TED2010
Sam Harris: Science can answer moral questions
Sam Harris: Znanost može odgovoriti na moralna pitanja
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Obično se smatra kako znanost ne može odgovoriti na pitanja dobra i zla, ispravno i krivog. Međutim, Sam Harris tvrdi kako znanost je -- i trebala bi biti -- autoritet za pitanja morala, u oblikovanju ljudskih vrednota i postavljanju onoga što život čini dobrim.
Sam Harris - Neuroscientist, philosopher
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live. Full bio
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I'm going to speak today about the relationship
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Danas ću govoriti o odnosu
00:18
between science and human values.
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između znanosti i ljudskih vrednota.
00:22
Now, it's generally understood that
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Općenito se podrazumijeva kako su
00:24
questions of morality --
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pitanja morala,
00:26
questions of good and evil and right and wrong --
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pitanja dobra i zla, ispravnog i krivog,
00:28
are questions about which science officially has no opinion.
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pitanja o kojima znanost službeno nema mišljenje.
00:31
It's thought that science can help us
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Smatra se kako nam znanost može pomoći
00:34
get what we value,
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shvatiti što vrednujemo,
00:36
but it can never tell us what we ought to value.
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ali nam nikada neće moći reći što bi trebali cijeniti.
00:39
And, consequently, most people -- I think most people
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I, posljedično, većina ljudi -- mislim većina ljudi
00:41
probably here -- think that science will never answer
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vjerojatno ovdje -- misli kako znanost nikada neće odgovoriti
00:44
the most important questions in human life:
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na najvažnija pitanja u ljudskom životu,
00:47
questions like, "What is worth living for?"
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pitanja poput, "Za što vrijedi živjeti?"
00:49
"What is worth dying for?"
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"Za što vrijedi umrijeti?"
00:51
"What constitutes a good life?"
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"Što čini dobar život?"
00:53
So, I'm going to argue
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Zato ću dokazati
00:55
that this is an illusion -- that the separation between
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kako je to iluzija -- kako je odvanjanje između
00:57
science and human values is an illusion --
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znanosti i ljudskih vrednota iluzija --
00:59
and actually quite a dangerous one
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i to prilično opasna iluzija
01:02
at this point in human history.
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u ovom trenutku ljudske povijesti.
01:04
Now, it's often said that science
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Sada, često se kaže kako nam znanost
01:06
cannot give us a foundation for morality and human values,
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ne može dati temelj za moral i ljudske vrednote
01:09
because science deals with facts,
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zato što se znanost bavi činjenicama,
01:12
and facts and values seem to belong to different spheres.
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a čini se kako činjenice i vrednote pripadaju različitim sferama.
01:16
It's often thought that there's no description
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Često se smatra kako ne postoji opis
01:19
of the way the world is
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svijeta kakav jest
01:21
that can tell us how the world ought to be.
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koji nam može reći kakav bi trebao biti.
01:25
But I think this is quite clearly untrue.
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Ali ja smatram kako je ovo očito neistina.
01:27
Values are a certain kind of fact.
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Vrednote su određena vrsta činjenica.
01:31
They are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.
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To su činjenice o dobrobiti svjesnih bića.
01:35
Why is it that we don't have ethical obligations toward rocks?
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Zašto nemamo etičke obveze prema stjenama?
01:39
Why don't we feel compassion for rocks?
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Zašto ne suosjećamo sa stjenama?
01:42
It's because we don't think rocks can suffer. And if we're more
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Zato što mislimo kako stjene ne mogu patiti. A ako smo više
01:44
concerned about our fellow primates
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zabrinuti za drage nam primate
01:46
than we are about insects, as indeed we are,
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nego što smo za insekte, kao što i jesmo,
01:49
it's because we think they're exposed to a greater range
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to je zato što mislimo kako su oni izloženi većem rasponu
01:51
of potential happiness and suffering.
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potencijalne sreće i patnje.
01:54
Now, the crucial thing to notice here
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Ključna stvar za primjetiti ovdje
01:57
is that this is a factual claim:
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je kako je to činjenična tvrdnja.
01:59
This is something that we could be right or wrong about. And if we
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To je nešto oko čega možemo biti u pravu ili u krivu. I ako
02:01
have misconstrued the relationship between biological complexity
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krivo protumačimo odnos između biološke složenosti
02:04
and the possibilities of experience
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i mogućnosti iskustva
02:07
well then we could be wrong about the inner lives of insects.
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tada bi mogli biti u krivu oko unutrašnjih života insekata.
02:10
And there's no notion,
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I ne postoji mišljenje,
02:14
no version of human morality
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nema verzije ljudskog morala
02:16
and human values that I've ever come across
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i ljudskih vrednota na koje sam ikad naišao
02:19
that is not at some point reducible
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koje se ne mogu u nekoj točci svesti
02:21
to a concern about conscious experience
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na brigu o svjesnom iskustvu
02:24
and its possible changes.
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i njegovim mogućim promjenama.
02:26
Even if you get your values from religion,
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Čak ako dobivate svoje vrednote iz religije,
02:29
even if you think that good and evil ultimately
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čak ako mislite kako se dobro i zlo krajnje
02:31
relate to conditions after death --
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vežu sa uvjetima života poslije smrti,
02:33
either to an eternity of happiness with God
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bilo za vječnu sreću s Bogom
02:36
or an eternity of suffering in hell --
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ili za vječnu patnju u paklu,
02:38
you are still concerned about consciousness and its changes.
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još uvijek ste zabrinuti o svijesti i njenim promjenama.
02:42
And to say that such changes can persist after death
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I reći da se te promjene mogu nastaviti poslije smrti
02:45
is itself a factual claim,
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je samo po sebi činjenična tvrdnja
02:47
which, of course, may or may not be true.
