ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology.

Why you should listen

Andrew Solomon is a writer, lecturer and Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University. He is president of PEN American Center. He writes regularly for The New Yorker and the New York Times.

Solomon's newest book, Far and Away: Reporting from the Brink of Change, Seven Continents, Twenty-Five Years was published in April, 2016. His previous book, Far From the Tree: Parents, Children, and the Search for Identity won the National Book Critics Circle award for nonfiction, the Wellcome Prize and 22 other national awards. It tells the stories of parents who not only learn to deal with their exceptional children but also find profound meaning in doing so. It was a New York Times bestseller in both hardcover and paperback editions. Solomon's previous book, The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, won the 2001 National Book Award for Nonfiction, was a finalist for the 2002 Pulitzer Prize and was included in The Times of London's list of one hundred best books of the decade. It has been published in twenty-four languages. Solomon is also the author of the novel A Stone Boat and of The Irony Tower: Soviet Artists in a Time of Glasnost.

Solomon is an activist in LGBT rights, mental health, education and the arts. He is a member of the boards of directors of the National LGBTQ Force and Trans Youth Family Allies. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of Columbia University Medical Center, serves on the National Advisory Board of the Depression Center at the University of Michigan, is a director of Columbia Psychiatry and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. Solomon also serves on the boards of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Yaddo and The Alex Fund, which supports the education of Romani children. He is also a fellow of Berkeley College at Yale University and a member of the New York Institute for the Humanities and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Solomon lives with his husband and son in New York and London and is a dual national. He also has a daughter with a college friend; mother and daughter live in Texas but visit often.

More profile about the speaker
Andrew Solomon | Speaker | TED.com

TEDxMet

Andrew Solomon: Depression, the secret we share

Andrew Solomon: Depressão, o segredo que compartilhamos

Filmed: 2013-10-23

Readability: 3.5

10,174,764 views

"O oposto de depressão não é felicidade, e sim vitalidade, e ela parecia fugir de mim naquele momento." Em uma palestra tão eloquente quanto devastadora, o escritor Andrew Solomon nos leva aos cantos mais escuros de sua mente, nos anos em que lutou contra a depressão. Isso o levou a uma reveladora jornada pelo mundo, entrevistando pessoas com depressão, descobrindo, para sua surpresa, que quanto mais ele falava, mais as pessoas queriam contar suas histórias. (Filmado no TEDxMet.)

Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:15

"I felt a funeral in my brain,

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"Senti um féretro em meu cérebro,

00:19

and mourners to and fro

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E carpideiras indo e vindo

00:22

kept treading, treading till I felt

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A pisar, a pisar, até eu sonhar

00:24

that sense was breaking through.

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Meus sentidos fugindo.

00:27

And when they all were seated,

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E quando tudo se sentou,

00:29

a service, like a drum,

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O tambor de um ofício,

00:31

kept beating, beating, till I felt

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Bateu, bateu, até eu sentir

00:34

my mind was going numb.

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Inerte o meu juízo.

00:37

And then I heard them lift a box

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E eu as ouvi, erguida a tampa,

00:39

and creak across my soul

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Rangeram por minha alma com

00:41

with those same boots of lead again,

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Todo o chumbo dos pés, de novo,

00:45

then space began to toll,

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E o espaço dobrou,

00:48

as if the heavens were a bell

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Como se os céus fossem um sino

00:50

and being were an ear,

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E o ser apenas um ouvido,

00:52

and I, and silence, some strange race

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E eu e o silêncio, a estranha raça

00:55

wrecked, solitary, here.

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Só, naufragada, aqui.

00:58

Just then, a plank in reason broke,

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Partiu-se a tábua em minha mente,

01:01

and I fell down and down

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E eu fui cair de chão em chão,

01:05

and hit a world at every plunge,

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E em cada chão havia um mundo

01:07

and finished knowing then."

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E terminei sabendo, então.”
(Tradução: Augusto de Campos)

01:12

We know depression through metaphors.

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Conhecemos a depressão por metáforas.

01:15

Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,

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Emily Dickinson a convertia em linguagem,

01:19

Goya in an image.

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Goya, em imagem.

01:22

Half the purpose of art

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Metade do propósito da arte,

01:24

is to describe such iconic states.

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é descrever esses estados icônicos.

01:27

As for me, I had always thought myself tough,

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No meu caso, sempre pensei ser forte,

01:31

one of the people who could survive

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que sobreviveria,

01:33

if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.

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se fosse para um campo de concentração.

01:36

In 1991, I had a series of losses.

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Em 1991, passei por uma série de perdas.

01:39

My mother died,

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Minha mãe morreu,

01:41

a relationship I'd been in ended,

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vivi o fim de um relacionamento,

01:43

I moved back to the United States

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retornei aos Estados Unidos,

01:45

from some years abroad,

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após anos morando no exterior,

01:47

and I got through all of those experiences intact.

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e passei por tudo isso intacto.

01:50

But in 1994, three years later,

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Mas, em 1994, três anos depois,

01:53

I found myself losing interest in almost everything.

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perdi o interesse por quase tudo.

01:57

I didn't want to do any of the things

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Não queria fazer nada

01:59

I had previously wanted to do,

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do que fazia antes,

02:01

and I didn't know why.

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e não sabia o porquê.

02:03

The opposite of depression

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O oposto de depressão

02:05

is not happiness, but vitality,

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não é felicidade, e sim vitalidade,

02:08

and it was vitality

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e a vitalidade

02:10

that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.

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parecia fugir de mim naquele momento.

02:14

Everything there was to do

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Tudo que eu fazia

02:16

seemed like too much work.

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parecia ser trabalhoso demais.

02:18

I would come home

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Eu chegava em casa,

02:20

and I would see the red light
flashing on my answering machine,

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via a luz da secretária
eletrônica piscando,

02:23

and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,

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e não me animava a saber dos amigos.

02:25

I would think,

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Eu pensava:

02:27

"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."

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“Quanta gente para ligar de volta.”

02:30

Or I would decide I should have lunch,

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Ou decidia almoçar,

02:32

and then I would think, but
I'd have to get the food out

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e aí pensava em ter que pegar a comida,

02:35

and put it on a plate

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colocá-la no prato,

02:37

and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,

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cortá-la, mastigá-la e engoli-la.

02:41

and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.

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e me sentia em uma Via Crucis.

02:45

And one of the things that often gets lost

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Algo que sempre se esquece

02:47

in discussions of depression

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em discussões sobre depressão,

02:49

is that you know it's ridiculous.

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é que sabemos que isso é ridículo.

02:51

You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.

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Sabemos disso, quando a vivenciamos.

02:54

You know that most people manage

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Sabemos que a maioria consegue

02:56

to listen to their messages and eat lunch

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ouvir as mensagens, almoçar,

02:58

and organize themselves to take a shower

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tomar banho

03:00

and go out the front door

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sair de casa,

03:02

and that it's not a big deal,

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e que não é nada demais.

03:03

and yet you are nonetheless in its grip

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Ainda assim, você fica inerte

03:06

and you are unable to figure out any way around it.

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e incapaz de pensar em uma saída.

03:10

And so I began to feel myself doing less

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Assim, comecei a sentir que agia menos,

03:15

and thinking less

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pensava menos,

03:17

and feeling less.

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e sentia menos.

03:19

It was a kind of nullity.

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Era uma espécie de anulação.

03:22

And then the anxiety set in.

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E assim, veio a ansiedade.

03:24

If you told me that I'd have to be

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Se me dissessem que eu ficaria

03:26

depressed for the next month,

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deprimido este mês, diria:

03:28

I would say, "As long I know it'll be
over in November, I can do it."

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“Desde que termine mês que vem, tudo bem.”

03:31

But if you said to me,

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Mas, se me dissessem:

03:32

"You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"

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"Você terá ansiedade aguda por um mês,”

03:35

I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.

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eu preferiria cortar os pulsos.

03:38

It was the feeling all the time

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Era o sentimento constante,

03:40

like that feeling you have if you're walking

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como o de estar andando,

03:42

and you slip or trip

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escorregar ou tropeçar,

03:43

and the ground is rushing up at you,

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e o chão vir a seu encontro,

03:45

but instead of lasting half a
second, the way that does,

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mas em vez de um durar um segundo,

03:48

it lasted for six months.

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ele durou 6 meses.

03:50

It's a sensation of being afraid all the time

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É uma sensação de medo permanente,

03:53

but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.

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mas sem saber do que se tem medo.

