ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology.

Why you should listen

Andrew Solomon is a writer, lecturer and Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University. He is president of PEN American Center. He writes regularly for The New Yorker and the New York Times.

Solomon's newest book, Far and Away: Reporting from the Brink of Change, Seven Continents, Twenty-Five Years was published in April, 2016. His previous book, Far From the Tree: Parents, Children, and the Search for Identity won the National Book Critics Circle award for nonfiction, the Wellcome Prize and 22 other national awards. It tells the stories of parents who not only learn to deal with their exceptional children but also find profound meaning in doing so. It was a New York Times bestseller in both hardcover and paperback editions. Solomon's previous book, The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, won the 2001 National Book Award for Nonfiction, was a finalist for the 2002 Pulitzer Prize and was included in The Times of London's list of one hundred best books of the decade. It has been published in twenty-four languages. Solomon is also the author of the novel A Stone Boat and of The Irony Tower: Soviet Artists in a Time of Glasnost.

Solomon is an activist in LGBT rights, mental health, education and the arts. He is a member of the boards of directors of the National LGBTQ Force and Trans Youth Family Allies. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of Columbia University Medical Center, serves on the National Advisory Board of the Depression Center at the University of Michigan, is a director of Columbia Psychiatry and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. Solomon also serves on the boards of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Yaddo and The Alex Fund, which supports the education of Romani children. He is also a fellow of Berkeley College at Yale University and a member of the New York Institute for the Humanities and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Solomon lives with his husband and son in New York and London and is a dual national. He also has a daughter with a college friend; mother and daughter live in Texas but visit often.

More profile about the speaker
Andrew Solomon | Speaker | TED.com

TEDxMet

Andrew Solomon: Depression, the secret we share

Andrew Solomon: Depresija, zajednička tajna

Filmed: 2013-10-23

Readability: 3.5

10,174,764 views

"Suprotnost depresiji nije sreća, nego vitalnost, a činilo se kao da je vitalnost tada kopnila iz mene." U predavanju koje je u jednakoj mjeri rječito i razarajuće pisac Andrew Solomon vodi vas u najtamnije kutke svoga uma u godinama kad se borio s depresijom. To ga je povelo na zapanjujuće putovanje svijetom kako bi intervjuirao druge ljude koji pate od depresije. Na vlastito je iznenađenje ustanovio da što je više on govorio, to mu je više drugih ljudi željelo ispričati vlastite životne priče. (Snimljeno na TEDxMet.)

Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15

"I feltosjećala a funeralpogreb in my brainmozak,

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"Osjetih pogreb, u svom mozgu,

00:19

and mournersožalošćenih to and froamo-tamo

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a žalobnici uzvrzmani

00:22

keptčuva treadingmiješam, treadingmiješam tilldo I feltosjećala

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gaze - i gaze - sve dok ne bi osjetio

00:24

that senseosjećaj was breakinglom throughkroz.

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k'o da moj um se probi van.

00:27

And when they all were seatedsjedi,

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A kad su sjeli, svi,

00:29

a serviceservis, like a drumbubanj,

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obred je poput bubnja

00:31

keptčuva beatingbijenje, beatingbijenje, tilldo I feltosjećala

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stao da bije, bije, sve dok ne osjetih

00:34

my mindum was going numbzanijemio.

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da moja pamet obamrije

00:37

And then I heardčuo them liftlift a boxkutija

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A kada čuh da kovčeg dižu

00:39

and creakškripi acrosspreko my soulduša

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i kroz dušu mi škripe

00:41

with those sameisti bootsčizme of leaddovesti again,

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one iste olovne čizme, opet,

00:45

then spaceprostor beganpočeo to tollcestarina,

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prostor tada stade da zvoni,

00:48

as if the heavensnebo were a bellzvono

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k'o da su sva nebesa zvono,

00:50

and beingbiće were an earuho,

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a biće samo da je uho,

00:52

and I, and silencetišina, some strangečudan raceutrka

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i ja, i tišina, čudno pleme

00:55

wreckedUništio, solitaryosamljeni, here.

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ovdje, brodolomno i samo.

00:58

Just then, a plankdaska in reasonrazlog brokerazbio,

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Tada baš u razumu puče daska

01:01

and I fellpao down and down

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i padala sam niže, niže,

01:05

and hithit a worldsvijet at everysvaki plungeUronite,

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po jedan svijet otkrih svakim uronom

01:07

and finishedgotov knowingpoznavanje then."

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– i kraj znanja stiže".

01:12

We know depressiondepresija throughkroz metaphorsmetafore.

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Depresiju poznajemo kroz metafore.

01:15

EmilyEmily DickinsonDickinson was ableu stanju to conveyprenijeti it in languagejezik,

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Emily Dickinson prenijela ju je riječima,

01:19

GoyaGoya in an imageslika.

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Goya slikom.

01:22

HalfPola the purposesvrha of artumjetnost

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Polovina svrhe umjetnosti

01:24

is to describeopisati suchtakav iconickultni statesDržave.

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jest opisivati takva ikonska stanja.

01:27

As for me, I had always thought myselfsebe toughtvrd,

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Ja sam sebe uvijek smatrao čvrstim,

01:31

one of the people who could survivepreživjeti

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jednim od onih koji bi preživjeli

01:33

if I'd been sentposlao to a concentrationkoncentracija campkamp.

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da završe u koncentracijskom logoru.

01:36

In 1991, I had a seriesniz of lossesgubici.

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Godine 1991. doživio sam niz gubitaka.

01:39

My mothermajka diedumro,

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Umrla mi je majka,

01:41

a relationshipodnos I'd been in endedzavršeno,

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završila je veza u kojoj sam bio,

01:43

I movedpomaknuto back to the UnitedUjedinjeni StatesDržava

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vratio sam se u SAD nakon
nekoliko godina u inozemstvu,

01:45

from some yearsgodina abroadu inozemstvu,

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01:47

and I got throughkroz all of those experiencesiskustva intactnetaknut.

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i sva sam ova iskustva prošao netaknut.

01:50

But in 1994, threetri yearsgodina laterkasnije,

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Ali 1994., tri godine kasnije,

01:53

I foundpronađeno myselfsebe losinggubljenje interestinteres in almostskoro everything.

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vidio sam da gubim interes za gotovo sve.

01:57

I didn't want to do any of the things

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Nisam želio raditi ništa od onoga
što sam prije želio raditi,

01:59

I had previouslyprethodno wanted to do,

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02:01

and I didn't know why.

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a nisam znao zašto.

02:03

The oppositesuprotan of depressiondepresija

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Suprotnost depresiji nije sreća,

02:05

is not happinesssreća, but vitalityvitalnost,

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nego vitalnost,

02:08

and it was vitalityvitalnost

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a činilo se da upravo vitalnost
tada kopni iz mene.

02:10

that seemedčinilo se to seepcuriti away from me in that momenttrenutak.

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02:14

Everything there was to do

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Sve što je trebalo raditi
činilo se kao previše posla.

02:16

seemedčinilo se like too much work.

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02:18

I would come home

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Došao bih kući,

02:20

and I would see the redcrvena lightsvjetlo
flashingtreperi on my answeringodgovaranje machinemašina,

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vidio da na telefonskoj sekretarici
svijetli crveno svjetlo,

02:23

and insteadumjesto of beingbiće thrilledoduševljen to hearčuti from my friendsprijatelji,

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i umjesto da se radujem čuti prijatelje,

pomislio bih,
"Koliko ljudi koje moram nazvati."

02:25

I would think,

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02:27

"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."

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02:30

Or I would decideodlučiti I should have lunchručak,

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Ili bih odlučio ručati,

02:32

and then I would think, but
I'd have to get the foodhrana out

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ali onda bih se sjetio
da moram izvaditi hranu,

02:35

and put it on a plateploča

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staviti je na tanjur,

02:37

and cutrez it up and chewžvakati it and swallowgutljaj it,

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rezati je, žvakati i gutati,

02:41

and it feltosjećala to me like the StationsStanice of the CrossKriž.

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što mi se činilo kao postaje križnog puta.

02:45

And one of the things that oftenčesto getsdobiva lostizgubljen

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Jedna od stvari koje se često izgube

02:47

in discussionsrasprave of depressiondepresija

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u raspravama o depresiji

02:49

is that you know it's ridiculoussmiješan.

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jest to da znaš da je suludo.

02:51

You know it's ridiculoussmiješan while you're experiencingdoživljava it.

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Znaš da je suludo dok to proživljavaš.

02:54

You know that mostnajviše people manageupravljati

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Znaš da većina ljudi uspijeva

02:56

to listen to theirnjihov messagesporuke and eatjesti lunchručak

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preslušati poruke i pojesti ručak

02:58

and organizeorganizirati themselvesse to take a showertuš

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i organizirati se tako da se otuširaju

03:00

and go out the frontispred doorvrata

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i izađu iz kuće,

03:02

and that it's not a bigvelika dealdogovor,

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i da to nije velika stvar,

03:03

and yetjoš you are nonethelessipak in its gripzahvat

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a opet, ti si joj u raljama

03:06

and you are unablenesposoban to figurelik out any way around it.

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i ne uspijevaš smisliti kako se izvući.

03:10

And so I beganpočeo to feel myselfsebe doing lessmanje

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I tako sam počeo primjećivati
da sve manje činim,

03:15

and thinkingmišljenje lessmanje

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sve manje mislim

03:17

and feelingosjećaj lessmanje.

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i sve manje osjećam.

03:19

It was a kindljubazan of nullityništavilo.

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Bila je to neka vrsta ništavnosti.

03:22

And then the anxietyanksioznost setset in.

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A onda se pojavila tjeskoba.

03:24

If you told me that I'd have to be

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Da ste mi rekli da moram

03:26

depresseddepresivno for the nextSljedeći monthmjesec,

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mjesec dana biti depresivan,

03:28

I would say, "As long I know it'llto će be
over in NovemberStudeni, I can do it."

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rekao bih, "Ako znam da će
biti gotovo do studenog, mogu ja to."

03:31

But if you said to me,

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Ali da ste mi rekli,

03:32

"You have to have acuteakutan anxietyanksioznost for the nextSljedeći monthmjesec,"

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"Idućih mjesec dana moraš
patiti od akutne tjeskobe",

03:35

I would ratherradije slitrazrez my wristručni zglob than go throughkroz it.

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radije bih prerezao žile
nego prolazio kroz to.

03:38

It was the feelingosjećaj all the time

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Cijelo sam vrijeme imao osjećaj

03:40

like that feelingosjećaj you have if you're walkinghodanje

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nalik onome kad hodaš

03:42

and you slipskliznuti or tripputovanje

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i posklizneš se ili spotakneš

03:43

and the groundtlo is rushingTo up at you,

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i tlo juri prema vama,

03:45

but insteadumjesto of lastingtrajanju halfpola a
seconddrugi, the way that does,

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ali umjesto da to traje
pola sekunde kao inače,

03:48

it lastedTrajalo je for sixšest monthsmjeseci.

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to je trajalo šest mjeseci.

03:50

It's a sensationosjećaj of beingbiće afraiduplašen all the time

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Bio je to osjećaj stalnog straha,

03:53

but not even knowingpoznavanje what it is that you're afraiduplašen of.

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ali ne znajući čega se bojite.