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koja, naravno, može ili ne mora biti istinita.
02:50
Now, to speak about the conditions of well-being
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Sada, kada govorimo o uvjetima dobrobiti
02:53
in this life, for human beings,
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u ovom životu, za ljudska bića,
02:55
we know that there is a continuum of such facts.
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znamo kako postoji kontinuum takvih činjenica.
02:58
We know that it's possible to live in a failed state,
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Znamo kako je moguće živjetu u neuspješnom stanju,
03:01
where everything that can go wrong does go wrong --
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gdje sve što može poći po krivu, pođe po krivu,
03:03
where mothers cannot feed their children,
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gdje majke ne mogu hraniti vlastitu djecu,
03:06
where strangers cannot find the basis for peaceful collaboration,
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gdje stranci ne mogu naći osnovu za miroljubivu suradnju,
03:10
where people are murdered indiscriminately.
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gdje se ljude ubija bez diskriminacije.
03:13
And we know that it's possible to move along this continuum
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I znamo da je moguće pomicati se putem tog kontinuuma,
03:16
towards something quite a bit more idyllic,
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prema nečemu što je više idilično,
03:18
to a place where a conference like this is even conceivable.
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do mjesta gdje je ovakva konferencija uopće moguća.
03:23
And we know -- we know --
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I mi znamo -- mi znamo --
03:26
that there are right and wrong answers
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kako postoje dobri i loši odgovori
03:28
to how to move in this space.
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na to kako se kretati u tom prostoru.
03:30
Would adding cholera to the water be a good idea?
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Bi li bila dobra ideja dodati koleru u vodu?
03:36
Probably not.
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Vjerojatno ne.
03:38
Would it be a good idea for everyone to believe in the evil eye,
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Bi li bila dobra ideja da svi vjeruju u urokljivo oko,
03:41
so that when bad things happened to them
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tako da kada im se dogode loše stvari
03:43
they immediately blame their neighbors? Probably not.
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odmah krive svoje susjede? Vjerojatno ne.
03:47
There are truths to be known
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Postoje istine za spoznati
03:49
about how human communities flourish,
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o tome kako ljudske zajednice cvjetaju,
03:52
whether or not we understand these truths.
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neovisno o tome razumijemo li te istine ili ne.
03:54
And morality relates to these truths.
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I moral je povezan sa tim istinama.
03:57
So, in talking about values we are talking about facts.
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Dakle, u razgovoru o vrednotama govorimo o činjenicama.
04:01
Now, of course our situation in the world can be understood at many levels --
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Naša situacija u svijetu se može razumjeti na mnogo razina --
04:04
from the level of the genome
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koje variraju od razine genoma
04:06
on up to the level of economic systems
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sve do razine ekonomskih sustava
04:08
and political arrangements.
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i političkih uređenja.
04:10
But if we're going to talk about human well-being
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Ali ako ćemo govoriti o ljudskoj dobrobiti
04:12
we are, of necessity, talking about the human brain.
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tada, neizbježno, govorimo o ljudskom mozgu.
04:15
Because we know that our experience of the world and of ourselves within it
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Zato što znamo da se naše iskustvo svijeta i nas u njemu
04:18
is realized in the brain --
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ostvaruje u mozgu --
04:21
whatever happens after death.
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što god da se dogodilo nakon smrti.
04:23
Even if the suicide bomber does get 72 virgins in the afterlife,
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Čak i ako bombaš samoubojica dobije 72 djevice u zagrobnom životu,
04:28
in this life, his personality --
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u ovom životu, njegova osobnost --
04:31
his rather unfortunate personality --
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njegova prilično nesretna osobnost --
04:33
is the product of his brain.
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jest rezultat njegovog mozga.
04:36
So the contributions of culture --
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Dakle -- doprinos kulture --
04:39
if culture changes us, as indeed it does,
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ako nas kultura mijenja, kao što i jest,
04:41
it changes us by changing our brains.
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mijenja nas tako što mijenja naš mozak.
04:43
And so therefore whatever cultural variation there is
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I stoga koja god varijacija kulture postoji
04:46
in how human beings flourish
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u tome kako ljudska bića cvjetaju
04:48
can, at least in principle, be understood
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može, barem u načelu, biti shvaćena
04:50
in the context of a maturing science of the mind --
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u kontekstu znanosti o umu koja se usavršava --
04:53
neuroscience, psychology, etc.
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neuroznanosti, psihologije, itd.
04:56
So, what I'm arguing is that
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Dakle, ono za što se zalažem jest da se
04:58
value's reduced to facts --
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vrednote svode na činjenice --
05:00
to facts about the conscious experience
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činjenice o svjesnom iskustvu --
05:02
of conscious beings.
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svjesnih bića.
05:05
And we can therefore visualize a space
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I stoga možemo vizualizirati prostor
05:08
of possible changes in the experience of these beings.
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mogućih promjena u iskustvu tih bića.
05:11
And I think of this as kind of a moral landscape,
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I o ovome razmišljam kao o vrsti moralnog krajolika,
05:13
with peaks and valleys that correspond
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s vrhuncima i dolinama koje odgovaraju
05:15
to differences in the well-being of conscious creatures,
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razlikama u dobroti svjesnih bića,
05:18
both personal and collective.
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kako osobno tako i kolektivno.
05:20
And one thing to notice is that perhaps
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Treba primjetiti kako možda
05:22
there are states of human well-being
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postoje stanja ljudske dobrobiti
05:24
that we rarely access, that few people access.
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koja se rijetko postižu, kojima malo ljudi pristupa.
05:27
And these await our discovery.
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I ta stanja očekuju naše otkrivanje.
05:29
Perhaps some of these states can be appropriately called
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Možda se neka od tih stanja mogu primjereno nazvati
05:31
mystical or spiritual.
