TEDGlobal 2014
Ricardo Semler: How to run a company with (almost) no rules
李卡多・塞姆勒: 給公司、給學校、給人生的激進智慧
Filmed:
Readability: 2.9
3,246,933 views
如果你的工作不再控制你的生活會怎樣？巴西籍執行長李卡多・塞姆勒實行一套激進的企業民主，重新思考每件事，從董事會到員工如何請假（他的員工不用請假）等等。這是獎勵員工的智慧，提倡工作與生活平衡的願景，並引領我們深入了解工作和生活到底是為了什麼。額外問題：如果學校也像這樣會怎樣？
Ricardo Semler - Organizational changemaker
Two decades after transforming a struggling equipment supplier into a radically democratic and resilient (and successful) company, Ricardo Semler wants organizations to become wise. Full bio
Two decades after transforming a struggling equipment supplier into a radically democratic and resilient (and successful) company, Ricardo Semler wants organizations to become wise. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
On Mondays and Thursdays,
I learn how to die.
I learn how to die.
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每個星期一及星期四，
我學習如何死亡。
我學習如何死亡。
00:17
I call them my terminal days.
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我稱這兩天為我的臨終日。
00:19
My wife Fernanda doesn't like the term,
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我的妻子費南妲不喜歡這個字眼，
00:21
but a lot of people in my family died
of melanoma cancer
of melanoma cancer
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但是我的家族裡
有很多人死於黑色素癌，
有很多人死於黑色素癌，
00:26
and my parents and grandparents had it.
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我的雙親及祖父母也患有此病。
00:29
And I kept thinking, one day I could
be sitting in front of a doctor
be sitting in front of a doctor
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我一直想有一天
我也可能會坐在醫師前面，
我也可能會坐在醫師前面，
00:32
who looks at my exams and says,
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他看著我的檢查報告，然後說：
00:34
"Ricardo, things don't look very good.
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「李卡多，情況不太妙。
00:37
You have six months or a year to live."
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你只能再活六個月到一年。」
00:39
And you start thinking about
what you would do with this time.
what you would do with this time.
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然後你開始思索
要怎麼度過這段時間。
要怎麼度過這段時間。
00:43
And you say, "I'm going to spend
more time with the kids.
more time with the kids.
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你說：「我要花更多時間陪小孩。
00:45
I'm going to visit these places,
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我要遊覽這些那些地方，
00:47
I'm going to go up and down
mountains and places
mountains and places
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我要上山下海，
00:49
and I'm going to do all the things
I didn't do when I had the time."
I didn't do when I had the time."
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我要去做我有時間卻沒做的事。」
00:53
But of course, we all know
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但是我們想也知道，
00:55
these are very bittersweet memories
we're going to have.
we're going to have.
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這些都將是苦樂參半的回憶。
00:58
It's very difficult to do.
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這是很煎熬的事。
00:59
You spend a good part of the time
crying, probably.
crying, probably.
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你大概還會花好大一段時間哭泣。
01:03
So I said, I'm going to do something else.
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所以我說，我要做點不一樣的事。
01:05
Every Monday and Thursday,
I'm going use my terminal days.
I'm going use my terminal days.
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每個星期一及星期四，
我要充分利用我的臨終日。
我要充分利用我的臨終日。
01:10
And I will do, during those days,
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我要在這些日子
01:13
whatever it is I was going to do
if I had received that piece of news.
if I had received that piece of news.
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做所有我想做的事，
好像我真的接到這樣的噩耗一般。
好像我真的接到這樣的噩耗一般。
01:16
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:18
When you think about --
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當你想到──
01:20
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
01:24
when you think about the opposite of work,
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當你想到工作的相反詞，
01:26
we, many times, think it's leisure.
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我們常常認為是休閒。
01:29
And you say, ah, I need
some leisure time, and so forth.
some leisure time, and so forth.
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你說，啊！我需要
一些休閒的時間，諸如此類。
一些休閒的時間，諸如此類。
01:32
But the fact is that,
leisure is a very busy thing.
leisure is a very busy thing.
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但其實休閒是很忙的一件事。
01:35
You go play golf and tennis,
and you meet people,
and you meet people,
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你打高爾夫、網球，
你要見朋友，
你要見朋友，
01:38
and you're going for lunch,
and you're late for the movies.
and you're late for the movies.
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你跟別人約吃午餐，
看電影要遲到了。
看電影要遲到了。
01:41
It's a very crowded thing that we do.
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我們把時間塞得滿滿的。
01:43
The opposite of work is idleness.
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工作的相對是什麼事都不做。
01:47
But very few of us know
what to do with idleness.
what to do with idleness.
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但是很少有人知道要怎麼
度過什麼都不做的時光。
度過什麼都不做的時光。
01:49
When you look at the way
that we distribute our lives in general,
that we distribute our lives in general,
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當你看我們分配生活的方式，
01:54
you realize that in the periods
in which we have a lot of money,
in which we have a lot of money,
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你就會明白
我們很有錢的時候，
我們很有錢的時候，
01:58
we have very little time.
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我們的時間卻很少。
02:00
And then when we finally have time,
we have neither the money nor the health.
we have neither the money nor the health.
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當我們終於有時間了，
卻沒有錢或健康。
卻沒有錢或健康。
02:05
So we started thinking about that
as a company for the last 30 years.
as a company for the last 30 years.
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所以過去 30 年我們
以公司的角度在思考這件事。
以公司的角度在思考這件事。
02:10
This is a complicated company
with thousands of employees,
with thousands of employees,
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這是個很複雜的公司，
有數千名員工，
有數千名員工，
02:13
hundreds of millions
of dollars of business
of dollars of business
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億萬美元的業務，
02:15
that makes rocket fuel propellent systems,
runs 4,000 ATMs in Brazil,
runs 4,000 ATMs in Brazil,
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製造火箭推進劑系統，
在巴西營運四千台自動櫃員機，
在巴西營運四千台自動櫃員機，
02:22
does income tax preparation
for dozens of thousands.
for dozens of thousands.
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幫成千上萬人報稅。
02:25
So this is not a simple business.
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所以這不是個簡單的公司。
02:29
We looked at it and we said,
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我們看看它然後說，
02:31
let's devolve to these people,
let's give these people a company
let's give these people a company
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讓我們把重心轉向這些人，
讓我們給這些人一間公司，
讓我們給這些人一間公司，
02:36
where we take away
all the boarding school aspects
all the boarding school aspects
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把所有寄宿學校的規矩都拿掉，
02:38
of, this is when you arrive,
this is how you dress,
this is how you dress,
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像是你該幾點到、你該怎麼穿、
02:41
this is how you go to meetings,
this is what you say,
this is what you say,
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你該怎麼開會、你該說什麼、
02:43
this is what you don't say,
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你不該說什麼，
02:44
and let's see what's left.