03:57

And it was at that pointtočka that I beganpočeo to think

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Tada sam počeo razmišljati

03:59

that it was just too painfulbolan to be aliveživ,

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kako je jednostavno prebolno živjeti

04:03

and that the only reasonrazlog not to killubiti oneselfsebe

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i da je jedini razlog da se ne ubijem

04:06

was so as not to hurtpovrijediti other people.

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bio taj da ne povrijedim druge ljude.

04:09

And finallykonačno one day, I wokeprobudio up

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Onda sam se jednog dana probudio

04:12

and I thought perhapsmožda I'd had a strokeudar,

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i pomislio da sam imao moždani udar

04:14

because I laypoložiti in bedkrevet completelypotpuno frozenzamrznut,

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jer sam ležao u krevetu potpuno zamrznut,

04:16

looking at the telephonetelefon, thinkingmišljenje,

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gledajući u telefon i misleći,

04:18

"Something is wrongpogrešno and I should call for help,"

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"Nešto nije u redu
i trebao bih pozvati pomoć,"

04:22

and I couldn'tne mogu reachdohvatiti out my armruka

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ali nisam mogao ispružiti ruku,

04:24

and pickodabrati up the phonetelefon and dialbiranje.

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uzeti telefon i okrenuti broj.

04:26

And finallykonačno, after fourčetiri fullpuni hourssati
of my lyinglaganje and staringzurenje at it,

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Konačno, nakon što sam puna četiri sata
ležao i buljio u njega,

04:30

the phonetelefon rangZvala,

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telefon je zazvonio

04:32

and somehownekako I managedupravlja to pickodabrati it up,

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i nekako sam uspio podići slušalicu.

04:34

and it was my fatherotac,

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Bio je to moj otac

04:36

and I said, "I'm in seriousozbiljan troublenevolja.

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i rekao sam, "Imam ozbiljan problem.

04:39

We need to do something."

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Moramo nešto poduzeti."

04:41

The nextSljedeći day I startedpočeo with the medicationslijekovi

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Idućeg dana započeo sam s lijekovima

04:44

and the therapyterapija.

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i terapijom.

04:47

And I alsotakođer startedpočeo reckoningobračun

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Također sam počeo razmatrati

04:49

with this terribleužasan questionpitanje:

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ovo užasno pitanje:

04:51

If I'm not the toughtvrd personosoba

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ako nisam čvrsta osoba

04:53

who could have madenapravljen it
throughkroz a concentrationkoncentracija campkamp,

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koja bi mogla preživjeti
koncentracijski logor,

04:56

then who am I?

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tko sam onda?

04:57

And if I have to take medicationliječenje,

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Ako moram uzimati lijekove,

04:59

is that medicationliječenje makingizrađivanje me more fullypotpuno myselfsebe,

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jesam li zbog njih više "ja"

05:03

or is it makingizrađivanje me someonenetko elsedrugo?

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ili me oni pretvaraju u nekoga drugog?

05:05

And how do I feel about it

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I što ja mislim o tome

05:07

if it's makingizrađivanje me someonenetko elsedrugo?

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ukoliko me pretvaraju u nekoga drugog?

05:09

I had two advantagesprednosti as I wentotišao in to the fightborba.

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Imao sam dvije prednosti
kad sam se upustio u tu borbu.

05:13

The first is that I knewznao that, objectivelyobjektivno speakinggovor,

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Prva je bila ta da sam znao da,
objektivno gledajući,

05:16

I had a nicelijepo life,

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imam lijep život

05:17

and that if I could only get well,

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i ako uspijem ozdraviti,

05:19

there was something at the other endkraj

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na drugom kraju postoji nešto

05:21

that was worthvrijedan livingživot for.

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za što vrijedi živjeti.

05:23

And the other was that I had
accesspristup to good treatmentliječenje.

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Druga je bila ta da sam imao
pristup kvalitetnom liječenju.

05:26

But I nonethelessipak emergedpojavila and relapsedrelapsed,

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Ali stanje bi mi se svejedno
poboljšalo pa pogoršalo,

05:29

and emergedpojavila and relapsedrelapsed,

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i poboljšalo pa pogoršalo,

05:32

and emergedpojavila and relapsedrelapsed,

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i poboljšalo pa pogoršalo,

05:35

and finallykonačno understoodrazumjeti

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dok konačno nisam shvatio

05:37

I would have to be on medicationliječenje

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da ću zauvijek morati biti
na lijekovima i na terapiji.

05:39

and in therapyterapija foreverzauvijek.

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05:41

And I thought, "But is it a chemicalkemijski problemproblem

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Pomislio sam, "Je li to kemijski problem

05:44

or a psychologicalpsihološki problemproblem?

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ili psihološki problem?

05:45

And does it need a chemicalkemijski curelijek
or a philosophicalfilozofski curelijek?"

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I treba li mi kemijski lijek
ili pak onaj filozofski?"

05:49

And I couldn'tne mogu figurelik out whichkoji it was.

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I nisam mogao dokučiti o čemu se radi.

05:51

And then I understoodrazumjeti that actuallyzapravo,

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Onda sam shvatio da zapravo nismo
ni u jednom od područja dovoljno napredni,

05:54

we aren'tnisu advancednapredan enoughdovoljno in eitherili areapodručje

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05:56

for it to explainobjasniti things fullypotpuno.

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a da bi ono potpuno objasnilo stvari.

05:58

The chemicalkemijski curelijek and the psychologicalpsihološki curelijek

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I kemijsko i psihološko liječenje
imaju svoje mjesto.

06:01

bothoba have a roleuloga to playigrati,

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06:03

and I alsotakođer figuredshvaćen out that depressiondepresija was something

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Također sam uvidio da je depresija
toliko duboko upletena u nas

06:06

that was braidedpletena so deepduboko into us

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06:09

that there was no separatingrazdvajajući it

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da ju je nemoguće razdvojiti
od našeg karaktera i osobnosti.

06:10

from our characterlik and personalityosoba.

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06:13

I want to say that the treatmentstretmani we have

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Želim reći da su tretmani koje
imamo za depresiju užasni.

06:15

for depressiondepresija are appallingužasan.

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06:17

They're not very effectivedjelotvoran.

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Nisu baš učinkoviti.

06:19

They're extremelykrajnje costlyskup.

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Iznimno su skupi.

06:21

They come with innumerablebezbroj sidestrana effectsefekti.

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Dolaze uz bezbrojne nuspojave.

06:24

They're a disasterkatastrofa.

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Katastrofa su.

06:25

But I am so gratefulzahvalan that I liveživjeti now

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Ali zahvalan sam da živim sada,

06:28

and not 50 yearsgodina agoprije,

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a ne prije 50 godina

06:30

when there would have been almostskoro nothing

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kad se gotovo ništa ne bi moglo učiniti.

06:32

to be doneučinio.

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06:33

I hopenada that 50 yearsgodina hencestoga,

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Nadam se da će za 50 godina

06:36

people will hearčuti about my treatmentstretmani

151

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ljudi čuti o mojem liječenju

06:37

and be appalledzaprepašten that anyonebilo tko enduredpodnio

152

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2133

i biti zgroženi što je itko trpio

06:40

suchtakav primitiveprimitivan scienceznanost.

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2826

takvu primitivnu znanost.

06:42

DepressionDepresija is the flawmana in love.

154

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4556

Depresija je mana u ljubavi.

06:47

If you were marriedoženjen to someonenetko and thought,

155

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3141

Da ste s nekime u braku i pomislite,

06:50

"Well, if my wifežena diesumire, I'll find anotherjoš one,"

156

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3595

"Ha, ako mi umre žena, naći ću si drugu",

06:54

it wouldn'tne bi be love as we know it.

157

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3046

to ne bismo smatrali ljubavlju.

06:57

There's no suchtakav thing as love

158

405223

1950

Ne postoji takva ljubav

06:59

withoutbez the anticipationiščekivanje of lossgubitak,

159

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2644

koja ne uključuje očekivanje gubitka,

07:01

and that specterspektar of despairočajavati

160

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2584

a ta slutnja očajanja

07:04

can be the enginemotor of intimacyintimnost.

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3729

može biti pokretač intimosti.

07:08

There are threetri things people tendskloni to confusezbuniti:

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Postoje tri stvari koje ljudi miješaju:

07:11

depressiondepresija, grieftuga and sadnesstuga.

163

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3800

depresiju, žalost i tugu.

07:14

GriefTuga is explicitlyeksplicitno reactivereaktivni.

164

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3286

Žalost je isključivo reakcija.

07:18

If you have a lossgubitak and you feel incrediblynevjerojatno unhappynesretan,

165

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Ako ste doživjeli gubitak
i osjećate se užasno nesretno,

07:21

and then, sixšest monthsmjeseci laterkasnije,

166

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1633

a onda šest mjeseci kasnije

07:22

you are still deeplyduboko sadtužan, but
you're functioningfunkcioniranje a little better,

167

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3222

i dalje osjećate duboku žalost,
ali malo bolje funkcionirate,

07:25

it's probablyvjerojatno grieftuga,

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1728

vjerojatno je riječ o žalosti

07:27

and it will probablyvjerojatno ultimatelyna kraju resolveodlučnost itselfsebe

169

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2292

koja će se vjerojatno riješiti
sama od sebe, barem do određene mjere.

07:29

in some measuremjera.

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1449

07:31

If you experienceiskustvo a catastrophickatastrofalan lossgubitak,

171

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2751

Ako doživite katastrofalan gubitak,

07:34

and you feel terribleužasan,

172

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1214

i osjećate se užasno,

07:35

and sixšest monthsmjeseci laterkasnije you can barelyjedva functionfunkcija at all,

173

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a za šest mjeseci jedva funkcionirate,

07:38

then it's probablyvjerojatno a depressiondepresija that was triggeredpotaknuta

174

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2585

vjerojatno se radi o depresiji
kojoj su okidač bile

07:40

by the catastrophickatastrofalan circumstancesokolnosti.

175

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2474

te katastrofalne okolnosti.

07:43

The trajectoryputanja tellsgovori us a great dealdogovor.

176

451449

3632

Putanja kroz vrijeme nam mnogo kazuje.

07:47

People think of depressiondepresija as beingbiće just sadnesstuga.

177

455081

3358

Ljudi misle da je depresija naprosto tuga.

07:50

It's much, much too much sadnesstuga,

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2336

To je puno, puno previše tuge,

07:52

much too much grieftuga

179

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1664

puno previše žalosti

07:54

at fardaleko too slightblagi a causeuzrok.

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2929

zbog previše neznatnog razloga.

07:57

As I setset out to understandrazumjeti depressiondepresija,

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2747

Kad sam krenuo razumjeti depresiju i

08:00

and to interviewintervju people who had experiencediskusan it,

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2835

intervjuirati ljude koji su je proživjeli,

08:02

I foundpronađeno that there were people who seemedčinilo se

183

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3031

shvatio sam da postoje ljudi koji

08:05

on the surfacepovršinski to have what soundedzvučalo like

184

473981

1705

na prvi pogled djeluju
relativno blago depresivno,

08:07

relativelyrelativno mildblag depressiondepresija

185

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2062

08:09

who were nonethelessipak utterlysasvim disabledonesposobljen by it.

186

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3447

a koji su od nje ipak
potpuno onemoćali.