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mističnima ili produhovljenima.
05:33
Perhaps there are other states that we can't access
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Možda postoje neka druga stanja kojima ne možemo pristupiti
05:35
because of how our minds are structured
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zbog načina na koji je naš um strukturiran,
05:38
but other minds possibly could access them.
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ali drugi umovi bi im možda mogli pristupiti.
05:42
Now, let me be clear about what I'm not saying. I'm not saying
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Sada bih želio biti jasan oko toga što ne govorim. Ne govorim
05:44
that science is guaranteed to map this space,
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kako će znanost zajamčeno opisati taj prostor,
05:49
or that we will have scientific answers to every
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ili kako ćemo imati znanstveni odgovor na svako
05:51
conceivable moral question.
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zamislivo moralno pitanje.
05:53
I don't think, for instance, that you will one day consult
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Ne mislim da ćemo, na primjer, jednog dana pitati za savjet
05:55
a supercomputer to learn whether you should have a second child,
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superračunalo kako bi saznali trebamo li imati drugo dijete,
05:59
or whether we should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities,
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ili trebamo li bombardirati iranska nuklearna postrojenja,
06:03
or whether you can deduct the full cost of TED as a business expense.
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ili možemo li otpisati punu cijenu TED-a kao poslovni trošak.
06:07
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:09
But if questions affect human well-being
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Ali ako pitanja utječu na dobrobit ljudi
06:11
then they do have answers, whether or not we can find them.
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tada imaju odgovore, možemo li ih mi naći ili ne.
06:14
And just admitting this --
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I samo priznanje ove činjenice --
06:16
just admitting that there are right and wrong answers
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samo priznanje kako postoje dobri i loši odgovori
06:18
to the question of how humans flourish --
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na pitanje kako ljudi cvjetaju --
06:20
will change the way we talk about morality,
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će promjeniti način na koji pričamo o moralu,
06:22
and will change our expectations
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i promjenit će naša očekivanja
06:24
of human cooperation in the future.
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o ljudskoj suradnji u budućnosti.
06:28
For instance, there are 21 states in our country
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Na primjer, u 21 državi u našoj zemlji
06:32
where corporal punishment in the classroom is legal,
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zakonom je dozvoljeno tjelesno kažnjavanje u učionici.
06:35
where it is legal for a teacher to beat a child with a wooden board, hard,
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Legalno je da učitelj tuče dijete s drvenom šibom, jako,
06:41
and raising large bruises and blisters and even breaking the skin.
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te pritom uzrokuje velike modrice ili čak puknuće kože.
06:45
And hundreds of thousands of children, incidentally,
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I stotine tisuća djece, uzgred,
06:47
are subjected to this every year.
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su podvrgnuta tome svake godine.
06:49
The locations of these enlightened districts, I think, will fail to surprise you.
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Položaj tih prosvjetljenih područja, vjerujem, neće vas iznenaditi.
06:54
We're not talking about Connecticut.
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Ne govorimo o Connecticuteu.
06:57
And the rationale for this behavior is explicitly religious.
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I opravdanje za to ponašanje je izričito religiozno.
07:01
The creator of the universe himself
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Stvoritelj svemira
07:03
has told us not to spare the rod,
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nam je osobno rekao,
07:05
lest we spoil the child --
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batina je iz raja izašla.
07:07
this is in Proverbs 13 and 20, and I believe, 23.
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To je u Izrekama 13 i 20, te vjerujem 23.
07:12
But we can ask the obvious question:
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Ali mi možemo postaviti očito pitanje:
07:14
Is it a good idea, generally speaking,
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Je li dobra ideja, općenito govoreći,
07:18
to subject children to pain
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podvrgnuti djecu boli,
07:21
and violence and public humiliation
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nasilju i javnom poniženju
07:24
as a way of encouraging healthy emotional development
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kao način kojim ćemo potaknuti zdravi emocionalni razvoj
07:26
and good behavior?
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i dobro ponašanje?
07:28
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:29
Is there any doubt
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Postoji li ikakva sumnja
07:33
that this question has an answer,
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da to pitanje ima odgovor,
07:35
and that it matters?
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i kako je taj odgovor bitan?
07:38
Now, many of you might worry
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Sada, mnogi od vas bi se mogli zabrinuti
07:40
that the notion of well-being is truly undefined,
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kako je pojam dobrobiti uistinu nedefiniran,
07:43
and seemingly perpetually open to be re-construed.
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i naizgled trajno otvoren za redefiniranje.
07:46
And so, how therefore can there be an
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I stoga, kako može postojati
07:48
objective notion of well-being?
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objektivan pojam dobrobiti?
07:51
Well, consider by analogy, the concept of physical health.
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Pa, razmislite o analogiji, pojmu fizičkog zdravlja.
07:54
The concept of physical health is undefined.
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Pojam fizičkog zdravlja je nedefiniran,
07:57
As we just heard from Michael Specter, it has changed over the years.
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kao što nam je Michael Specter upravo rekao, mijenjao se kroz povijest.
08:00
When this statue was carved
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Kada je ovaj kip iskelsan
08:02
the average life expectancy was probably 30.
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očekivano trajanje života je vjerojatno bilo 30.
08:05
It's now around 80 in the developed world.
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Sada je oko 80 u razvijenom svijetu.
08:08
There may come a time when we meddle with our genomes
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Možda će doći vrijeme kada ćemo se miješati u naš genom
08:11
in such a way that not being able to run a marathon
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na takav način da će se nemogućnost trčanja maratona
08:14
at age 200 will be considered a profound disability.
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u 200. godini smatrati potpunim invaliditetom.
08:18
People will send you donations when you're in that condition.
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Ljudi će vam slati donacije kada ste u takvom stanju.
