TEDYouth 2014
Jaap de Roode: How butterflies self-medicate
Jap de Rode (Jaap de Roode): Kako se leptiri sami leče
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Baš kao i mi, kravljevski leptiri se ponekad razboljevaju zahvaljujući gadnom parazitu. Ali biolog Jap de Rode primetio je nešto zanimljivo u vezi sa leptirima koje je proučavao - zaražene ženke leptira birale bi da svoja jaja legu na posebnoj vrsti biljke koja je pomagala da njihovo potomstvo izbegne bolest. Kako znaju da odaberu ovu biljku? Mislite o tome kao "drugom efektu leptira" - koji bi mogao da nas nauči kako da pronađemo nove lekove za ljudske bolesti.
Jaap de Roode - Biologist
Jaap de Roode studies the ecology and evolution of parasites, focusing on those that attack the monarch butterfly. Full bio
Jaap de Roode studies the ecology and evolution of parasites, focusing on those that attack the monarch butterfly. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So infectious diseases, right?
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Zarazne bolesti, jel' da?
00:13
Infectious diseases
are still the main cause
are still the main cause
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Zarazne bolesti
još uvek su glavni uzrok
još uvek su glavni uzrok
00:15
of human suffering and death
around the world.
around the world.
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ljudske patnje i smrti širom sveta.
00:18
Every year, millions of people die
of diseases such as T.B., malaria, HIV,
of diseases such as T.B., malaria, HIV,
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Svake godine, milioni umiru od bolesti
poput tuberkuloze, malarije, HIV-a
poput tuberkuloze, malarije, HIV-a
00:23
around the world
and even in the United States.
and even in the United States.
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širom sveta i čak i u SAD-u.
00:25
Every year, thousands of Americans
die of seasonal flu.
die of seasonal flu.
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Svake godine, hiljade Amerikanaca
umre od sezonskog gripa.
umre od sezonskog gripa.
00:29
Now of course, humans,
we are creative. Right?
we are creative. Right?
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Naravno, mi ljudi smo kreativni.
Zar ne?
Zar ne?
00:31
We have come up with ways to protect
ourselves against these diseases.
ourselves against these diseases.
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Smislili smo načine da sebe zaštitimo
od ovih zaraza.
od ovih zaraza.
00:34
We have drugs and vaccines.
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Imamo lekove i vakcine.
00:36
And we're conscious --
we learn from our experiences
we learn from our experiences
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I svesni smo -
učimo iz svog iskustva
učimo iz svog iskustva
00:39
and come up with creative solutions.
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i smišljamo kreativna rešenja.
00:41
We used to think we're alone in this,
but now we know we're not.
but now we know we're not.
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Mislili smo da smo u ovome sami,
ali sada znamo da nismo.
ali sada znamo da nismo.
00:44
We're not the only medical doctors.
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Mi nismo jedini lekari.
00:46
Now we know that there's a lot of animals
out there that can do it too.
out there that can do it too.
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Sada znamo da postoji i mnogo životinja
koje mogu ovo da rade.
koje mogu ovo da rade.
00:49
Most famous, perhaps, chimpanzees.
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Najčuvenije su možda šimpanze.
00:51
Not so much different from us,
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Nisu toliko drugačije od nas
00:52
they can use plants
to treat their intestinal parasites.
to treat their intestinal parasites.
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i koriste biljke
protiv svojih crevnih parazita.
protiv svojih crevnih parazita.
Ali poslednjih nekoliko decenija nam je
pokazalo da to mogu i druge životinje:
pokazalo da to mogu i druge životinje:
00:55
But the last few decades have shown us
that other animals can do it too:
that other animals can do it too:
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00:59
elephants, porcupines,
sheep, goats, you name it.
sheep, goats, you name it.
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slonovi, bodljikava prasad, ovce, koze,
šta god vam padne napamet.
šta god vam padne napamet.
01:02
And even more interesting than that
is that recent discoveries are telling us
is that recent discoveries are telling us
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A još su zanimljivija skorašnja otkrića
koja nam govore da insekti
koja nam govore da insekti
01:06
that insects and other little animals with
smaller brains can use medication too.
smaller brains can use medication too.
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i druge male životinje sa malim mozgovima
mogu da koriste lekove.
mogu da koriste lekove.