03:57

And it was at that point that I began to think

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E foi aí que comecei a pensar

03:59

that it was just too painful to be alive,

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que era muito sofrido viver,

04:03

and that the only reason not to kill oneself

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e a única razão de não me matar,

04:06

was so as not to hurt other people.

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era a de não fazer os outros sofrerem.

04:09

And finally one day, I woke up

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Finalmente, um dia, eu acordei

04:12

and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,

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e pensei que tivera um AVC,

04:14

because I lay in bed completely frozen,

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porque estava deitado
na cama, paralisado,

04:16

looking at the telephone, thinking,

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olhando o telefone, pensando:

"Algo está errado e preciso
pedir socorro”,

04:18

"Something is wrong and I should call for help,"

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04:22

and I couldn't reach out my arm

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e não conseguia mover o braço

04:24

and pick up the phone and dial.

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e alcançar o telefone para ligar.

04:26

And finally, after four full hours
of my lying and staring at it,

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Após quatro longas horas,
imóvel, fixando o telefone,

04:30

the phone rang,

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ele tocou,

04:32

and somehow I managed to pick it up,

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e consegui atendê-lo.

04:34

and it was my father,

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Era meu pai,

04:36

and I said, "I'm in serious trouble.

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e falei: "Estou com um problema sério.

04:39

We need to do something."

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Precisamos fazer algo."

04:41

The next day I started with the medications

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Um dia depois, comecei com os medicamentos

04:44

and the therapy.

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e a terapia.

04:47

And I also started reckoning

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Comecei a me confrontar

04:49

with this terrible question:

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com a terrível pergunta:

04:51

If I'm not the tough person

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"Se não sou forte como pensara,

04:53

who could have made it
through a concentration camp,

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que sobreviveria a um
campo de concentração,

04:56

then who am I?

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então, quem sou eu?

04:57

And if I have to take medication,

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E se tenho que tomar medicamento,

04:59

is that medication making me more fully myself,

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ele fará com que eu seja eu mesmo,

05:03

or is it making me someone else?

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ou outra pessoa?

05:05

And how do I feel about it

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Como me sentirei

05:07

if it's making me someone else?

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se ele me tornar outra pessoa?"

05:09

I had two advantages as I went in to the fight.

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Ao entrar nessa luta,
eu tinha duas vantagens.

05:13

The first is that I knew that, objectively speaking,

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A de que sabia, objetivamente,

05:16

I had a nice life,

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que minha vida era agradável,

05:17

and that if I could only get well,

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e se ficasse bem,

05:19

there was something at the other end

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haveria algo do outro lado

05:21

that was worth living for.

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pelo qual valeria a pena viver.

05:23

And the other was that I had
access to good treatment.

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A outra, era a de ter acesso
a um bom tratamento.

05:26

But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed,

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Apesar disso, eu melhorava e recaía,

05:29

and emerged and relapsed,

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melhorava e recaía,

05:32

and emerged and relapsed,

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melhorava e recaía,

05:35

and finally understood

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e finalmente entendi

05:37

I would have to be on medication

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que tomaria medicamentos

05:39

and in therapy forever.

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e faria terapia para sempre.

05:41

And I thought, "But is it a chemical problem

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Pensei: "É um problema químico

05:44

or a psychological problem?

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ou psicológico?

05:45

And does it need a chemical cure
or a philosophical cure?"

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Precisa de cura química ou filosófica?"

05:49

And I couldn't figure out which it was.

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E não entendia qual seria.

05:51

And then I understood that actually,

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Percebi que, na verdade,

05:54

we aren't advanced enough in either area

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não avançamos muito nessas áreas

05:56

for it to explain things fully.

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para sabermos com precisão.

05:58

The chemical cure and the psychological cure

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Tanto a cura química como a psicológica

06:01

both have a role to play,

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têm seu papel.

06:03

and I also figured out that depression was something

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Também pensei que a depressão era algo

06:06

that was braided so deep into us

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que estava entranhado tão fundo em nós

06:09

that there was no separating it

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que não havia uma separação

06:10

from our character and personality.

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entre caráter e personalidade.

06:13

I want to say that the treatments we have

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Os tratamentos que temos

06:15

for depression are appalling.

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para depressão são lamentáveis.

06:17

They're not very effective.

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Não são muito eficazes,

06:19

They're extremely costly.

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são extremamente caros,

06:21

They come with innumerable side effects.

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provocam inúmeros efeitos colaterais.

06:24

They're a disaster.

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São um desastre.

06:25

But I am so grateful that I live now

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Mas sou grato por viver hoje,

06:28

and not 50 years ago,

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e não 50 anos atrás,

06:30

when there would have been almost nothing

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quando quase nada

06:32

to be done.

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podia ser feito.

06:33

I hope that 50 years hence,

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Espero que daqui a 50 anos,

06:36

people will hear about my treatments

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ao saberem do meu tratamento,

06:37

and be appalled that anyone endured

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as pessoas se espantem

06:40

such primitive science.

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com ciência tão primitiva.

06:42

Depression is the flaw in love.

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Depressão é a imperfeição no amor.

06:47

If you were married to someone and thought,

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Se você fosse casado e pensasse:

06:50

"Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"

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"Se minha esposa morrer,
encontrarei outra",

06:54

it wouldn't be love as we know it.

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não seria amor como o conhecemos.

06:57

There's no such thing as love

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Amor não existe

06:59

without the anticipation of loss,

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sem a antecipação da perda,

07:01

and that specter of despair

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e esse espectro do desespero

07:04

can be the engine of intimacy.

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pode ser o motor da intimidade.

07:08

There are three things people tend to confuse:

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Há três coisas que tendemos a confundir:

07:11

depression, grief and sadness.

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depressão, sentimento de luto e tristeza.

07:14

Grief is explicitly reactive.

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O luto é explicitamente reativo.

07:18

If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy,

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Se você vive uma perda,
sente-se muito infeliz,

07:21

and then, six months later,

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e, seis meses depois,

07:22

you are still deeply sad, but
you're functioning a little better,

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você ainda está muito triste,
mas um pouco melhor,

07:25

it's probably grief,

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provavelmente, é luto.

07:27

and it will probably ultimately resolve itself

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e provavelmente se resolverá

07:29

in some measure.

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de alguma forma.

07:31

If you experience a catastrophic loss,

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Se você vivencia uma perda catastrófica,

07:34

and you feel terrible,

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sente-se péssimo,

07:35

and six months later you can barely function at all,

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e, seis meses depois, continua muito mal,

07:38

then it's probably a depression that was triggered

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talvez seja depressão desencadeada

07:40

by the catastrophic circumstances.

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pelas circunstâncias catastróficas.

07:43

The trajectory tells us a great deal.

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A trajetória nos diz muito.

07:47

People think of depression as being just sadness.

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As pessoas pensam em
depressão apenas como tristeza.

07:50

It's much, much too much sadness,

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Ela é excesso de tristeza,

07:52

much too much grief

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excesso de luto,

07:54

at far too slight a cause.

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por uma causa qualquer.

07:57

As I set out to understand depression,

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Ao me preparar para entender a depressão,

08:00

and to interview people who had experienced it,

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e entrevistar quem a vivera,

08:02

I found that there were people who seemed

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percebi que havia gente que parecia

08:05

on the surface to have what sounded like

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à beira de ter

08:07

relatively mild depression

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uma depressão branda,

08:09

who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.

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e mesmo assim, ficava
incapacitada por ela.

08:13

And there were other people who had what sounded

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E outros tinham algo

08:15

as they described it

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descrito como depressão terrivelmente severa,

08:16

like terribly severe depression

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08:18

who nonetheless had good lives in the interstices

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que viviam bem nos intervalos

08:21

between their depressive episodes.

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dos episódios depressivos.

08:23

And I set out to find out what it is

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Então, planejei descobrir

o que faz com que uns

08:26

that causes some people

193

494271

1603

08:27

to be more resilient than other people.

194

495874

2253

sejam mais resilientes que outros.

08:30

What are the mechanisms

195

498127

1559

Quais são os mecanismos

08:31

that allow people to survive?

196

499686

1844

que os permitem sobreviver?

08:33

And I went out and I interviewed person after person

197

501530

3169

E fui entrevistando pessoas

08:36

who was suffering with depression.

198

504699

2175

que sofriam de depressão.

