainable protein?
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可持续性蛋白质是什么鬼东西？
03:07
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:12
So the next day, just before the event, I called Don.
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所以第二天，就在那个活动之前，我打电话给唐阁下。
03:14
I said, "Don, what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
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我问道：'唐阁下，你有没有一些可持续性蛋白质的例子？"
03:18
He said he didn't know. He would ask around.
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他说他不知道。他会去问问周围的人。
03:21
Well, I got on the phone with a few people in the company;
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然后，我和这个公司里的一些人通了电话。
03:23
no one could give me a straight answer
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但是没有人能给我一个明确的答案。
03:26
until finally, I got on the phone
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直到最后，我通上了电话
03:29
with the head biologist.
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对方是生物学专家。
03:31
Let's call him Don too.
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让我也暂且叫他 “唐阁下”。
03:33
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
03:37
"Don," I said,
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我说：“唐阁下”
03:39
"what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
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“可以举例说明一下可持续性蛋白质吗？”
03:42
Well, he mentioned some algaes
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恩，他提到了一些藻类
03:44
and some fish meals,
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还有一些鱼食，
03:46
and then he said chicken pellets.
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然后他提到鸡丸。
03:48
I said, "Chicken pellets?"
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我问道： “鸡丸?”
03:50
He said, "Yeah, feathers, skin,
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他说，“是，羽毛，鸡皮，
03:52
bone meal, scraps,
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骨骼，排泄物，
03:54
dried and processed into feed."
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被晒干加工后添入饲料。”
03:57
I said, "What percentage
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我说：“鸡在饲料中的比例
03:59
of your feed is chicken?"
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是多少？”
04:02
Thinking, you know, two percent.
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想一下，你知道，2%。
04:05
"Well, it's about 30 percent," he said.
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结果他说：“恩，大概占30%，”
04:08
I said, "Don, what's sustainable
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我说，“唐阁下，用鸡喂鱼，
04:11
about feeding chicken to fish?"
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这算什么可持续发展性？”
04:13
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:18
There was a long pause on the line,
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电话的那边安静了很长时间，
04:21
and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world."
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然后他对我说， “世界上就是有太多的鸡了。”
04:24
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:30
I fell out of love with this fish.
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于是，我不再爱这个鱼了。
04:32
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:34
No, not because I'm some self-righteous,
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不，不是因为我是个自以为是，
04:37
goody-two shoes foodie.
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伪善的美食家。
04:39
I actually am.
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其实我是这样的人。
04:41
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:43
No, I actually fell out of love with this fish because, I swear to God,
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不，我不再爱这个鱼了，是因为，我向上帝发誓，
04:45
after that conversation, the fish tasted like chicken.
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在那次对话之后，那个鱼尝起来更像鸡。
04:48
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:58
This second fish,
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这第二条鱼，
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it's a different kind of love story.
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它则是另一种不同的爱情故事。
05:04
It's the romantic kind,
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是很浪漫的那种，
05:07
the kind where the more you get to know your fish,
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那种你越多了解你的鱼，
05:10
you love the fish.
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你就越爱它。
05:13
I first ate it at a restaurant
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我第一次在一个饭店中吃到这种鱼，
05:15
in southern Spain.
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位置在西班牙南部。
05:17
A journalist friend had been talking about this fish for a long time.
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很久以前一个记者朋友和我说过这里。
05:20
She kind of set us up.
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她可以说是个媒人。
05:22
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:24
It came to the table
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那条鱼在桌子上
05:26
a bright, almost shimmering, white color.
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很亮，有着光晕，白色的那种。
05:31
The chef had overcooked it.
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厨师烹饪它的时间过长了。
05:34
Like twice over.
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好像是烹饪了两次。
05:37
Amazingly, it was still delicious.
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但是太神奇了，它还是很好吃。
05:40
Who can make a fish taste good
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谁可以做出这样好吃的鱼
05:44
after it's been overcooked?
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而且还是在烹饪时间过长的情况下？
05:46
I can't,
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我不能，
05:48
but this guy can.
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但是这个人可以。
05:50
Let's call him Miguel --
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让我们叫他米格尔。
05:52
actually his name is Miguel.
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其实他的名字就是米格尔。
05:54
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:57
And no, he didn't cook the fish, and he's not a chef,
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但是，他没有烹调那条鱼，他也不是个厨师。
05:59
at least in the way that you and I understand it.
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至少在你我理解的方式之内他不是。
06:03
He's a biologist
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他是一个生物学家
06:05
at Veta La Palma.