01:11
The problem with infectious diseases,
as we all know,
as we all know,
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Kao što svi znamo,
problem sa zaraznim bolestima je taj
problem sa zaraznim bolestima je taj
01:14
is that pathogens continue to evolve,
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da patogeni nastavljaju da se razvijaju
01:16
and a lot of the drugs
that we have developed
that we have developed
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i mnogi lekovi koje smo razvili
01:18
are losing their efficacy.
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gube svoju efikasnost.
01:19
And therefore, there is this great need
to find new ways to discover drugs
to find new ways to discover drugs
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Stoga postoji velika potreba da se otkriju
novi načini za dobijanje lekova
novi načini za dobijanje lekova
01:24
that we can use against our diseases.
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koje možemo koristiti
protiv naših bolesti.
protiv naših bolesti.
01:26
Now, I think that we
should look at these animals,
should look at these animals,
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Mislim da bi trebalo
da pogledamo ove životinje
da pogledamo ove životinje
01:28
and we can learn from them
how to treat our own diseases.
how to treat our own diseases.
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i od njih naučimo
kako da lečimo sopstvene bolesti.
kako da lečimo sopstvene bolesti.
01:32
As a biologist, I have been studying
monarch butterflies for the last 10 years.
monarch butterflies for the last 10 years.
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Kao biolog, proteklih deset godina
sam proučavao kraljevske leptire.
sam proučavao kraljevske leptire.
01:36
Now, monarchs are extremely famous
for their spectacular migrations
for their spectacular migrations
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Ovi leptiri su veoma poznati
po svojim spektakularnim selidbama
po svojim spektakularnim selidbama
01:39
from the U.S. and Canada
down to Mexico every year,
down to Mexico every year,
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iz SAD i Kanade do Meksika svake godine,
01:43
where millions of them come together,
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gde se skupe milioni njih,
01:45
but it's not why I started studying them.
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ali nisam zato počeo da ih proučavam.
01:47
I study monarchs because they get sick.
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Proučavam kraljevske leptire
jer se razboljevaju.
jer se razboljevaju.
01:50
They get sick like you.
They get sick like me.
They get sick like me.
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Razboljevaju se poput vas.
Poput mene.
Poput mene.
01:52
And I think what they do
can tell us a lot about drugs
can tell us a lot about drugs
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Mislim da to što oni rade
može da nam kaže dosta o lekovima
može da nam kaže dosta o lekovima
01:55
that we can develop for humans.
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koje možemo razviti za ljude.
01:57
Now, the parasites
that monarchs get infected with
that monarchs get infected with
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Paraziti kojima se zaražavaju
kraljevski leptiri
kraljevski leptiri
01:59
are called ophryocystis elektroscirrha --
a mouthful.
a mouthful.
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nazivaju se ophryocystis elektroscirrha -
stvarno komplikovan naziv.
stvarno komplikovan naziv.
02:03
What they do is they produce spores,
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Oni proizvode spore,
02:05
millions of spores
on the outside of the butterfly
on the outside of the butterfly
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milione spora na spoljašnjosti leptira
02:07
that are shown as little specks
in between the scales of the butterfly.
in between the scales of the butterfly.
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koje se vide kao male mrlje
između krljušti leptira.
između krljušti leptira.
02:11
And this is really detrimental
to the monarch.
to the monarch.
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Ovo je zaista štetno po leptira.
02:13
It shortens their lifespan,
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Skraćuje im životni vek,
02:15
it reduces their ability to fly,
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ugrožava im sposobnost letenja,
02:17
it can even kill them
before they're even adults.
before they're even adults.
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čak može da ih ubije
pre nego što dođu do odraslog doba.
pre nego što dođu do odraslog doba.
02:19
Very detrimental parasite.
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Veoma štetan parazit.
02:21
As part of my job, I spend a lot of time
in the greenhouse growing plants,
in the greenhouse growing plants,
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Kao deo mog posla, provodim dosta vremena
u stakleniku, uzgajajući biljke,
u stakleniku, uzgajajući biljke,
02:25
and the reason for this is that monarchs
are extremely picky eaters.
are extremely picky eaters.
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a razlog je taj što su kraljevski leptiri
veoma probirljivi po pitanju hrane.
veoma probirljivi po pitanju hrane.
02:29
They only eat milkweed as larvae.