08:13

And there were other people who had what soundedzvučalo

187

481195

1858

I bili su drugi koji su imali
nešto što je zvučalo kao

08:15

as they describedopisan it

188

483053

1312

08:16

like terriblyužasno severeozbiljan depressiondepresija

189

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2251

strašno duboka depresija,

08:18

who nonethelessipak had good livesživot in the intersticesinterstices

190

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2815

a koji su ipak dobro živjeli u razdobljima

08:21

betweenizmeđu theirnjihov depressivedepresivni episodesEpizoda.

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2155

između depresivnih epizoda.

08:23

And I setset out to find out what it is

192

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2685

Naumio sam saznati što je to

08:26

that causesuzroci some people

193

494271

1603

što neke ljude čini otpornijima od drugih.

08:27

to be more resilientelastičan than other people.

194

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2253

08:30

What are the mechanismsmehanizmi

195

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1559

Koji su to mehanizmi

08:31

that allowdopustiti people to survivepreživjeti?

196

499686

1844

koji ljudima omogućuju preživljvanje?

08:33

And I wentotišao out and I interviewedintervjuiran personosoba after personosoba

197

501530

3169

Intervjuirao sam cijeli niz osoba

08:36

who was sufferingpati with depressiondepresija.

198

504699

2175

koje su patile od depresije.

08:38

One of the first people I interviewedintervjuiran

199

506874

1951

Jedna od prvih koje sam

08:40

describedopisan depressiondepresija

200

508825

1881

intervjuirao depresiju je opisala kao

08:42

as a slowersporije way of beingbiće deadmrtav,

201

510706

3261

sporiji način bivanja mrtvim.

08:45

and that was a good thing for me to hearčuti earlyrano on

202

513967

2124

Dobro je da sam to čuo
na početku jer me podsjetilo

08:48

because it remindedpodsjetio me

203

516091

1366

08:49

that that slowusporiti way of beingbiće deadmrtav

204

517457

1999

da taj spori način bivanja mrtvim

08:51

can leaddovesti to actualstvaran deadnessTo će,

205

519456

2035

može dovesti do prave smrti,

08:53

that this is a seriousozbiljan businessPoslovni.

206

521491

2004

da se radi o ozbiljnoj stvari.

08:55

It's the leadingvodeći disabilityosobe s invaliditetom worldwideširom svijeta,

207

523495

2659

Ona je vodeći uzrok invaliditeta u svijetu

08:58

and people dieumrijeti of it everysvaki day.

208

526154

3030

i ljudi od nje svakodnevno umiru.

09:01

One of the people I talkedRazgovarao to

209

529184

1769

Jedna od osoba s kojom sam razgovarao
dok sam ovo pokušavao razumjeti

09:02

when I was tryingtežak to understandrazumjeti this

210

530953

1974

09:04

was a beloveddragi friendprijatelj

211

532927

1668

bila je draga prijateljica

09:06

who I had knownznan for manymnogi yearsgodina,

212

534595

2018

koju sam godinama poznavao.

09:08

and who had had a psychoticpsihotičan episodeEpizoda

213

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2542

Imala je psihotični napad

09:11

in her freshmanbrucoš yeargodina of collegekoledž,

214

539155

1904

na prvoj godini fakulteta,

09:13

and then plummetedsu se pogoršali into a horrificužasavajući depressiondepresija.

215

541059

3056

a onda se survala u užasnu depresiju.

09:16

She had bipolarbipolarni illnessbolest,

216

544115

1426

Imala je bipolarni poremećaj,

09:17

or manicmanične depressiondepresija, as it was then knownznan.

217

545541

2643

tada poznat kao manična depresija.

09:20

And then she did very well

218

548184

2044

Onda joj je niz godina
bilo jako dobro na litiju.

09:22

for manymnogi yearsgodina on lithiumlitij,

219

550228

1708

09:23

and then eventuallyeventualno,

220

551936

1375

S vremenom je skinuta s litija

09:25

she was takenpoduzete off her lithiumlitij

221

553311

1960

09:27

to see how she would do withoutbez it,

222

555271

1835

da bi se vidjelo kako joj je bez njega

09:29

and she had anotherjoš psychosispsihoza,

223

557106

1975

pa je imala još jedan psihotični napadaj

09:31

and then plungedumočen into the worstnajgori depressiondepresija

224

559081

2338

i onda pala u najgoru depresiju
koju sam ikad vidio.

09:33

that I had ever seenvidio

225

561419

1872

09:35

in whichkoji she satsat in her parents'roditelja apartmentapartman,

226

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3015

Sjedila je u stanu svojih roditelja

09:38

more or lessmanje catatonickatatoničan, essentiallyu srži withoutbez movingkreće,

227

566306

3077

manje-više katatonična, nepomična,

09:41

day after day after day.

228

569383

2482

dan za danom.

09:43

And when I interviewedintervjuiran her about
that experienceiskustvo some yearsgodina laterkasnije --

229

571865

3217

Kad sam je nekoliko godina poslije
intervjuirao o tom iskustvu -

09:47

she's a poetpjesnik and psychotherapistpsihoterapeut
namedpod nazivom MaggieMaggie RobbinsRobbins —

230

575082

3331

ona je pjesnikinja i psihoterapeutkinja
Maggie Robbins -

09:50

when I interviewedintervjuiran her, she said,

231

578413

3233

u intervjuu je rekla,

09:53

"I was singingpjevanje 'Where' Gdje Have All The FlowersCvijeće Gone'Nema '

232

581646

3384

"Pjevala sam
'Where Have All the Flowers Gone'

09:57

over and over to occupyzauzeti my mindum.

233

585030

3210

iznova i iznova da zaokupim um.

10:00

I was singingpjevanje to blotmrlja out the
things my mindum was sayingizreka,

234

588240

3135

Pjevala sam to kako bih nadglasala
ono što mi je moj um govorio:

10:03

whichkoji were, 'You' Ti are nothing. You are nobodynitko.

235

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4490

'Ti si ništa. Ti si nitko.

10:07

You don't even deservezaslužiti to liveživjeti.'

236

595865

2826

Ne zaslužuješ ni živjeti.'

10:10

And that was when I really startedpočeo thinkingmišljenje

237

598691

2178

Tada sam stvarno počela razmišljati

10:12

about killingubijanje myselfsebe."

238

600869

2213

o tome da se ubijem."

10:15

You don't think in depressiondepresija

239

603082

1908

U depresiji ne mislite

10:16

that you've put on a graysiva veilveo

240

604990

2137

da ste stavili sivi veo

10:19

and are seeingvidim the worldsvijet throughkroz the hazesumaglica

241

607127

1980

i da svijet promatrate kroz maglicu

10:21

of a badloše moodraspoloženje.

242

609107

1894

lošeg raspoloženja.

10:23

You think that the veilveo has been takenpoduzete away,

243

611001

2720

Mislite da je veo skinut,

10:25

the veilveo of happinesssreća,

244

613721

1922

veo sreće

10:27

and that now you're seeingvidim trulyuistinu.

245

615643

2424

i da tek sada istinski vidite.

10:30

It's easierlakše to help schizophrenicsšizofreničari who perceivedoživljavaju

246

618067

2964

Lakše je pomoći shizofrenima koji vide

10:33

that there's something foreignstrana insideiznutra of them

247

621031

1811

da se u njima nalazi nešto strano
što je potrebno odstraniti.

10:34

that needspotrebe to be exorcisedistjeran,

248

622842

2187

10:37

but it's difficulttežak with depressivesdepresivne osobe,

249

625029

2164

S depresivnima je teško

10:39

because we believe we are seeingvidim the truthistina.

250

627193

3847

jer mi vjerujemo da vidimo istinu.

10:43

But the truthistina lieslaži.

251

631040

2947

Ali istina laže.

10:45

I becamepostao obsessedopsjednut with that sentencekazna:

252

633987

1998

Postao sam opsjednut rečenicom:

10:47

"But the truthistina lieslaži."

253

635985

2375

"Ali istina laže."

10:50

And I discoveredotkriven, as I talkedRazgovarao to depressivedepresivni people,

254

638360

2453

Razgovarajući s depresivnim ljudima,
otkrio sam

10:52

that they have manymnogi delusionalzabludi perceptionspercepcija.

255

640813

2682

da imaju puno sumanutih uvjerenja.

10:55

People will say, "No one lovesvoli me."

256

643495

1667

Oni će reći, "Nitko me ne voli."

10:57

And you say, "I love you,

257

645162

1651

A vi kažete, "Ja te volim,

10:58

your wifežena lovesvoli you, your mothermajka lovesvoli you."

258

646813

2522

tvoja te žena voli, tvoja te majka voli."

11:01

You can answerodgovor that one prettyprilično readilyspremno,

259

649335

1923

Na to pitanje možete spremno odgovoriti,

11:03

at leastnajmanje for mostnajviše people.

260

651258

1665

barem kod većine ljudi.

11:04

But people who are depresseddepresivno will alsotakođer say,

261

652923

2267

Ali depresivni će ljudi također reći,

11:07

"No matterstvar what we do,

262

655190

1705

"Što god učinili, na kraju
ćemo svejedno umrijeti."

11:08

we're all just going to dieumrijeti in the endkraj."

263

656895

2273

11:11

Or they'lloni će say, "There can be no truepravi communionzajedništvo

264

659168

2203

Ili će reći, "Nije moguća prava
bliskost između dvoje ljudi.

11:13

betweenizmeđu two humanljudski beingsbića.

265

661371

1653

11:15

EachSvaki of us is trappedzarobljena in his ownvlastiti bodytijelo."

266

663024

2576

Svatko je zarobljen u svome tijelu."

11:17

To whichkoji you have to say,

267

665600

1849

Na što morate reći,

11:19

"That's truepravi,

268

667449

1321

"Istina, ali sad se moramo usmjeriti

11:20

but I think we should focusfokus right now

269

668770

1818

na to što ćemo doručkovati."

11:22

on what to have for breakfastdoručak."

270

670588

1896

11:24

(LaughterSmijeh)

271

672484

2185

11:26

A lot of the time,

272

674669

1669

Često, ono što oni izražavaju
nije bolest, nego uvid

11:28

what they are expressingizražavanje is not illnessbolest, but insightuvid,

273

676338

2896

11:31

and one comesdolazi to think what's really extraordinaryizvanredan

274

679234

2657

i shvatite da je uistinu nevjerojatno
da većina nas zna za ova

11:33

is that mostnajviše of us know about
those existentialegzistencijalni questionspitanja

275

681891

2934

egzistencijalna pitanja,
ali ona nam baš i ne odvlače pažnju.

11:36

and they don't distractodvratiti us very much.

276

684825

2290

11:39

There was a studystudija I particularlynaročito likedvolio

277

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Jedno mi se istraživanje osobito svidjelo.

11:41

in whichkoji a groupskupina of depresseddepresivno

278

689274

1680

U njemu su skupina depresivnih
i skupina nedepresivnih ljudi

11:42

and a groupskupina of non-depressedsobe-depresivan people

279

690954

1901

11:44

were askedpitao to playigrati a videovideo gameigra for an hoursat,

280

692855

2623

trebale sat vremena
igrati video-igricu,

11:47

and at the endkraj of the hoursat,

281

695478

1813

a kad je taj sat istekao,

11:49

they were askedpitao how manymnogi little monstersčudovišta

282

697291

1651

pitali su ih da procijene
koliko su malih čudovišta ubili.