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然後來看會是怎樣的情況。
02:46
So we started this about 30 years ago,
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我們大約在 30 年前
開始做這件事，
開始做這件事，
02:48
and we started dealing
with this very issue.
with this very issue.
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我們開始面對這項問題。
02:50
And so we said, look, the retirement,
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所以我們說，你看，退休，
02:52
the whole issue of how
we distribute our graph of life.
we distribute our graph of life.
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我們要如何分配生活這項議題。
02:56
Instead of going mountain climbing
when you're 82,
when you're 82,
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與其在你 82 歲時才去爬山，
02:59
why don't you do it next week?
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你為什麼不下星期就去呢？
03:01
And we'll do it like this,
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我們要這樣做，
03:02
we'll sell you back your Wednesdays
for 10 percent of your salary.
for 10 percent of your salary.
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我們把你的星期三賣回給你，
用你 10% 的薪水來買。
用你 10% 的薪水來買。
03:07
So now, if you were going to be
a violinist, which you probably weren't,
a violinist, which you probably weren't,
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所以現在，
假設你想當小提琴家，
假設你想當小提琴家，
你大概不想啦，
你就在星期三做這件事。
你就在星期三做這件事。
03:11
you go and do this on Wednesday.
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03:13
And what we found --
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我們發現──
03:14
we thought, these are the older people
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我們以為只有老一點的人
03:17
who are going to be really interested
in this program.
in this program.
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才會真的對這個計畫有興趣。
03:20
And the average age
of the first people who adhered
of the first people who adhered
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然而第一批來參與這個計畫的人
03:22
were 29, of course.
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平均年齡為 29 歲，想當然爾！
03:23
And so we started looking,
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所以我們又開始看，
03:25
and we said, we have to do things
in a different way.
in a different way.
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然後我們說，
我們得用不同的方法做事。
我們得用不同的方法做事。
03:27
So we started saying things like,
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所以我們開始說像是
03:29
why do we want to know
what time you came to work,
what time you came to work,
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為什麼我們想知道你幾點來上班，
03:31
what time you left, etc.?
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幾點下班等等的問題？
03:33
Can't we exchange this for a contract
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難道我們不能以此交換一項契約，
03:35
for buying something from you,
some kind of work?
some kind of work?
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從你身上買些東西，某些工作？
03:39
Why are we building these headquarters?
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為什麼我們要蓋這些總部大樓？
03:41
Is it not an ego issue
that we want to look solid
that we want to look solid
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難道這不是一種自我意識，
我們想要看起來很穩固牢靠，
我們想要看起來很穩固牢靠，
03:43
and big and important?
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又大又重要？
03:45
But we're dragging you two hours
across town because of it?
across town because of it?
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但是我們要你在路上
塞兩個小時就為了這個？
塞兩個小時就為了這個？
03:49
So we started asking questions one by one.
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所以我們開始問問題，
一個接著一個問。
一個接著一個問。
03:52
We'd say it like this:
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我們問像這樣的問題：
03:53
One: How do we find people?
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一、我們怎麼找人？
03:56
We'd go out and try
and recruit people and we'd say,
and recruit people and we'd say,
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我們就去外面試了一下，
招人的時候我們說，
招人的時候我們說，
03:59
look, when you come to us,
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聽好，如果你到我們這邊來，
04:00
we're not going to have
two or three interviews
two or three interviews
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我們不會安排二三回面試，
04:03
and then you're going to be
married to us for life.
married to us for life.
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然後要你一輩子嫁給我們。
04:05
That's not how we do
the rest of our lives.
the rest of our lives.
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那不是我們度過餘生的方式。
04:07
So, come have your interviews.
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所以，就來面試吧。
04:09
Anyone who's interested
in interviewing, you will show up.
in interviewing, you will show up.
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任何有興趣面試的人都可以來。
04:13
And then we'll see what happens
out of the intuition that rises from that,
out of the intuition that rises from that,
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然後我們要看這種
憑直覺的面試會有什麼結果，
憑直覺的面試會有什麼結果，
04:17
instead of just filling out the little
items of whether you're the right person.
items of whether you're the right person.
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而不是填寫你是否為
正確人選的那些小項目。
正確人選的那些小項目。
04:21
And then, come back.
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然後，再回來看看。
04:23
Spend an afternoon, spend a whole day,
talk to anybody you want.
talk to anybody you want.
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來這裡過一個下午、過一天，
去跟你想談的人對話。
去跟你想談的人對話。
04:26
Make sure we are the bride
you thought we were
you thought we were
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確定我們的確是
你心目中合適的新娘，
你心目中合適的新娘，
04:29
and not all the bullshit
we put into our own ads.
we put into our own ads.
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而不是徵婚廣告上
誇張不實的鬼扯。
誇張不實的鬼扯。
04:32
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:34
Slowly we went to a process
where we'd say things like,
where we'd say things like,
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慢慢地我們找到一種方式，
我們會這樣說，
我們會這樣說，
04:38
we don't want anyone to be
a leader in the company
a leader in the company
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我們不要任何人
在這間公司裡當領導人，
在這間公司裡當領導人，
04:41
if they haven't been
interviewed and approved
interviewed and approved
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如果他們還沒被他們未來的下屬
04:43
by their future subordinates.
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面試及認可，就不可以當。
04:46
Every six months, everyone gets
evaluated, anonymously, as a leader.
evaluated, anonymously, as a leader.
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每六個月，每位領導人
都要接受無記名評估。
都要接受無記名評估。
04:51
And this determines whether they should
continue in that leadership position,
continue in that leadership position,
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這決定他們是否能繼續
他們領導階層的位置，
他們領導階層的位置，
04:55
which is many times
situational, as you know.
situational, as you know.
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這個位置常常很情境式，你知道的。
04:58
And so if they don't have 70, 80 percent
of a grade, they don't stay,
of a grade, they don't stay,
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所以如果他們不能拿個七八十分，
他們就不能待下去。
他們就不能待下去。
05:04
which is probably the reason why
I haven't been CEO for more than 10 years.
I haven't been CEO for more than 10 years.
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這大概就是為什麼我已經
超過十年沒當執行長的原因。
超過十年沒當執行長的原因。
05:08
And over time, we started asking
other questions.
other questions.
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隨著時間推移，
我們開始問其他問題。
我們開始問其他問題。
05:12
We said things like,
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我們問問題像是，
05:14
why can't people set their own salaries?
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為什麼大家不能自訂薪水？
05:17
What do they need to know?
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他們需要知道什麼？
05:19
There's only three things
you need to know:
you need to know:
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你只需要知道三件事：
05:21
how much people make inside the company,
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公司內的人薪資多少？
05:23
how much people make somewhere
else in a similar business
else in a similar business
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在業界薪資行情又是多少？
05:26
and how much we make in general
to see whether we can afford it.
to see whether we can afford it.
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公司通常要賺多少才付的起？
05:29
So let's give people these three
pieces of information.
pieces of information.
