TEDYouth 2014
Jaap de Roode: How butterflies self-medicate
Jaap de Roode: Kako se leptiri sami liječe
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Poput nas, leptiri monarsi ponekad se razbole zahvaljujući parazitima. Biolog Jaap de Roode je proučavajući letire primjetio nešto zanimljivo – zaražene ženke leptira polažu jaja na posebne vrste biljaka koje pomažu potomstvu izbjeći razboljevanje. Kako znaju koje biljke izabrati? Mislite o tome kao drugi dio "leptirovog efekta" – koji bi nas mogao naučiti kako pronaći nove lijekove za ljudske bolesti.
Jaap de Roode - Biologist
Jaap de Roode studies the ecology and evolution of parasites, focusing on those that attack the monarch butterfly. Full bio
Jaap de Roode studies the ecology and evolution of parasites, focusing on those that attack the monarch butterfly. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So infectious diseases, right?
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Zarazne bolesti, zar ne?
00:13
Infectious diseases
are still the main cause
are still the main cause
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Zarazne bolesti su još uvjek glavni uzrok
00:15
of human suffering and death
around the world.
around the world.
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ljudskih patnji i smrti u svijetu.
00:18
Every year, millions of people die
of diseases such as T.B., malaria, HIV,
of diseases such as T.B., malaria, HIV,
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Godišnje milijuni ljudi umru od bolesti
poput tuberkuloze, malarije, HIV – a,
poput tuberkuloze, malarije, HIV – a,
00:23
around the world
and even in the United States.
and even in the United States.
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širom svijeta, čak i u SAD – u.
00:25
Every year, thousands of Americans
die of seasonal flu.
die of seasonal flu.
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Svake godine tisuće Amerikanaca
umru od sezonske gripe.
umru od sezonske gripe.
00:29
Now of course, humans,
we are creative. Right?
we are creative. Right?
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Naravno, mi ljudi smo inovativni, zar ne?
00:31
We have come up with ways to protect
ourselves against these diseases.
ourselves against these diseases.
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Pronašli smo načine da se
zaštitimo od tih bolesti.
zaštitimo od tih bolesti.
00:34
We have drugs and vaccines.
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Imamo lijekove i cijepiva.
00:36
And we're conscious --
we learn from our experiences
we learn from our experiences
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Svjesni smo -- učimo iz iskustava
00:39
and come up with creative solutions.
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i pronalazimo kreativna riješenja.
00:41
We used to think we're alone in this,
but now we know we're not.
but now we know we're not.
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Prije smo mislili da smo sami u tome,
sada znamo da nismo.
sada znamo da nismo.
00:44
We're not the only medical doctors.
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Nismo mi jedini liječnici.
00:46
Now we know that there's a lot of animals
out there that can do it too.
out there that can do it too.
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Sada znamo da mnoge životinje
mogu čini isto.
mogu čini isto.
00:49
Most famous, perhaps, chimpanzees.
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Najpoznatiji primjer su čimpanze.
00:51
Not so much different from us,
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Ne toliko različite od nas,
00:52
they can use plants
to treat their intestinal parasites.
to treat their intestinal parasites.
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koriste biljke u liječenju
crijevnih parazita.
crijevnih parazita.
00:55
But the last few decades have shown us
that other animals can do it too:
that other animals can do it too:
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Posljednjih desetljeća smo spoznali da
se i druge životinje mogu liječiti:
se i druge životinje mogu liječiti:
00:59
elephants, porcupines,
sheep, goats, you name it.
sheep, goats, you name it.
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slonovi, koze, dikobrazi,
ovce su neki primjeri.
ovce su neki primjeri.
01:02
And even more interesting than that
is that recent discoveries are telling us
is that recent discoveries are telling us
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Još zanimljivija su
nedavna otkrića koja govore
nedavna otkrića koja govore
01:06
that insects and other little animals with
smaller brains can use medication too.
smaller brains can use medication too.
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da insekti i druge male životinje,
sa još manjim mozgovima koriste lijekove.
sa još manjim mozgovima koriste lijekove.