11:50

they thought they had killedubijen.

283

698942

1864

11:52

The depressivedepresivni groupskupina was usuallyobično accuratetočan

284

700806

2212

Depresivna je skupina većinom
bila točna unutar 10-ak %,

11:55

to withinunutar about 10 percentposto,

285

703018

2058

11:57

and the non-depressedsobe-depresivan people

286

705076

1471

a nedepresivne su osobe
procjenjivale 15 do 20 puta više

11:58

guessedpogađate betweenizmeđu 15 and 20 timesputa as manymnogi

287

706547

3545

12:02

little monstersčudovišta — (LaughterSmijeh) —

288

710092

1742

malih čudovišta

12:03

as they had actuallyzapravo killedubijen.

289

711834

4111

nego što su ih zapravo ubile.

12:07

A lot of people said, when I choseizabrati
to writepisati about my depressiondepresija,

290

715945

3066

Kad sam odlučio pisati o svojoj
depresiji, puno je ljudi reklo

12:11

that it mustmora be very difficulttežak

291

719011

1769

da mora da je jako teško

12:12

to be out of that closetormar, to have people know.

292

720780

3124

izaći iz ormara, razotkriti se ljudima.

12:15

They said, "Do people talk to you differentlyrazličito?"

293

723904

2200

PItali su pričaju li ljudi
drugačije sa mnom.

12:18

And I said, "Yes, people talk to me differentlyrazličito.

294

726104

2072

Rekao bih, "Da, drugačije
razgovaraju sa mnom, utoliko

12:20

They talk to me differentlyrazličito insofarograničenja o

295

728176

1914

12:22

as they startpočetak tellingreći me about theirnjihov experienceiskustvo,

296

730090

2790

što su mi počeli govoriti
o svojem iskustvu

12:24

or theirnjihov sister'ssestre experienceiskustvo,

297

732880

1835

ili iskustvu njihove sestre

12:26

or theirnjihov friend'sprijatelj je experienceiskustvo.

298

734715

1774

ili prijateljevom iskustvu.

12:28

Things are differentdrugačiji because now I know

299

736489

2292

Drugačije je jer sada znam

12:30

that depressiondepresija is the familyobitelj secrettajna

300

738781

2681

da je depresija obiteljska tajna

12:33

that everyonesvatko has.

301

741462

2077

koju svi imamo.

12:35

I wentotišao a fewnekoliko yearsgodina agoprije to a conferencekonferencija,

302

743539

3628

Prije nekoliko godina
bio sam na konferenciji

12:39

and on FridayPetak of the three-daytri dana conferencekonferencija,

303

747167

2653

i u petak te trodnevne konferencije

12:41

one of the participantssudionici tookuzeo me asideu stranu, and she said,

304

749820

2891

jedna me sudionica
pozvala na stranu i rekla,

12:44

"I sufferpatiti from depressiondepresija and

305

752711

3405

"Bolujem od depresije i
malo se sramim toga,

12:48

I'm a little embarrassedzbunjen about it,

306

756116

2769

12:50

but I've been takinguzimanje this medicationliječenje,

307

758885

2103

ali uzimam ove lijekove i samo sam
Vas htjela pitati što mislite."

12:52

and I just wanted to askpitati you what you think?"

308

760988

2948

12:55

And so I did my bestnajbolje to give
her suchtakav advicesavjet as I could.

309

763936

2834

Savjetovao sam je najbolje
što sam znao i umio.

12:58

And then she said, "You know,

310

766770

1720

Onda je rekla,

13:00

my husbandsuprug would never understandrazumjeti this.

311

768490

2791

"Znate, moj muž ovo nikad ne bi razumio.

13:03

He's really the kindljubazan of guy to whomkome
this wouldn'tne bi make any senseosjećaj,

312

771281

2573

On je tip čovjeka kome
ovo ne bi imalo smisla,

13:05

so I just, you know, it's just betweenizmeđu us."

313

773854

2867

tako da je ovo, znate, samo između nas."

13:08

And I said, "Yes, that's fine."

314

776721

1786

Rekoh, "Da, u redu."

13:10

On SundayNedjelja of the sameisti conferencekonferencija,

315

778507

2109

U nedjelju tijekom iste konferencije,

13:12

her husbandsuprug tookuzeo me asideu stranu,

316

780616

3044

na stranu me pozvao njezin muž

13:15

and he said, "My wifežena wouldn'tne bi think

317

783660

1694

i rekao, "Moja žena ne bi mislila

13:17

that I was really much of a guy if she knewznao this,

318

785354

2435

da sam neki muškarac kad bi ovo znala,

13:19

but I've been dealingbavljenje with this depressiondepresija

319

787789

2466

ali ja se borim s depresijom

13:22

and I'm takinguzimanje some medicationliječenje,

320

790255

1354

i uzimam neke lijekove
i zanimalo me što Vi mislite."

13:23

and I wonderedpitala what you think?"

321

791609

2505

13:26

They were hidingskrivanje

322

794114

1423

Skrivali su iste lijekove
na dva različita mjesta

13:27

the sameisti medicationliječenje in two differentdrugačiji placesmjesta

323

795537

2215

13:29

in the sameisti bedroomspavaća soba.

324

797752

2645

u istoj spavaćoj sobi.

13:32

And I said that I thought

325

800397

2021

Rekao sam da mislim
da bi komunikacija u braku

13:34

communicationkomunikacija withinunutar the marriagebrak

326

802418

1684

13:36

mightmoć be triggeringpokreće some of theirnjihov problemsproblemi.

327

804102

2014

mogla biti okidač nekih njihovih problema.

13:38

(LaughterSmijeh)

328

806116

4191

13:42

But I was alsotakođer struckpogođen

329

810307

1655

Ali također me pogodila

13:43

by the burdensometegoban naturepriroda

330

811962

1806

bremenita priroda

13:45

of suchtakav mutualzajednički secrecytajnost.

331

813768

2373

takve uzajamne tajnovitosti.

13:48

DepressionDepresija is so exhaustingiscrpljujući.

332

816141

1885

Depresija je tako iscrpljujuća.

13:50

It takes up so much of your time and energyenergija,

333

818026

2768

Oduzima toliko vremena i energije,

13:52

and silencetišina about it,

334

820794

1504

a šutnja o njoj

13:54

it really does make the depressiondepresija worsegore.

335

822298

2731

doista pogoršava depresiju.

13:57

And then I beganpočeo thinkingmišljenje about all the waysnačine

336

825029

1733

Onda sam počeo misliti o načinima

13:58

people make themselvesse better.

337

826762

1966

na koje ljudi sami sebi pomažu.

14:00

I'd startedpočeo off as a medicalmedicinski conservativekonzervativan.

338

828728

2439

Počeo sam kao medicinski konzervativac.

14:03

I thought there were a fewnekoliko
kindsvrste of therapyterapija that workedradio,

339

831167

2372

Mislio sam da ima nekoliko
terapija koje djeluju,

14:05

it was clearčisto what they were --

340

833539

1809

i bilo je jasno koje su to -

14:07

there was medicationliječenje,

341

835348

1644

postojali su lijekovi,

14:08

there were certainsiguran psychotherapiespsihoterapija,

342

836992

1476

određene psihoterapije,

14:10

there was possiblymožda electroconvulsiveelektro treatmentliječenje,

343

838468

2445

možda i elektrokonvulzivni tretmani,

14:12

and that everything elsedrugo was nonsensebesmislica.

344

840913

2675

a sve su drugo gluposti.

14:15

But then I discoveredotkriven something.

345

843588

1832

Ali onda sam nešto otkrio.

14:17

If you have brainmozak cancerRak,

346

845420

1752

Ako imate rak mozga i kažete
da se od dubljenja na glavi

14:19

and you say that standingstajati on your headglava

347

847172

1472

14:20

for 20 minutesminuta everysvaki morningjutro makesmarke you feel better,

348

848644

2995

po 20 minuta svakog jutra
bolje osjećate, to je moguće,

14:23

it maysvibanj make you feel better,

349

851639

1514

14:25

but you still have brainmozak cancerRak,

350

853153

1588

ali i dalje imate rak mozga i vjerojatno
ćete ipak umrijeti od njega.

14:26

and you'llvi ćete still probablyvjerojatno dieumrijeti from it.

351

854741

2289

14:29

But if you say that you have depressiondepresija,

352

857030

2512

Ali ako kažete da imate depresiju i
da se bolje osjećate ako svakog jutra

14:31

and standingstajati on your headglava for 20 minutesminuta everysvaki day

353

859542

2105

14:33

makesmarke you feel better, then it's workedradio,

354

861647

2484

dubite na glavi 20 minuta,
onda to djeluje jer je

14:36

because depressiondepresija is an illnessbolest of how you feel,

355

864131

2360

depresija bolest osjećanja.

14:38

and if you feel better,

356

866491

1609

Ako se osjećate bolje,
onda više niste depresivni.

14:40

then you are effectivelyučinkovito not depresseddepresivno anymoreviše.

357

868100

2830

14:42

So I becamepostao much more toleranttolerantni

358

870930

2033

Postao sam mnogo tolerantniji na
na široki svijet alternativnih liječenja.

14:44

of the vastogroman worldsvijet of alternativealternativa treatmentstretmani.

359

872963

2925

14:47

And I get lettersslova, I get hundredsstotine of lettersslova

360

875888

2384

Dobivam pisma, stotine njih

14:50

from people writingpisanje to tell me
about what's workedradio for them.

361

878272

2516

od ljudi koji mi govore
što je njima pomoglo.

14:52

SomeoneNetko was askingtraži me backstageiza bine todaydanas

362

880788

2201

Netko me danas iza pozornice
pitao o meditaciji.

14:54

about meditationMeditacija.

363

882989

1463

14:56

My favoriteljubimac of the lettersslova that I got

364

884452

2465

Moje omiljeno pismo je od žene

14:58

was the one that camedošao from a womanžena

365

886917

1474

15:00

who wrotenapisao and said that she had triedpokušala therapyterapija,

366

888391

2207

koja je pisala da je probala terapiju,

15:02

she had triedpokušala medicationliječenje,
she had triedpokušala prettyprilično much everything,

367

890598

2387

lijekove, manje-više sve

15:04

and she had foundpronađeno a solutionriješenje
and hopednadao I would tell the worldsvijet,

368

892985

2837

i našla je rješenje te se
nadala da ću ga reći svijetu,

15:07

and that was makingizrađivanje little things from yarnpređa.

369

895822

3812

a radilo se o izrađivanju sitnica od vune.

15:11

(LaughterSmijeh)

370

899634

2999

15:14

She sentposlao me some of them. (LaughterSmijeh)

371

902633

3524

Neke od njih mi je i poslala.

15:18

And I'm not wearingnošenje them right now.

372

906157

3688

Trenutačno nemam na sebi nijednu od njih.

15:21

I suggestedpredložio to her that she alsotakođer should look up

373

909845

2515

Predložio sam joj da pogleda
opsesivno-kompulzivni poremećaj

15:24

obsessiveopsesivno compulsivekompulzivno disorderporemećaj in the DSMDSM.

374

912360

4048

u psihijatrijskom priručniku.