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在薇塔拉帕尔马。
06:07
It's a fish farm in the southwestern corner of Spain.
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他是个位于西班牙西南角的养鱼场。
06:10
It's at the tip of the Guadalquivir river.
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他就在高达尔克维尔河的尖部。
06:13
Until the 1980s,
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直到上个世纪80年代，
06:15
the farm was in the hands of the Argentinians.
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这个渔场是阿根廷人管辖的。
06:18
They raised beef cattle
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他们在这里养牛
06:20
on what was essentially wetlands.
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那个时候这里基本上是湿地。
06:23
They did it by draining the land.
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当时他们把水抽走。
06:25
They built this intricate series of canals,
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然后建造一系列复杂的运河，
06:28
and they pushed water off the land and out into the river.
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他们接着把这里的水排入河流。
06:32
Well, they couldn't make it work,
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但是，他们没有成功，
06:34
not economically.
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我是指经济方面。
06:36
And ecologically, it was a disaster.
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而且对周围的环境造成了巨大的灾难。
06:39
It killed like 90 percent of the birds,
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周围差不多90%的鸟类都消失了，
06:41
which, for this place, is a lot of birds.
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而在这个地区那些是很多的鸟。
06:44
And so in 1982,
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到了1982年，
06:46
a Spanish company with an environmental conscience
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一家具有环保意识的的西班牙公司
06:48
purchased the land.
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购买了这块地。
06:50
What did they do?
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他们做过什么？
06:52
They reversed the flow of water.
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他们逆转了水流的方向。
06:54
They literally flipped the switch.
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他们基本上是搬动卡关。
06:56
Instead of pushing water out,
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代替排水，
06:58
they used the channels to pull water back in.
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他们用这个水渠来把水引进来。
07:00
They flooded the canals.
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他们用水填满了这个运河。
07:02
They created a 27,000-acre fish farm --
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然后建立了一个27000英亩的渔场--
07:06
bass, mullet,
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鲈鱼，梭鱼，
07:08
shrimp, eel --
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虾，鳗鱼 -
07:11
and in the process, Miguel and this company
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在这个工程中，米格尔，还有这个公司，
07:14
completely reversed the ecological destruction.
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完全挽救了这次生态灾难。
07:18
The farm's incredible.
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这个渔场太了不起了。
07:20
I mean, you've never seen anything like this.
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我的意思是说，你从没见过类似的地方。
07:23
You stare out at a horizon
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我看着地平线
07:26
that is a million miles away,
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它是那么的广阔，
07:28
and all you see are flooded canals
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引入您视野的都是被注满水的河道
07:30
and this thick, rich marshland.
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和这个富饶的沼泽湿地
07:35
I was there not long ago with Miguel.
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不久前，我和米格尔去过那儿。
07:38
He's an amazing guy,
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他是个了不起的人，
07:41
like three parts Charles Darwin and one part Crocodile Dundee.
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¾是达尔文，¼是鳄鱼邓迪。
07:44
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:46
Okay? There we are slogging through the wetlands,
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我们进入了湿地，
07:50
and I'm panting and sweating, got mud up to my knees,
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而我是气喘吁吁汗流浃背，淤泥没到了我的膝盖，
07:52
and Miguel's calmly conducting a biology lecture.
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还有米格尔静静讲述的生物讲义。
07:56
Here, he's pointing out a rare Black-shouldered Kite.
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这儿，他指向一只罕见的黑肩鸢。
07:59
Now, he's mentioning the mineral needs of phytoplankton.
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这是，他提到可以满足矿物质需求的浮游植物。
08:03
And here, here he sees a grouping pattern
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还有这，他看到一组图案
08:06
that reminds him of the Tanzanian Giraffe.
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让人联想起坦桑尼亚长颈鹿。
08:11
It turns out, Miguel spent the better part of his career
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结果，米格尔曾经花了很长时间工作在
08:14
in the Mikumi National Park in Africa.
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非洲的米库米国家公园。
08:17
I asked him how he became
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我问他是怎么
08:19
such an expert on fish.
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成为一位鱼类专家的。
08:21
He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish.
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他说： “鱼？我不了解他们。
08:24
I'm an expert in relationships."
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我只是一个关系专家。”
08:27
And then he's off, launching into more talk
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然后他发起了更多的对话
08:29
about rare birds and algaes
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都是有关于稀有鸟类和藻类
08:31
and strange aquatic plants.