08:38

One of the first people I interviewed

199

506874

1951

Uma das primeiras entrevistadas,

08:40

described depression

200

508825

1881

descreveu a depressão

08:42

as a slower way of being dead,

201

510706

3261

como um meio mais lento de morrer,

08:45

and that was a good thing for me to hear early on

202

513967

2124

e foi bom ouvir isso logo no início

08:48

because it reminded me

203

516091

1366

porque me fez lembrar

08:49

that that slow way of being dead

204

517457

1999

que esse jeito lento de morrer

08:51

can lead to actual deadness,

205

519456

2035

pode levar à morte real,

08:53

that this is a serious business.

206

521491

2004

que é um negócio sério.

08:55

It's the leading disability worldwide,

207

523495

2659

É a principal doença
incapacitante do mundo,

08:58

and people die of it every day.

208

526154

3030

e as pessoas morrem disso todos os dias.

09:01

One of the people I talked to

209

529184

1769

Conversei com uma pessoa,

09:02

when I was trying to understand this

210

530953

1974

quando tentava entender isso,

09:04

was a beloved friend

211

532927

1668

uma amiga querida

09:06

who I had known for many years,

212

534595

2018

que conhecia há anos,

09:08

and who had had a psychotic episode

213

536613

2542

e tivera um surto psicótico

09:11

in her freshman year of college,

214

539155

1904

no primeiro ano de faculdade,

09:13

and then plummeted into a horrific depression.

215

541059

3056

e mergulhou em uma depressão horrível.

09:16

She had bipolar illness,

216

544115

1426

Ela era bipolar,

09:17

or manic depression, as it was then known.

217

545541

2643

ou maníaco-depressiva,
como assim era chamado.

09:20

And then she did very well

218

548184

2044

E ela ficou muito bem

09:22

for many years on lithium,

219

550228

1708

por anos, tomando lítio,

09:23

and then eventually,

220

551936

1375

e depois,

09:25

she was taken off her lithium

221

553311

1960

parou de tomá-lo,

09:27

to see how she would do without it,

222

555271

1835

para ver como ficaria sem ele,

09:29

and she had another psychosis,

223

557106

1975

e teve outro surto,

09:31

and then plunged into the worst depression

224

559081

2338

e se afundou na maior depressão

09:33

that I had ever seen

225

561419

1872

que eu já vira.

09:35

in which she sat in her parents' apartment,

226

563291

3015

Ela ficava no apartamento dos pais,

09:38

more or less catatonic, essentially without moving,

227

566306

3077

meio catatônica, imóvel,

09:41

day after day after day.

228

569383

2482

dia após dia.

09:43

And when I interviewed her about
that experience some years later --

229

571865

3217

Eu a entrevistei sobre essa
experiência, anos depois...

09:47

she's a poet and psychotherapist
named Maggie Robbins —

230

575082

3331

Ela é poeta e psicoterapeuta,
chama-se Maggie Robbins...

09:50

when I interviewed her, she said,

231

578413

3233

Quando a entrevistei, ela disse:

09:53

"I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone'

232

581646

3384

"Eu cantava 'Where Have
All The Flowers Gone'

09:57

over and over to occupy my mind.

233

585030

3210

o tempo todo, para ocupar minha mente.

10:00

I was singing to blot out the
things my mind was saying,

234

588240

3135

Cantava para expulsar
o que minha mente dizia,

10:03

which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody.

235

591375

4490

que era: ‘Você não é nada.
Você não é ninguém.

10:07

You don't even deserve to live.'

236

595865

2826

Nem merece viver.'

10:10

And that was when I really started thinking

237

598691

2178

E comecei seriamente a pensar

10:12

about killing myself."

238

600869

2213

em me matar."

10:15

You don't think in depression

239

603082

1908

Com depressão, você não pensa

10:16

that you've put on a gray veil

240

604990

2137

que pôs um véu cinza

10:19

and are seeing the world through the haze

241

607127

1980

e vê o mundo através da névoa

10:21

of a bad mood.

242

609107

1894

do mal humor.

10:23

You think that the veil has been taken away,

243

611001

2720

Você pensa que o véu foi retirado,

10:25

the veil of happiness,

244

613721

1922

o véu da felicidade,

10:27

and that now you're seeing truly.

245

615643

2424

e que agora você vê de verdade.

10:30

It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive

246

618067

2964

É mais fácil ajudar esquizofrênicos
que percebem

10:33

that there's something foreign inside of them

247

621031

1811

existir algo estranho neles

10:34

that needs to be exorcised,

248

622842

2187

que precisa ser exorcizado,

10:37

but it's difficult with depressives,

249

625029

2164

mas é difícil com deprimidos,

10:39

because we believe we are seeing the truth.

250

627193

3847

pois acreditamos ver a verdade.

10:43

But the truth lies.

251

631040

2947

Mas a verdade mente...

10:45

I became obsessed with that sentence:

252

633987

1998

Fiquei obcecado com essa frase:

10:47

"But the truth lies."

253

635985

2375

"Mas a verdade mente."

10:50

And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people,

254

638360

2453

Descobri, ao conversar com deprimidos,

10:52

that they have many delusional perceptions.

255

640813

2682

que eles têm muitas percepções ilusórias.

10:55

People will say, "No one loves me."

256

643495

1667

Alguém diz: "Ninguém me ama."

10:57

And you say, "I love you,

257

645162

1651

E você diz: "Eu o amo,

10:58

your wife loves you, your mother loves you."

258

646813

2522

sua esposa o ama, sua mãe o ama."

11:01

You can answer that one pretty readily,

259

649335

1923

Você responde isso na hora,

11:03

at least for most people.

260

651258

1665

ao menos, a maioria.

11:04

But people who are depressed will also say,

261

652923

2267

Mas o deprimido também diz:

11:07

"No matter what we do,

262

655190

1705

"Não importa o que façamos,

11:08

we're all just going to die in the end."

263

656895

2273

vamos todos morrer, afinal."

11:11

Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion

264

659168

2203

Ou diz: "Não há comunhão verdadeira

11:13

between two human beings.

265

661371

1653

entre dois seres humanos.

11:15

Each of us is trapped in his own body."

266

663024

2576

Estamos presos em nosso próprio corpo.”

11:17

To which you have to say,

267

665600

1849

A quem você terá que dizer:

11:19

"That's true,

268

667449

1321

"É verdade,

11:20

but I think we should focus right now

269

668770

1818

mas agora devemos focar

11:22

on what to have for breakfast."

270

670588

1896

o que comer no café da manhã."

11:24

(Laughter)

271

672484

2185

(Risos)

11:26

A lot of the time,

272

674669

1669

Muitas vezes,

11:28

what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,

273

676338

2896

o que expressam não é
doença, e sim insight,

11:31

and one comes to think what's really extraordinary

274

679234

2657

e chegamos a pensar que o extraordinário

11:33

is that most of us know about
those existential questions

275

681891

2934

é que a maioria sabe dessas
perguntas existenciais

11:36

and they don't distract us very much.

276

684825

2290

e elas não nos distraem tanto assim.

11:39

There was a study I particularly liked

277

687115

2159

Gostei de um estudo,

11:41

in which a group of depressed

278

689274

1680

em que um grupo de deprimidos

11:42

and a group of non-depressed people

279

690954

1901

e um de não deprimidos

11:44

were asked to play a video game for an hour,

280

692855

2623

tinham que jogar videogame por uma hora,

11:47

and at the end of the hour,

281

695478

1813

e, ao final do tempo,

11:49

they were asked how many little monsters

282

697291

1651

respondiam quantos monstrinhos

11:50

they thought they had killed.

283

698942

1864

eles pensavam ter matado.

11:52

The depressive group was usually accurate

284

700806

2212

Os deprimidos tinham uma precisão

11:55

to within about 10 percent,

285

703018

2058

em torno de 10%,

11:57

and the non-depressed people

286

705076

1471

e os não deprimidos

11:58

guessed between 15 and 20 times as many

287

706547

3545

falaram um número 15 a 20 vezes maior

12:02

little monsters — (Laughter) —

288

710092

1742

de monstrinhos — (Risos) —

12:03

as they had actually killed.

289

711834

4111

do que o que tinham efetivamente matado.

12:07

A lot of people said, when I chose
to write about my depression,

290

715945

3066

Ao escrever sobre minha depressão, diziam

12:11

that it must be very difficult

291

719011

1769

que deve ser muito difícil

12:12

to be out of that closet, to have people know.

292

720780

3124

sair do armário, as pessoas saberem...

12:15

They said, "Do people talk to you differently?"

293

723904

2200

Perguntavam: "Falam diferente com você?"

12:18

And I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently.

294

726104

2072

E dizia: "Sim, falam diferente.