01:11
The problem with infectious diseases,
as we all know,
as we all know,
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Problem sa zaraznim bolestima,
kao što znamo,
kao što znamo,
01:14
is that pathogens continue to evolve,
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je stalno evoluiranje patogena,
01:16
and a lot of the drugs
that we have developed
that we have developed
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i mnogi lijekovi koje smo razvili
01:18
are losing their efficacy.
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gube učinkovitost.
01:19
And therefore, there is this great need
to find new ways to discover drugs
to find new ways to discover drugs
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Stoga, postoji velika potreba pronaći
nove načine otkrivanja lijekova
nove načine otkrivanja lijekova
01:24
that we can use against our diseases.
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koje možemo koristiti
protiv naših bolesti.
protiv naših bolesti.
01:26
Now, I think that we
should look at these animals,
should look at these animals,
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Mislim da bi smo trebali
pogledati ove životinje,
pogledati ove životinje,
01:28
and we can learn from them
how to treat our own diseases.
how to treat our own diseases.
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i učiti od njih kako
liječiti vlastite bolesti.
liječiti vlastite bolesti.
01:32
As a biologist, I have been studying
monarch butterflies for the last 10 years.
monarch butterflies for the last 10 years.
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Kao biolog pručavao sam leptire monarhe
posljednjih 10 godina.
posljednjih 10 godina.
01:36
Now, monarchs are extremely famous
for their spectacular migrations
for their spectacular migrations
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Monarsi su posebice poznati po
svojim spektakularnim migracijama
svojim spektakularnim migracijama
01:39
from the U.S. and Canada
down to Mexico every year,
down to Mexico every year,
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iz SAD – a i Kanade u
Meksiko svake godine,
Meksiko svake godine,
01:43
where millions of them come together,
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kada se milijuni njih okupe,
01:45
but it's not why I started studying them.
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ali to nije razlog zašto sam
ih počeo proučavati.
ih počeo proučavati.
01:47
I study monarchs because they get sick.
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Monarhe proučavam jer se razboljevaju.
01:50
They get sick like you.
They get sick like me.
They get sick like me.
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Razbole se poput vas ili poput mene.
01:52
And I think what they do
can tell us a lot about drugs
can tell us a lot about drugs
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Pomislio sam da ono što čine nam
može reći puno o lijekovima
može reći puno o lijekovima
01:55
that we can develop for humans.
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koje možemo razviti za potrebe ljudi.
01:57
Now, the parasites
that monarchs get infected with
that monarchs get infected with
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Paraziti kojima se monarsi zaražavaju
01:59
are called ophryocystis elektroscirrha --
a mouthful.
a mouthful.
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se zovu Ophryocystis elektroscirrha,
težak naziv.
težak naziv.
02:03
What they do is they produce spores,
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One proizvode spore,
02:05
millions of spores
on the outside of the butterfly
on the outside of the butterfly
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milijune spora na vanjskoj strani leptira
02:07
that are shown as little specks
in between the scales of the butterfly.
in between the scales of the butterfly.
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koje se vide kao sitne točkice
između ljuskica leptira.
između ljuskica leptira.
02:11
And this is really detrimental
to the monarch.
to the monarch.
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Vrlo su štetne za leptira.
02:13
It shortens their lifespan,
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Skraćuju im životni vijek,
02:15
it reduces their ability to fly,
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smanjuju mogućnost leta,
02:17
it can even kill them
before they're even adults.
before they're even adults.
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mogu ih ubiti prije nego
postanu odrasle jedinke.
postanu odrasle jedinke.
02:19
Very detrimental parasite.
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Vrlo štetan prazit.
02:21
As part of my job, I spend a lot of time
in the greenhouse growing plants,
in the greenhouse growing plants,
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Kao dio posla, provodim dosta vremena
u stakleniku uzgajajući biljke,
u stakleniku uzgajajući biljke,
02:25
and the reason for this is that monarchs
are extremely picky eaters.
are extremely picky eaters.
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razlog tomu je što su monarsi
vrlo izbirljivi po pitanju hrane.
vrlo izbirljivi po pitanju hrane.
02:29
They only eat milkweed as larvae.