08:21
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:23
Notice that the fact that the concept of health
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Primjetite kako činjenica da je pojam zdravlja
08:27
is open, genuinely open for revision,
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otvoren, potpuno otvoren za reviziju
08:30
does not make it vacuous.
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ne znači kako je on prazan.
08:32
The distinction between a healthy person
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Razlika između zdrave
08:35
and a dead one
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i mrtve osobe
08:37
is about as clear and consequential as any we make in science.
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i dosljedna kao bilo koja koju napravimo u znanosti.
08:43
Another thing to notice is there may be many peaks on the moral landscape:
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Sljedeća stvar za primjetiti je kako može biti više vrhunaca na moralnom krajobrazu:
08:46
There may be equivalent ways to thrive;
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Može biti više ravnopravnih načina za napredovanje;
08:49
there may be equivalent ways to organize a human society
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može biti više ravnopravnih načina kako organizirati ljudsko društvo
08:51
so as to maximize human flourishing.
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kako bi se maksimiziralo ljudsko cvjetanje.
08:53
Now, why wouldn't this
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Sada, zašto ovo ne bi
08:55
undermine an objective morality?
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narušilo objektivni moral?
08:59
Well think of how we talk about food:
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Razmislite o tome kako govorimo o hrani:
09:02
I would never be tempted to argue to you
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Ne bih nikada bio u iskušenju tvrditi
09:05
that there must be one right food to eat.
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kako postoji samo jedna prava hrana za jesti.
09:07
There is clearly a range of materials
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Očito postoji raspon sastojaka
09:09
that constitute healthy food.
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koji čine zdravu hranu.
09:11
But there's nevertheless a clear distinction
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Ali unatoč tome postoji jasna razlika
09:13
between food and poison.
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između hrane i otrova.
09:15
The fact that there are many right answers
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Činjenica kako postoji više dobrih odgovora
09:18
to the question, "What is food?"
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na pitanje "Što je hrana?"
09:20
does not tempt us
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ne dovodi nas u iskušenje
09:23
to say that there are no truths to be known about human nutrition.
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da kažemo kako ne postoje spoznajne istine o ljudskoj prehrani.
09:28
Many people worry
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Sada, mnogi ljudi brinu
09:30
that a universal morality would require
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kako bi univerzalni moral zahtijevao
09:33
moral precepts that admit of no exceptions.
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moralna pravila koja ne dopuštaju iznimke.
09:36
So, for instance, if it's really wrong to lie,
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Tako, na primjer, ako je zaista loše lagati,
09:38
it must always be wrong to lie,
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tada uvijek mora biti loše lagati
09:40
and if you can find an exception,
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i ako možemo naći iznimku,
09:42
well then there's no such thing as moral truth.
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tada ne postoji nešto poput moralne istine.
09:45
Why would we think this?
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Zašto bismo ovako mislili?
09:47
Consider, by analogy, the game of chess.
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Razmotrite, kao analogiju, igru šaha.
09:50
Now, if you're going to play good chess,
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Ako ćete igrati dobar šah,
09:52
a principle like, "Don't lose your Queen,"
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princip poput, "Nemoj izgubiti kraljicu",
09:54
is very good to follow.
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je jako dobro slijediti.
09:56
But it clearly admits some exceptions.
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Ali naravno on dozvoljava iznimke.
09:58
There are moments when losing your Queen is a brilliant thing to do.
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Postoje situacije u kojima je izgubiti kraljicu briljantna stvar za napraviti.
10:01
There are moments when it is the only good thing you can do.
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Postoje situacije kada je to jedina dobra stvar koju možete učiniti.
10:05
And yet, chess is a domain of perfect objectivity.
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A ipak, šah predstavlja domenu savršene objektivnosti.
10:09
The fact that there are exceptions here does not
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Činjenica kako ovdje postoje iznimke
10:11
change that at all.
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to niti malo ne mjenja
10:14
Now, this brings us to the sorts of moves
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Dakle, to nas dovodi do izvora poteza
10:17
that people are apt to make in the moral sphere.
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koje su ljudi skloni učiniti u moralnoj sferi.
10:20
Consider the great problem of women's bodies:
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Razmotrimo veliki problem ženskih tijela:
10:25
What to do about them?
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Što učiniti s njima?
10:27
Well this is one thing you can do about them:
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Ovo je jedna stvar koju možemo učiniti,
10:29
You can cover them up.
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možemo ih prekriti.
10:31
Now, it is the position, generally speaking, of our intellectual community
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Stav je, općenito govoreći, naše intelektualne zajednice
10:33
that while we may not like this,
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da iako nam se to možda neće sviđati,
10:37
we might think of this as "wrong"
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možemo smatrati kako je ovo krivo
10:39
in Boston or Palo Alto,
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u Bostonu ili Palo Altou
10:41
who are we to say
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tko smo mi da kažemo
10:43
that the proud denizens of an ancient culture
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kako su ponosni stanovnici antičke kulture
10:46
are wrong to force their wives and daughters
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bili u krivu kada su prisiljavali svoje žene i kćeri
10:49
to live in cloth bags?
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da žive u krpenim vrećama?
10:51
And who are we to say, even, that they're wrong
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I tko smo mi da kažemo kako su oni u krivu
10:53
to beat them with lengths of steel cable,
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kada ih tuku sa čeličnim kablom,
10:55
or throw battery acid in their faces
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ili bacaju kiselinu iz baterija u njihova lica
10:57
if they decline the privilege of being smothered in this way?
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ako odbiju privilegiju da ih se uguši na ovaj način?
11:01
Well, who are we not to say this?
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Ali tko smo mi da ne kažemo to?
11:04
Who are we to pretend
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Tko smo mi da se pretvaramo
11:06
that we know so little about human well-being
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kako znamo toliko malo o ljudskoj dobrobiti
11:10
that we have to be non-judgmental about a practice like this?