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所以我們給大家這三項資料。
05:32
So we started having, in the cafeteria,
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後來我們開始在員工餐廳
05:34
a computer where you could go in
and you could ask
and you could ask
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放一台電腦，你可以進去問
05:36
what someone spent,
how much someone makes,
how much someone makes,
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某人花多少、某人賺多少、
05:38
what they make in benefits,
what the company makes,
what the company makes,
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他們有什麼福利、公司又賺多少、
05:41
what the margins are, and so forth.
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利潤是多少等等。
05:43
And this is 25 years ago.
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這還是 25 年前。
05:47
As this information started
coming to people,
coming to people,
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當這樣的情報開始流傳出去，
05:50
we said things like, we don't want
to see your expense report,
to see your expense report,
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我們會說，
我們不想知道你的開支表，
我們不想知道你的開支表，
05:53
we don't want to know how many
holidays you're taking,
holidays you're taking,
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我們不想知道你要放多少天假，
05:55
we don't want to know where you work.
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我們不想知道你在哪裡辦公。
05:57
We had, at one point,
14 different offices around town,
14 different offices around town,
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我們曾經一度在城裡
14 個不同的地方設辦公室，
14 個不同的地方設辦公室，
06:00
and we'd say, go to the one
that's closest to your house,
that's closest to your house,
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我們說，去離你家最近的那個上班，
06:04
to the customer that
you're going to visit today.
you're going to visit today.
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去你今天要去拜訪的客戶那邊。
06:06
Don't tell us where you are.
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不要告訴我們你在那。
06:08
And more, even when we had
thousands of people, 5,000 people,
thousands of people, 5,000 people,
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更扯的是，即使在我們有
數千員工，五千名員工的時代，
數千員工，五千名員工的時代，
06:12
we had two people in the H.R. department,
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我們只有兩個人在人資部門，
06:16
and thankfully one of them has retired.
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而且謝天謝地其中一個已經退休了。
06:18
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
06:20
And so, the question we were asking was,
how can we be taking care of people?
how can we be taking care of people?
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所以，我們那時問的問題是，
我們要怎麼照顧員工？
我們要怎麼照顧員工？
06:24
People are the only thing we have.
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員工是我們唯一擁有的。
06:26
We can't have a department that runs
after people and looks after people.
after people and looks after people.
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我們不可能搞一個部門
天天追著員工跑、盯著員工看。
天天追著員工跑、盯著員工看。
06:29
So as we started finding that this worked,
and we'd say, we're looking for --
and we'd say, we're looking for --
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所以當我們開始發現這方法有用，
我們就說我們要找──
我們就說我們要找──
06:35
and this is, I think,
the main thing I was looking for
the main thing I was looking for
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我想這也是我在臨終日
06:37
in the terminal days and in the company,
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及在這間公司所尋找的主要東西──
06:39
which is, how do you set up for wisdom?
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就是，你要如何建立智慧？
06:43
We've come from an age of revolution,
industrial revolution,
industrial revolution,
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我們是革命時代的產物，工業革命、
06:47
an age of information,
an age of knowledge,
an age of knowledge,
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資訊時代、知識時代，
06:50
but we're not any closer
to the age of wisdom.
to the age of wisdom.
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卻離智慧時代還很遠。
06:53
How we design, how do we organize,
for more wisdom?
for more wisdom?
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我們如何設計，如何組織
以得到更多智慧？
以得到更多智慧？
06:56
So for example, many times,
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舉個例子，有好多次，
06:58
what's the smartest or the intelligent
decision doesn't jive.
decision doesn't jive.
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什麼是最聰明最明智，
又不會被笑的決定？
又不會被笑的決定？
07:02
So we'd say things like,
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所以我們會說像這樣的事，
07:04
let's agree that you're going to sell
57 widgets per week.
57 widgets per week.
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就說你同意一星期要賣
57 個界面小工具好了。
57 個界面小工具好了。
07:08
If you sell them by Wednesday,
please go to the beach.
please go to the beach.
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如果你在星期三前賣完，
請去海邊玩。
請去海邊玩。
07:12
Don't create a problem for us,
for manufacturing, for application,
for manufacturing, for application,
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不要給我們、給製造商、
給小程式製造問題，
給小程式製造問題，
07:16
then we have to buy new companies,
we have to buy our competitors,
we have to buy our competitors,
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不然我們就得買新的公司，
我們就得買下對手，
我們就得買下對手，
07:19
we have to do all kinds of things
because you sold too many widgets.
because you sold too many widgets.
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我們要做一大堆事，
因為你賣了太多界面小工具。
因為你賣了太多界面小工具。
07:22
So go to the beach
and start again on Monday.
and start again on Monday.
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所以就去海邊玩吧，
星期一再重新開始。
星期一再重新開始。
07:24
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑聲）（掌聲）
07:27
So the process is looking for wisdom.
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所以這整個過程是想尋求智慧。
07:30
And in the process, of course,
we wanted people to know everything,
we wanted people to know everything,
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當然在過程中，
我們要大家知道每件事，
我們要大家知道每件事，
07:34
and we wanted to be truly democratic
about the way we ran things.
about the way we ran things.
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我們想在我們經營方法上
有真正的民主。
有真正的民主。
07:37
So our board had two seats open
with the same voting rights,
with the same voting rights,
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所以我們的董事會有兩個空的席次，
跟其他董事有同等的投票權，
跟其他董事有同等的投票權，
07:43
for the first two people who showed up.
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要給最先來公司上班的兩個人。
07:45
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
07:46
And so we had cleaning ladies voting
on a board meeting,
on a board meeting,
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所以我們有公司清潔婦
在董事會裡，
在董事會裡，
07:52
which had a lot of other very important
people in suits and ties.
people in suits and ties.
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在這個其他重要人物
都西裝筆挺的會議裡投票。
都西裝筆挺的會議裡投票。
07:55
And the fact is that they kept us honest.
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事實是他們讓我們誠實。
07:58
This process, as we started looking
at the people who came to us,
at the people who came to us,
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這個過程，就在我們開始
看著大家爭相進入我們公司，
看著大家爭相進入我們公司，
08:02
we'd say, now wait a second,
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我們說，等一下，
08:04
people come to us and they say,
where am I supposed to sit?
where am I supposed to sit?
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他們進了公司，他們問，
我應該坐哪裡？
我應該坐哪裡？
08:07
How am I supposed to work?
Where am I going to be in 5 years' time?
Where am I going to be in 5 years' time?
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我要怎麼開始？
五年後我在哪裡？
五年後我在哪裡？
08:10
And we looked at that and we said,
we have to start much earlier.
we have to start much earlier.
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我們看著這情況我們說，
我們得早點開始。
我們得早點開始。
08:13
Where do we start?
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我們從哪裡開始？
08:14
We said, oh, kindergarten
seems like a good place.
seems like a good place.