15:28

And yetjoš, when I wentotišao to look
at alternativealternativa treatmentstretmani,

375

916408

3128

A opet, gledajući alternativna liječenja,

15:31

I alsotakođer gainedstekao perspectiveperspektiva on other treatmentstretmani.

376

919536

2908

primijetio sam druge tretmane.

15:34

I wentotišao throughkroz a tribalplemenski exorcismegzorcizam in SenegalSenegal

377

922444

2903

Prošao sam plemenski egzorcizam u Senegalu

15:37

that involvedumiješan a great dealdogovor of ram'sRAM je bloodkrv

378

925347

2013

koji je uključivao puno krvi ovna,
ali u te detalje neću sada ulaziti.

15:39

and that I'm not going to detaildetalj right now,

379

927360

2062

15:41

but a fewnekoliko yearsgodina afterwardsposlije I was in RwandaRuandi

380

929422

2000

Nakon nekoliko godina bio sam u Ruandi,
radio na drugom projektu,

15:43

workingrad on a differentdrugačiji projectprojekt,

381

931422

1758

15:45

and I happeneddogodilo to describeopisati
my experienceiskustvo to someonenetko,

382

933180

2796

i nekome sam opisao svoje iskustvo.

15:47

and he said, "Well, you know,

383

935976

1760

Rekao je, "To je Zapadna Afrika,
a mi smo u Istočnoj Africi,

15:49

that's WestZapad AfricaAfrika, and we're in EastIstok AfricaAfrika,

384

937736

1820

15:51

and our ritualsrituali are in some waysnačine very differentdrugačiji,

385

939556

1834

i naši se obredi umnogome razlikuju,
ali neki od njih imaju sličnosti s ovime.

15:53

but we do have some ritualsrituali that have something

386

941390

2013

15:55

in commonzajednička with what you're describingopisujući."

387

943403

1987

15:57

And I said, "Oh." And he said, "Yes," he said,

388

945390

1663

Rekao je, "Ali, znate, imali smo puno
problema sa zapadnim psiholozima,

15:59

"but we'veimamo had a lot of troublenevolja with
WesternZapadni mentalmentalni healthzdravlje workersradnici,

389

947053

2642

16:01

especiallyposebno the onesone who camedošao
right after the genocidegenocid."

390

949695

2757

osobito onima koji su došli
odmah nakon genocida."

16:04

And I said, "What kindljubazan of troublenevolja did you have?"

391

952452

2327

Pitao sam kakve su teškoće imali.

16:06

And he said, "Well,

392

954779

1546

Odgovorio je,

16:08

they would do this bizarrebizarno thing.

393

956325

2664

"Činili su nešto bizarno.

16:10

They didn't take people out in the sunshineSunce

394

958989

1885

Ne bi izveli ljude na sunce
gdje se počnete osjećati bolje.

16:12

where you beginpočeti to feel better.

395

960874

1700

16:14

They didn't includeuključiti drummingbubnjanje or musicglazba
to get people'snarodno bloodkrv going.

396

962574

3094

Ne bi koristili bubnjanje ili glazbu
da pokrenu ljude.

16:17

They didn't involveobuhvatiti the wholečitav communityzajednica.

397

965668

1842

Ne bi uključili cijelu zajednicu.

16:19

They didn't externalizeobjelodani the depressiondepresija

398

967510

1775

Nisu depresiju pripisali
vanjskoj sili, zloduhu.

16:21

as an invasiveinvazivne spiritduh.

399

969285

1433

16:22

InsteadUmjesto toga what they did was they tookuzeo people

400

970718

2631

Umjesto toga su odvodili ljude
jednog po jednog u prljave sobičke

16:25

one at a time into dingygumenjak little roomssobe

401

973349

2628

16:27

and had them talk for an hoursat

402

975977

1343

i tjerali ih da sat vremena pričaju o
lošim stvarima koje su im se dogodile."

16:29

about badloše things that had happeneddogodilo to them."

403

977320

2230

16:31

(LaughterSmijeh) (ApplausePljesak)

404

979550

5460

16:37

He said, "We had to askpitati them to leavenapustiti the countryzemlja."

405

985010

2362

Rekao je, "Morali smo ih
zamoliti da napuste zemlju."

16:39

(LaughterSmijeh)

406

987372

3057

16:42

Now at the other endkraj of alternativealternativa treatmentstretmani,

407

990429

2444

Na drugom kraju alternativnih liječenja,
pričat ću vam o Franku Russakoffu.

16:44

let me tell you about FrankFrank RussakoffRussakoff.

408

992873

2035

16:46

FrankFrank RussakoffRussakoff had the worstnajgori depressiondepresija

409

994908

3053

Frank Russakoff imao je najgoru depresiju
koju sam ikad vidio kod muškarca.

16:49

perhapsmožda that I've ever seenvidio in a man.

410

997961

2915

Bio je stalno potišten.

16:52

He was constantlykonstantno depresseddepresivno.

411

1000876

1993

16:54

He was, when I metsastali him, at a pointtočka at whichkoji

412

1002869

2141

Kad sam ga upoznao,

16:57

everysvaki monthmjesec he would have electroshockterapija elektrošokovima treatmentliječenje.

413

1005010

3158

svaki je mjesec imao tretman elektrošokom.

17:00

Then he would feel sortvrsta of disorienteddezorijentiran for a weektjedan.

414

1008168

2575

Tjedan dana bio bi nekako dezorijentiran.

17:02

Then he would feel okay for a weektjedan.

415

1010743

1803

Onda bi tjedan dana bio dobro.

17:04

Then he would have a weektjedan of going downhillnizbrdo.

416

1012546

1700

Onda bi tjedan dana propadao,

17:06

And then he would have anotherjoš
electroshockterapija elektrošokovima treatmentliječenje.

417

1014246

2685

a onda bi opet imao tretman elektrošokom.

17:08

And he said to me when I metsastali him,

418

1016931

1415

Kad sam ga upoznao, rekao je,

17:10

"It's unbearablenepodnošljiva to go throughkroz my weeksTjedni this way.

419

1018346

2552

"Nepodnošljivo mi je
ovako provoditi tjedne.

17:12

I can't go on this way,

420

1020898

1507

Ne mogu ovako nastaviti,

17:14

and I've figuredshvaćen out how I'm going to endkraj it

421

1022405

2264

i smislio sam način kako ću ovo okončati

17:16

if I don't get better.

422

1024669

1557

ako se ne oporavim.

17:18

But," he said to me, "I heardčuo about a protocolprotokol

423

1026226

2708

Ali čuo sam da u bolnici Mass General
rade postupak koji se zove cingulotomija,

17:20

at MassMasa GeneralOpće for a procedurepostupak calledzvao

424

1028934

2223

17:23

a cingulotomycingulotomija, whichkoji is a brainmozak surgerykirurgija,

425

1031157

2026

što je operacija mozga
i mislim da ću to pokušati."

17:25

and I think I'm going to give that a try."

426

1033183

2571

17:27

And I rememberzapamtiti beingbiće amazedzadivljen at that pointtočka

427

1035754

1954

Sjećam se da sam tada bio zadivljen
da je netko tko je očito imao

17:29

to think that someonenetko

428

1037708

1300

17:31

who clearlyjasno had so manymnogi badloše experiencesiskustva

429

1039008

3221

toliko loših iskustava
s toliko različitih tretmana

17:34

with so manymnogi differentdrugačiji treatmentstretmani

430

1042229

1859

17:36

still had buriedpokopan in him somewherenegdje enoughdovoljno optimismoptimizam

431

1044088

3122

sačuvao dovoljno optimizma

17:39

to reachdohvatiti out for one more.

432

1047210

2550

da posegne za još jednim.

17:41

And he had the cingulotomycingulotomija,

433

1049760

2180

Imao je cingulotomiju

17:43

and it was incrediblynevjerojatno successfuluspješan.

434

1051940

2041

koja je bila nevjerojatno uspješna.

17:45

He's now a friendprijatelj of minerudnik.

435

1053981

1493

On je sada moj prijatelj.
Ima krasnu ženu i dvoje divne djece.

17:47

He has a lovelylijep wifežena and two beautifullijep childrendjeca.

436

1055474

3492

Pisao mi je za Božić
nakon operacije i rekao:

17:50

He wrotenapisao me a letterpismo the ChristmasBožić after the surgerykirurgija,

437

1058966

2949

17:53

and he said,

438

1061915

1189

17:55

"My fatherotac sentposlao me two presentspredstavlja this yeargodina,

439

1063104

2407

"Otac mi je ove godine poslao dva poklona.

17:57

First, a motorizedmotornih vozila C.D. rackstalak from The SharperOštrije ImageSlika

440

1065511

2602

Automatsku policu za CD-ove
iz kataloga koja mi zapravo ne treba,

18:00

that I didn't really need,

441

1068113

1421

18:01

but I knewznao he was givingdavanje it to me to celebrateslaviti

442

1069534

2097

ali znao sam da mi je daje da proslavi

18:03

the factčinjenica that I'm livingživot on my ownvlastiti

443

1071631

1728

činjenicu da živim samostalno
i da imam posao koji volim.

18:05

and have a jobposao I seemčiniti se to love.

444

1073359

2047

18:07

And the other presentpredstaviti

445

1075406

1561

A drugi je poklon bila
fotografija moje bake

18:08

was a photofoto of my grandmotherbaka,

446

1076967

1576

18:10

who committedpredan suicidesamoubistvo.

447

1078543

2252

koja je počinila samoubojstvo.

18:12

As I unwrappedUnwrapped it, I beganpočeo to cryplakati,

448

1080795

2935

Kad sam je odmotao, počeo sam plakati.

18:15

and my mothermajka camedošao over and said,

449

1083730

1880

Majka mi je prišla i pitala

18:17

'Are you cryingplakati because of the
relativesrođaci you never knewznao?'

450

1085610

3315

plačem li zbog rodbine
koju nikad nisam upoznao.

18:20

And I said, 'She' Ona had the sameisti diseasebolest I have.'

451

1088925

4088

Rekao sam,
"Ona je imala istu bolest kao i ja."

18:25

I'm cryingplakati now as I writepisati to you.

452

1093013

2581

Plačem sada dok ti ovo pišem.

18:27

It's not that I'm so sadtužan, but I get overwhelmedosvaja,

453

1095594

3595

Nisam toliko tužan,
ali osjećam se preplavljeno emocijom

18:31

I think, because I could have killedubijen myselfsebe,

454

1099189

2221

zato što sam se i ja mogao ubiti,

18:33

but my parentsroditelji keptčuva me going,

455

1101410

1703

ali na životu su me održali
roditelji, kao i liječnici,

18:35

and so did the doctorsliječnici,

456

1103113

1749

18:36

and I had the surgerykirurgija.

457

1104862

1854

a onda sam imao operaciju.

18:38

I'm aliveživ and gratefulzahvalan.

458

1106716

2815

Živ sam i zahvalan.

18:41

We liveživjeti in the right time,

459

1109531

2260

Živimo u pravo vrijeme,

18:43

even if it doesn't always feel like it."

460

1111791

3879

čak iako nam se ne čini uvijek tako."

