TED2010
Sam Harris: Science can answer moral questions
Sem Haris: Nauka može da da odgovore na moralna pitanja
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Obično se smatra da na pitanja kao što su dobro i zlo, ispravno i pogrešno nauka nema odgovore. Ali Sem Haris (Sam Harris) objašnjava da nauka može - i da bi trebalo - da bude autoritet za moralne teme, oblikovanje ljudskih vrednosti određivanje šta čini dobar život.
Sam Harris - Neuroscientist, philosopher
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live. Full bio
Sam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I'm going to speak today about the relationship
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Danas ću pričati o vezi
00:18
between science and human values.
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između nauke i ljudskih vrednosti.
00:22
Now, it's generally understood that
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Uopšteno se smatra da su
00:24
questions of morality --
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pitanja morala -
00:26
questions of good and evil and right and wrong --
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šta je dobro i zlo, ispravno i pogrešno -
00:28
are questions about which science officially has no opinion.
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pitanja o kojima nauka zvanično nema mišljenje.
00:31
It's thought that science can help us
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Smatra se da nam nauka može pomoći
00:34
get what we value,
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da razumemo ono što vrednujemo,
00:36
but it can never tell us what we ought to value.
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ali da nam nikada ne može reći šta bi trebalo da vrednujemo.
00:39
And, consequently, most people -- I think most people
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I posledično, većina ljudi - mislim i većina ljudi
00:41
probably here -- think that science will never answer
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ovde, verovatno - misli da nauka nikada neće odgovoriti
00:44
the most important questions in human life:
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na najvažnija pitanja u ljudskom životu:
00:47
questions like, "What is worth living for?"
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na pitanja kao što su, "Za šta vredi živeti?"
00:49
"What is worth dying for?"
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"Za šta vredi umreti?"
00:51
"What constitutes a good life?"
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"Šta čini dobar život?"
00:53
So, I'm going to argue
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Tvrdiću vam
00:55
that this is an illusion -- that the separation between
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da je to iluzija - da je podela između
00:57
science and human values is an illusion --
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nauke i ljudskih vrednosti iluzija -
00:59
and actually quite a dangerous one
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i to prilično opasna
01:02
at this point in human history.
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u ovom momentu ljudske istorije.
01:04
Now, it's often said that science
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Sada, često se kaže da nauka
01:06
cannot give us a foundation for morality and human values,
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ne može da nam pruži osnovu za moral i vrednosti,
01:09
because science deals with facts,
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jer nauka se bavi činjenicama,
01:12
and facts and values seem to belong to different spheres.
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a činjenice i vrednosti izgleda priradaju različitim sferama.
01:16
It's often thought that there's no description
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Često se misli da ne postoji opis
01:19
of the way the world is
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sveta takvog kakav je,
01:21
that can tell us how the world ought to be.
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koji nam može reći kakav bi svet trebalo da bude.
01:25
But I think this is quite clearly untrue.
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Ali ja mislim da je ovo očigledno neistinito.
01:27
Values are a certain kind of fact.
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Vrednosti su neka vrsta činjenice.
01:31
They are facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.
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One su činjenice o dobrobiti svesnih bića.
01:35
Why is it that we don't have ethical obligations toward rocks?
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Zašto nemamo etičke obaveze prema kamenju?
01:39
Why don't we feel compassion for rocks?
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Zašto ne saosećamo sa kamenjem?
01:42
It's because we don't think rocks can suffer. And if we're more
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Zato što ne mislimo da kamenje može da pati. I ako smo
01:44
concerned about our fellow primates
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zabrinutiji za naše primate
01:46
than we are about insects, as indeed we are,
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nego za insekte, kao što i jesmo,
01:49
it's because we think they're exposed to a greater range
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to je zato što smatramo da su oni izloženiji većem stepenu
01:51
of potential happiness and suffering.
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potencijalne sreće i patnje.
01:54
Now, the crucial thing to notice here
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Ključna stvar koju treba primetiti ovde
01:57
is that this is a factual claim:
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je da je to činjenična tvrdnja:
01:59
This is something that we could be right or wrong about. And if we
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ovo je nešto u vezi s čim smo u pravu ili ne. I ako smo
02:01
have misconstrued the relationship between biological complexity
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pogrešno razumeli vezu između biološke složenosti
02:04
and the possibilities of experience
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i mogućnostima za iskustvo,
02:07
well then we could be wrong about the inner lives of insects.