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我們說，喔，
從幼兒園開始好像不錯。
從幼兒園開始好像不錯。
08:16
So we set up a foundation, which now has,
for 11 years, three schools,
for 11 years, three schools,
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所以我們設立了一個基金會，
11 年來已經有三所學校，
11 年來已經有三所學校，
08:21
where we started asking
the same questions,
the same questions,
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我們在這些學校問同樣的問題，
08:23
how do you redesign school for wisdom?
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我們要怎麼為智慧重新設計學校？
08:26
It is one thing to say,
we need to recycle the teachers,
we need to recycle the teachers,
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一方面我們需要再利用老師，
08:29
we need the directors to do more.
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我們需要主管做更多事。
08:31
But the fact is that what we do
with education is entirely obsolete.
with education is entirely obsolete.
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但事實是我們辦教育的方式
早已完全過時。
早已完全過時。
08:37
The teacher's role is entirely obsolete.
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老師的角色完全過時。
08:39
Going from a math class, to biology,
to 14th-century France is very silly.
to 14th-century France is very silly.
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從數學課教到生物課，
教到 14 世紀法國史真的很笨。
教到 14 世紀法國史真的很笨。
08:45
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
08:50
So we started thinking,
what could it look like?
what could it look like?
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所以我們開始思考，
那到底應該是什麼樣子？
那到底應該是什麼樣子？
08:52
And we put together people,
including people who like education,
including people who like education,
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我們把大家聚在一起，
包括喜歡教育的人，
包括喜歡教育的人，
08:56
people like Paulo Freire,
and two ministers of education in Brazil
and two ministers of education in Brazil
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像保羅．弗雷勒，
及巴西兩位教育部長，
及巴西兩位教育部長，
09:01
and we said, if we were to design
a school from scratch,
a school from scratch,
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我們說，如果我們要重頭設計學校，
09:04
what would it look like?
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會是甚麼樣子？
09:06
And so we created this school,
which is called Lumiar,
which is called Lumiar,
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所以我們設計了這所學校，
稱為慧光，
稱為慧光，
09:09
and Lumiar, one of them
is a public school,
is a public school,
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慧光有一間是公立學校。
09:11
and Lumiar says the following:
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慧光的宗旨是：
09:13
Let's divide this role
of the teacher into two.
of the teacher into two.
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讓我們把老師的角色一分為二。
09:17
One guy, we'll call a tutor.
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一個我們稱之為導師。
09:20
A tutor, in the old sense of the Greek
"paideia": Look after the kid.
"paideia": Look after the kid.
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導師在古希臘字義為：
照顧孩子。
照顧孩子。
09:25
What's happening at home,
what's their moment in life, etc..
what's their moment in life, etc..
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問問孩子家裡發生什麼事、
照顧他們生命中重要的時刻…等等。
照顧他們生命中重要的時刻…等等。
09:29
But please don't teach,
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但是請不要教書，
09:30
because the little you know compared
to Google, we don't want to know.
to Google, we don't want to know.
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因為你的實力有多接近 Google 搜尋，
我們不想知道。
我們不想知道。
09:33
Keep that to yourself.
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你自己藏拙就好。
09:34
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:36
Now, we'll bring in people
who have two things:
who have two things:
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我們要請有兩種特質的人：
09:40
passion and expertise, and it could be
their profession or not.
their profession or not.
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熱情及專長，是不是本科都行。
09:44
And we use the senior citizens,
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我們也請耆老，
09:46
who are 25 percent of the population
with wisdom that nobody wants anymore.
with wisdom that nobody wants anymore.
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耆老佔了人口數的 25%，
擁有沒人要的智慧。
擁有沒人要的智慧。
09:50
So we bring them to school and we say,
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所以我們請他們到學校，我們說，
09:53
teach these kids whatever
you really believe in.
you really believe in.
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教這些孩子你由衷相信的東西。
09:57
So we have violinists teaching math.
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所以我們有小提琴家教數學。
09:59
We have all kinds of things where we say,
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我們有各式各樣的東西，我們說
10:02
don't worry about
the course material anymore.
the course material anymore.
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不要再擔心教材。
10:05
We have approximately 10 great threads
that go from 2 to 17.
that go from 2 to 17.
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我們有大約十種很棒的主題
給 2 歲到 17 歲的孩子上。
給 2 歲到 17 歲的孩子上。
10:10
Things like, how do we measure
ourselves as humans?
ourselves as humans?
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像是，身為人類，
我們怎麼測量自己？
我們怎麼測量自己？
10:14
So there's a place for math and physics
and all that there.
and all that there.
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所以這結合了數學與物理
還有其他東西。
還有其他東西。
10:18
How do we express ourselves?
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我們怎麼表達自己？
10:20
So there's a place
for music and literature, etc.,
for music and literature, etc.,
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所以這結合了音樂與文學…等等，
10:22
but also for grammar.
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同時還有文法。
10:24
And then we have things
that everyone has forgotten,
that everyone has forgotten,
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我們還教每個人都已經忘記，
10:27
which are probably the most
important things in life.
important things in life.
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卻可能是人生最重要的東西。
10:29
The very important things in life,
we know nothing about.
we know nothing about.
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人生中非常重要的東西，
我們卻一無所知。
我們卻一無所知。
10:33
We know nothing about love,
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我們對愛一無所知、
10:35
we know nothing about death,
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我們對死一無所知、
10:37
we know nothing about why we're here.
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我們對我們為什麼存在一無所知。
10:39
So we need a thread in school that
talks about everything we don't know.
talks about everything we don't know.
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所以我們在學校要教
所有我們不知道的事情這個主題。
所有我們不知道的事情這個主題。
10:44
So that's a big part of what we do.
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這佔了我們的教學很大一部分。
10:46
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
10:51
So over the years, we started going
into other things.
into other things.
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這幾年，我們開始探索其他東西。
10:54
We'd say, why do we have to scold the kids
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我們說，為什麼我們要責罵孩子，
10:57
and say, sit down and come here
and do that, and so forth.
and do that, and so forth.
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要說，坐下、到這裡來、
做這個做那個，等等。
做這個做那個，等等。
10:59
We said, let's get the kids to do
something we call a circle,
something we call a circle,
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我們說，讓孩子來做
我們稱為「循環」的課，
我們稱為「循環」的課，
11:03
which meets once a week.
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一週上一次。
11:04
And we'd say, you put the rules together
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我們說，
你們把規則通通看一下，
你們把規則通通看一下，
11:06
and then you decide
what you want to do with it.
what you want to do with it.
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然後決定你要怎麼做。
11:09
So can you all hit yourself on the head?
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所以你們都想撞頭嗎？
11:11
Sure, for a week, try.
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好啊！做一個星期，試試看。
11:13
They came up with the very same
rules that we had,
rules that we had,
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結果他們得出
跟我們一模一樣的規則，
跟我們一模一樣的規則，
11:17
except they're theirs.