12:20

They talk to me differently insofar

295

728176

1914

Elas falam diferente, na medida

12:22

as they start telling me about their experience,

296

730090

2790

em que me contam suas experiências,

12:24

or their sister's experience,

297

732880

1835

ou a da irmã,

12:26

or their friend's experience.

298

734715

1774

ou do amigo.

12:28

Things are different because now I know

299

736489

2292

É diferente porque agora sei

12:30

that depression is the family secret

300

738781

2681

que depressão é o segredo de família

12:33

that everyone has.

301

741462

2077

que todo mundo tem."

12:35

I went a few years ago to a conference,

302

743539

3628

Há alguns anos, fui a uma conferência,

12:39

and on Friday of the three-day conference,

303

747167

2653

e, no primeiro dia do evento,

12:41

one of the participants took me aside, and she said,

304

749820

2891

uma participante me
chamou de lado e disse:

12:44

"I suffer from depression and

305

752711

3405

"Sofro de depressão

12:48

I'm a little embarrassed about it,

306

756116

2769

e fico um pouco envergonhada com isso,

12:50

but I've been taking this medication,

307

758885

2103

mas tomo esse medicamento,

12:52

and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"

308

760988

2948

e queria saber sua opinião."

12:55

And so I did my best to give
her such advice as I could.

309

763936

2834

Tentei aconselhá-la da melhor forma.

12:58

And then she said, "You know,

310

766770

1720

Então, ela disse: "Sabe,

13:00

my husband would never understand this.

311

768490

2791

meu marido jamais entenderia.

13:03

He's really the kind of guy to whom
this wouldn't make any sense,

312

771281

2573

Ele não entende o sentido disso,

13:05

so I just, you know, it's just between us."

313

773854

2867

então, sabe, fica só entre nós."

13:08

And I said, "Yes, that's fine."

314

776721

1786

E falei: "Certo, tudo bem."

13:10

On Sunday of the same conference,

315

778507

2109

No último dia da conferência,

13:12

her husband took me aside,

316

780616

3044

o marido dela me chamou de lado,

13:15

and he said, "My wife wouldn't think

317

783660

1694

e disse: "Minha esposa pensará

13:17

that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,

318

785354

2435

que não sou homem de verdade se souber

13:19

but I've been dealing with this depression

319

787789

2466

que estou lidando com depressão

13:22

and I'm taking some medication,

320

790255

1354

e tomo medicamento,

13:23

and I wondered what you think?"

321

791609

2505

e gostaria da sua opinião."

13:26

They were hiding

322

794114

1423

Eles escondiam

13:27

the same medication in two different places

323

795537

2215

medicamentos iguais em locais distintos

13:29

in the same bedroom.

324

797752

2645

do mesmo quarto.

13:32

And I said that I thought

325

800397

2021

Eu disse que pensava

13:34

communication within the marriage

326

802418

1684

que a comunicação no casamento

13:36

might be triggering some of their problems.

327

804102

2014

estava causando problemas.

13:38

(Laughter)

328

806116

4191

(Risos)

13:42

But I was also struck

329

810307

1655

Eu também fiquei surpreso

13:43

by the burdensome nature

330

811962

1806

pela natureza opressiva

13:45

of such mutual secrecy.

331

813768

2373

de tal segredo mútuo.

13:48

Depression is so exhausting.

332

816141

1885

A depressão é muito exaustiva.

13:50

It takes up so much of your time and energy,

333

818026

2768

Toma muito tempo e energia,

13:52

and silence about it,

334

820794

1504

e o silêncio

13:54

it really does make the depression worse.

335

822298

2731

agrava a depressão.

13:57

And then I began thinking about all the ways

336

825029

1733

E, comecei a pensar

sobre o que faz as pessoas melhorarem.

13:58

people make themselves better.

337

826762

1966

14:00

I'd started off as a medical conservative.

338

828728

2439

Comecei com a medicina conservadora.

14:03

I thought there were a few
kinds of therapy that worked,

339

831167

2372

Eu achava que havia algumas terapias
que funcionavam,

14:05

it was clear what they were --

340

833539

1809

estava claro quais eram...

14:07

there was medication,

341

835348

1644

havia medicamentos,

14:08

there were certain psychotherapies,

342

836992

1476

certas psicoterapias,

14:10

there was possibly electroconvulsive treatment,

343

838468

2445

talvez, tratamento eletroconvulsivo,

14:12

and that everything else was nonsense.

344

840913

2675

e que o restante era besteira.

14:15

But then I discovered something.

345

843588

1832

Então, descobri uma coisa.

14:17

If you have brain cancer,

346

845420

1752

Se você tem câncer no cérebro,

14:19

and you say that standing on your head

347

847172

1472

e diz que ficar de ponta-cabeça

14:20

for 20 minutes every morning makes you feel better,

348

848644

2995

20 minutos todo dia
faz você se sentir melhor,

14:23

it may make you feel better,

349

851639

1514

talvez se sinta melhor,

14:25

but you still have brain cancer,

350

853153

1588

mas ainda tem câncer,

14:26

and you'll still probably die from it.

351

854741

2289

e ainda poderá morrer.

14:29

But if you say that you have depression,

352

857030

2512

Mas se você diz que tem depressão,

14:31

and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day

353

859542

2105

e que ficar de ponta-cabeça de manhã

14:33

makes you feel better, then it's worked,

354

861647

2484

faz você melhorar, então, funcionou,

14:36

because depression is an illness of how you feel,

355

864131

2360

pois é a doença de como você se sente,

14:38

and if you feel better,

356

866491

1609

e se você se sente melhor,

14:40

then you are effectively not depressed anymore.

357

868100

2830

então, não está mais deprimido.

14:42

So I became much more tolerant

358

870930

2033

Assim, tornei-me mais tolerante

14:44

of the vast world of alternative treatments.

359

872963

2925

ao vasto mundo de
tratamentos alternativos.

14:47

And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters

360

875888

2384

E recebo cartas, centenas de cartas,

14:50

from people writing to tell me
about what's worked for them.

361

878272

2516

de gente que diz o que funciona.

14:52

Someone was asking me backstage today

362

880788

2201

Hoje, perguntaram-me nos bastidores

14:54

about meditation.

363

882989

1463

sobre meditação.

14:56

My favorite of the letters that I got

364

884452

2465

Minha carta favorita

14:58

was the one that came from a woman

365

886917

1474

é a de uma mulher

15:00

who wrote and said that she had tried therapy,

366

888391

2207

que disse que tentou terapia,

15:02

she had tried medication,
she had tried pretty much everything,

367

890598

2387

medicamentos, tentou quase tudo.

15:04

and she had found a solution
and hoped I would tell the world,

368

892985

2837

Achou uma solução e desejava
que o mundo soubesse:

15:07

and that was making little things from yarn.

369

895822

3812

fazer coisinhas de lã.

15:11

(Laughter)

370

899634

2999

(Risos)

15:14

She sent me some of them. (Laughter)

371

902633

3524

Ela me enviou algumas peças. (Risos)

15:18

And I'm not wearing them right now.

372

906157

3688

Não estou usando uma hoje.

15:21

I suggested to her that she also should look up

373

909845

2515

Sugeri que ela desse uma olhada

15:24

obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.

374

912360

4048

em comportamento obsessivo
compulsivo no manual.

15:28

And yet, when I went to look
at alternative treatments,

375

916408

3128

Ainda assim, ao pesquisar
tratamentos alternativos,

15:31

I also gained perspective on other treatments.

376

919536

2908

ganhei perspectiva sobre
vários tipos de tratamentos.

15:34

I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal

377

922444

2903

Passei por um exorcismo tribal, no Senegal,

15:37

that involved a great deal of ram's blood

378

925347

2013

que envolvia sangue de carneiro,

15:39

and that I'm not going to detail right now,

379

927360

2062

e não entrarei em detalhes,

15:41

but a few years afterwards I was in Rwanda

380

929422

2000

mas, anos depois, fui à Ruanda

15:43

working on a different project,

381

931422

1758

num projeto diferente,

15:45

and I happened to describe
my experience to someone,

382

933180

2796

e descrevi minha experiência a alguém,

15:47

and he said, "Well, you know,

383

935976

1760

que disse: "Bem, sabe,

15:49

that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,

384

937736

1820

aqui na África Oriental

15:51

and our rituals are in some ways very different,

385

939556

1834

os rituais são muito diferentes,

15:53

but we do have some rituals that have something

386

941390

2013

mas temos rituais com algo

15:55

in common with what you're describing."

387

943403

1987

em comum com o que descreveu."

15:57

And I said, "Oh." And he said, "Yes," he said,

388

945390

1663

Falei: "Oh". E ele: "Sim.