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还有特殊的水生植物。
08:33
And don't get me wrong, that was really fascinating, you know,
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请不要误解我，那样的谈话真的是引人入胜，
08:36
the biotic community unplugged, kind of thing.
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关于生物群落一类的事情。
08:39
It's great, but I was in love.
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这都很好，但是我恋爱了。
08:42
And my head was swooning over that
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我脑中始终惦记着那条
08:45
overcooked piece of delicious fish I had the night before.
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我前一晚品尝过被过度烹饪的美味的鱼。
08:48
So I interrupted him. I said,
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所以我中断了他。我说，
08:50
"Miguel, what makes your fish taste so good?"
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“米格尔，什么使你的鱼那么好吃?"
08:52
He pointed at the algae.
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他指向藻类。
08:54
"I know, dude, the algae, the phytoplankton,
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“我知道，兄弟，藻类，浮游植物，
08:57
the relationships: It's amazing.
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关系，这些都很神奇。
09:00
But what are your fish eating?
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但是你的鱼吃什么？
09:02
What's the feed conversion ratio?"
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饲料转换率是多少？？”
09:05
Well, he goes on to tell me
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然后他继续告诉我
09:09
it's such a rich system
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这是一个很富饶的系统，
09:11
that the fish are eating what they'd be eating in the wild.
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这些鱼吃的就是它们在野外吃的东西。
09:14
The plant biomass, the phytoplankton,
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植物的生物质，浮游植物，
09:17
the zooplankton, it's what feeds the fish.
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浮游生物，都是鱼的饲料。
09:19
The system is so healthy,
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这个系统非常健康，
09:21
it's totally self-renewing.
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它完全是自我更新的。
09:23
There is no feed.
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没有任何饲料。
09:26
Ever heard of a farm that doesn't feed its animals?
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听说过一个不喂动物饲料的农场吗？
09:33
Later that day, I was driving around this property with Miguel,
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那天晚些时候，我和米格尔开着车在周围兜风，
09:35
and I asked him, I said, "For a place that seems so natural,
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我问他，“这样一个看起来如此自然的地方，”
09:39
unlike like any farm I'd ever been at,
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不像其它任何一个我曾经见过的农场，
09:44
how do you measure success?"
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“你如何衡量成功？”
09:47
At that moment, it was as if
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就在那时，仿佛有一位
09:50
a film director called for a set change.
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电影导演突然要求改变场景。
09:52
And we rounded the corner
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我们转过弯
09:54
and saw the most amazing sight:
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看到最美的画面，
09:56
thousands and thousands of pink flamingos,
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成千上万的粉色火烈鸟，
09:59
a literal pink carpet for as far as you could see.
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可以说是一张粉色的地毯。
10:03
"That's success," he said.
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他说，“那就是成功。”
10:06
"Look at their bellies, pink.
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“看他们的腹部，粉色的。
10:08
They're feasting."
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他们正在享受盛宴。”
10:10
Feasting? I was totally confused.
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盛宴？我完全迷惑了。
10:12
I said, "Miguel, aren't they feasting on your fish?"
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我说，“米格尔，他们的盛宴不正是你的鱼吗？”
10:14
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:16
"Yes," he said.
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“正是,"他说。
10:18
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:24
"We lose 20 percent of our fish
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“鸟类会吃掉我们20%的鱼
10:26
and fish eggs to birds.
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还有鱼卵。
10:30
Well, last year, this property
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而且，去年，这个渔场
10:32
had 600,000 birds on it,
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有600000只鸟，
10:34
more than 250 different species.
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超过250个不同的种群。
10:36
It's become, today, the largest
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今天，这里已经成为最大的
10:39
and one of the most important
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而且是全欧洲最重要的
10:42
private bird sanctuaries in all of Europe."
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私有鸟类自然保护区之一。
10:46
I said, "Miguel, isn't a thriving bird population
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我说，“米格尔，这么多的鸟类数量
10:49
like the last thing you want on a fish farm?"
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不是一个渔场最不想要到的吗？”
10:51
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:53
He shook his head, no.
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不，他摇摇头。
10:55
He said, "We farm extensively,
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他说, “我们是广义上的养殖，
10:58
not intensively.
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不是刻意的。
11:01
This is an ecological network.
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这是一个生态网络。
11:04
The flamingos eat the shrimp.
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这些火烈鸟吃掉虾。
11:06
The shrimp eat the phytoplankton.
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虾吃浮游动物。
11:08
So the pinker the belly,
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所以他们的肚子上粉色越鲜艳，
11:10
the better the system."