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Mlečiku jedu samo kao larve.
02:31
Luckily, there are several
species of milkweed that they can use,
species of milkweed that they can use,
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Na sreću, postoji nekoliko vrsta mlečike
koje mogu da koriste
koje mogu da koriste
02:34
and all these milkweeds
have cardenolides in them.
have cardenolides in them.
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i sve ove mlečike
u sebi imaju kardenolide.
u sebi imaju kardenolide.
02:36
These are chemicals that are toxic.
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Ovo su otrovne hemikalije.
Otrovne su za većinu životinja,
ali ne i za kraljevske leptire.
ali ne i za kraljevske leptire.
02:38
They're toxic to most animals,
but not to monarchs.
but not to monarchs.
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02:41
In fact, monarchs
can take up the chemicals,
can take up the chemicals,
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Zapravo, ovi leptiri
mogu da uzmu hemikalije,
mogu da uzmu hemikalije,
02:43
put it in their own bodies,
and it makes them toxic
and it makes them toxic
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stave ih u svoja tela,
i time ih načine otrovnim
i time ih načine otrovnim
02:45
against their predators, such as birds.
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protiv svojih grabljivica, poput ptica.
02:48
And what they do, then,
is advertise this toxicity
is advertise this toxicity
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Onda reklamiraju svoju otrovnost
02:50
through their beautiful
warning colorations
warning colorations
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kroz predivne boje upozorenja,
02:52
with this orange, black and white.
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sa ovom narandžastom, crnom i belom.
02:54
So what I did during my job
is grow plants in the greenhouse,
is grow plants in the greenhouse,
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Tokom svog posla sam uzgajao
biljke u stakleniku,
biljke u stakleniku,
02:58
different ones, different milkweeds.
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različite mlečike.
03:00
Some were toxic, including
the tropical milkweed,
the tropical milkweed,
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Neke su bile otrovne,
uključujući tropsku mlečiku,
uključujući tropsku mlečiku,
03:02
with very high concentrations
of these cardenolides.
of these cardenolides.
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sa veoma visokim koncentracijama
ovih kardenolida.
ovih kardenolida.
03:06
And some were not toxic.
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Neke nisu bile otrovne.
03:07
And then I fed them to monarchs.
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Onda sam ih davao kraljevskim leptirima.
03:09
Some of the monarchs were healthy.
They had no disease.
They had no disease.
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Neki od njih su bili zdravi.
Nisu imali zaraza.
Nisu imali zaraza.
03:12
But some of the monarchs were sick,
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Ali neki od kraljevskih leptira
bili su oboleli,
bili su oboleli,
03:14
and what I found is that
some of these milkweeds are medicinal,
some of these milkweeds are medicinal,
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i otkrio sam da su neke
od ovih mlečika lekovite,
od ovih mlečika lekovite,
03:17
meaning they reduce the disease symptoms
in the monarch butterflies,
in the monarch butterflies,
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što znači da mogu da smanje simptome
kod kraljevskih leptira,
kod kraljevskih leptira,
03:20
meaning these monarchs can live longer
when they are infected
when they are infected
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što znači da ovi leptiri mogu da žive duže
kada su zaraženi
kada su zaraženi
03:23
when feeding on these medicinal plants.
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kada se hrane ovim lekovitim biljkama.
03:25
And when I found this, I had this idea,
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Kada sam ovo otkrio, javila se ideja,
03:28
and a lot of people said
it was a crazy idea,
it was a crazy idea,
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i mnogo ljudi je reklo
da je ta ideja luda,
da je ta ideja luda,
03:30
but I thought,
what if monarchs can use this?
what if monarchs can use this?
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ali sam pomislio, šta ako ovi leptiri
mogu da iskoriste ovo?
mogu da iskoriste ovo?
03:32
What if they can use these plants
as their own form of medicine?
as their own form of medicine?
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Šta ako mogu da koriste ove biljke
kao sopstveni vid lekova?
kao sopstveni vid lekova?
03:35
What if they can act as medical doctors?
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Šta ako mogu da se ponašaju kao lekari?
Moj tim i ja počeli smo
da vršimo eksperimente.
da vršimo eksperimente.
03:38
So my team and I
started doing experiments.
started doing experiments.