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只是現在這些規則是他們定的了。
11:18
And then, they have the power,
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這樣，他們就有權限，
11:21
which means, they can and do
suspend and expel kids
suspend and expel kids
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也就是說，他們的確可以
讓孩子停學並趕出學校，
讓孩子停學並趕出學校，
11:26
so that we're not playing school,
they really decide.
they really decide.
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我們不是在玩扮學校的遊戲，
他們真的能做決定。
他們真的能做決定。
11:31
And then, in this same vein,
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然後，本著同樣的精神，
11:34
we keep a digital mosaic,
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我們還有所謂數位鑲嵌，
11:36
because this is not constructivist
or Montessori or something.
or Montessori or something.
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因為這不是建構式教學，
也不是蒙特梭利或什麼，
也不是蒙特梭利或什麼，
11:40
It's something where we keep
the Brazilian curriculum
the Brazilian curriculum
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這是我們把巴西的課程，
11:44
with 600 tiles of a mosaic,
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六百種不同的課程鑲嵌在一起，
11:46
which we want to expose these kids
to by the time they're 17.
to by the time they're 17.
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讓孩子在 17 歲前能接觸到。
11:49
And follow this all the time
and we know how they're doing
and we know how they're doing
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一路都這麼做，
我們就會知道他們的表現，
我們就會知道他們的表現，
11:52
and we say, you're not interested
in this now, let's wait a year.
in this now, let's wait a year.
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我們會說，你現在
對這個沒興趣，再等一年。
對這個沒興趣，再等一年。
11:56
And the kids are in groups
that don't have an age category,
that don't have an age category,
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這些孩子分成幾組，
不是按年齡分，
不是按年齡分，
12:01
so the six-year-old kid
who is ready for that with an 11-year-old,
who is ready for that with an 11-year-old,
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所以程度夠的六歲孩子
可以與十一歲的孩子一起上課。
可以與十一歲的孩子一起上課。
12:04
that eliminates all of the gangs
and the groups
and the groups
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這樣可以排除成群結黨的小團體，
12:07
and this stuff that we have
in the schools, in general.
in the schools, in general.
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這些現象在學校還蠻常見。
12:11
And they have a zero
to 100 percent grading,
to 100 percent grading,
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而且他們還有
0 到 100 分的評分法，
0 到 100 分的評分法，
12:13
which they do themselves with an app
every couple of hours.
every couple of hours.
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他們每隔幾個小時
就用小程式自己評分。
就用小程式自己評分。
12:17
Until we know they're 37 percent of the
way we'd like them to be on this issue,
way we'd like them to be on this issue,
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我們要他們繼續上同樣的課程，
直到他們拿到 37 分為止。
直到他們拿到 37 分為止。
12:21
so that we can send them out in the world
with them knowing enough about it.
with them knowing enough about it.
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所以出社會時他們起碼在
這些議題上知道點什麼。
這些議題上知道點什麼。
12:26
And so the courses are World Cup Soccer,
or building a bicycle.
or building a bicycle.
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所以這些課程包括
世界盃足球，或造腳踏車。
世界盃足球，或造腳踏車。
12:31
And people will sign up for
a 45-day course on building a bicycle.
a 45-day course on building a bicycle.
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大家都來登記
上一期 45 天的造腳踏車課。
上一期 45 天的造腳踏車課。
12:36
Now, try to build a bicycle without
knowing that pi is 3.1416.
knowing that pi is 3.1416.
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那，試試看在不知道圓周率為
3.1416 的情況下造一輛腳踏車。
3.1416 的情況下造一輛腳踏車。
12:40
You can't.
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不可能。
12:42
And try, any one of you,
using 3.1416 for something.
using 3.1416 for something.
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你們任何人試試
用 3.1416 做點什麼。
用 3.1416 做點什麼。
12:47
You don't know anymore.
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你不知道能做什麼了吧。
12:48
So this is lost and that's what
we try to do there,
we try to do there,
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所以這是損失，
這也就是為什麼我們試著做這個，
這也就是為什麼我們試著做這個，
12:51
which is looking
for wisdom in that school.
for wisdom in that school.
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就是在那所學校裡尋找智慧。
12:53
And that brings us back to this graph
and this distribution of our life.
and this distribution of our life.
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而那也讓我們回過頭來看看
這張生命的分配圖。
這張生命的分配圖。
12:59
I accumulated a lot of money
when I think about it.
when I think about it.
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當我想到的時候我已經賺了很多錢。
13:01
When you think and you say,
now is the time to give back --
now is the time to give back --
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你想一想然後你說，
現在是回饋的時候了，
現在是回饋的時候了，
13:05
well, if you're giving back,
you took too much.
you took too much.
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如果你現在要回饋，
那是你之前拿太多了。
那是你之前拿太多了。
13:08
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑聲）（掌聲）
13:16
I keep thinking of Warren Buffet
waking up one day
waking up one day
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我一直想到
華倫·巴菲特有一天醒來
華倫·巴菲特有一天醒來
13:19
and finding out he has 30 billion dollars
more than he thought he had.
more than he thought he had.
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發現他的錢比他想的
還多三百億美金。
還多三百億美金。
13:22
And he looks and he says,
what am I going to do with this?
what am I going to do with this?
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他看看然後說，
我要拿這些錢做什麼？
我要拿這些錢做什麼？
13:25
And he says, I'll give it to someone
who really needs this.
who really needs this.
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然後他說，我要送給真正需要的人。
13:28
I'll give it to Bill Gates. (Laughter)
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我要給比爾·蓋茲。（笑聲）
13:32
And my guy, who's my financial
advisor in New York,
advisor in New York,
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我在紐約的理財專員
13:35
he says, look, you're a silly guy
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他說，聽好，你是個笨蛋，
13:37
because you would have 4.1 times
more money today
more money today
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因為你今天大可擁有
比現在還多 4.1 倍的錢，
比現在還多 4.1 倍的錢，
13:40
if you had made money with money
instead of sharing as you go.
instead of sharing as you go.
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如果一路走來你願意錢滾錢，
而不是分給別人。
而不是分給別人。
13:44
But I like sharing as you go better.
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但是我喜歡分給別人，
因為這樣走的更好。
因為這樣走的更好。
13:46
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
13:49
I taught MBAs at MIT for a time
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我曾在麻省理工
教過工商管理一段時間，
教過工商管理一段時間，
13:54
and I ended up, one day,
at the Mount Auburn Cemetery.
at the Mount Auburn Cemetery.
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有一天，我發現我在奧本山墓園。
13:56
It is a beautiful cemetery in Cambridge.
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那是座美麗的墓園，在劍橋。
13:58
And I was walking around.
It was my birthday and I was thinking.
It was my birthday and I was thinking.