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da ne smijemo osuđivati ovakve postupke?
11:14
I'm not talking about voluntary wearing of a veil --
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Ne govorim o dragovoljnom nošenju vela,
11:18
women should be able to wear whatever they want, as far as I'm concerned.
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žene bi trebale moći nositi što god žele, što se mene tiče.
11:20
But what does voluntary mean
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Ali što znači dragovoljno
11:23
in a community where,
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u zajednici gdje,
11:25
when a girl gets raped,
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kada djevojka bude silovana,
11:28
her father's first impulse,
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prvi impuls njenog oca,
11:30
rather often, is to murder her out of shame?
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prilično često je ubiti ju zbog srama?!
11:35
Just let that fact detonate in your brain for a minute:
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Samo dopustite toj činjenici da eksplodira u vašoj glavi na trenutak:
11:42
Your daughter gets raped,
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Vaša kćer bude silovana,
11:44
and what you want to do is kill her.
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a ono što želite napraviti je ubiti ju.
11:52
What are the chances that represents
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Koje su šanse da to predstavlja
11:54
a peak of human flourishing?
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vrhunac ljudskog cvjetanja?
12:02
Now, to say this is not to say that we have got the
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Reći ovo, ne znači reći da mi imamo
12:04
perfect solution in our own society.
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savršeno rješenje u našem vlastitom društvu.
12:08
For instance,
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Na primjer,
12:10
this is what it's like to go to a newsstand almost anywhere
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ovako izgleda kada odete na novinski štand skoro svugdje
12:12
in the civilized world.
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u civiliziranom svijetu.
12:14
Now, granted, for many men
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Zasigurno, za mnoge muškarce,
12:16
it may require a degree in philosophy to see something wrong with these images.
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potrebna je diploma iz filozofije da vide nešto loše u ovim slikama.
12:19
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
12:22
But if we are in a reflective mood,
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Ali ako smo u raspoloženju za refleksiju
12:25
we can ask,
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možemo se zapitati,
12:27
"Is this the perfect expression
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"Je li ovo savršen izraz
12:29
of psychological balance
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psihološke ravnoteže u odnosu na
12:31
with respect to variables like youth and beauty and women's bodies?"
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varijable kao što su mladost i ljepota ženskih tijela?"
12:34
I mean, is this the optimal environment
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Mislim, je li ovo optimalno okruženje
12:36
in which to raise our children?
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za odgajanje djece?
12:40
Probably not. OK, so perhaps there's some place
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Vjerojatno ne. OK. Dakle, možda ima neko mjesto
12:42
on the spectrum
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na spektru
12:44
between these two extremes
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između te dvije krajnosti
12:46
that represents a place of better balance.
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koje predstavlja mjesto bolje ravnoteže?
12:49
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:57
Perhaps there are many such places --
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Možda postoji više takvih mjesta,
12:59
again, given other changes in human culture
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opet, za druge promjene u ljudskoj kulturi,
13:02
there may be many peaks on the moral landscape.
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može biti više vrhunaca na moralnom krajoliku.
13:04
But the thing to notice is that there will be
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Ali ono što treba primjetiti je kako imamo
13:06
many more ways not to be on a peak.
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puno više načina kako ne biti na vrhuncu.
13:11
Now the irony, from my perspective,
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Sada, ironija, iz moje perspektive
13:13
is that the only people who seem to generally agree with me
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je kako su jedini ljudi koji se općenito slažu sa mnom
13:16
and who think that there are right and wrong answers to moral questions
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i koji misle kako postoje dobri i loši odgovori na moralna pitanja
13:19
are religious demagogues of one form or another.
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religijski demagozi ove ili one vrste.
13:22
And of course they think they have right answers to moral questions
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I, naravno, oni misle da imaju prave odgovore na moralna pitanja
13:25
because they got these answers from a voice in a whirlwind,
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jer su te odgovore dobili od glasa s neba,
13:29
not because they made an intelligent analysis of the causes
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a ne zato što su napravili inteligentnu analizu uzroka
13:31
and condition of human and animal well-being.
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i uvjeta ljudske i životinjske dobrobiti.
13:35
In fact, the endurance of religion
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Zapravo, izdržljivost religije
13:37
as a lens through which most people view moral questions
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kao leće kroz koju većina ljudi gleda moralna pitanja
13:41
has separated most moral talk
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je odvojila većinu govora o moralu
13:44
from real questions of human and animal suffering.
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od stvarnih pitanja ljudske i životinjske patnje.
13:48
This is why we spend our time
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To je razlog zašto provodimo naše vrijeme
13:50
talking about things like gay marriage
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u razgovoru o stvarima kao što su homoseksualni brakovi
13:52
and not about genocide or nuclear proliferation
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a ne o genocidu ili nuklearnom oružju
13:56
or poverty or any other hugely consequential issue.
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ili siromaštvu ili bilo kojem drugom izrazito važnom pitanju.
14:01
But the demagogues are right about one thing: We need
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Ali demagozi su u pravu oko jedne stvari, trebamo
14:03
a universal conception of human values.
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univerzalni koncept ljudskih vrednota.
14:07
Now, what stands in the way of this?
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Što tome stoji na putu?
14:09
Well, one thing to notice is that we
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Jedna stvar za primjetiti je da
14:11
do something different when talking about morality --
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napravimo nešto drugo kada govorimo o moralu,
14:13
especially secular, academic, scientist types.
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posebno mi sekularni, akademski, znanstveni tipovi.
14:17
When talking about morality we value differences of opinion
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Kada govorimo o moralu vrednujemo razlike u mišljenju
14:20
in a way that we don't in any other area of our lives.
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na način na koji to ne radimo niti u jednom drugom području našeg života.