15:59

"but we've had a lot of trouble with
Western mental health workers,

389

947053

2642

Mas houve problemas
com profissionais da saúde do Ocidente,

16:01

especially the ones who came
right after the genocide."

390

949695

2757

os que vieram após o genocídio."

16:04

And I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"

391

952452

2327

Eu disse: "Que tipo de problema?"

16:06

And he said, "Well,

392

954779

1546

Ele disse: "Bem,

16:08

they would do this bizarre thing.

393

956325

2664

eles faziam algo bizarro.

16:10

They didn't take people out in the sunshine

394

958989

1885

Ninguém tomava banho de sol

16:12

where you begin to feel better.

395

960874

1700

para se sentir melhor.

16:14

They didn't include drumming or music
to get people's blood going.

396

962574

3094

Não incluíam batuques
ou música para animá-los.

16:17

They didn't involve the whole community.

397

965668

1842

Não envolviam a comunidade.

16:19

They didn't externalize the depression

398

967510

1775

Não externavam a depressão

16:21

as an invasive spirit.

399

969285

1433

como um espírito invasor.

16:22

Instead what they did was they took people

400

970718

2631

Ao contrário, levavam as pessoas,

16:25

one at a time into dingy little rooms

401

973349

2628

uma a uma, para quartinhos escuros

16:27

and had them talk for an hour

402

975977

1343

e elas falavam por uma hora

16:29

about bad things that had happened to them."

403

977320

2230

sobre o que acontecera de ruim."

16:31

(Laughter) (Applause)

404

979550

5460

(Risos) (Aplausos)

16:37

He said, "We had to ask them to leave the country."

405

985010

2362

Falou: "Pedimos que
deixassem o país."

16:39

(Laughter)

406

987372

3057

(Risos)

16:42

Now at the other end of alternative treatments,

407

990429

2444

Na outra ponta dos
tratamentos alternativos...

16:44

let me tell you about Frank Russakoff.

408

992873

2035

vou falar sobre Frank Russakoff.

16:46

Frank Russakoff had the worst depression

409

994908

3053

Ele tinha a pior depressão

16:49

perhaps that I've ever seen in a man.

410

997961

2915

que eu talvez tenha visto em um homem.

16:52

He was constantly depressed.

411

1000876

1993

Ele estava sempre deprimido.

16:54

He was, when I met him, at a point at which

412

1002869

2141

Eu o conheci em uma época

16:57

every month he would have electroshock treatment.

413

1005010

3158

em que todo mês ele tinha
tratamento de choque.

17:00

Then he would feel sort of disoriented for a week.

414

1008168

2575

Ficava meio desorientado por uma semana.

17:02

Then he would feel okay for a week.

415

1010743

1803

Depois, ficava bem uma semana.

17:04

Then he would have a week of going downhill.

416

1012546

1700

Tinha outra semana de piora.

17:06

And then he would have another
electroshock treatment.

417

1014246

2685

E uma semana de tratamento de choque.

17:08

And he said to me when I met him,

418

1016931

1415

Quando o vi, ele disse:

17:10

"It's unbearable to go through my weeks this way.

419

1018346

2552

"É insuportável passar semanas assim.

17:12

I can't go on this way,

420

1020898

1507

Não aguento mais,

17:14

and I've figured out how I'm going to end it

421

1022405

2264

e já sei como acabar com isso

17:16

if I don't get better.

422

1024669

1557

se eu não melhorar.

17:18

But," he said to me, "I heard about a protocol

423

1026226

2708

Aí, ele disse: "Soube de um protocolo

17:20

at Mass General for a procedure called

424

1028934

2223

no hospital, um procedimento,

17:23

a cingulotomy, which is a brain surgery,

425

1031157

2026

cingulotomia, cirurgia no cérebro,

17:25

and I think I'm going to give that a try."

426

1033183

2571

e acho que vou tentar."

17:27

And I remember being amazed at that point

427

1035754

1954

Lembro de ter me espantado

17:29

to think that someone

428

1037708

1300

por pensar que alguém

17:31

who clearly had so many bad experiences

429

1039008

3221

com tantas experiências ruins,

17:34

with so many different treatments

430

1042229

1859

com tantos tratamentos,

17:36

still had buried in him somewhere enough optimism

431

1044088

3122

ainda tinha dentro de si algum otimismo

17:39

to reach out for one more.

432

1047210

2550

para almejar mais um.

17:41

And he had the cingulotomy,

433

1049760

2180

Ele fez a cingulotomia,

17:43

and it was incredibly successful.

434

1051940

2041

e foi incrivelmente bem sucedida.

17:45

He's now a friend of mine.

435

1053981

1493

Ele agora é meu amigo.

17:47

He has a lovely wife and two beautiful children.

436

1055474

3492

Tem uma esposa adorável
e dois filhos lindos.

17:50

He wrote me a letter the Christmas after the surgery,

437

1058966

2949

Ele me escreveu uma carta,
após a cirurgia,

17:53

and he said,

438

1061915

1189

e disse:

17:55

"My father sent me two presents this year,

439

1063104

2407

"Meu pai me deu dois presentes este ano.

17:57

First, a motorized C.D. rack from The Sharper Image

440

1065511

2602

Uma torre de CD, da "The Sharper Image",

18:00

that I didn't really need,

441

1068113

1421

de que eu não precisava,

18:01

but I knew he was giving it to me to celebrate

442

1069534

2097

mas sei que foi para comemorar o fato

18:03

the fact that I'm living on my own

443

1071631

1728

de eu viver por conta própria,

18:05

and have a job I seem to love.

444

1073359

2047

com um emprego que adoro.

18:07

And the other present

445

1075406

1561

O outro presente

18:08

was a photo of my grandmother,

446

1076967

1576

era uma foto da minha avó,

18:10

who committed suicide.

447

1078543

2252

que cometeu suicídio.

18:12

As I unwrapped it, I began to cry,

448

1080795

2935

Ao abrir o presente, comecei a chorar,

18:15

and my mother came over and said,

449

1083730

1880

e minha mãe disse:

18:17

'Are you crying because of the
relatives you never knew?'

450

1085610

3315

'Está chorando pelos parentes
que não conheceu?'

18:20

And I said, 'She had the same disease I have.'

451

1088925

4088

Falei: 'Ela teve a mesma doença que eu.'

18:25

I'm crying now as I write to you.

452

1093013

2581

Choro agora ao lhe escrever.

18:27

It's not that I'm so sad, but I get overwhelmed,

453

1095594

3595

Não estou muito triste,
e sim emocionado,

18:31

I think, because I could have killed myself,

454

1099189

2221

pois, poderia quase ter me matado,

18:33

but my parents kept me going,

455

1101410

1703

mas meu pais me deram força,

18:35

and so did the doctors,

456

1103113

1749

assim como os médicos,

18:36

and I had the surgery.

457

1104862

1854

e fiz a cirurgia.

18:38

I'm alive and grateful.

458

1106716

2815

Estou vivo e agradecido.

18:41

We live in the right time,

459

1109531

2260

Vivemos na época certa,

18:43

even if it doesn't always feel like it."

460

1111791

3879

mesmo que nem sempre pareça."

18:47

I was struck by the fact that depression

461

1115670

1897

Fiquei perplexo que a depressão

18:49

is broadly perceived to be

462

1117567

1725

seja amplamente entendida

18:51

a modern, Western, middle-class thing,

463

1119292

3537

como algo moderno, ocidental,
de classe média,

18:54

and I went to look at how it operated

464

1122829

2152

e fui ver como ela funciona

18:56

in a variety of other contexts,

465

1124981

2003

em vários outros contextos,

18:58

and one of the things I was most interested in

466

1126984

2119

e algo que me interessou muito

19:01

was depression among the indigent.

467

1129103

1790

foi a depressão entre indigentes.

19:02

And so I went out to try to look at

468

1130893

1781

Fui dar uma olhada

19:04

what was being done for
poor people with depression.

469

1132674

2580

no que se faz para pobres
com depressão.

19:07

And what I discovered is that poor people

470

1135254

2158

Descobri que eles

19:09

are mostly not being treated for depression.

471

1137412

2557

geralmente não são tratados de depressão.

19:11

Depression is the result of a genetic vulnerability,

472

1139969

2919

Depressão resulta
da vulnerabilidade genética,

19:14

which is presumably evenly
distributed in the population,

473

1142888

3158

distribuída igualitariamente na população,

19:18

and triggering circumstances,

474

1146046

1953

e circunstâncias desencadeadoras,

19:19

which are likely to be more severe

475

1147999

1903

que costumam ser mais severas

19:21

for people who are impoverished.