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代表这个系统越好。”
11:13
Okay, so let's review:
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好的，让我们重新审视一下。
11:15
a farm that doesn't feed its animals,
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一个农场不给它的动物喂食，
11:18
and a farm that measures its success
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而且它衡量自己的成功是
11:21
on the health of its predators.
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根据它的天敌。
11:23
A fish farm, but also a bird sanctuary.
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一个渔场，同时也是个鸟类庇护所。
11:26
Oh, and by the way, those flamingos,
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而且，顺便说一句，那些火烈鸟，
11:28
they shouldn't even be there in the first place.
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它们本不应该在那里。
11:30
They brood in a town
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它们在城里繁殖
11:32
150 miles away,
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而且是在150英里以外的，
11:34
where the soil conditions
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那里的土壤状况
11:36
are better for building nests.
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更加适合做巢。
11:38
Every morning, they fly
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每天早上，它们飞行
11:40
150 miles into the farm.
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150英里来到这个渔场。
11:44
And every evening, they fly 150 miles back.
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到了晚上，他们在飞行150英里回家。
11:47
(Laughter)
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（笑声)
11:54
They do that because they're able to follow
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他们这样做是因为他们能顺着
11:57
the broken white line
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A92号高速公路
11:59
of highway A92.
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的白线。
12:01
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:03
No kidding.
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没开玩笑。
12:05
I was imagining a "March of the Penguins" thing,
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我一直在脑海中想象类似【帝企鹅日记】的事，
12:08
so I looked at Miguel.
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我看着米格尔。
12:10
I said, "Miguel, do they fly
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我说，“米格尔，它们飞行
12:12
150 miles to the farm,
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150英里来渔场，
12:14
and then do they fly
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然后它们晚上再
12:16
150 miles back at night?
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飞150英里回去吗？
12:18
Do they do that for the children?"
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它们这么做是为了孩子吗？”
12:21
He looked at me like I had just quoted a Whitney Houston song.
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他看着我就像是我刚刚引用了惠特尼休斯顿的歌。
12:24
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:28
He said, "No; they do it because the food's better."
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他说，“不，他们这么做因为这里的食物更好。”
12:31
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
12:33
I didn't mention the skin of my beloved fish,
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我还没有提到我最爱的鱼的皮吧，
12:41
which was delicious -- and I don't like fish skin;
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真的是很美味，而且我通常不喜欢鱼皮。
12:43
I don't like it seared, I don't like it crispy.
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我通常不喜欢烤的。我也不喜欢脆的。
12:46
It's that acrid, tar-like flavor.
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它有辛辣，像柏油那样的味道。
12:50
I almost never cook with it.
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我从不把它和鱼一起做。
12:53
Yet, when I tasted it at that restaurant in southern Spain,
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但是，当我在西班牙南部的那个餐馆尝到它的时候，
12:56
it tasted not at all like fish skin.
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尝起来不像是鱼皮。
12:59
It tasted sweet and clean,
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它尝起来微甜而且干净
13:02
like you were taking a bite of the ocean.
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就像你尝了一口海洋自然的味道。
13:05
I mentioned that to Miguel, and he nodded.
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我向米格尔提到我的想法，他点点头。
13:07
He said, "The skin acts like a sponge.
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他说，“鱼皮的作用就像是海绵。
13:09
It's the last defense before anything enters the body.
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它是阻止任何物质进入到体内的最后的防线。
13:12
It evolved to soak up impurities."
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它的作用是吸收杂质。”
13:14
And then he added,
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然后他继续说，
13:16
"But our water has no impurities."
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“但是我们的水没有杂质.”
13:22
OK. A farm that doesn't feed its fish,
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好的。一个渔厂不喂它的鱼。
13:26
a farm that measures its success
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一个渔场衡量它的成功
13:29
by the success of its predators.
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是依照它天敌的成功。
13:31
And then I realized when he says,
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然后我意识到当他说，
13:33
"A farm that has no impurities,"
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一个渔场没有杂质，
13:36
he made a big understatement,
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他轻描淡写的说，
13:38
because the water that flows through that farm
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因为在渔场中流过的水
13:40
comes in from the Guadalquivir River.
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来自于高达尔克维尔河。
13:43
It's a river that carries with it
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那条河中含有
13:45
all the things that rivers tend to carry these days:
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现在所有的一条河里都有的东西，
13:48
chemical contaminants,
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化学污染物，
13:50
pesticide runoff.