14:23
So, for instance the Dalai Lama gets up every morning
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Tako, na primjer, Dalai Lama ustaje svako jutro i
14:25
meditating on compassion,
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meditira o suosjećanju.
14:27
and he thinks that helping other human beings is an integral component
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I on misli da je pomaganje drugom ljudskom biću
14:29
of human happiness.
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sastavna komponenta ljudske sreće.
14:32
On the other hand, we have someone like Ted Bundy;
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S druge strane imamo nekoga kao što je Ted Bundy.
14:34
Ted Bundy was very fond of abducting and raping
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Ted Bundy je bio naklonjen otimanju i silovanju
14:36
and torturing and killing young women.
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i mučenju i ubijanju mladih žena.
14:38
So, we appear to have a genuine difference of opinion
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Dakle, čini se kako imamo istinsko neslaganje u mišljenju
14:40
about how to profitably use one's time.
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o tome kako korisno provoditi vrijeme.
14:43
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:45
Most Western intellectuals
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Većina intelektualaca sa zapada
14:47
look at this situation
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gledaju na tu situaciju
14:49
and say, "Well, there's nothing for the Dalai Lama
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i kažu "Pa, nema tu nečega oko čega bi Dalai Lama
14:51
to be really right about -- really right about --
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mogao biti zaista u pravu, zaista u pravu,
14:54
or for Ted Bundy to be really wrong about
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ili oko čega bi Ted Bundy mogao biti u krivu
14:57
that admits of a real argument
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što dopušta realan argument
15:01
that potentially falls within the purview of science.
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koji potencijalno upada u djelokrug znanosti.
15:04
He likes chocolate, he likes vanilla.
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Jedan voli čokoladu, a jedan voli vaniliju.
15:07
There's nothing that one should be able to say to the other
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Ne postoji ništa što bi jedan mogao reći drugome
15:10
that should persuade the other."
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što bi uvjerilo drugoga."
15:13
Notice that we don't do this in science.
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I primjetite kako to ne radimo u znanosti.
15:16
On the left you have Edward Witten.
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Na lijevoj strani je Edward Witten.
15:18
He's a string theorist.
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On zagovara teoriju nizova.
15:21
If you ask the smartest physicists around
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Ako pitate najpametnije fizičare
15:23
who is the smartest physicist around,
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tko je najpametniji fizičar,
15:25
in my experience half of them will say Ed Witten.
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prema mom iskustvu pola od njih će reći Ed Witten.
15:28
The other half will tell you they don't like the question.
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Druga polovica će vam reći da im se ne sviđa pitanje.
15:31
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:34
So, what would happen if I showed up at a physics conference
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Dakle, što bi se dogodilo kada bi se ja pojavio na konferenciji iz fizike
15:38
and said,"String theory is bogus.
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i rekao "Teorija nizova je lažna.
15:40
It doesn't resonate with me. It's not how I chose to
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Ne leži mi baš. To nije ono kako ja odabirem
15:42
view the universe at a small scale.
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vidjeti svemir u malim razmjerima.
15:45
I'm not a fan."
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Nisam ljubitelj."
15:47
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:50
Well, nothing would happen because I'm not a physicist;
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Pa, ne bi se dogodilo ništa zato što ja nisam fizičar,
15:52
I don't understand string theory.
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ja ne razumijem teoriju nizova.
15:54
I'm the Ted Bundy of string theory.
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Ja sam Ted Bundy teorije nizova.
15:56
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:59
I wouldn't want to belong to any string theory club that would have me as a member.
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Ne bi htio pripadati niti jednom klubu teorije nizova koji bi me htio imati za člana.
16:02
But this is just the point.
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Ali upravo to jest poanta.
16:04
Whenever we are talking about facts
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Kada god govorimo o činjenicama
16:07
certain opinions must be excluded.
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određena mišljenja moraju biti isključena.
16:09
That is what it is to have a domain of expertise.
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To je ono što znači imati područje stručnosti.
16:12
That is what it is for knowledge to count.
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To je ono što znači kako znanje vrijedi.
16:15
How have we convinced ourselves
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Kako smo se uvjerili
16:18
that in the moral sphere there is no such thing as moral expertise,
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kako u moralnoj sferi ne postoji moralna stručnost,
16:22
or moral talent, or moral genius even?
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ili moralni talent ili čak moralni genije?
16:25
How have we convinced ourselves
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Kako smo se uvjerili
16:27
that every opinion has to count?
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da se svako mišljenje mora vrednovati?
16:29
How have we convinced ourselves
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Kako smo se uvjerili
16:31
that every culture has a point of view
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da svaka kultura ima gledište
16:33
on these subjects worth considering?
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o ovim temama koje je vrijedno razmatranja?
16:36
Does the Taliban
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Ima li Taliban
16:38
have a point of view on physics
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gledište o fizici
16:40
that is worth considering? No.
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koje je vrijedno razmatranja? Ne.
16:43
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
16:48
How is their ignorance any less obvious
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Kako je njihova neukost išta manje očita
16:51
on the subject of human well-being?
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u području ljudske dobrobiti?
16:53
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
16:59
So, this, I think, is what the world needs now.
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Dakle to je ono što ja mislim da svijet treba sada.
17:03
It needs people like ourselves to admit
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Treba ljude poput nas koji će priznati
17:06
that there are right and wrong answers
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kako postoje dobri i loši odgovori
17:09
to questions of human flourishing,
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na pitanja ljudskog cvjetanja,
17:11
and morality relates
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i da je moral povezan
17:13
to that domain of facts.
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s tom domenom činjenica.
17:15
It is possible
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Moguće je
17:17
for individuals, and even for whole cultures,
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za pojednice, ili čak za cijele kulture
17:21
to care about the wrong things,
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da brinu o krivim stvarima:
17:23
which is to say that it's possible for them
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Što znači kako je za njih moguće
17:26
to have beliefs and desires that reliably lead
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da imaju vjerovanja i težnje koje pouzdano vode
17:28
to needless human suffering.