476

1149902

1875

em pessoas mais pobres.

19:23

And yet it turns out that if you have

477

1151777

2427

Se você tem uma vida agradável

19:26

a really lovely life but feel miserable all the time,

478

1154204

2140

mas se sente infeliz o tempo todo,

19:28

you think, "Why do I feel like this?

479

1156344

2000

pensa: "Por que me sinto assim?

19:30

I must have depression."

480

1158344

1669

Devo estar com depressão."

19:32

And you set out to find treatment for it.

481

1160013

1923

E busca tratamento.

19:33

But if you have a perfectly awful life,

482

1161936

2093

Mas, se tem uma vida horrível,

19:36

and you feel miserable all the time,

483

1164029

1867

e sente-se péssimo o tempo todo,

19:37

the way you feel is commensurate with your life,

484

1165896

2826

você se sente de acordo com sua vida,

19:40

and it doesn't occur to you to think,

485

1168722

1724

e não lhe ocorre pensar:

19:42

"Maybe this is treatable."

486

1170446

1783

"Talvez exista tratamento."

19:44

And so we have an epidemic in this country

487

1172229

3136

E assim temos uma epidemia neste país,

19:47

of depression among impoverished people

488

1175365

2913

de depressão entre os mais pobres

19:50

that's not being picked up
and that's not being treated

489

1178278

2512

que não é diagnosticada, tratada,

19:52

and that's not being addressed,

490

1180790

2056

e nem combatida,

19:54

and it's a tragedy of a grand order.

491

1182846

2200

o que é uma grande tragédia.

19:57

And so I found an academic

492

1185046

1488

Conheci uma acadêmica

19:58

who was doing a research project

493

1186534

1817

que fazia projeto de pesquisa

20:00

in slums outside of D.C.,

494

1188351

1741

em favelas nos arredores
de Washington,

20:02

where she picked up women who had
come in for other health problems

495

1190092

2997

com mulheres com outras queixas de saúde,

20:05

and diagnosed them with depression,

496

1193089

1779

e diagnosticava a depressão,

20:06

and then provided six months
of the experimental protocol.

497

1194868

3266

e dava-lhes seis meses
do protocolo experimental.

20:10

One of them, Lolly, came in,

498

1198134

2329

Uma delas, Lolly, chegou,

20:12

and this is what she said the day she came in.

499

1200463

2297

e eis o que disse...

20:14

She said, and she was a woman, by the way,

500

1202760

3395

Ela é uma mulher

20:18

who had seven children. She said,

501

1206155

2092

que teve sete filhos. Disse:

20:20

"I used to have a job but I had to give it up because

502

1208247

2651

"Eu tinha emprego, mas desisti dele

porque não conseguia sair de casa.

20:22

I couldn't go out of the house.

503

1210898

2060

20:24

I have nothing to say to my children.

504

1212958

2228

Não tenho assunto com meus filhos.

20:27

In the morning, I can't wait for them to leave,

505

1215186

2767

De manhã, mal espero eles saírem,

20:29

and then I climb in bed and
pull the covers over my head,

506

1217953

2990

volto para a cama,
cubro-me com o cobertor,

20:32

and three o'clock when they come home,

507

1220943

1646

e quando voltam às 15:00,

20:34

it just comes so fast."

508

1222589

1801

sinto que o tempo voou."

20:36

She said, "I've been taking a lot of Tylenol,

509

1224390

2240

Ela disse: "Tomo um monte de Tylenol,

20:38

anything I can take so that I can sleep more.

510

1226630

2759

qualquer coisa para dormir mais.

20:41

My husband has been telling me I'm stupid, I'm ugly.

511

1229389

3770

Meu marido diz que sou burra, feia.

20:45

I wish I could stop the pain."

512

1233159

3505

Queria muito acabar com a dor."

20:48

Well, she was brought into
this experimental protocol,

513

1236664

2640

Ela veio para o protocolo experimental,

20:51

and when I interviewed her six months later,

514

1239304

2308

e quando a entrevistei seis meses depois,

20:53

she had taken a job working in childcare

515

1241612

4407

ela trabalhava numa creche

20:58

for the U.S. Navy, she had left the abusive husband,

516

1246019

3805

da Marinha, deixara o marido ofensor,

21:01

and she said to me,

517

1249824

2082

e disse:

21:03

"My kids are so much happier now."

518

1251906

2369

"Meus filhos estão mais felizes.

21:06

She said, "There's one room in my new place

519

1254275

1977

Há um quarto em minha nova casa

21:08

for the boys and one room for the girls,

520

1256252

2608

para os meninos e outro para as meninas,

21:10

but at night, they're just all up on my bed,

521

1258860

2539

mas, à noite, vão todos para a minha cama,

21:13

and we're doing homework
all together and everything.

522

1261399

2612

e fazemos dever de casa juntos.

21:16

One of them wants to be a preacher,

523

1264011

1673

Um menino quer ser pastor,

21:17

one of them wants to be a firefighter,

524

1265684

1700

o outro bombeiro,

21:19

and one of the girls says she's going to be a lawyer.

525

1267384

2966

e uma menina quer ser advogada.

21:22

They don't cry like they used to,

526

1270350

2005

Não choram mais como antes,

21:24

and they don't fight like they did.

527

1272355

2558

nem brigam como antes.

21:26

That's all I need now is my kids.

528

1274913

3780

Tudo que preciso agora são meus filhos.

21:30

Things keep on changing,

529

1278693

1912

As coisas estão mudando:

21:32

the way I dress, the way I feel, the way I act.

530

1280605

5193

o jeito como me visto, sinto e ajo.

21:37

I can go outside not being afraid anymore,

531

1285798

3687

Agora, consigo sair sem sentir medo.

21:41

and I don't think those bad feelings are coming back,

532

1289485

3409

Acho que os sentimentos
ruins não voltarão,

21:44

and if it weren't for Dr. Miranda and that,

533

1292894

3035

e se não fosse por Dra. Miranda,

21:47

I would still be at home with
the covers pulled over my head,

534

1295929

3617

ainda estaria em casa, com
o cobertor sobre a cabeça,

21:51

if I were still alive at all.

535

1299546

2349

se é que ainda estaria viva.

21:53

I asked the Lord to send me an angel,

536

1301895

3732

Pedi ao Senhor que me enviasse um anjo,

21:57

and he heard my prayers."

537

1305627

4330

e Ele escutou minhas preces."

22:01

I was really moved by these experiences,

538

1309959

3353

Fiquei muito emocionado
com esses relatos,

22:05

and I decided that I wanted to write about them

539

1313312

2539

e decidi escrever sobre eles

22:07

not only in a book I was working on,

540

1315851

1379

não apenas num livro,

22:09

but also in an article,

541

1317230

1311

mas também num artigo,

22:10

and so I got a commission from
The New York Times Magazine

542

1318541

2321

e, a pedido da
"The New York Times Magazine"

22:12

to write about depression among the indigent.

543

1320862

2016

escrevi sobre depressão entre indigentes.

22:14

And I turned in my story,

544

1322878

1616

Entreguei a história,

22:16

and my editor called me and said,

545

1324494

1596

e minha editora me disse:

22:18

"We really can't publish this."

546

1326090

1710

"Não podemos publicar."

22:19

And I said, "Why not?"

547

1327800

1750

E falei: "Por que não?"

22:21

And she said, "It just is too far-fetched.

548

1329550

2305

Ela disse: "É inverossímil.

22:23

These people who are sort of at
the very bottom rung of society

549

1331855

3778

Essas pessoas que estão
na camada mais baixa da sociedade,

22:27

and then they get a few months of treatment

550

1335633

1704

fazem uns meses de tratamento

22:29

and they're virtually ready to run Morgan Stanley?

551

1337337

2632

e podem comandar a Bolsa de Valores?

22:31

It's just too implausible."

552

1339969

1854

É muito implausível."

22:33

She said, I've never even heard of anything like it."

553

1341823

2205

Falou: “Nunca soube de algo assim."

22:36

And I said, "The fact that you've never heard of it

554

1344028

2534

E falei: "O fato de você não saber

22:38

is an indication that it is news."

555

1346562

3000

indica que é notícia."

22:41

(Laughter) (Applause)

556

1349562

6134

(Risos) (Aplausos)

22:49

"And you are a news magazine."

557

1357317

2494

"E vocês são uma revista de notícias."