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onda možda grešimo i u vezi sa unutrašnjim životom insekata.
02:10
And there's no notion,
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I ne postoji nijedna ideja,
02:14
no version of human morality
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nijedna verzija ljudske moralnosti
02:16
and human values that I've ever come across
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i ljudskih vrednosti na koju sam naišao
02:19
that is not at some point reducible
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a koja u jednom momentu ne može da se svede
02:21
to a concern about conscious experience
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na brigu u vezi sa svesnim doživljavanjem
02:24
and its possible changes.
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i njegovim potencijalnim promenama.
02:26
Even if you get your values from religion,
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Čak i ako usvajate vrednosti iz religije,
02:29
even if you think that good and evil ultimately
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čak i ako mislite da se dobro i zlo na kraju
02:31
relate to conditions after death --
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odnose na uslove posle smrti -
02:33
either to an eternity of happiness with God
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bilo na večnu sreću sa bogom
02:36
or an eternity of suffering in hell --
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ili na večnu patnju u paklu -
02:38
you are still concerned about consciousness and its changes.
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i dalje ste zabrinuti za svesnost i njene promene.
02:42
And to say that such changes can persist after death
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A reći da te promene opstaju i posle smrti
02:45
is itself a factual claim,
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je po sebi činjenična izjava
02:47
which, of course, may or may not be true.
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koja može i ne mora biti istinita, naravno.
02:50
Now, to speak about the conditions of well-being
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Sada, ako pričamo o uslovima dobrobiti
02:53
in this life, for human beings,
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u ovom životu, za ljude,
02:55
we know that there is a continuum of such facts.
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znamo da postoji kontinuum takvih činjenica.
02:58
We know that it's possible to live in a failed state,
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Znamo da je moguće živeti u propaloj državi,
03:01
where everything that can go wrong does go wrong --
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gde sve što može da pođe naopako i polazi naopako,
03:03
where mothers cannot feed their children,
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gde majke ne mogu da nahrane svoju decu,
03:06
where strangers cannot find the basis for peaceful collaboration,
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gde stranci ne mogu da nađu osnovu za mirnu saradnju,
03:10
where people are murdered indiscriminately.
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gde se ljudi ubijaju nasumično.
03:13
And we know that it's possible to move along this continuum
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I znamo da je moguće kretati se po ovom kontinuumu,
03:16
towards something quite a bit more idyllic,
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prema nečemu više idiličnom,
03:18
to a place where a conference like this is even conceivable.
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ka mestu gde je konferencija kao ova sasvim moguća.
03:23
And we know -- we know --
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Mi znamo - znamo -
03:26
that there are right and wrong answers
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da postoje tačni i pogrešni odgovori
03:28
to how to move in this space.
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na to kako se kretati u ovom prostoru.
03:30
Would adding cholera to the water be a good idea?
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Da li bi dodavanje kolere u vodu bilo dobra ideja?
03:36
Probably not.
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Verovatno ne.
03:38
Would it be a good idea for everyone to believe in the evil eye,
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Da li bi bila dobra ideja da svi veruju u kletve,
03:41
so that when bad things happened to them
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tako da kad im se dese loše stvari
03:43
they immediately blame their neighbors? Probably not.
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svi odmah okrive svoje komšije? Verovatno ne.
03:47
There are truths to be known
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Postoje istine
03:49
about how human communities flourish,
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o tome kako se ljudska društva razvijaju
03:52
whether or not we understand these truths.
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bilo da ih mi razumemo ili ne.
03:54
And morality relates to these truths.
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A moral je u vezi sa ovim istinama.
03:57
So, in talking about values we are talking about facts.
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Dakle, kada pričamo o vrednostima, mi govorimo o činjenicama.
04:01
Now, of course our situation in the world can be understood at many levels --
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Naša svetska situacija može se razumeti na mnogim nivoima -
04:04
from the level of the genome
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počevši od nivoa genoma
04:06
on up to the level of economic systems
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do nivoa ekonomskih sistema
04:08
and political arrangements.
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i političkih uređenja.
04:10
But if we're going to talk about human well-being
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ali ako ćemo da govorimo o ljudskoj dobrobiti,
04:12
we are, of necessity, talking about the human brain.