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Kao larve se hrane samo mlječikom.
02:31
Luckily, there are several
species of milkweed that they can use,
species of milkweed that they can use,
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Srećom postoji nekoliko vrsta
mlječika koje možemo koristiti,
mlječika koje možemo koristiti,
02:34
and all these milkweeds
have cardenolides in them.
have cardenolides in them.
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a sve te vrste imaju kardenolide u sebi.
02:36
These are chemicals that are toxic.
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To su vrlo toksični spojevi.
02:38
They're toxic to most animals,
but not to monarchs.
but not to monarchs.
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Toksični su mnogim životinjama,
ali ne i monarsima.
ali ne i monarsima.
02:41
In fact, monarchs
can take up the chemicals,
can take up the chemicals,
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Zapravo, monarsi upijaju spojeve
02:43
put it in their own bodies,
and it makes them toxic
and it makes them toxic
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ugrađuju ih u tijelo,
čineći sebe toksičnima
čineći sebe toksičnima
02:45
against their predators, such as birds.
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za grabežljivce poput ptica.
02:48
And what they do, then,
is advertise this toxicity
is advertise this toxicity
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Ono što sljedeće čine je
oglašavanje toksičnosti
oglašavanje toksičnosti
02:50
through their beautiful
warning colorations
warning colorations
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putem lijepih boja upozorenja
02:52
with this orange, black and white.
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narančaste, crne i bijele.
02:54
So what I did during my job
is grow plants in the greenhouse,
is grow plants in the greenhouse,
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U stakleniku sam kao dio posla uzgajao
02:58
different ones, different milkweeds.
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različite biljke, različite mlječike.
03:00
Some were toxic, including
the tropical milkweed,
the tropical milkweed,
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Neke su otrovne, poput tropske mlječike,
03:02
with very high concentrations
of these cardenolides.
of these cardenolides.
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jer sadrži velike količine kardenolida.
03:06
And some were not toxic.
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Druge pak nisu toksične.
03:07
And then I fed them to monarchs.
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Potom sam hranio monarhe njima.
03:09
Some of the monarchs were healthy.
They had no disease.
They had no disease.
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Neki od monarha su bili zdravi,
bez bolesti.
bez bolesti.
03:12
But some of the monarchs were sick,
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Neki su bili bolesni,
03:14
and what I found is that
some of these milkweeds are medicinal,
some of these milkweeds are medicinal,
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ono što sam pronašao jest da su
neke od tih mlječika ljekovite,
neke od tih mlječika ljekovite,
03:17
meaning they reduce the disease symptoms
in the monarch butterflies,
in the monarch butterflies,
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točnije umanjuju simptome
bolesti u leptira,
bolesti u leptira,
03:20
meaning these monarchs can live longer
when they are infected
when they are infected
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što rezultira duljim životom zaraženih leptira
03:23
when feeding on these medicinal plants.
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ako se hrane tim ljekovitim biljkama.
03:25
And when I found this, I had this idea,
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Kada sam došao do otkrića dobio sam ideju,
03:28
and a lot of people said
it was a crazy idea,
it was a crazy idea,
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mnogi su rekli da je ideja luda,
03:30
but I thought,
what if monarchs can use this?
what if monarchs can use this?
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pomislio sam što ako monarsi
koriste tu ljekovitost?
koriste tu ljekovitost?
03:32
What if they can use these plants
as their own form of medicine?
as their own form of medicine?
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Što ako mogu koristiti te biljke
kao vlastiti oblik lijeka?
kao vlastiti oblik lijeka?
03:35
What if they can act as medical doctors?
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Što ako se ponašaju kao vlastiti liječnici?
03:38
So my team and I
started doing experiments.
started doing experiments.
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Stoga smo tim i ja počeli
s eksperimentima.
s eksperimentima.
03:40
In the first types of experiments,
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U prvom tipu eksperimenta,
03:42
we had caterpillars,
and gave them a choice:
and gave them a choice:
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gusjenicama smo dali izbor:
03:44
medicinal milkweed versus
non-medicinal milkweed.
non-medicinal milkweed.