22:51

So after a certain amount of negotiation,

558

1359811

1982

Depois de alguma negociação,

22:53

they agreed to it.

559

1361793

1241

eles aceitaram.

22:55

But I think a lot of what they said

560

1363034

1615

Penso que o que disseram

22:56

was connected in some strange way

561

1364649

2295

está ligado, de uma forma estranha,

22:58

to this distaste that people still have

562

1366944

2142

à aversão que as pessoas ainda têm

23:01

for the idea of treatment,

563

1369086

1463

à ideia do tratamento,

23:02

the notion that somehow if we went out

564

1370549

1882

à noção de que se fôssemos

23:04

and treated a lot of people in indigent communities,

565

1372431

2696

tratar muita gente nas
comunidades carentes,

23:07

that would be an exploitative thing to do,

566

1375127

1898

seria uma exploração.

23:09

because we would be changing them.

567

1377025

1642

Estaríamos modificando-as.

23:10

There is this false moral imperative

568

1378667

2033

Há essa falsa moral imperativa

23:12

that seems to be all around us

569

1380700

1789

a nossa volta,

23:14

that treatment of depression,

570

1382489

2354

de que tratamento de depressão,

23:16

the medications and so on, are an artifice,

571

1384843

2299

e medicamentos são um artifício,

23:19

and that it's not natural.

572

1387142

2172

que não é natural.

23:21

And I think that's very misguided.

573

1389314

2849

Acho que é um grande equívoco.

23:24

It would be natural for people's teeth to fall out,

574

1392163

3532

Seria natural que os dentes caíssem,

23:27

but there is nobody militating against toothpaste,

575

1395695

3330

mas ninguém milita contra a pasta dental,

23:31

at least not in my circles.

576

1399025

2128

não que eu saiba.

23:33

And people then say, "Well, but isn't depression

577

1401153

2502

As pessoas dizem: “Mas a depressão

23:35

part of what people are supposed to experience?

578

1403655

2185

não é parte do que devemos vivenciar?

23:37

Didn't we evolve to have depression?

579

1405840

1741

Não evoluímos para ter depressão?

23:39

Isn't it part of your personality?"

580

1407581

1907

Não é parte da personalidade?"

23:41

To which I would say, mood is adaptive.

581

1409488

2746

Eu diria: o humor é adaptável.

23:44

Being able to have sadness and fear

582

1412234

3329

Ser capaz de sentir tristeza, medo,

23:47

and joy and pleasure

583

1415563

1842

alegria, prazer

23:49

and all of the other moods that we have,

584

1417405

1803

e todos os outros humores

23:51

that's incredibly valuable.

585

1419208

2064

é muito valioso.

23:53

And major depression is something that happens

586

1421272

3047

Depressão severa é algo que acontece

23:56

when that system gets broken.

587

1424319

2012

quando esse sistema se rompe,

23:58

It's maladaptive.

588

1426331

1717

fica mal ajustado.

24:00

People will come to me and say,

589

1428048

1572

As pessoas me dizem:

24:01

"I think, though, if I just stick it out for another year,

590

1429620

2768

"Penso que, se ficar firme por mais um ano,

24:04

I think I can just get through this."

591

1432388

2076

consigo me livrar dela."

24:06

And I always say to them, "You may get through it,

592

1434464

2303

Sempre digo: "Talvez consiga,

24:08

but you'll never be 37 again.

593

1436767

2709

mas jamais terá 37 anos de novo.

24:11

Life is short, and that's a whole year

594

1439476

2550

A vida é curta, é mais um ano inteiro,

24:14

you're talking about giving up.

595

1442026

1956

do qual você desistirá.

24:15

Think it through."

596

1443982

1538

Pense nisso."

24:17

It's a strange poverty of the English language,

597

1445520

2846

É uma pobreza estranha da língua inglesa,

24:20

and indeed of many other languages,

598

1448366

2108

e de tantas outras,

24:22

that we use this same word, depression,

599

1450474

2218

que usemos a mesma palavra, depressão,

24:24

to describe how a kid feels

600

1452692

1805

ao descrever como uma criança se sente

24:26

when it rains on his birthday,

601

1454497

1712

se chove no seu aniversário,

24:28

and to describe how somebody feels

602

1456209

2528

e descrever como alguém se sente

24:30

the minute before they commit suicide.

603

1458737

2454

um minuto antes de cometer suicídio.

24:33

People say to me, "Well, is it
continuous with normal sadness?"

604

1461191

3105

Perguntam: "A tristeza normal é contínua?"

24:36

And I say, in a way it's continuous
with normal sadness.

605

1464296

3144

E digo, de um modo,
a tristeza normal é contínua.

24:39

There is a certain amount of continuity,

606

1467440

2200

Há uma certa continuidade,

24:41

but it's the same way there's continuity

607

1469640

1957

assim como há continuidade,

24:43

between having an iron fence outside your house

608

1471597

1987

entre uma cerca de ferro,

24:45

that gets a little rust spot

609

1473584

1677

com um ponto de ferrugem

24:47

that you have to sand off and do a little repainting,

610

1475261

2746

que você lixa e repinta,

24:50

and what happens if you leave
the house for 100 years

611

1478007

2647

e o que ocorre se você
sai de casa por 100 anos,

24:52

and it rusts through until it's only a pile

612

1480654

2898

é que a cerca enferruja até virar

24:55

of orange dust.

613

1483552

1234

uma pilha de pó.

24:56

And it's that orange dust spot,

614

1484786

2173

É esse ponto de ferrugem,

24:58

that orange dust problem,

615

1486959

1789

esse ponto de problema,

25:00

that's the one we're setting out to address.

616

1488748

2989

a que nos referimos.

25:03

So now people say,

617

1491737

2240

Agora as pessoas dizem:

25:05

"You take these happy pills, and do you feel happy?"

618

1493977

2731

"Você toma uma pílula da felicidade
e fica feliz?"

25:08

And I don't.

619

1496708

1886

Não fico.

25:10

But I don't feel sad about having to eat lunch,

620

1498594

2822

Mas não fico triste por ter que almoçar,

25:13

and I don't feel sad about my answering machine,

621

1501416

2836

não fico triste
pela secretária eletrônica,

25:16

and I don't feel sad about taking a shower.

622

1504252

2845

nem por tomar banho.

25:19

I feel more, in fact, I think,

623

1507097

2854

Sinto mais, na verdade,

25:21

because I can feel sadness without nullity.

624

1509951

2430

porque não me sinto
anulado pela tristeza.

25:24

I feel sad about professional disappointments,

625

1512381

4347

Sinto-me triste com
decepções profissionais,

25:28

about damaged relationships,

626

1516728

2347

com relacionamentos ruins,

25:31

about global warming.

627

1519075

2039

com o aquecimento global.

25:33

Those are the things that I feel sad about now.

628

1521114

2725

Essas são as coisas
que me entristecem no momento.

25:35

And I said to myself, well, what is the conclusion?

629

1523839

2734

Disse a mim mesmo: "Qual é a conclusão?

25:38

How did those people who have better lives

630

1526573

2561

Como as pessoas que têm vidas melhores,

25:41

even with bigger depression manage to get through?

631

1529134

2554

mesmo com depressão
mais grave, saíram dela?

25:43

What is the mechanism of resilience?

632

1531688

2797

Qual é o mecanismo da resiliência?"

25:46

And what I came up with over time

633

1534485

2084

Cheguei à conclusão

25:48

was that the people who deny their experience,

634

1536569

2916

de que quem renega sua experiência,

25:51

the ones who say, "I was depressed a long time ago

635

1539485

2032

e diz: "Estive deprimido há muito tempo

25:53

and I never want to think about it again

636

1541517

1737

e nunca mais quero pensar

25:55

and I'm not going to look at it

637

1543254

1242

ou saber disso,

25:56

and I'm just going to get on with my life,"

638

1544496

1890

e vou apenas seguir com a vida",

25:58

ironically, those are the people

639

1546386

1959

ironicamente, essas são as pessoas

26:00

who are most enslaved by what they have.

640

1548345

2698

mais escravizadas pelo que têm.

26:03

Shutting out the depression strengthens it.

641

1551043

2564

Afastar a depressão a fortalece.

26:05

While you hide from it, it grows.

642

1553607

3280

Ao se esconder dela, ela cresce.

26:08

And the people who do better

643

1556887

2860

E as pessoas que se dão melhor

26:11

are the ones who are able to tolerate the fact

644

1559747

2599

são as capazes de suportar o fato

26:14

that they have this condition.

645

1562346

1622

de terem essa condição.