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农药残留。
13:52
And when it works its way through the system
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然后当它进入这个系统
13:55
and leaves,
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之后离开时，
13:57
the water is cleaner than when it entered.
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水质变得比来时更干净。
13:59
The system is so healthy, it purifies the water.
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这个系统很卫生，它可以过滤这儿的水。
14:03
So, not just a farm that doesn't feed its animals,
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所以，这个渔场不只是不喂动物，
14:05
not just a farm that measures its success
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不只是衡量它的成功
14:08
by the health of its predators,
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根据天敌的健康状况，
14:10
but a farm that's literally a water purification plant --
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但是是一个渔场基本上还是个水净化厂，
14:16
and not just for those fish,
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而且不仅仅是为那些鱼，
14:19
but for you and me as well.
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更是为了你和我。
14:21
Because when that water leaves, it dumps out into the Atlantic.
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因为当水离开这里时，它会流入大西洋。
14:26
A drop in the ocean, I know,
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我知道，这个作用是十分微薄的，
14:28
but I'll take it, and so should you,
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但是我很重视它，而且你们应该也是，
14:31
because this love story,
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因为这个爱情故事，
14:35
however romantic,
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不但浪漫，
14:37
is also instructive.
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而且有教育意义。
14:39
You might say it's a recipe
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你也许会说它是未来
14:41
for the future of good food,
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美食的食谱，
14:43
whether we're talking about bass or beef cattle.
315
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不管是我们在说鲈鱼还是牛肉。
14:47
What we need now is
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我们现在需要的是
14:49
a radically new conception of agriculture,
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一个全新的农业概念，
14:52
one in which the food actually tastes good.
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一种真正的美食。
14:54
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
14:56
(Applause)
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（掌声）
15:02
But for a lot people,
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但是对很多人来说，
15:04
that's a bit too radical.
322
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那太极端了。
15:07
We're not realists, us foodies;
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我们不是现实主义者，我们的美食家。
15:09
we're lovers.
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我们是爱人。
15:11
We love farmers' markets,
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我们爱农产品市场。
15:13
we love small family farms,
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我们爱小型的家庭式农场。
15:16
we talk about local food,
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我们谈论区域性食品。
15:18
we eat organic.
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我们吃有机食品。
15:21
And when you suggest these are the things
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然后当你建议这些食品
15:23
that will ensure the future of good food,
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会保证未来的美食，
15:27
someone, somewhere stands up and says,
331
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某人在某地站起来说，
15:29
"Hey guy, I love pink flamingos,
332
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"我说哥们，我爱粉色的火烈鸟，
15:33
but how are you going to feed the world?"
333
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但是你怎么让这个世界填饱肚子？
15:36
How are you going to feed the world?
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你怎么为这个世界填饱肚子？"
15:39
Can I be honest?
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我可以坦诚点吗？
15:41
I don't love that question.
336
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我不喜欢你的问题。
15:44
No, not because we already produce
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不，不只是因为我们已经生产
15:46
enough calories to more than feed the world.
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了远远超出我们这个世界需要的卡路里。
15:49
One billion people will go hungry today.
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今天十亿人还是在饿着肚子。
15:52
One billion -- that's more than ever before --
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十亿--那比以前任何时候都多--
15:56
because of gross inequalities in distribution,
341
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根本原因在于总体上的分配不平衡，
15:59
not tonnage.
342
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不是按吨位算的。
16:02
Now, I don't love this question because it's determined the logic
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我不喜欢这个问题的真正原因是因为他拟定了一个食物系统的
16:04
of our food system for the last 50 years.
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逻辑，一个存在于过去的50年中的逻辑。
16:07
Feed grain to herbivores,
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把谷物喂给食草动物，
16:10
pesticides to monocultures, chemicals to soil,
346
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把农药给单品种作物，化学品给土壤，
16:12
chicken to fish,
347
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把鸡给鱼，
16:15
and all along agribusiness
348
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然后各类农业可以
16:18
has simply asked,
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简单的问，
16:20
"If we're feeding more people more cheaply,
350
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“如果我们用更便宜的方法养活更多的人，
16:22
how terrible could that be?"
351
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有什么不对的呢？”
16:25
That's been the motivation,
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那就是一个动机。
16:27
it's been the justification:
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它已经变得合乎情理了。
16:29
it's been the business plan
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它是一个商业计划
16:32
of American agriculture.