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03:40
In the first types of experiments,
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U prvom tipu eksperimenata,
03:42
we had caterpillars,
and gave them a choice:
and gave them a choice:
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imali smo gusenice, i dali smo im izbor:
03:44
medicinal milkweed versus
non-medicinal milkweed.
non-medicinal milkweed.
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lekovita mlečika naspram nelekovite.
03:47
And then we measured how much they ate
of each species over their lifetime.
of each species over their lifetime.
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I onda smo merili koliko su od koje vrste
jeli u toku svog života.
jeli u toku svog života.
03:51
And the result, as so often
in science, was boring:
in science, was boring:
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Kao što često biva u nauci,
rezultat je bio dosadan:
rezultat je bio dosadan:
03:54
Fifty percent of their food was medicinal.
Fifty percent was not.
Fifty percent was not.
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50% hrane bilo je lekovito, 50% nije.
03:58
These caterpillars didn't do
anything for their own welfare.
anything for their own welfare.
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Ove gusenice nisu uradile ništa
za sopstveno dobro.
za sopstveno dobro.
04:02
So then we moved on to adult butterflies,
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Onda smo prešli na odrasle leptire
04:04
and we started asking the question
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i počeli smo da se pitamo
04:06
whether it's the mothers
that can medicate their offspring.
that can medicate their offspring.
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da li su majke te
koje mogu da leče svoje potomstvo.
koje mogu da leče svoje potomstvo.
04:09
Can the mothers lay their eggs
on medicinal milkweed
on medicinal milkweed
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Mogu li majke da legu svoja jaja
na lekovitoj mlečiki
na lekovitoj mlečiki
04:12
that will make their
future offspring less sick?
future offspring less sick?
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od koje će njihovo buduće potomstvo
biti manje bolesno?
biti manje bolesno?
04:15
We have done these experiments now
over several years,
over several years,
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Ove eksperimente smo radili
preko nekoliko godina
preko nekoliko godina
04:18
and always get the same results.
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i uvek smo dobijali iste rezultate.
04:20
What we do is we put
a monarch in a big cage,
a monarch in a big cage,
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Kraljevskog leptira stavljamo
u veliki kavez,
u veliki kavez,
04:22
a medicinal plant on one side,
a non-medicinal plant on the other side,
a non-medicinal plant on the other side,
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lekovitu biljku sa jedne strane,
nelekovitu sa druge,
nelekovitu sa druge,
04:25
and then we measure the number of eggs
that the monarchs lay on each plant.
that the monarchs lay on each plant.
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i onda merimo broj jaja
koja leptiri polažu na svaku biljku.
koja leptiri polažu na svaku biljku.
04:30
And what we find when we do that
is always the same.
is always the same.
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Kada to uradimo, rezultati su uvek isti.
04:33
What we find is that the monarchs
strongly prefer the medicinal milkweed.
strongly prefer the medicinal milkweed.
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Otkrivamo da kraljevski leptiri
izrazito više vole lekovitu mlečiku.
izrazito više vole lekovitu mlečiku.
04:36
In other words,
what these females are doing
what these females are doing
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Drugim rečima, ženke poležu
04:39
is they're laying 68 percent
of their eggs in the medicinal milkweed.
of their eggs in the medicinal milkweed.
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68% svojih jaja na lekovitu mlečiku.
04:42
Intriguingly, what they do
is they actually transmit the parasites
is they actually transmit the parasites
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Zanimljivo je to da one zapravo
prenose parazite
prenose parazite
04:46
when they're laying the eggs.
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kada legu jaja.
04:48
They cannot prevent this.
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One ovo ne mogu da spreče.
04:49
They can also not medicate themselves.
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Takođe ne mogu da leče same sebe.
04:51
But what these experiments tell us
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Ali ovi eksperimenti nam govore
04:53
is that these monarchs, these mothers,
can lay their eggs on medicinal milkweed
can lay their eggs on medicinal milkweed
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da ove majke kraljevskih leptira
mogu da poležu jaja na lekovitoj mlečiki
mogu da poležu jaja na lekovitoj mlečiki
04:58
that will make their
future offspring less sick.
future offspring less sick.
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od čega će njihovo buduće potomstvo
biti manje bolesno.
biti manje bolesno.