26:15

Those who can tolerate their depression

646

1563968

2470

Aqueles que consegue aceitar a depressão

26:18

are the ones who achieve resilience.

647

1566438

1782

são os que encontram resiliência.

26:20

So Frank Russakoff said to me,

648

1568220

1783

Frank Russakoff me disse:

26:22

"If I had it again to do over,

649

1570003

1516

"Se tivesse que fazer de novo,

26:23

I suppose I wouldn't do it this way,

650

1571519

2137

acho que não faria desse jeito,

26:25

but in a strange way, I'm grateful

651

1573656

1964

mas, ainda assim, sou grato

26:27

for what I've experienced.

652

1575620

1503

pelo que vivenciei.

26:29

I'm glad to have been in the hospital 40 times.

653

1577123

3817

Sou grato pelas 40 idas ao hospital.

26:32

It taught me so much about love,

654

1580940

2603

Aprendi muito sobre o amor,

26:35

and my relationship with my parents and my doctors

655

1583543

2840

e a relação com meus pais e médicos

26:38

has been so precious to me, and will be always."

656

1586383

4389

é preciosa para mim e sempre será."

26:42

And Maggie Robbins said,

657

1590772

1926

Maggie Robbins disse:

26:44

"I used to volunteer in an AIDS clinic,

658

1592698

2989

"Eu era voluntária em uma clínica de AIDS,

26:47

and I would just talk and talk and talk,

659

1595687

3014

e eu falava e falava,

26:50

and the people I was dealing with

660

1598701

1813

e lidava com pessoas

26:52

weren't very responsive, and I thought,

661

1600514

2067

não muito receptivas, e pensava:

26:54

'That's not very friendly or helpful of them.'

662

1602581

3961

'Elas não são muito
simpáticas ou prestativas.'

26:58

And then I realized,

663

1606542

1642

Aí compreendi

27:00

I realized that they weren't going to do more

664

1608184

2127

que elas não se empenhariam

27:02

than make those first few minutes of small talk.

665

1610311

2387

além daqueles minutos de conversa fiada.

27:04

It was simply going to be an occasion

666

1612698

2057

Era apenas uma ocasião

27:06

where I didn't have AIDS and I wasn't dying,

667

1614755

2878

em que eu não tinha AIDS,
e não estava morrendo,

27:09

but could tolerate the fact that they did

668

1617633

2973

mas poderia suportar
o fato de que elas tinham

27:12

and they were.

669

1620606

1787

e morreriam.

27:14

Our needs are our greatest assets.

670

1622393

3603

Nossas necessidades são
nosso bem maior.

27:17

It turns out I've learned to give

671

1625996

2139

Aprendi a dar

27:20

all the things I need."

672

1628135

4025

tudo o que eu preciso."

27:24

Valuing one's depression

673

1632160

1691

Valorizar a nossa depressão

27:25

does not prevent a relapse,

674

1633851

2194

não previne recaída,

27:28

but it may make the prospect of relapse

675

1636045

2661

mas pode fazer a perspectiva da recaída

27:30

and even relapse itself easier to tolerate.

676

1638706

4218

ou mesmo a recaída em si,
mais fácil de suportar.

27:34

The question is not so much

677

1642924

2045

A questão não é tanto

27:36

of finding great meaning and deciding

678

1644969

2175

encontrar grande significado e decidir

27:39

your depression has been very meaningful.

679

1647144

2027

que sua depressão significa muito.

27:41

It's of seeking that meaning

680

1649171

2171

É buscar esse significado

27:43

and thinking, when it comes again,

681

1651342

1804

e pensar quando ela voltar:

27:45

"This will be hellish,

682

1653146

1640

"Vai ser um inferno,

27:46

but I will learn something from it."

683

1654786

2701

mas aprenderei algo."

27:49

I have learned in my own depression

684

1657487

2264

Aprendi com minha própria depressão

27:51

how big an emotion can be,

685

1659751

2013

como uma emoção pode ser imensa,

27:53

how it can be more real than facts,

686

1661764

3097

como ela pode ser mais real do que fatos,

27:56

and I have found that that experience

687

1664861

2949

e descobri que essa experiência

27:59

has allowed me to experience positive emotion

688

1667810

2892

me permite vivenciar emoção positiva

28:02

in a more intense and more focused way.

689

1670702

3520

de um jeito mais intenso e focado.

28:06

The opposite of depression is not happiness,

690

1674222

3487

O oposto de depressão não é felicidade,

28:09

but vitality,

691

1677709

1454

e sim vitalidade,

28:11

and these days, my life is vital,

692

1679163

2741

e, atualmente, minha vida é vital,

28:13

even on the days when I'm sad.

693

1681904

2745

mesmo nos dias em que estou triste.

28:16

I felt that funeral in my brain,

694

1684649

3313

Senti aquele féretro no meu cérebro,

28:19

and I sat next to the colossus

695

1687962

2024

e sentei-me próximo ao colosso,

28:21

at the edge of the world,

696

1689986

2247

à beira do mundo,

28:24

and I have discovered

697

1692233

2089

e descobri

28:26

something inside of myself

698

1694322

1851

algo dentro de mim,

28:28

that I would have to call a soul

699

1696173

2133

que chamo de alma,

28:30

that I had never formulated
until that day 20 years ago

700

1698306

3756

que eu nunca elaborara até
aquele dia, 20 anos atrás,

28:34

when hell came to pay me a surprise visit.

701

1702062

4518

quando o diabo me fez
uma visita surpresa.

28:38

I think that while I hated being depressed

702

1706580

4098

Acho que ao odiar estar deprimido,

28:42

and would hate to be depressed again,

703

1710678

2334

e odiaria novamente,

28:45

I've found a way to love my depression.

704

1713012

2744

descobri um jeito de amar
minha depressão.

28:47

I love it because it has forced me

705

1715756

2025

Eu a amo por ela ter me forçado

28:49

to find and cling to joy.

706

1717781

2769

a buscar alegria e a me agarrar a ela.

28:52

I love it because each day I decide,

707

1720550

3488

Eu a amo porque, todos os dias, eu decido,

28:56

sometimes gamely,

708

1724038

1540

às vezes com bravura,

28:57

and sometimes against the moment's reason,

709

1725578

2698

e outras, contra a razão do momento,

29:00

to cleave to the reasons for living.

710

1728276

2578

agarrar-me às razões de viver.

29:02

And that, I think, is a highly privileged rapture.

711

1730854

4123

E isso é um grande privilégio.

29:06

Thank you.

712

1734977

3983

Obrigado.

(Aplausos)

29:10

(Applause)

713

1738960

3136

Translated by Viviane Ferraz Matos
Reviewed by Nadja Nathan

ABOUT THE SPEAKER

Andrew Solomon - Writer
Andrew Solomon writes about politics, culture and psychology.

Why you should listen

Andrew Solomon is a writer, lecturer and Professor of Clinical Psychology at Columbia University. He is president of PEN American Center. He writes regularly for The New Yorker and the New York Times.

Solomon's newest book, Far and Away: Reporting from the Brink of Change, Seven Continents, Twenty-Five Years was published in April, 2016. His previous book, Far From the Tree: Parents, Children, and the Search for Identity won the National Book Critics Circle award for nonfiction, the Wellcome Prize and 22 other national awards. It tells the stories of parents who not only learn to deal with their exceptional children but also find profound meaning in doing so. It was a New York Times bestseller in both hardcover and paperback editions. Solomon's previous book, The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, won the 2001 National Book Award for Nonfiction, was a finalist for the 2002 Pulitzer Prize and was included in The Times of London's list of one hundred best books of the decade. It has been published in twenty-four languages. Solomon is also the author of the novel A Stone Boat and of The Irony Tower: Soviet Artists in a Time of Glasnost.

Solomon is an activist in LGBT rights, mental health, education and the arts. He is a member of the boards of directors of the National LGBTQ Force and Trans Youth Family Allies. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of Columbia University Medical Center, serves on the National Advisory Board of the Depression Center at the University of Michigan, is a director of Columbia Psychiatry and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. Solomon also serves on the boards of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Yaddo and The Alex Fund, which supports the education of Romani children. He is also a fellow of Berkeley College at Yale University and a member of the New York Institute for the Humanities and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Solomon lives with his husband and son in New York and London and is a dual national. He also has a daughter with a college friend; mother and daughter live in Texas but visit often.

More profile about the speaker
Andrew Solomon | Speaker | TED.com

THE ORIGINAL VIDEO ON TED.COM

Andrew Solomon: Depressão, o segredo que compartilhamos | TED Talk | TED.com