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potrebno je da govorimo o ljudskom mozgu.
04:15
Because we know that our experience of the world and of ourselves within it
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Jer znamo da se naše doživljavanje sveta i nas samih u okviru sveta
04:18
is realized in the brain --
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dešava u mozgu -
04:21
whatever happens after death.
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šta god da se dešava posle smrti.
04:23
Even if the suicide bomber does get 72 virgins in the afterlife,
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Čak i ako bombaš samoubica dobije svoje 72 device u zagrobnom životu,
04:28
in this life, his personality --
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u ovom životu njegova ličnost -
04:31
his rather unfortunate personality --
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njegova prilično nesrećna ličnost -
04:33
is the product of his brain.
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proizvod je njegovog mozga.
04:36
So the contributions of culture --
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Dakle - doprinosi kulture -
04:39
if culture changes us, as indeed it does,
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ako nas kultura menja, a zaista je tako,
04:41
it changes us by changing our brains.
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menja nas menjajući naše mozgove.
04:43
And so therefore whatever cultural variation there is
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Dakle, kakva god da postoji kulturalna varijacija
04:46
in how human beings flourish
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u tome kako se ljudi razvijaju,
04:48
can, at least in principle, be understood
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ona može, barem u principu, da se razume
04:50
in the context of a maturing science of the mind --
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u kontekstu sazrevanja nauke o mozgu -
04:53
neuroscience, psychology, etc.
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neurologije, psihologije, itd.
04:56
So, what I'm arguing is that
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Znači, ono što govorim je
04:58
value's reduced to facts --
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da se vrednost može svesti na činjenice -
05:00
to facts about the conscious experience
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činjenice o svesnom iskustvu -
05:02
of conscious beings.
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svesnih bića.
05:05
And we can therefore visualize a space
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Mi dakle možemo vizualizovati prostor
05:08
of possible changes in the experience of these beings.
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mogućih promena u iskustvu ovih bića.
05:11
And I think of this as kind of a moral landscape,
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O ovome razmišljam kao o moralnom predelu,
05:13
with peaks and valleys that correspond
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sa vrhovima i dolinama koje su jednake
05:15
to differences in the well-being of conscious creatures,
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razlikama u dobrobiti svesnih bića,
05:18
both personal and collective.
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pojedinačnim i kolektivnim.
05:20
And one thing to notice is that perhaps
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I primetimo da verovatno
05:22
there are states of human well-being
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postoje stanja ljudske dobrobiti
05:24
that we rarely access, that few people access.
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kojima retko pristupamo, kojima malo ljudi pristupa.
05:27
And these await our discovery.
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Ona čekaju da ih otkrijemo.
05:29
Perhaps some of these states can be appropriately called
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Možda neka od ovih stanja možemo nazvati
05:31
mystical or spiritual.
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mističnim ili spiritualnim.
05:33
Perhaps there are other states that we can't access
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Možda postoje neka druga stanja kojima ne možemo
05:35
because of how our minds are structured
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pristupiti zbog strukture svog uma,
05:38
but other minds possibly could access them.
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ali neki drugi umovi bi možda mogli da im pristupe.
05:42
Now, let me be clear about what I'm not saying. I'm not saying
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Da razjasnim ono o čemu ne govorim. Ne govorim
05:44
that science is guaranteed to map this space,
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da će nauka sigurno mapirati ovaj prostor,
05:49
or that we will have scientific answers to every
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ili da ćemo imati naučni odgovor na svako
05:51
conceivable moral question.
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postavljeno moralno pitanje.
05:53
I don't think, for instance, that you will one day consult
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Ne mislim, na primer, da ćete jednog dana pitati
05:55
a supercomputer to learn whether you should have a second child,
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neki superkompjuter da li bi trebalo da imate drugo dete,
05:59
or whether we should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities,
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ili da li bi trebalo da bombardujemo nuklearna postrojenja u Iranu
06:03
or whether you can deduct the full cost of TED as a business expense.
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ili da li možete puni trošak za TED da uračunate u poslovne troškove.
06:07
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
06:09
But if questions affect human well-being
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Ali ako pitanja utiču na dobrobit ljudi,
06:11
then they do have answers, whether or not we can find them.