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属于美国农业的。
16:34
We should call it what it is:
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我们应该指出它的真面目，
16:36
a business in liquidation,
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一个在清算的生意，
16:39
a business that's quickly eroding
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一个迅速侵蚀的生意
16:42
ecological capital that makes that very production possible.
359
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生态资本使得这种生产成为可能。
16:45
That's not a business,
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那不是一个生意，
16:47
and it isn't agriculture.
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它也不是农业。
16:49
Our breadbasket is threatened today,
362
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今天我们的食品正在受到威胁，
16:52
not because of diminishing supply,
363
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不是因为正在递减的供给，
16:54
but because of diminishing resources.
364
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而是因为正在递减的资源，
16:57
Not by the latest combine and tractor invention,
365
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不是靠最新的嫁接技术与拖拉机的发明，
17:00
but by fertile land;
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而是肥沃的土壤，
17:02
not by pumps, but by fresh water;
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不是靠水泵，而是靠新鲜的水源，
17:05
not by chainsaws, but by forests;
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不是靠电锯，而是靠森林，
17:08
and not by fishing boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.
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不是靠渔船和渔网，而是靠海洋里的鱼。
17:11
Want to feed the world?
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想要喂饱这个世界？
17:13
Let's start by asking: How are we going to feed ourselves?
371
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让我们开始问：我们怎么去喂养我们自己？
17:17
Or better: How can we create conditions
372
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或者更好的，我们怎么去建立一种环境
17:20
that enable every community
373
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它可以让每一个团体
17:23
to feed itself?
374
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去养活自己？
17:25
(Applause)
375
1030000
7000
（掌声）
17:32
To do that,
376
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2000
要做到那样，
17:34
don't look at the agribusiness model for the future.
377
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3000
不要指望未来沿用现在的农业模型。
17:37
It's really old, and it's tired.
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2000
它已经过时了，而且很疲劳。
17:39
It's high on capital, chemistry and machines,
379
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因为它过度依赖资本，化学，和机械，
17:43
and it's never produced anything really good to eat.
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而且它生产不出来真正的好食品。
17:48
Instead, let's look to the ecological model.
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取而代之，让我们看看生态模式。
17:52
That's the one that relies on two billion years
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它存在了20亿年
17:55
of on-the-job experience.
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同时具有实战经验。
17:58
Look to Miguel,
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看看米格尔，
18:00
farmers like Miguel.
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看看像米格尔这样的农民，
18:02
Farms that aren't worlds unto themselves;
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不只属于他们自己的农场，
18:05
farms that restore instead of deplete;
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它自我恢复，而不是消耗，
18:10
farms that farm extensively
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广义的农场
18:12
instead of just intensively;
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取代只是狭义的，
18:14
farmers that are not just producers,
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农民不再只是生产者，
18:17
but experts in relationships.
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而是关系专家，
18:19
Because they're the ones
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因为他们
18:21
that are experts in flavor, too.
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同时也是口味上的专家。
18:24
And if I'm going to be really honest,
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而且如果要我说实话，
18:26
they're a better chef than I'll ever be.
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他们是比我更好的厨师。
18:29
You know, I'm okay with that,
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你们知道，我完全认同这样的事，
18:32
because if that's the future of good food, it's going to be delicious.
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因为如果未来的优质食品是这样的，它们肯定会是非常美味的。
18:35
Thank you.
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谢谢你们。
18:37
(Applause)
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（掌声）♫
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Barber - ChefDan Barber is a chef and a scholar -- relentlessly pursuing the stories and reasons behind the foods we grow and eat.
Why you should listen
Dan Barber is the chef at New York's Blue Hill restaurant, and Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Westchester, where he practices a kind of close-to-the-land cooking married to agriculture and stewardship of the earth. As described on Chez Pim: "Stone Barns is only 45 minutes from Manhattan, but it might as well be a whole different universe. A model of self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility, Stone Barns is a working farm, ranch, and a three-Michelin-star-worthy restaurant." It's a vision of a new kind of food chain.
Barber's philosophy of food focuses on pleasure and thoughtful conservation -- on knowing where the food on your plate comes from and the unseen forces that drive what we eat. He's written on US agricultural policies, asking for a new vision that does not throw the food chain out of balance by subsidizing certain crops at the expense of more appropriate ones.
In 2009, Barber received the James Beard award for America's Outstanding Chef, and was named one of the world's most influential people in Time’s annual "Time 100" list. In 2014 he published The Third Plate: Field Notes on the Future of Food.
Dan Barber | Speaker | TED.com