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do nepotrebne ljudske patnje.
17:30
Just admitting this will transform our discourse about morality.
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Samo priznanje ovoga će preobraziti naš govor o moralnosti.
17:35
We live in a world in which
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Živimo u svijetu u kojemu
17:38
the boundaries between nations mean less and less,
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granice između nacija znače sve manje i manje,
17:41
and they will one day mean nothing.
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i jednoga dana neće značiti ništa.
17:44
We live in a world filled with destructive technology,
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Živimo u svijetu prepunom razorne tehnologije,
17:46
and this technology cannot be uninvented;
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i tu tehnologiju ne možmo učiniti ne-izmišljenom,
17:48
it will always be easier
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uvijek će biti lakše
17:50
to break things than to fix them.
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pokidati stvari nego ih popraviti.
17:54
It seems to me, therefore, patently obvious
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Stoga mi se čini očitim
17:56
that we can no more
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da ne možemo
18:00
respect and tolerate
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poštivati i tolerirati
18:02
vast differences in notions of human well-being
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beskrajne razlike u poimanju ljudske dobrobiti,
18:06
than we can respect or tolerate vast differences
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ništa više nego što možemo tolerirati beskrajne razlike
18:09
in the notions about how disease spreads,
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u poimanju kako se bolesti šire,
18:12
or in the safety standards of buildings and airplanes.
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ili u sigurnosnim standardima zgrada i zrakoplova.
18:15
We simply must converge
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Jednostavno moramo konvergirati
18:18
on the answers we give to the most important questions in human life.
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u odgovorima koje dajemo na najvažnija pitanja ljudskog života.
18:22
And to do that, we have to admit that these questions have answers.
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A da bi to učinili, moramo priznati da ta pitanja imaju odgovore.
18:27
Thank you very much.
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Hvala vam puno.
18:29
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
18:52
Chris Anderson: So, some combustible material there.
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Chris Anderson: Dakle, nešto zapaljivog materijala.
18:56
Whether in this audience or people elsewhere in the world,
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Bilo u ovoj publici ili među ljudima drugdje u svijetu
18:59
hearing some of this, may well be doing the
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kada čuju nešto od ovoga, ljudi bi mogli
19:01
screaming-with-rage thing, after as well, some of them.
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vikati od bijesa.
19:06
Language seems to be really important here.
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Čini se kako je jezik ovdje zaista bitan.
19:08
When you're talking about the veil,
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Kada govoriš o velu,
19:10
you're talking about women dressed in cloth bags.
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govoriš o ženama koje su obučene u krpene vreće,
19:13
I've lived in the Muslim world, spoken with a lot of Muslim women.
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Ja sam živio u Muslimanskom svijetu, razgovarao sa mnogim Muslimanskim ženama.
19:17
And some of them would say something else. They would say,
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I neke od njih kažu nešto drugo. Kažu,
19:19
"No, you know, this is a celebration
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"Ovo je slavlje
19:22
of female specialness,
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ženske posebnosti
19:25
it helps build that and it's a result of the fact that" --
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pomaže da se ona sagradi i to je rezultat činjenice da...",
19:27
and this is arguably a sophisticated psychological view --
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i to je uvjerljivi sofisticirani psihološki pogled,
19:31
"that male lust is not to be trusted."
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"da muškoj požudi ne treba vjerovati."
19:34
I mean, can you engage in a conversation
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Hoću reći, možeš li se upustiti u razgovor
19:37
with that kind of woman without seeming kind of cultural imperialist?
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s takvom ženom bez da se čini kako si kulturni imperijalist.
19:42
Sam Harris: Yeah, well I think I tried to broach this in a sentence,
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Sam Harris: Da, mislim kako sam pokušao osvrnuti se na to u jednoj rečenici
19:45
watching the clock ticking,
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gledajući kako sat otkucava,
19:47
but the question is:
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ali pitanje je,
19:49
What is voluntary in a context
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što je dobrovoljno u okruženju
19:52
where men have certain expectations,
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gdje muškarci imaju određena očekivanja,
19:54
and you're guaranteed to be treated in a certain way
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i gdje je osigurano kako će se prema tebi odnositi na određeni način
19:58
if you don't veil yourself?
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ako se ne prekriješ.
20:00
And so, if anyone in this room
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I, ako bi itko u ovoj prostoriji
20:02
wanted to wear a veil,
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htio nositi vel,
20:04
or a very funny hat, or tattoo their face --
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ili jako smiješan šešir, ili tetovirati svoje lice --
20:07
I think we should be free to voluntarily do whatever we want,
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mislim kako bi trebali biti slobodni raditi što god žele,
20:10
but we have to be honest about
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ali moramo biti iskreni oko
20:13
the constraints that these women are placed under.
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ograničenja koja su postavljena na te žene.
20:15
And so I think we shouldn't be so eager
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I mislim kako ne bi trebali biti toliko nestrpljivi
20:18
to always take their word for it,
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da im povjerujemo na riječ,
20:20
especially when it's 120 degrees out
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pogotovo kada je vani 50°C
20:22
and you're wearing a full burqa.
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a one nose burku.
20:25
CA: A lot of people want to believe in this
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C.A.: Mnogi ljudi žele vjerovati u
20:27
concept of moral progress.
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taj koncept moralnog napretka.
20:29
But can you reconcile that?
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Ali možeš li uskladiti to?
20:31
I think I understood you to say that you could
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Mislim kako sam te razumio kada kažeš da bi mogao
20:33
reconcile that with a world that doesn't become
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to uskladiti sa svijetom koji neće postati
20:35
one dimensional, where we all have to think the same.