18:47

I was struckpogođen by the factčinjenica that depressiondepresija

461

1115670

1897

Dojmila me se činjenica da
se depresija obično vidi

18:49

is broadlyširoko perceivedpercipiraju to be

462

1117567

1725

18:51

a modernmoderan, WesternZapadni, middle-classsrednje klase thing,

463

1119292

3537

kao bolest suvremene
zapadnjačke srednje klase.

18:54

and I wentotišao to look at how it operatedoperiran

464

1122829

2152

Pošao sam saznati kako ona djeluje
u nizu drugih konteksta,

18:56

in a varietyraznolikost of other contextskontekstima,

465

1124981

2003

18:58

and one of the things I was mostnajviše interestedzainteresiran in

466

1126984

2119

a osobito me zanimala
depresija među vrlo siromašnima.

19:01

was depressiondepresija amongmeđu the indigentsiromaha.

467

1129103

1790

19:02

And so I wentotišao out to try to look at

468

1130893

1781

Krenuo sam istraživati što se radi
za siromašne s depresijom.

19:04

what was beingbiće doneučinio for
poorsiromašan people with depressiondepresija.

469

1132674

2580

19:07

And what I discoveredotkriven is that poorsiromašan people

470

1135254

2158

Otkrio sam da se siromašne
uglavnom ne liječi od depresije.

19:09

are mostlyuglavnom not beingbiće treatedliječi for depressiondepresija.

471

1137412

2557

19:11

DepressionDepresija is the resultproizlaziti of a geneticgenetski vulnerabilityranjivost,

472

1139969

2919

Depresija je posljedica genetske
ranjivosti koja je vjerojatno

19:14

whichkoji is presumablyvjerojatno evenlyravnomjerno
distributeddistribuiran in the populationpopulacija,

473

1142888

3158

ravnomjerno raspoređena populacijom

19:18

and triggeringpokreće circumstancesokolnosti,

474

1146046

1953

i okolnosti koje služe kao okidači,

19:19

whichkoji are likelyVjerojatno to be more severeozbiljan

475

1147999

1903

a koje su vjerojatnije teže
među siromašnim ljudima.

19:21

for people who are impoverishedosiromašen.

476

1149902

1875

Ipak, ispostavlja se da ako imate
divan život, ali stalno se osjećate jadno,

19:23

And yetjoš it turnsokreti out that if you have

477

1151777

2427

19:26

a really lovelylijep life but feel miserablebijedan all the time,

478

1154204

2140

19:28

you think, "Why do I feel like this?

479

1156344

2000

pomislite, "Zašto se osjećam ovako?
Mora da sam depresivan."

19:30

I mustmora have depressiondepresija."

480

1158344

1669

19:32

And you setset out to find treatmentliječenje for it.

481

1160013

1923

I onda si krenete tražiti lijek.

19:33

But if you have a perfectlysavršeno awfulgrozan life,

482

1161936

2093

Ali ako imate grozan život
i čitavo se vrijeme osjećate jadno,

19:36

and you feel miserablebijedan all the time,

483

1164029

1867

19:37

the way you feel is commensurateproporcionalni with your life,

484

1165896

2826

vaši su osjećaji u skladu s vašim životom

19:40

and it doesn't occurdoći to you to think,

485

1168722

1724

i ne padne vam na pamet pomisliti,

19:42

"Maybe this is treatableliječiti."

486

1170446

1783

"Možda se ovo može liječiti."

19:44

And so we have an epidemicepidemija in this countryzemlja

487

1172229

3136

Tako da u ovoj zemlji postoji epidemija

19:47

of depressiondepresija amongmeđu impoverishedosiromašen people

488

1175365

2913

depresije među siromašnima,

19:50

that's not beingbiće pickedizabran up
and that's not beingbiće treatedliječi

489

1178278

2512

koju nitko ne primjećuje i ne liječi

19:52

and that's not beingbiće addressedobratio,

490

1180790

2056

i ne bavi se njome,

19:54

and it's a tragedytragedija of a grandveličanstven ordernarudžba.

491

1182846

2200

i to je tragedija golemih razmjera.

19:57

And so I foundpronađeno an academicakademski

492

1185046

1488

Pronašao sam znanstvenicu

19:58

who was doing a researchistraživanje projectprojekt

493

1186534

1817

koja je provodila istraživački projekt

20:00

in slumspredgrađe outsideizvan of D.C.,

494

1188351

1741

u sirotinjskim četvrtima
izvan Washingtona.

20:02

where she pickedizabran up womenžene who had
come in for other healthzdravlje problemsproblemi

495

1190092

2997

Ženama koje su dolazile
zbog drugih zdravstvenih problema

20:05

and diagnoseddijagnosticira them with depressiondepresija,

496

1193089

1779

dijagnosticirala je depresiju

20:06

and then providedako sixšest monthsmjeseci
of the experimentaleksperimentalan protocolprotokol.

497

1194868

3266

i pružala im 6 mjeseci
eksperimentalnog protokola.

20:10

One of them, LollyŠtapiću, camedošao in,

498

1198134

2329

Evo što je Lolly, jedna od njih,
rekla kad je došla.

20:12

and this is what she said the day she camedošao in.

499

1200463

2297

Usput, radi se o ženi koja
je imala sedmero djece.

20:14

She said, and she was a womanžena, by the way,

500

1202760

3395

20:18

who had sevensedam childrendjeca. She said,

501

1206155

2092

Rekla je, "Imala sam posao,
ali morala sam ga napustiti

20:20

"I used to have a jobposao but I had to give it up because

502

1208247

2651

20:22

I couldn'tne mogu go out of the housekuća.

503

1210898

2060

jer nisam mogla izaći iz kuće.

20:24

I have nothing to say to my childrendjeca.

504

1212958

2228

Ništa nemam za reći svojoj djeci.

20:27

In the morningjutro, I can't wait for them to leavenapustiti,

505

1215186

2767

Ujutro jedva čekam da odu,

20:29

and then I climbpopeti se in bedkrevet and
pullVuci the coverskorice over my headglava,

506

1217953

2990

i onda se popnem u krevet i
pokrijem se preko glave,

20:32

and threetri o'clocksati when they come home,

507

1220943

1646

a tri sata popodne kad dolaze kući
jednostavno dođe prebrzo."

20:34

it just comesdolazi so fastbrzo."

508

1222589

1801

20:36

She said, "I've been takinguzimanje a lot of TylenolTylenol,

509

1224390

2240

Rekla je, "Uzimam puno paracetamola,
bilo čega tako da mogu više spavati.

20:38

anything I can take so that I can sleepspavati more.

510

1226630

2759

20:41

My husbandsuprug has been tellingreći me I'm stupidglup, I'm uglyružan.

511

1229389

3770

Muž mi govori da sam glupa i ružna.

20:45

I wishželja I could stop the painbol."

512

1233159

3505

Da barem mogu zaustaviti bol."

20:48

Well, she was broughtdonio into
this experimentaleksperimentalan protocolprotokol,

513

1236664

2640

Uključena je u eksperimentalni program

20:51

and when I interviewedintervjuiran her sixšest monthsmjeseci laterkasnije,

514

1239304

2308

i kad sam s njom razgovarao za 6 mjeseci,

20:53

she had takenpoduzete a jobposao workingrad in childcareBriga o djeci

515

1241612

4407

bila je zaposlena u vrtiću
za Mornaricu SAD-a,

20:58

for the U.S. NavyRatna mornarica, she had left the abusiveuvredljiv husbandsuprug,

516

1246019

3805

napustila je nasilnog muža,
i rekla mi je,

21:01

and she said to me,

517

1249824

2082

"Moja su djeca sada puno sretnija.

21:03

"My kidsdjeca are so much happiersretniji now."

518

1251906

2369

21:06

She said, "There's one roomsoba in my newnovi placemjesto

519

1254275

1977

U novoj kući imam jednu sobu
za dečke i jednu za cure,

21:08

for the boysdječaci and one roomsoba for the girlsdjevojke,

520

1256252

2608

21:10

but at night, they're just all up on my bedkrevet,

521

1258860

2539

ali navečer su svi na mom krevetu
i svi zajedno radimo zadaću.

21:13

and we're doing homeworkdomaća zadaća
all togetherzajedno and everything.

522

1261399

2612

Jedan od njih želi biti svećenik,
drugi vatrogasac,

21:16

One of them wants to be a preacherpropovjednik,

523

1264011

1673

21:17

one of them wants to be a firefightervatrogasac,

524

1265684

1700

21:19

and one of the girlsdjevojke sayskaže she's going to be a lawyerodvjetnik.

525

1267384

2966

a jedna od cura želi biti odvjetnica.

21:22

They don't cryplakati like they used to,

526

1270350

2005

Više ne plaču i ne svađaju se kao prije.

21:24

and they don't fightborba like they did.

527

1272355

2558

21:26

That's all I need now is my kidsdjeca.

528

1274913

3780

Moja su djeca sad sve što treba.

21:30

Things keep on changingmijenjanje,

529

1278693

1912

Stvari se mijenjaju, to kako se
oblačim, osjećam, ponašam.

21:32

the way I dresshaljina, the way I feel, the way I actčin.

530

1280605

5193

21:37

I can go outsideizvan not beingbiće afraiduplašen anymoreviše,

531

1285798

3687

Više se ne bojim izaći iz kuće

21:41

and I don't think those badloše feelingsosjećaji are comingdolazak back,

532

1289485

3409

i mislim da se oni
loši osjećaji neće vratiti.

21:44

and if it weren'tnisu for DrDr. MirandaMiranda and that,

533

1292894

3035

Da nije bilo dr. Mirande,

21:47

I would still be at home with
the coverskorice pulledizvukao over my headglava,

534

1295929

3617

i dalje bih bila doma
s pokrivačima preko glave,

21:51

if I were still aliveživ at all.

535

1299546

2349

ako bih uopće bila živa.

21:53

I askedpitao the LordGospodin to sendposlati me an angelanđeo,

536

1301895

3732

Molila sam Boga da mi pošalje anđela

21:57

and he heardčuo my prayersmolitve."

537

1305627

4330

i On je čuo moje molitve."

22:01

I was really movedpomaknuto by these experiencesiskustva,

538

1309959

3353

Doista su me taknula ova iskustva

22:05

and I decidedodlučio that I wanted to writepisati about them

539

1313312

2539

i odlučio sam da želim pisati o njima

22:07

not only in a bookrezervirati I was workingrad on,

540

1315851

1379

ne samo u svojoj knjizi,
nego i u novinskom članku.

22:09

but alsotakođer in an articlečlanak,

541

1317230

1311

22:10

and so I got a commissionkomisija from
The NewNovi YorkYork TimesPuta MagazineMagazin

542

1318541

2321

Dogovorio sam s New York Times Magazineom

22:12

to writepisati about depressiondepresija amongmeđu the indigentsiromaha.

543

1320862

2016

da pišem o depresiji kod najsiromašnijih.

22:14

And I turnedokrenut in my storypriča,

544

1322878

1616

Predao sam članak, a onda
me urednica nazvala i rekla,

22:16

and my editorurednik calledzvao me and said,

545

1324494

1596

22:18

"We really can't publishobjaviti this."

546

1326090

1710

"Ovo zbilja ne možemo objaviti."
Pitao sam zašto ne.

22:19

And I said, "Why not?"

547

1327800

1750

22:21

And she said, "It just is too far-fetchednapregnut.