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我在那裡四處走走，
那天是我的生日，我在想事情。
那天是我的生日，我在想事情。
14:01
And the first time around,
I saw these tombstones
I saw these tombstones
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我第一次繞的時候
看到這些墓碑，
看到這些墓碑，
14:04
and these wonderful people
who'd done great things
who'd done great things
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這些很棒的人，做了很多好事，
14:06
and I thought, what do I want
to be remembered for?
to be remembered for?
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我就想，我要人家懷念我什麼？
14:10
And I did another stroll around,
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我又走了一圈；
14:12
and the second time,
another question came to me,
another question came to me,
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第二次，另一個問題跑出來，
14:14
which did me better, which was,
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這次問的比較好了，就是
14:17
why do I want to be remembered at all?
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到底為什麼我想被人懷念？
14:20
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
14:22
And that, I think,
took me different places.
took me different places.
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我想就是那個想法，
帶我到了不同的境界。
帶我到了不同的境界。
14:25
When I was 50, my wife Fernanda and I
sat for a whole afternoon,
sat for a whole afternoon,
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我 50 歲時，我的太太
費南妲和我坐了一整個下午，
費南妲和我坐了一整個下午，
14:29
we had a big pit with fire,
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我們搭了個大營火，
14:31
and I threw everything I had ever
done into that fire.
done into that fire.
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我把過去所有的成就
都丟進火堆裡。
都丟進火堆裡。
14:35
This is a book in 38 languages,
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翻成 38 種語言的書，
14:37
hundreds and hundreds of articles
and DVDs, everything there was.
and DVDs, everything there was.
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865471
3547
成千上萬的文章和 DVD，
每樣東西都丟進去。
每樣東西都丟進去。
14:41
And that did two things.
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869018
1420
這個舉動有兩個意義。
14:42
One, it freed our five kids
from following in our steps, our shadow --
from following in our steps, our shadow --
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4925
一、這解放了我的五個孩子，
不用追隨我們的腳步，
不用追隨我們的腳步，
活在我們的陰影下，
他們不知道我做過什麼。
他們不知道我做過什麼。
14:47
They don't know what I do.
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1656
14:49
(Laughter)
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1224
（笑聲）
14:50
Which is good.
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1309
這很好。
14:51
And I'm not going to take them somewhere
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1925
我不想帶他們到某處，
14:53
and say, one day
all of this will be yours.
all of this will be yours.
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2394
然後說，有一天，
這一切都是你們的。
這一切都是你們的。
14:55
(Laughter)
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1557
（笑聲）
14:57
The five kids know nothing, which is good.
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3532
這五個孩子什麼都不知道，這很好。
15:00
And the second thing is,
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第二個意義是，
15:02
I freed myself from this anchor
of past achievement or whatever.
of past achievement or whatever.
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890641
4698
我自己也從過去的成就
或管它是什麼解放。
或管它是什麼解放。
15:07
I'm free to start something new every time
and to decide things from scratch
and to decide things from scratch
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895339
4498
我每次都可以隨心所欲重新開始，
15:11
in part of those terminal days.
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899837
2121
在臨終日隨心所欲決定從頭開始。
15:13
And some people would say,
301
901958
1417
有些人可能會說，
15:15
oh, so now you have this time,
these terminal days,
these terminal days,
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2538
喔，所以現在你有這段時間，
這些臨終日，
這些臨終日，
15:17
and so you go out and do everything.
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1858
所以你能去做每一件事。
15:19
No, we've been to the beaches,
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2322
不，我們已經去過海邊，
15:22
so we've been to Samoa and Maldives
and Mozambique,
and Mozambique,
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910093
2562
所以我們已經去過薩摩亞、
馬爾地夫、莫三比克。
馬爾地夫、莫三比克。
15:24
so that's done.
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912655
1766
這件事已經完成。
15:26
I've climbed mountains in the Himalayas.
307
914421
2109
我已經爬過喜馬拉雅山脈。
15:28
I've gone down 60 meters to see
hammerhead sharks.
hammerhead sharks.
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916530
3871
我已經潛水 60 公尺看過雙髻鯊。
15:32
I've spent 59 days on the back of a camel
from Chad to Timbuktu.
from Chad to Timbuktu.
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4551
我也在駱駝背上度過 59 天，
從查德走到廷巴克圖。
從查德走到廷巴克圖。
15:36
I've gone to the magnetic
North Pole on a dog sled.
North Pole on a dog sled.
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3991
我也坐過狗拉雪橇到磁北極。
15:40
So, we've been busy.
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928943
1776
所以，我們很忙。
15:42
It's what I'd like to call
my empty bucket list.
my empty bucket list.
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6003
我想叫這個為「掛點前無事可做」。
15:48
(Laughter)
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2979
（笑聲）
15:51
And with this rationale,
I look at these days and I think,
I look at these days and I think,
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939701
3557
帶著這個意念，
我看著我的臨終日然後想，
我看著我的臨終日然後想，
15:55
I'm not retired.
I don't feel retired at all.
I don't feel retired at all.
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943258
2519
我還沒退休，我也不想退休。
15:57
And so I'm writing a new book.
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945777
2141
所以我要寫本新書。
15:59
We started three new companies
in the last two years.
in the last two years.
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947918
3813
我們在過去兩年成立了三家新公司。
16:03
I'm now working on getting this
school system for free out into the world,
school system for free out into the world,
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951731
5203
我現在要致力於這個學校系統，
並免費讓全世界學習。
並免費讓全世界學習。
16:08
and I've found, very interestingly enough,
that nobody wants it for free.
that nobody wants it for free.
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956934
3429
但我發現，夠有意思了，
沒有人想要免費的。
沒有人想要免費的。
16:12
And so I've been trying for 10 years
320
960387
1938
所以我已經試了 10 年，
16:14
to get the public system
to take over this school rationale,
to take over this school rationale,
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962325
3425
想讓公立學校系統能接管
這個學校的基本概念，
這個學校的基本概念，
16:17
much as the public schools we have,
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965750
2395
就像我們自己的公立學校，
16:20
which has instead of 43 out of 100,
as their rating, as their grades,
as their rating, as their grades,
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968145
4697
他們的評分，
他們的成績只有 43 分，
他們的成績只有 43 分，
16:24
has 91 out of 100.
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972842
2689
我們卻得到 91 分。
16:27
But for free, nobody wants it.
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975531
2433
但是沒有人要免費的東西。
16:29
So maybe we'll start charging for it
and then it will go somewhere.
and then it will go somewhere.
326
977964
3194
所以我們大概要開始收費，
這個概念才會傳開來。
這個概念才會傳開來。
16:33
But getting this out is one
of the things we want to do.
of the things we want to do.