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onda moraju postojati odgovori, bilo da ih možemo pronaći ili ne.
06:14
And just admitting this --
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Samo priznati to -
06:16
just admitting that there are right and wrong answers
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priznati da postoje tačni i pogrešni odgovori
06:18
to the question of how humans flourish --
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na pitanje kako se ljudi razvijaju -
06:20
will change the way we talk about morality,
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promeniće način na koji pričamo o moralnosti
06:22
and will change our expectations
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i promeniće naša očekivanja
06:24
of human cooperation in the future.
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o ljudskoj saradnji u budućnosti.
06:28
For instance, there are 21 states in our country
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Na primer, u našoj zemlji je u 21. državi
06:32
where corporal punishment in the classroom is legal,
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dozvoljeno fizičko kažnjavanje u školi:
06:35
where it is legal for a teacher to beat a child with a wooden board, hard,
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gde je legalno da učitelj tuče dete drvenom pločom, jako,
06:41
and raising large bruises and blisters and even breaking the skin.
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što izaziva velike modrice i plikove i čak i posekotine.
06:45
And hundreds of thousands of children, incidentally,
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I stotine hiljada dece je, usput,
06:47
are subjected to this every year.
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izloženo ovome svake godine.
06:49
The locations of these enlightened districts, I think, will fail to surprise you.
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Mislim da vas neće iznenaditi gde su ove prosvetljene oblasti.
06:54
We're not talking about Connecticut.
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Ne pričamo o Konektikatu.
06:57
And the rationale for this behavior is explicitly religious.
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A objašnjenje ovakvog ponašanja je u religiji.
07:01
The creator of the universe himself
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Sam Kreator univerzuma nam je
07:03
has told us not to spare the rod,
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rekao da "ko žali prut
07:05
lest we spoil the child --
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mrzi na sina svojega".
07:07
this is in Proverbs 13 and 20, and I believe, 23.
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Ovo se nalazi u pričama Solomunovim, glava 13, 20 i 23.
07:12
But we can ask the obvious question:
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Ali možemo postaviti očigledno pitanje:
07:14
Is it a good idea, generally speaking,
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da li je, uopšteno govoreći, dobra ideja
07:18
to subject children to pain
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izložiti decu bolu
07:21
and violence and public humiliation
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i nasilju i javnom poniženju
07:24
as a way of encouraging healthy emotional development
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u svrhu podsticanja zdravog emocionalnog razvoja
07:26
and good behavior?
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i lepog ponašanja?
07:28
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
07:29
Is there any doubt
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Postoji li bilo kakva sumnja
07:33
that this question has an answer,
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u to da postoji odgovor na ovo pitanje
07:35
and that it matters?
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i da je on bitan?
07:38
Now, many of you might worry
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Sad, mnogi od vas možda brinu
07:40
that the notion of well-being is truly undefined,
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da je ideja dobrobiti zapravo nedefinisana
07:43
and seemingly perpetually open to be re-construed.
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i naizgled otvorena za rekonstrukciju.
07:46
And so, how therefore can there be an
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U tom slučaju, kako može postojati
07:48
objective notion of well-being?
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objektivna ideja dobrobiti?
07:51
Well, consider by analogy, the concept of physical health.
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Pa, razmislite analogno, koncept fizičkog zdravlja.
07:54
The concept of physical health is undefined.
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Koncept fizičkog zdravlja je nedefinisan.
07:57
As we just heard from Michael Specter, it has changed over the years.
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Kao što smo upravo čuli od Majkla Spektora, menjao se tokom godina.
08:00
When this statue was carved
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Kada je ova statua napravljena
08:02
the average life expectancy was probably 30.
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prosečan životni vek je verovatno bio 30 godina.
08:05
It's now around 80 in the developed world.
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Sada je oko 80 godina u razvijenom svetu.
08:08
There may come a time when we meddle with our genomes
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Možda će doći vreme kada ćemo promeniti genom
08:11
in such a way that not being able to run a marathon
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tako da će se nemogućnost da istrčite maraton
08:14
at age 200 will be considered a profound disability.
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sa 200 godina smatrati izuzetnom nesposobnošću.
08:18
People will send you donations when you're in that condition.
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Ljudi će vam slati donacije kad ste u takvom stanju.