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jedno-dimenzionalan, gdje svi moramo misliti isto.
20:38
Paint your picture of what
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Reci nam,
20:40
rolling the clock 50 years forward,
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za 50 godina unaprijed,
20:43
100 years forward, how you would like to think of
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100 godina unaprijed, kako se nadaš da će svijet izgledati,
20:45
the world, balancing moral progress
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balansirajući moralni napredak
20:48
with richness.
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s bogatstvom.
20:51
SH: Well, I think once you admit
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S.H.: Mislim da, kada jednom priznamo
20:53
that we are on the path toward understanding our minds
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kako smo na putu prema razumjevanju naših umova
20:56
at the level of the brain in some important detail,
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na razini mozga, u nekim važnim pojedinostima,
20:59
then you have to admit
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onda možemo priznati
21:01
that we are going to understand all of the positive
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kako ćemo razumjeti sve naše pozitivne
21:05
and negative qualities
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i negativne kvalitete
21:07
of ourselves in much greater detail.
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u puno više detalja.
21:09
So, we're going to understand positive social emotion
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Razumjet ćemo pozitivne socijalne emocije
21:11
like empathy and compassion,
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kao što su empatija i suosjećanje.
21:13
and we're going to understand the factors
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I razumjet ćemo činitelje
21:15
that encourage it -- whether they're genetic,
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koji ih potiču, bilo da su genetski,
21:17
whether they're how people talk to one another,
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bilo da su način na koji ljudi razgovaraju,
21:19
whether they're economic systems,
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bilo da su ekonomski sustavi.
21:21
and insofar as we begin to shine light on that
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Ukoliko to počnemo osvjetljavati,
21:24
we are inevitably going to converge
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neizbježno ćemo konvergirati
21:26
on that fact space.
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u tom području činjenica.
21:28
So, everything is not going to be up for grabs.
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Neće sve biti na pladnju.
21:30
It's not going to be like
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Neće biti tako da je
21:33
veiling my daughter from birth
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pokrivanje kćeri velom od rođenja
21:35
is just as good as teaching her
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jednako dobro kao što je učiti ju
21:38
to be confident and well-educated
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da bude samopouzdana i dobro obrazovana
21:42
in the context of men who do desire women.
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u okruženju muškaraca koji imaju želju za ženama.
21:45
I mean I don't think we need an NSF grant to know
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Hoću reći da nam ne treba NSF nagrada da znamo
21:49
that compulsory veiling is a bad idea --
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kako kompulzivno pokrivanje velom nije dobra ideja,
21:52
but at a certain point
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ali u određenom trenutku
21:54
we're going to be able to scan the brains of everyone involved
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ćemo moći skenirati mozak svih koji su uključeni
21:57
and actually interrogate them.
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i stvarno ih ispitati.
22:00
Do people love their daughters
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Vole li ljudi jednako svoje kćeri
22:03
just as much in these systems?
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u tim sustavima?
22:06
And I think there are clearly right answers to that.
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I mislim da očito postoje točni odgovori na to.
22:08
CA: And if the results come out that actually they do,
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C.A.:I ako rezultat bude kako ih zaista vole jednako,
22:11
are you prepared to shift your instinctive current judgment
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jesi li spreman promjeniti svoje trenutno mišljenje
22:14
on some of these issues?
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o nekima od ovih stvari?
22:16
SH: Well yeah, modulo one obvious fact,
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S.H.: Pa da, po modulu jasna je činjenica
22:19
that you can love someone
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kako možeš voljeti nekoga
22:21
in the context of a truly delusional belief system.
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u kontekstu sustava vjerovanja koji je u zabludi.
22:24
So, you can say like, "Because I knew my gay son
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Možete reći: "Zato što sam znao kako će moj sin homoseksualac
22:26
was going to go to hell if he found a boyfriend,
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ići u pakao ako nađe dečka,
22:29
I chopped his head off. And that was the most compassionate thing I could do."
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odrezao sam mu glavu. I to je bila najsuosjećajnija stvar koju sam mogao napraviti."
22:32
If you get all those parts aligned,
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Ako poslažemo sve te dijelove,
22:34
yes I think you could probably be feeling the emotion of love.
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mislim kako je moguće osjećati emociju ljubavi.
22:37
But again, then we have to talk about
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Ali opet, tada moramo govoriti o
22:39
well-being in a larger context.
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dobrobiti u većem kontekstu.
22:41
It's all of us in this together,
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Svi smo mi u ovome zajedno,
22:43
not one man feeling ecstasy
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a ne da jedan čovjek bude u ekstazi
22:47
and then blowing himself up on a bus.
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i onda se raznese u autobusu.
22:49
CA: Sam, this is a conversation I would actually love to
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C.A.: Zvuči kao razgovor koji bi ja volio
22:51
continue for hours.
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nastaviti satima.
22:53
We don't have that, but maybe another time. Thank you for coming to TED.
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Nemamo toliko, ali možda neki drugi put. Hvala ti što si došao na TED.
22:55
SH: Really an honor. Thank you.
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S.H.: Zaista mi je čast. Hvala.
22:57
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sam Harris - Neuroscientist, philosopherSam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.
Why you should listen
Sam Harris is the author of five New York Times bestsellers. His books include The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, Waking Up and Islam and the Future of Tolerance (with Maajid Nawaz). The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction. Harris's writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics -- neuroscience, moral philosophy, religion, spirituality, violence, human reasoning -- but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.
Harris's work has been published in more than 20 languages and has been discussed in the New York Times, Time, Scientific American, Nature, Newsweek, Rolling Stone and many other journals. He has written for the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Economist, The Times (London), the Boston Globe, The Atlantic, The Annals of Neurology and elsewhere. Harris also regularly hosts a popular podcast.
Harris received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.
Sam Harris | Speaker | TED.com