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981158
3781
但想讓這個觀念傳播出去
是我們很想做的事。
是我們很想做的事。
16:36
And I think what this leaves us
as a message for all of you,
as a message for all of you,
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984939
3317
我想這也留給在座各位一個課題，
16:40
I think is a little bit like this:
329
988256
1752
我想有點像這樣：
16:42
We've all learned
how to go on Sunday night
how to go on Sunday night
330
990008
3157
我們都學到怎麼在星期天晚上
16:45
to email and work from home.
331
993165
2417
在家裡看電郵工作。
16:47
But very few of us have learned
332
995582
1710
但很少有人學到
16:49
how to go to the movies
on Monday afternoon.
on Monday afternoon.
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997292
3130
怎麼在星期一下午去看電影。
16:52
And if we're looking for wisdom,
we need to learn to do that as well.
we need to learn to do that as well.
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1000422
4101
如果我們要尋求智慧，
我們也必須知道怎麼做那個。
我們也必須知道怎麼做那個。
16:56
And so, what we've done all
of these years is very simple,
of these years is very simple,
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1004523
3650
所以，我們這幾年做的
其實非常簡單，
其實非常簡單，
17:00
is use the little tool,
which is ask three whys in a row.
which is ask three whys in a row.
336
1008173
3172
就是用個小工具，
連續問三次為什麼。
連續問三次為什麼。
17:03
Because the first why
you always have a good answer for.
you always have a good answer for.
337
1011345
2761
因為第一個為什麼
你總是有個很好的答案。
你總是有個很好的答案。
17:06
The second why,
it starts getting difficult.
it starts getting difficult.
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1014106
2415
第二個為什麼就開始有點難了。
17:08
By the third why, you don't really know
why you're doing what you're doing.
why you're doing what you're doing.
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1016521
3939
到了第三個為什麼，
你已經搞不清楚到底所做為何了。
你已經搞不清楚到底所做為何了。
17:12
What I want to leave you with is the seed
and the thought that maybe if you do this,
and the thought that maybe if you do this,
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1020460
6228
我想留給大家的是種子也是想法，
也許如果你做了這個，
也許如果你做了這個，
17:18
you will come to the question, what for?
341
1026688
2756
你也會有這樣的疑問，為什麼？
17:21
What am I doing this for?
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1029444
1502
我為什麼要做這件事？
17:22
And hopefully, as a result of that,
and over time,
and over time,
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1030946
2881
但願，因為那個的結果，
隨著時間，
隨著時間，
17:25
I hope that with this,
and that's what I'm wishing you,
and that's what I'm wishing you,
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1033827
3133
我希望，藉著這件事，
我祝福你們
我祝福你們
17:28
you'll have a much wiser future.
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1036960
2703
都有更明智的未來。
17:31
Thank you very much.
346
1039663
1785
謝謝。
17:33
(Applause)
347
1041448
7539
（掌聲）
17:45
Chris Anderson: So Ricardo,
you're kind of crazy.
you're kind of crazy.
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5087
克里斯·安德森：
所以李卡多，你有點怪吧？
所以李卡多，你有點怪吧？
17:51
(Laughter)
349
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1825
（笑聲）
17:52
To many people, this seems crazy.
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1060869
3180
對許多人而言，這似乎很怪。
17:56
And yet so deeply wise, also.
351
1064049
3389
卻有著深刻的智慧。
17:59
The pieces I'm trying
to put together are this:
to put together are this:
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1067438
2909
我試著整理出這樣的結論：
18:02
Your ideas are so radical.
353
1070347
2095
你的想法非常激進。
18:04
How, in business, for example,
these ideas have been out for a while,
these ideas have been out for a while,
354
1072442
5049
舉例來說，為何在商業界，
這些想法已經出現一陣子了，
這些想法已經出現一陣子了，
18:10
probably the percentage of businesses
that have taken some of them
that have taken some of them
355
1078191
3210
但是願意多少採用一些的公司
18:13
is still quite low.
356
1081401
1902
百分比仍然很低。
18:15
Are there any times you've seen
some big company
some big company
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1083303
2898
你是否曾經看過某些大公司
18:18
take on one of your ideas
and you've gone, "Yes!"?
and you've gone, "Yes!"?
358
1086201
3629
採用你的某些想法，
然後你很開心說太棒了？
然後你很開心說太棒了？
18:21
Ricardo Semler: It happens.
It happened about two weeks ago
It happened about two weeks ago
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1089830
2797
李卡多·賽姆勒：
有，大約兩星期前才發生。
有，大約兩星期前才發生。
18:24
with Richard Branson,
with his people saying,
with his people saying,
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1092627
2210
理察·布蘭森和他的員工
兩星期前對我說過，
兩星期前對我說過，
18:26
oh, I don't want to control
your holidays anymore,
your holidays anymore,
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1094837
2532
喔，我不想再管你們
什麼時候放假了，
什麼時候放假了，
18:29
or Netflix does a little bit
of this and that,
of this and that,
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1097369
2184
網路串流媒體播放公司 Netflix
可能這裡學一點那裡學一點，
可能這裡學一點那裡學一點，
18:31
but I don't think it's very important.
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1099553
2327
但我不認為那舉足輕重。
18:33
I'd like to see it happen maybe a little
bit in a bit of a missionary zeal,
bit in a bit of a missionary zeal,
364
1101880
3754
我想看到它像傳教般的熱情展現，
18:37
but that's a very personal one.
365
1105634
1574
但傳教是非常個人的決定。
18:39
But the fact is that it takes a leap
of faith about losing control.
of faith about losing control.
366
1107208
4212
但其實放棄控制權
需要很大的信心。
需要很大的信心。
18:43
And almost nobody who is in control
is ready to take leaps of faith.
is ready to take leaps of faith.
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幾乎沒有任何有控制權的人
已經準備好要跨出這信心的一步。
已經準備好要跨出這信心的一步。
18:46
It will have to come from kids
and other people
and other people
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這需要從小孩
18:49
who are starting companies
in a different way.
in a different way.
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及用不同方法創業開公司的人開始。
18:51
CA: So that's the key thing?
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克：所以那是關鍵？
18:52
From your point of view
the evidence is there,
the evidence is there,
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從你的觀點來看證據很明顯，
18:55
in the business point of view this works,
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從商業觀點看這也能用，
18:57
but people just don't have
the courage to -- (Whoosh)
the courage to -- (Whoosh)
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但是大家就是沒有勇氣去… （咻）
18:59
RS: They don't even have the incentive.
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李：他們甚至沒有動機。
19:01
You're running a company
with a 90-day mandate.
with a 90-day mandate.
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你經營公司有 90 天的強制要求，
19:04
It's a quarterly report.
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就是季度報告。
19:06
If you're not good in 90 days, you're out.
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如果 90 天你還賺不了，就出局了。
19:08
So you say, "Here's a great program that,
in less than one generation --"
in less than one generation --"
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所以你說，「這有個很好的方案，
在不到一代的時間就……」
在不到一代的時間就……」
19:12
And the guy says, "Get out of here."
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然後這傢伙說，「滾蛋！」
19:14
So this is the problem.