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ljekovite i neljekovite mlječike.
03:47
And then we measured how much they ate
of each species over their lifetime.
of each species over their lifetime.
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Potom smo mjerili koliko su
jeli pojedine vrste tokom života.
jeli pojedine vrste tokom života.
03:51
And the result, as so often
in science, was boring:
in science, was boring:
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Rezultat, kako često biva
u znanosti, je dosadan:
u znanosti, je dosadan:
03:54
Fifty percent of their food was medicinal.
Fifty percent was not.
Fifty percent was not.
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polovica hrane je ljekovita, polovica nije.
03:58
These caterpillars didn't do
anything for their own welfare.
anything for their own welfare.
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Gusjenice nisu činile ništa
po pitanju vlastitog zdravlja.
po pitanju vlastitog zdravlja.
04:02
So then we moved on to adult butterflies,
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Stoga smo se prebacili na odrasle leptire,
04:04
and we started asking the question
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i počeli postavljati pitanja
04:06
whether it's the mothers
that can medicate their offspring.
that can medicate their offspring.
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može li majka davati lijek
svojim potomcima?
svojim potomcima?
04:09
Can the mothers lay their eggs
on medicinal milkweed
on medicinal milkweed
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Može li majka poleći
jaja na ljekovite mlječike
jaja na ljekovite mlječike
04:12
that will make their
future offspring less sick?
future offspring less sick?
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I hoće li to potomke učiniti
manje bolesnima?
manje bolesnima?
04:15
We have done these experiments now
over several years,
over several years,
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Te eksperimente smo
provodili nekoliko godina,
provodili nekoliko godina,
04:18
and always get the same results.
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i uvijek dobili iste rezultate.
04:20
What we do is we put
a monarch in a big cage,
a monarch in a big cage,
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Monarhe smo stavili u veliki kavez,
04:22
a medicinal plant on one side,
a non-medicinal plant on the other side,
a non-medicinal plant on the other side,
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sa ljekovitom biljkom na jednoj i
neljekovitom biljkom na drugoj strani,
neljekovitom biljkom na drugoj strani,
04:25
and then we measure the number of eggs
that the monarchs lay on each plant.
that the monarchs lay on each plant.
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potom smo mjerili broj položenih jaja
na svakoj skupini biljaka.
na svakoj skupini biljaka.
04:30
And what we find when we do that
is always the same.
is always the same.
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Ono što smo otkrili
u toj situaciji je uvijek isto.
u toj situaciji je uvijek isto.
04:33
What we find is that the monarchs
strongly prefer the medicinal milkweed.
strongly prefer the medicinal milkweed.
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A to je da monarsi iznimno
preferiraju ljekovite mlječike.
preferiraju ljekovite mlječike.
04:36
In other words,
what these females are doing
what these females are doing
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drugim riječima, ono što ženke čine
04:39
is they're laying 68 percent
of their eggs in the medicinal milkweed.
of their eggs in the medicinal milkweed.
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jest da polažu 68 posto
jaja na ljekovite mlječike.
jaja na ljekovite mlječike.
04:42
Intriguingly, what they do
is they actually transmit the parasites
is they actually transmit the parasites
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Zanimljivo je da zapravo
prenose i parazite
prenose i parazite
04:46
when they're laying the eggs.
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kada polažu jaja.
04:48
They cannot prevent this.
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To ne mogu spriječiti.
04:49
They can also not medicate themselves.
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Također ne mogu same sebe liječiti.
04:51
But what these experiments tell us
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Ono što nam ti eksperimenti govore
04:53
is that these monarchs, these mothers,
can lay their eggs on medicinal milkweed
can lay their eggs on medicinal milkweed
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jest da te ženke monarha mogu
polagati jaja na ljekovite mlječike
polagati jaja na ljekovite mlječike
04:58
that will make their
future offspring less sick.
future offspring less sick.
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što će učiniti potomke manje bolesnima.
05:03
Now, this is a really
important discovery, I think,
important discovery, I think,
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Mislim da je ovo vrlo važno otkriće,
05:05
not just because it tells us
something cool about nature,
something cool about nature,
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ne samo zato što nam kaže
nešto fantastično o prirodi,
nešto fantastično o prirodi,
05:08
but also because it may tell us something
more about how we should find drugs.
more about how we should find drugs.