548

1329550

2305

Rekla je, "Previše je nategnuto.

22:23

These people who are sortvrsta of at
the very bottomdno rungžbica of societydruštvo

549

1331855

3778

Ovi ljudi koji su na samom
dnu društvene ljestvice,

22:27

and then they get a fewnekoliko monthsmjeseci of treatmentliječenje

550

1335633

1704

a kad dobiju par mjeseci tretmana,

22:29

and they're virtuallypraktično readyspreman to runtrčanje MorganMorgan StanleyStanley?

551

1337337

2632

praktički su spremni
voditi banku Morgan Stanley?

22:31

It's just too implausiblenevjerojatan."

552

1339969

1854

To je jednostavno preneuvjerljivo."

22:33

She said, I've never even heardčuo of anything like it."

553

1341823

2205

Rekla je, "Nikad nisam čula za takvo što."

22:36

And I said, "The factčinjenica that you've never heardčuo of it

554

1344028

2534

Odgovorio sam, "Činjenica da za to
nikad niste čuli govori da je to vijest."

22:38

is an indicationnaznaka that it is newsvijesti."

555

1346562

3000

22:41

(LaughterSmijeh) (ApplausePljesak)

556

1349562

6134

22:49

"And you are a newsvijesti magazinečasopis."

557

1357317

2494

"A vi ste novine."

22:51

So after a certainsiguran amountiznos of negotiationPregovaranje,

558

1359811

1982

Nakon nešto pregovaranja pristali su.

22:53

they agreeddogovoren to it.

559

1361793

1241

22:55

But I think a lot of what they said

560

1363034

1615

Ali mislim da je to što su rekli
bilo na neki čudan način povezano

22:56

was connectedpovezan in some strangečudan way

561

1364649

2295

s gnušanjem koje ljudi imaju
prema pojmu liječenja.

22:58

to this distasteodvratnost that people still have

562

1366944

2142

23:01

for the ideaideja of treatmentliječenje,

563

1369086

1463

23:02

the notionpojam that somehownekako if we wentotišao out

564

1370549

1882

Čini im se da kad bismo krenuli liječiti
ljude u najsiromašnijim zajednicama,

23:04

and treatedliječi a lot of people in indigentsiromaha communitieszajednice,

565

1372431

2696

23:07

that would be an exploitativeeksploatacijske thing to do,

566

1375127

1898

to bilo izrabljivanje
jer bismo ih mijenjali.

23:09

because we would be changingmijenjanje them.

567

1377025

1642

23:10

There is this falselažan moralmoralan imperativeimperativ

568

1378667

2033

Postoji lažni moralni imperativ
kojim smo okruženi:

23:12

that seemsčini se to be all around us

569

1380700

1789

23:14

that treatmentliječenje of depressiondepresija,

570

1382489

2354

da su liječenje depresije, lijekovi i sl.
izmišljotine i da nisu prirodni.

23:16

the medicationslijekovi and so on, are an artificevještak,

571

1384843

2299

23:19

and that it's not naturalprirodni.

572

1387142

2172

23:21

And I think that's very misguidedu zabludi.

573

1389314

2849

Ja mislim da je to vrlo pogrešno.

23:24

It would be naturalprirodni for people'snarodno teethzubi to fallpad out,

574

1392163

3532

Bilo bi prirodno da ljudima ispadnu zubi,

ali nitko ne huška protiv zubne paste,

23:27

but there is nobodynitko militatingmilitating againstprotiv toothpastepasta za zube,

575

1395695

3330

barem ne u krugovima
u kojima se ja krećem.

23:31

at leastnajmanje not in my circleskrugovi.

576

1399025

2128

23:33

And people then say, "Well, but isn't depressiondepresija

577

1401153

2502

Ljudi onda kažu, "Ali nije li depresija

23:35

partdio of what people are supposedtrebala to experienceiskustvo?

578

1403655

2185

dio onoga što bi ljudi trebali doživjeti?

23:37

Didn't we evolverazviti to have depressiondepresija?

579

1405840

1741

Nismo li tako razvijeni?
Nije li to dio ličnosti?"

23:39

Isn't it partdio of your personalityosoba?"

580

1407581

1907

23:41

To whichkoji I would say, moodraspoloženje is adaptiveprilagodljiv.

581

1409488

2746

Na to odgovaram da je
raspoloženje prilagodljivo.

23:44

BeingSe ableu stanju to have sadnesstuga and fearstrah

582

1412234

3329

Moći doživjeti tugu, strah, radost ,užitak

23:47

and joyradost and pleasurezadovoljstvo

583

1415563

1842

23:49

and all of the other moodsraspoloženja that we have,

584

1417405

1803

i sva druga raspoloženja

23:51

that's incrediblynevjerojatno valuablevrijedan.

585

1419208

2064

neizmjerno je vrijedno.

23:53

And majorglavni depressiondepresija is something that happensdogađa se

586

1421272

3047

A veliki depresivni poremećaj događa se

23:56

when that systemsistem getsdobiva brokenslomljen.

587

1424319

2012

kad se nešto u tom sustavu pokvari.

23:58

It's maladaptivemaladaptivnom.

588

1426331

1717

To je neprilagodljivo."

24:00

People will come to me and say,

589

1428048

1572

Ljudi mi prilaze i kažu,

24:01

"I think, thoughiako, if I just stickštap it out for anotherjoš yeargodina,

590

1429620

2768

"Mislim da ako izdržim još jednu godinu,

24:04

I think I can just get throughkroz this."

591

1432388

2076

izvući ću se iz ovoga."

24:06

And I always say to them, "You maysvibanj get throughkroz it,

592

1434464

2303

I uvijek im kažem, "Možda ćeš se izvući,

24:08

but you'llvi ćete never be 37 again.

593

1436767

2709

ali nikad više nećeš imati 37 godina.

24:11

Life is shortkratak, and that's a wholečitav yeargodina

594

1439476

2550

Život je kratak, a to je cijela godina
koje se misliš odreći.

24:14

you're talkingkoji govori about givingdavanje up.

595

1442026

1956

24:15

Think it throughkroz."

596

1443982

1538

Dobro promisli."

24:17

It's a strangečudan povertysiromaštvo of the Englishengleski languagejezik,

597

1445520

2846

Čudno je to siromaštvo engleskog jezika

24:20

and indeeddoista of manymnogi other languagesjezici,

598

1448366

2108

i mnogih drugih jezika

24:22

that we use this sameisti wordriječ, depressiondepresija,

599

1450474

2218

zbog koje koristimo istu riječ, depresija,

24:24

to describeopisati how a kiddijete feelsosjeća

600

1452692

1805

da opišemo kako se dijete osjeća

24:26

when it rainskiše on his birthdayrođendan,

601

1454497

1712

kad na njegov rođendan pada kiša

24:28

and to describeopisati how somebodyneko feelsosjeća

602

1456209

2528

i da opišemo kako se netko osjeća

24:30

the minuteminuta before they commitpočiniti suicidesamoubistvo.

603

1458737

2454

minutu prije no što počini samoubojstvo.

24:33

People say to me, "Well, is it
continuousstalan with normalnormalan sadnesstuga?"

604

1461191

3105

Ljudi me pitaju je li depresija
na istom kontinuumu kao tuga.

24:36

And I say, in a way it's continuousstalan
with normalnormalan sadnesstuga.

605

1464296

3144

Odgovaram da na neki način
jest dio istog raspona.

24:39

There is a certainsiguran amountiznos of continuitykontinuitet,

606

1467440

2200

Postoji određena količina kontinuiteta,

24:41

but it's the sameisti way there's continuitykontinuitet

607

1469640

1957

isto kao što postoji kontinuitet

24:43

betweenizmeđu havingima an ironželjezo fenceograda outsideizvan your housekuća

608

1471597

1987

između toga da vaša željezna ograda

24:45

that getsdobiva a little rusthrđe spotmjesto

609

1473584

1677

dobije nekoliko hrđavih točkica

24:47

that you have to sandpijesak off and do a little repaintingrepainting,

610

1475261

2746

koje trebate izbrusiti i prebojiti,

24:50

and what happensdogađa se if you leavenapustiti
the housekuća for 100 yearsgodina

611

1478007

2647

i onoga što se dogodi ako
kuću napustite na 100 godina

24:52

and it rustsneće zahrđati throughkroz untildo it's only a pilegomila

612

1480654

2898

i ona toliko zahrđa da postane
samo hrpa narančaste prašine.

24:55

of orangenarančasta dustprah.

613

1483552

1234

24:56

And it's that orangenarančasta dustprah spotmjesto,

614

1484786

2173

Ta narančasta prašnjava mrlja
je problem kojeg pokušavamo riješiti.

24:58

that orangenarančasta dustprah problemproblem,

615

1486959

1789

25:00

that's the one we're settingpostavljanje out to addressadresa.

616

1488748

2989

25:03

So now people say,

617

1491737

2240

Onda ljudi kažu,

25:05

"You take these happysretan pillstablete, and do you feel happysretan?"

618

1493977

2731

"Sad kad uzimaš tabletice za sreću,
jesi li sretan?"

25:08

And I don't.

619

1496708

1886

Nisam.

25:10

But I don't feel sadtužan about havingima to eatjesti lunchručak,

620

1498594

2822

Ali nisam tužan zato što moram ručati,

25:13

and I don't feel sadtužan about my answeringodgovaranje machinemašina,

621

1501416

2836

ni zbog telefonske sekretarice,

25:16

and I don't feel sadtužan about takinguzimanje a showertuš.

622

1504252

2845

ni zbog toga što se moram istuširati.

25:19

I feel more, in factčinjenica, I think,

623

1507097

2854

Zapravo, mislim da osjećam više

25:21

because I can feel sadnesstuga withoutbez nullityništavilo.

624

1509951

2430

jer mogu osjećati tugu bez ništavnosti.

25:24

I feel sadtužan about professionalprofesionalac disappointmentsrazočaranja,

625

1512381

4347

Tužan sam zbog poslovnih razočarenja,

25:28

about damagedoštećen relationshipsodnosa,

626

1516728

2347

narušenih odnosa,

25:31

about globalglobalno warmingzagrijavanje.

627

1519075

2039

globalnog zatopljenja.

25:33

Those are the things that I feel sadtužan about now.

628

1521114

2725

To su stvari zbog kojih sam sada tužan.

25:35

And I said to myselfsebe, well, what is the conclusionzaključak?

629

1523839

2734

I zapitao sam se koji je zaključak.

25:38

How did those people who have better livesživot

630

1526573

2561

Kako su se ljudi koji imaju bolje živote

25:41

even with biggerveći depressiondepresija manageupravljati to get throughkroz?

631

1529134

2554

čak i uz veću depresiju uspjeli izvući?

25:43

What is the mechanismmehanizam of resilienceelastičnost?

632

1531688

2797

Koji je mehanizam otpornosti?

25:46

And what I camedošao up with over time

633

1534485

2084

S vremenom sam dokučio

25:48

was that the people who denyporeći theirnjihov experienceiskustvo,

634

1536569

2916

da neki ljudi negiraju
svoje iskustvo, pa kažu:

25:51

the onesone who say, "I was depresseddepresivno a long time agoprije

635

1539485

2032

"Davno sam bio depresivan
i ne želim o tome razmišljati,

25:53

and I never want to think about it again

636

1541517

1737

25:55

and I'm not going to look at it

637

1543254

1242

neću se za time osvrtati
i jednostavno ću nastaviti živjeti".