08:21
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
08:23
Notice that the fact that the concept of health
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Primetite da činjenica da je koncept zdravlja
08:27
is open, genuinely open for revision,
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otvoren, zaista otvoren za razmatranje
08:30
does not make it vacuous.
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ne znači da je beznačajan.
08:32
The distinction between a healthy person
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Razlika između zdrave
08:35
and a dead one
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i mrtve osobe
08:37
is about as clear and consequential as any we make in science.
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je jasna i značajna kao bilo koja u nauci.
08:43
Another thing to notice is there may be many peaks on the moral landscape:
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Treba primetiti i da možda ima puno vrhova u moralnom predelu:
08:46
There may be equivalent ways to thrive;
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možda postoje jednaki načini za razvoj;
08:49
there may be equivalent ways to organize a human society
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možda postoje jednaki načini da se organizuje ljudsko društvo
08:51
so as to maximize human flourishing.
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tako da se maksimizira ljudski razvoj.
08:53
Now, why wouldn't this
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Zašto ovo ne bi
08:55
undermine an objective morality?
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oslabilo objektivnu moralnost?
08:59
Well think of how we talk about food:
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Pa razmislite o tome kako govorimo o hrani:
09:02
I would never be tempted to argue to you
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nikada se ne bih usudio da vas ubeđujem
09:05
that there must be one right food to eat.
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da mora postojati jedna ispravna hrana za jelo.
09:07
There is clearly a range of materials
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Očigledno postoji čitav niz materija
09:09
that constitute healthy food.
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koje čine zdravu hranu.
09:11
But there's nevertheless a clear distinction
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Ali ipak je jasna razlika
09:13
between food and poison.
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između hrane i otrova.
09:15
The fact that there are many right answers
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Činjenica da postoji mnogo tačnih odgovora
09:18
to the question, "What is food?"
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na pitanje, "Šta je hrana?"
09:20
does not tempt us
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ne čini
09:23
to say that there are no truths to be known about human nutrition.
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da kažemo kako ne postoje istine o ljudskoj ishrani.
09:28
Many people worry
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Mnogi ljudi brinu da
09:30
that a universal morality would require
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bi univerzalna moralnost zahtevala
09:33
moral precepts that admit of no exceptions.
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moralne poglede koji ne priznaju izuzetke.
09:36
So, for instance, if it's really wrong to lie,
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Tako na primer, ako je izuzetno loše lagati,
09:38
it must always be wrong to lie,
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mora uvek biti loše lagati
09:40
and if you can find an exception,
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i ako možete naći izuzetak,
09:42
well then there's no such thing as moral truth.
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onda ne postoji tako nešto kao moralna istina.
09:45
Why would we think this?
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Zašto bismo ovako mislili?
09:47
Consider, by analogy, the game of chess.
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Razmislite, analogno, o partiji šaha.
09:50
Now, if you're going to play good chess,
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Sad, ako ćete dobro da igrate šah,
09:52
a principle like, "Don't lose your Queen,"
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vrlo je dobro pridržavati se
09:54
is very good to follow.
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principa "Nemoj da izgubiš kraljicu".
09:56
But it clearly admits some exceptions.
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Ali očigledno on dozvoljava izuzetke.
09:58
There are moments when losing your Queen is a brilliant thing to do.
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Postoje trenuci kada je izgubiti kraljicu sjajna stvar koju možete da uradite.
10:01
There are moments when it is the only good thing you can do.
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Postoje trenuci kada je to jedina dobra stvar koju možete da uradite.
10:05
And yet, chess is a domain of perfect objectivity.
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A ipak, šah je domen savršene objektivnosti.
10:09
The fact that there are exceptions here does not
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Činjenica da ovde postoje izuzeci
10:11
change that at all.
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to uopšte ne menja.
10:14
Now, this brings us to the sorts of moves
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Sad, to nas dovodi do nekih poteza
10:17
that people are apt to make in the moral sphere.
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koje su ljudi skloni da čine u moralnoj sferi.
10:20
Consider the great problem of women's bodies:
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Razmislite o velikom problemu ženskih tela:
10:25
What to do about them?
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šta raditi u vezi sa njima?
10:27
Well this is one thing you can do about them:
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Pa, ovo je jedna stvar koju možete uraditi,
10:29
You can cover them up.
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možete ih pokriti.