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所以這就是問題所在。
19:16
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
19:19
CA: What you're trying to do in education
seems to me incredibly profound.
seems to me incredibly profound.
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克：你在教育方面的嘗試
對我來說似乎很深奧。
對我來說似乎很深奧。
19:24
Everyone is bothered about
their country's education system.
their country's education system.
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每個人都對自己
國家的教育體系憂心。
國家的教育體系憂心。
19:29
No one thinks that
we've caught up yet to a world
we've caught up yet to a world
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還沒有人想到我們已經跟不上
19:31
where there's Google and all these
technological options.
technological options.
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有 Google
及所有科技方法的世界。
及所有科技方法的世界。
19:34
So you've got actual evidence now that
the kids so far going through your system,
the kids so far going through your system,
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所以你現在有確切的證據，
到目前為止在你系統裡的孩子
到目前為止在你系統裡的孩子
19:38
there's a dramatic increase
in performance.
in performance.
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表現有極大的進步。
19:41
How do we help you move
these ideas forward?
these ideas forward?
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我們要如何幫你推行這些理念？
19:43
RS: I think it's that problem
of ideas whose time has come.
of ideas whose time has come.
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李：我想這只是時間的問題。
19:48
And I've never been very evangelical
about these things.
about these things.
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我從不曾非常狂熱地
宣傳這些理念。
宣傳這些理念。
19:52
We put it out there.
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東西就在那裡。
19:53
Suddenly, you find people --
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突然你發現大家──
19:55
there's a group in Japan,
which scares me very much,
which scares me very much,
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在日本有個團體把我嚇壞了，
19:57
which is called the Semlerists,
and they have 120 companies.
and they have 120 companies.
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叫做塞姆勒主義者，
他們有 120 家公司。
他們有 120 家公司。
20:00
They've invited me.
I've always been scared to go.
I've always been scared to go.
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他們邀請我。
我一直好害怕去那裡。
我一直好害怕去那裡。
20:05
And there is a group in Holland
that has 600 small, Dutch companies.
that has 600 small, Dutch companies.
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還有一個集團在荷蘭
有 600 間荷蘭小公司。
有 600 間荷蘭小公司。
20:10
It's something that
will flourish on its own.
will flourish on its own.
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這是會自己成長茁壯的東西。
20:13
Part of it will be wrong,
and it doesn't matter.
and it doesn't matter.
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有一部分可能會長錯，
但那無關緊要。
但那無關緊要。
20:15
This will find its own place.
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2077
它會找到屬於自己的地方。
20:17
And I'm afraid
of the other one, which says,
of the other one, which says,
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2485
我倒是很怕另一個想法，就是，
20:20
this is so good you've got to do this.
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這太棒了你一定要做這個。
20:22
Let's set up a system
and put lots of money into it
and put lots of money into it
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建立一套系統把錢投進去，
20:24
and then people will do it no matter what.
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然後大家無論如何都要做它。
20:27
CA: So you have asked
extraordinary questions your whole life.
extraordinary questions your whole life.
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克：所以你一生都在問非凡的問題。
20:30
It seems to me that's the fuel
that's driven a lot of this.
that's driven a lot of this.
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在我看來那就是推動這些的動力。
20:33
Do you have any other questions for us,
for TED, for this group here?
for TED, for this group here?
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你有其他的問題要問
我們在 TED 的這群人嗎？
我們在 TED 的這群人嗎？
20:39
RS: I always come back
to variations of the question
to variations of the question
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李：我一直在想
同一個問題的不同版本。
同一個問題的不同版本。
20:43
that my son asked me when he was three.
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3251
那是我兒子在三歲時問我的。
20:47
We were sitting in a jacuzzi,
and he said, "Dad, why do we exist?"
and he said, "Dad, why do we exist?"
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3941
我們那時坐在按摩浴缸裡，
他說：「爸爸，我們為什麼存在？」
他說：「爸爸，我們為什麼存在？」
20:51
There is no other question.
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沒有別的問題了。
20:52
Nobody has any other question.
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沒有人有任何其他問題。
20:54
We have variations of this one question,
from three onwards.
from three onwards.
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我們從三歲起就對這個問題
有各種不同的問法，
有各種不同的問法，
20:58
So when you spend time in a company,
in a bureaucracy, in an organization
in a bureaucracy, in an organization
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所以當你在某間公司、
在某個官僚機構、某個組織，
在某個官僚機構、某個組織，
21:03
and you're saying, boy --
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你說，唉！
21:05
how many people do you know
who on their death beds said,
who on their death beds said,
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你認識多少人在臨終前說，
21:07
boy, I wish I had spent
more time at the office?
more time at the office?
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2405
我真希望我在辦公室多待點時間？
21:10
So there's a whole thing
of having the courage now --
of having the courage now --
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所以整件事就是當下就要有勇氣，
21:15
not in a week, not in two months,
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1908
不是下星期，也不是兩個月後，
21:17
not when you find out
you have something --
you have something --
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不是在你發現你生了什麼病之後，
21:19
to say, no, what am I doing this for?
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才說，我到底在這裡做什麼？
21:22
Stop everything. Let me do something else.
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現在就停止一切。
讓我做點別的事。
讓我做點別的事。
21:24
And it will be okay,
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沒關係的。
就算你卡住了，
還是會比你現在手邊做的更好。
還是會比你現在手邊做的更好。
21:26
it will be much better
than what you're doing,
than what you're doing,
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21:28
if you're stuck in a process.
424
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3108
21:31
CA: So that strikes me as a profound
and quite beautiful way to end
and quite beautiful way to end
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克：我真的覺得
以這樣結束 TED 倒數第二天
以這樣結束 TED 倒數第二天
21:34
this penultimate day of TED.
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真是深奧又美好。
21:36
Ricardo Semler, thank you so much.
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李卡多·賽姆勒，謝謝！
21:37
RS: Thank you so much.
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李：謝謝！
21:39
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ricardo Semler - Organizational changemakerTwo decades after transforming a struggling equipment supplier into a radically democratic and resilient (and successful) company, Ricardo Semler wants organizations to become wise.
Why you should listen
After assuming control of Semler & Company (Semco) from his father in 1980, Brazil's Ricardo Semler began a decades-long quest to create an organization that could function without him, by studying and then implementing what could best be called "corporate democracy", allowing employees to design their own jobs, select their supervisors, and define pay levels. He has then applied the same principles to education, banking and hospitality. All with very good results.
He's now promoting the idea of designing organizations -- companies, schools, NGOs -- for wisdom. With a question as a starting point: If we were to start from scratch, would we design organization X the way we have done it?
More profile about the speakerHe's now promoting the idea of designing organizations -- companies, schools, NGOs -- for wisdom. With a question as a starting point: If we were to start from scratch, would we design organization X the way we have done it?
Ricardo Semler | Speaker | TED.com