25:56

and I'm just going to get on with my life,"

638

1544496

1890

25:58

ironicallyironično, those are the people

639

1546386

1959

Ironično, upravo ti ljudi najviše
robuju tome što imaju.

26:00

who are mostnajviše enslavedporobili by what they have.

640

1548345

2698

26:03

ShuttingZaklopac out the depressiondepresija strengthensjača it.

641

1551043

2564

Potiskivanje depresije samo je jača.
Dok se skrivate od nje, ona raste.

26:05

While you hidesakriti from it, it growsraste.

642

1553607

3280

26:08

And the people who do better

643

1556887

2860

A ljudi koji se oporave

26:11

are the onesone who are ableu stanju to toleratetolerirati the factčinjenica

644

1559747

2599

oni su koji mogu podnijeti činjenicu

26:14

that they have this conditionstanje.

645

1562346

1622

da imaju tu bolest.

26:15

Those who can toleratetolerirati theirnjihov depressiondepresija

646

1563968

2470

Oni koji mogu podnijeti svoju depresiju
oni su koji postanu otporni.

26:18

are the onesone who achievepostići resilienceelastičnost.

647

1566438

1782

26:20

So FrankFrank RussakoffRussakoff said to me,

648

1568220

1783

Tako mi je Frank Russakoff rekao,

26:22

"If I had it again to do over,

649

1570003

1516

"Da mogu sve ponoviti,
vjerojatno to ne bih učinio ovako,

26:23

I supposepretpostaviti I wouldn'tne bi do it this way,

650

1571519

2137

26:25

but in a strangečudan way, I'm gratefulzahvalan

651

1573656

1964

ali na neki neobičan način zahvalan sam
zbog toga što sam proživio.

26:27

for what I've experiencediskusan.

652

1575620

1503

26:29

I'm gladradostan to have been in the hospitalbolnica 40 timesputa.

653

1577123

3817

Drago mi je što sam bio u bolnici 40 puta.

26:32

It taughtučio me so much about love,

654

1580940

2603

To me naučilo puno o ljubavi,

26:35

and my relationshipodnos with my parentsroditelji and my doctorsliječnici

655

1583543

2840

a moj odnos s roditeljima i liječnicima

26:38

has been so preciousdragocjen to me, and will be always."

656

1586383

4389

bio je i uvijek će mi biti dragocjen.

26:42

And MaggieMaggie RobbinsRobbins said,

657

1590772

1926

Maggie Robbins je rekla,

26:44

"I used to volunteerdobrovoljac in an AIDSAIDS-A clinicKlinika,

658

1592698

2989

"Volontirala sam u klinici za AIDS.

26:47

and I would just talk and talk and talk,

659

1595687

3014

Tamo sam pričala i pričala,

26:50

and the people I was dealingbavljenje with

660

1598701

1813

a ljudi s kojima sam radila
nisu baš uzvraćali.

26:52

weren'tnisu very responsiveuzvratni, and I thought,

661

1600514

2067

Mislila sam kako to od njih
nije baš lijepo ili pristojno.

26:54

'That's not very friendlyprijateljski or helpfulkoristan of them.'

662

1602581

3961

26:58

And then I realizedshvatio,

663

1606542

1642

Onda sam shvatila

27:00

I realizedshvatio that they weren'tnisu going to do more

664

1608184

2127

da oni i neće učiniti više od tih
prvih nekoliko minuta ćaskanja.

27:02

than make those first fewnekoliko minutesminuta of smallmali talk.

665

1610311

2387

27:04

It was simplyjednostavno going to be an occasionprigodom

666

1612698

2057

To će jednostavno biti situacija
u kojoj ja nemam AIDS i ne umirem,

27:06

where I didn't have AIDSAIDS-A and I wasn'tnije dyingumiranje,

667

1614755

2878

27:09

but could toleratetolerirati the factčinjenica that they did

668

1617633

2973

ali mogu podnijeti činjenicu
da ga oni imaju i da umiru.

27:12

and they were.

669

1620606

1787

Naše su potrebe naša najveća dobra.

27:14

Our needspotrebe are our greatestnajveći assetsimovina.

670

1622393

3603

27:17

It turnsokreti out I've learnednaučeno to give

671

1625996

2139

Ispostavlja se da sam naučila davati

27:20

all the things I need."

672

1628135

4025

sve ono što je meni potrebno.

27:24

ValuingVrednovanje one'sjedan je depressiondepresija

673

1632160

1691

Dati vrijednost svojoj depresiji

27:25

does not preventspriječiti a relapserelapsa,

674

1633851

2194

ne sprječava njezino ponavljanje,

27:28

but it maysvibanj make the prospectvjerojatnost of relapserelapsa

675

1636045

2661

ali može tu mogućnost,

27:30

and even relapserelapsa itselfsebe easierlakše to toleratetolerirati.

676

1638706

4218

pa čak i samo ponavljanje,
učiniti podnošljivijim.

27:34

The questionpitanje is not so much

677

1642924

2045

Ne radi se toliko o tome da joj nađete
neko veliko značenje

27:36

of findingnalaz great meaningznačenje and decidingodlučujući

678

1644969

2175

i odlučite da je depresija imala smisla.

27:39

your depressiondepresija has been very meaningfulznačajan.

679

1647144

2027

27:41

It's of seekingtraži that meaningznačenje

680

1649171

2171

Radi se o traganju za smislom
i svijesti da će kad se opet pojavi,

27:43

and thinkingmišljenje, when it comesdolazi again,

681

1651342

1804

27:45

"This will be hellishpaklene,

682

1653146

1640

biti pakleno, ali barem ćete
nešto naučiti iz nje.

27:46

but I will learnnaučiti something from it."

683

1654786

2701

27:49

I have learnednaučeno in my ownvlastiti depressiondepresija

684

1657487

2264

Iz vlastite depresije naučio sam

27:51

how bigvelika an emotionemocija can be,

685

1659751

2013

koliko emocija može biti velika,

27:53

how it can be more realstvaran than factsčinjenicama,

686

1661764

3097

kako može biti stvarnija od činjenica

27:56

and I have foundpronađeno that that experienceiskustvo

687

1664861

2949

i otkrio sam da mi je to iskustvo

27:59

has alloweddopušteno me to experienceiskustvo positivepozitivan emotionemocija

688

1667810

2892

omogućilo da pozitivne emocije doživljavam

28:02

in a more intenseintenzivan and more focusedusmjerena way.

689

1670702

3520

intenzivnije i usredotočenije.

28:06

The oppositesuprotan of depressiondepresija is not happinesssreća,

690

1674222

3487

Suprotnost depresiji nije sreća,
nego vitalnost,

28:09

but vitalityvitalnost,

691

1677709

1454

a ovih je dana moj život vitalan,

28:11

and these daysdana, my life is vitalbitan,

692

1679163

2741

28:13

even on the daysdana when I'm sadtužan.

693

1681904

2745

čak i kad sam tužan.

28:16

I feltosjećala that funeralpogreb in my brainmozak,

694

1684649

3313

Osjetio sam taj pogreb u svom mozgu

28:19

and I satsat nextSljedeći to the colossusColossus

695

1687962

2024

i sjedio pored gorostasa

28:21

at the edgerub of the worldsvijet,

696

1689986

2247

na rubu svijeta

28:24

and I have discoveredotkriven

697

1692233

2089

i otkrio sam

28:26

something insideiznutra of myselfsebe

698

1694322

1851

nešto u sebi

28:28

that I would have to call a soulduša

699

1696173

2133

što moram nazvati dušom,

28:30

that I had never formulatedFormulirana
untildo that day 20 yearsgodina agoprije

700

1698306

3756

što nikad prije nisam imenovao
do tog dana prije 20 godina

28:34

when hellpakao camedošao to payplatiti me a surpriseiznenađenje visitposjetiti.

701

1702062

4518

kad me pakao iznenada posjetio.

28:38

I think that while I hatedomrznut beingbiće depresseddepresivno

702

1706580

4098

Iako sam mrzio biti u depresiji

28:42

and would hatemrziti to be depresseddepresivno again,

703

1710678

2334

i mrzio bih da se ponovo pojavi,

28:45

I've foundpronađeno a way to love my depressiondepresija.

704

1713012

2744

našao sam način da
zavolim svoju depresiju.

28:47

I love it because it has forcedprisiljeni me

705

1715756

2025

Volim je jer me natjerala

28:49

to find and clingdržati se to joyradost.

706

1717781

2769

da pronađem radost i držim je se.

28:52

I love it because eachsvaki day I decideodlučiti,

707

1720550

3488

Volim je jer svakog dana odlučim

28:56

sometimesponekad gamelyinvestitora u,

708

1724038

1540

ponekad punim srcem,

28:57

and sometimesponekad againstprotiv the moment'strenutak je reasonrazlog,

709

1725578

2698

a ponekad usprkos trenutnom osjećaju

29:00

to cleaveprilijepiti to the reasonsrazlozi for livingživot.

710

1728276

2578

da se držim onoga za što vrijedi živjeti.

29:02

And that, I think, is a highlyvisoko privilegedprivilegiran raptureushićenja.

711

1730854

4123

A to smatram vrlo dragocjenim zanosom.

29:06

Thank you.

712

1734977

3983

Hvala vam.

29:10

(ApplausePljesak)

713

1738960

3136

Translated by Dea Ajdukovic
Reviewed by Anja Kolobarić

ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology.

Why you should listen

Andrew Solomon is a writer, lecturer and Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University. He is president of PEN American Center. He writes regularly for The New Yorker and the New York Times.

Solomon's newest book, Far and Away: Reporting from the Brink of Change, Seven Continents, Twenty-Five Years was published in April, 2016. His previous book, Far From the Tree: Parents, Children, and the Search for Identity won the National Book Critics Circle award for nonfiction, the Wellcome Prize and 22 other national awards. It tells the stories of parents who not only learn to deal with their exceptional children but also find profound meaning in doing so. It was a New York Times bestseller in both hardcover and paperback editions. Solomon's previous book, The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, won the 2001 National Book Award for Nonfiction, was a finalist for the 2002 Pulitzer Prize and was included in The Times of London's list of one hundred best books of the decade. It has been published in twenty-four languages. Solomon is also the author of the novel A Stone Boat and of The Irony Tower: Soviet Artists in a Time of Glasnost.

Solomon is an activist in LGBT rights, mental health, education and the arts. He is a member of the boards of directors of the National LGBTQ Force and Trans Youth Family Allies. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of Columbia University Medical Center, serves on the National Advisory Board of the Depression Center at the University of Michigan, is a director of Columbia Psychiatry and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. Solomon also serves on the boards of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Yaddo and The Alex Fund, which supports the education of Romani children. He is also a fellow of Berkeley College at Yale University and a member of the New York Institute for the Humanities and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Solomon lives with his husband and son in New York and London and is a dual national. He also has a daughter with a college friend; mother and daughter live in Texas but visit often.

More profile about the speaker
Andrew Solomon | Speaker | TED.com

THE ORIGINAL VIDEO ON TED.COM

Andrew Solomon: Depresija, zajednička tajna | TED Talk | TED.com