05:03
Now, this is a really
important discovery, I think,
important discovery, I think,
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Mislim da je ovo zaista bitno otkriće,
05:05
not just because it tells us
something cool about nature,
something cool about nature,
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ne samo zato što nam govori
nešto sjajno o prirodi,
nešto sjajno o prirodi,
05:08
but also because it may tell us something
more about how we should find drugs.
more about how we should find drugs.
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već i zato što nam može reći nešto više
o tome kako da pronalazimo lekove.
o tome kako da pronalazimo lekove.
05:12
Now, these are animals that are very small
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Ovo su veoma male životinje
05:14
and we tend to think of them
as very simple.
as very simple.
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i za njih mislimo
da su veoma jednostavne.
da su veoma jednostavne.
05:16
They have tiny little brains,
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Imaju sićušne mozgove,
05:17
yet they can do this
very sophisticated medication.
very sophisticated medication.
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a mogu da se leče na ovaj
veoma sofisticiran način.
veoma sofisticiran način.
05:20
Now, we know that even today,
most of our drugs
most of our drugs
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Znamo da čak i danas,
većina naših lekova
većina naših lekova
05:23
derive from natural products,
including plants,
including plants,
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potiče iz prirodnih proizvoda,
uključujući biljke,
uključujući biljke,
05:26
and in indigenous cultures,
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i u urođeničkim kulturama,
tradicionalni iscelitelji često posmatraju
životinje da bi našli nove lekove.
životinje da bi našli nove lekove.
05:27
traditional healers often look
at animals to find new drugs.
at animals to find new drugs.
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05:30
In this way, elephants have told us
how to treat stomach upset,
how to treat stomach upset,
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Na ovaj način, slonovi su nam rekli
kako da lečimo bol u stomaku,
kako da lečimo bol u stomaku,
05:34
and porcupines have told people
how to treat bloody diarrhea.
how to treat bloody diarrhea.
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a morska prasad su ljudima rekla
kako da se bore sa krvavom dijarejom.
kako da se bore sa krvavom dijarejom.
05:37
What I think is important,
though, is to move beyond
though, is to move beyond
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Ipak mislim da je bitno pomeriti se dalje
05:39
these large-brained mammals
and give these guys more credit,
and give these guys more credit,
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od ovih sisara sa velikim mozgovima
i odati ovim mališama više priznanja,
i odati ovim mališama više priznanja,
05:43
these simple animals, these insects
that we tend to think of
that we tend to think of
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ovim jednostavnim životinjama,
insektima za koje mislimo
insektima za koje mislimo
05:46
as very, very simple
with tiny little brains.
with tiny little brains.
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da su veoma, veoma jednostavna stvorenja
sa sićušnim mozgovima.
sa sićušnim mozgovima.
05:49
The discovery that these animals
can also use medication
can also use medication
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Otkriće da i ove životinje
mogu da koriste lekove
mogu da koriste lekove
05:53
opens up completely new avenues,
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otvara potpuno nove puteve,
05:56
and I think that maybe one day,
we will be treating human diseases
we will be treating human diseases
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i mislim da ćemo možda jednoga dana
lečiti ljudske bolesti
lečiti ljudske bolesti
06:01
with drugs that were first
discovered by butterflies,
discovered by butterflies,
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lekovima koje su prvi otkrili leptiri
06:04
and I think that is an amazing opportunity
worth pursuing.
worth pursuing.
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i mislim da je to neverovatna prilika
koju vredi iskoristiti.
koju vredi iskoristiti.
06:08
Thank you so much.
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Mnogo vam hvala.
06:10
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jaap de Roode - BiologistJaap de Roode studies the ecology and evolution of parasites, focusing on those that attack the monarch butterfly.
Why you should listen
At his lab at Emory University, Jaap de Roode and his team study parasites and their hosts. Some of the questions that intrigue them: If a parasite depends on its host's survival for its own well-being, why do so many of them cause harm? In what ways are hosts able to self-medicate in order to make themselves less desirable to parasites? And are the abilities to harm hosts — and the ability of hosts to self-medicate — favored by natural selection?
The De Roode Lab focuses on the monarch butterfly and its parasites. The team has made a fascinating discovery: that female butterflies infected by a parasite choose to lay their eggs on a specific variety of milkweed that helps their offspring avoid getting sick. De Roode hopes that this insight could lead to new approaches in medications for human beings in the future.
Jaap de Roode | Speaker | TED.com