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već zato što nam govori
nešto više kako tražiti lijekove.
nešto više kako tražiti lijekove.
05:12
Now, these are animals that are very small
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Ove životinje su vrlo male
05:14
and we tend to think of them
as very simple.
as very simple.
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i o njima mislimo da su vrlo jednostavne.
05:16
They have tiny little brains,
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Iako imaju male mozgove,
05:17
yet they can do this
very sophisticated medication.
very sophisticated medication.
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mogu se liječiti na vrlo složen način.
05:20
Now, we know that even today,
most of our drugs
most of our drugs
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Čak i danas, većina naših lijekova
05:23
derive from natural products,
including plants,
including plants,
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se dobiva iz prirodnih spojeva,
uključujući i one biljne,
uključujući i one biljne,
05:26
and in indigenous cultures,
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i u urođenim kulturama,
05:27
traditional healers often look
at animals to find new drugs.
at animals to find new drugs.
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tradicionalni liječnici često promatraju
životinje tražeći nove lijekove.
životinje tražeći nove lijekove.
05:30
In this way, elephants have told us
how to treat stomach upset,
how to treat stomach upset,
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Tako su nam slonovi rekli
kako smiriti mučninu,
kako smiriti mučninu,
05:34
and porcupines have told people
how to treat bloody diarrhea.
how to treat bloody diarrhea.
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dikobrazi su nam rekli kako
liječiti krvavu dijareju.
liječiti krvavu dijareju.
05:37
What I think is important,
though, is to move beyond
though, is to move beyond
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Što smatram bitnim
jest pomaknuti se dalje od
jest pomaknuti se dalje od
05:39
these large-brained mammals
and give these guys more credit,
and give these guys more credit,
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tih sisavaca sa velikim mozgom,
i dati više zasluga
i dati više zasluga
05:43
these simple animals, these insects
that we tend to think of
that we tend to think of
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ovim jednostavnijim životinjama,
ovim kukcima o kojima razmišljamo
ovim kukcima o kojima razmišljamo
05:46
as very, very simple
with tiny little brains.
with tiny little brains.
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kao vrlo jednostavnim,
sa iznimno malim mozgovima.
sa iznimno malim mozgovima.
05:49
The discovery that these animals
can also use medication
can also use medication
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Otkriće da ove životinje također
mogu koristiti lijekove
mogu koristiti lijekove
05:53
opens up completely new avenues,
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otvara potpuno nove vidike,
05:56
and I think that maybe one day,
we will be treating human diseases
we will be treating human diseases
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i smatram da će jednom
se ljudske bolesti liječiti
se ljudske bolesti liječiti
06:01
with drugs that were first
discovered by butterflies,
discovered by butterflies,
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lijekovima koji su prvi
puta otkrili leptiri,
puta otkrili leptiri,
06:04
and I think that is an amazing opportunity
worth pursuing.
worth pursuing.
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i smatram da je to nevjerovatna
prilika vrijedna istraživanja.
prilika vrijedna istraživanja.
06:08
Thank you so much.
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Hvala vam puno.
06:10
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jaap de Roode - BiologistJaap de Roode studies the ecology and evolution of parasites, focusing on those that attack the monarch butterfly.
Why you should listen
At his lab at Emory University, Jaap de Roode and his team study parasites and their hosts. Some of the questions that intrigue them: If a parasite depends on its host's survival for its own well-being, why do so many of them cause harm? In what ways are hosts able to self-medicate in order to make themselves less desirable to parasites? And are the abilities to harm hosts — and the ability of hosts to self-medicate — favored by natural selection?
The De Roode Lab focuses on the monarch butterfly and its parasites. The team has made a fascinating discovery: that female butterflies infected by a parasite choose to lay their eggs on a specific variety of milkweed that helps their offspring avoid getting sick. De Roode hopes that this insight could lead to new approaches in medications for human beings in the future.
Jaap de Roode | Speaker | TED.com