10:31
Now, it is the position, generally speaking, of our intellectual community
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Sad, pozicija, uopšteno govoreći, naše intelektualne zajednice
10:33
that while we may not like this,
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je da, dok nam se možda ne sviđa to,
10:37
we might think of this as "wrong"
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ili mislimo da je "pogrešno",
10:39
in Boston or Palo Alto,
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u Bostonu ili Palo Altu,
10:41
who are we to say
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ko smo mi da kažemo
10:43
that the proud denizens of an ancient culture
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da ponosni stanovnici starih kultura
10:46
are wrong to force their wives and daughters
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greše kada primoravaju svoje supruge i ćerke
10:49
to live in cloth bags?
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da žive u krpenim kesama?
10:51
And who are we to say, even, that they're wrong
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I ko smo mi da kažemo da greše čak
10:53
to beat them with lengths of steel cable,
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i kad ih tuku dugačkim čeličnim kablovima,
10:55
or throw battery acid in their faces
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ili im sipaju kiselinu u lica
10:57
if they decline the privilege of being smothered in this way?
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ako odbiju privilegiju da budu ovako ugušene?
11:01
Well, who are we not to say this?
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Pa, ko smo mi da to ne kažemo?
11:04
Who are we to pretend
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Ko smo mi da se pretvaramo
11:06
that we know so little about human well-being
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da znamo tako malo o ljudskoj dobrobiti
11:10
that we have to be non-judgmental about a practice like this?
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da ne smemo da osuđujemo ovakvu praksu?
11:14
I'm not talking about voluntary wearing of a veil --
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Ne govorim o dobrovoljnom nošenju vela -
11:18
women should be able to wear whatever they want, as far as I'm concerned.
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žene treba da mogu da nose šta god žele, što se mene tiče.
11:20
But what does voluntary mean
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Ali šta znači dobrovoljno
11:23
in a community where,
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u zajednici gde,
11:25
when a girl gets raped,
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kada je devojka silovana,
11:28
her father's first impulse,
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prva reakcija njenog oca
11:30
rather often, is to murder her out of shame?
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prilično često, je da je ubije zbog srama?
11:35
Just let that fact detonate in your brain for a minute:
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Neka vam ova činjenica odzvanja malo u glavi:
11:42
Your daughter gets raped,
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ćerka vam je silovana,
11:44
and what you want to do is kill her.
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a vi želite da je ubijete.
11:52
What are the chances that represents
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Koje su šanse da ovo predstavlja
11:54
a peak of human flourishing?
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vrhunac ljudskog razvoja?
12:02
Now, to say this is not to say that we have got the
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Sad, kad to kažem, ne kažem da imamo
12:04
perfect solution in our own society.
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savršeno rešenje u sopstvenom društvu.
12:08
For instance,
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Na primer,
12:10
this is what it's like to go to a newsstand almost anywhere
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ovako izgleda odlazak na trafiku skoro bilo gde
12:12
in the civilized world.
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u civilizovanom svetu.
12:14
Now, granted, for many men
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Sada, mnogim muškarcima
12:16
it may require a degree in philosophy to see something wrong with these images.
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je možda potrebna diploma iz filozofije da vide nešto pogrešno na ovim slikama.
12:19
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
12:22
But if we are in a reflective mood,
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Ali ako smo raspoloženi da razmislimo,
12:25
we can ask,
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možemo pitati,
12:27
"Is this the perfect expression
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"Da li je ovo savršen izraz
12:29
of psychological balance
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psihološke ravnoteže
12:31
with respect to variables like youth and beauty and women's bodies?"
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na teme mladosti i lepote i ženskih tela?"
12:34
I mean, is this the optimal environment
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Mislim, da li je ovo optimalno okruženje
12:36
in which to raise our children?
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za odgajanje naše dece?
12:40
Probably not. OK, so perhaps there's some place
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Verovatno nije. Ok, verovatno postoji neko mesto
12:42
on the spectrum
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na spektru
12:44
between these two extremes
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između ova dva ekstrema,
12:46
that represents a place of better balance.
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koje predstavlja mesto bolje ravnoteže.
12:49
(Applause)
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(aplauz)
12:57
Perhaps there are many such places --
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Verovatno postoji mnogo takvih mesta -
12:59
again, given other changes in human culture
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opet, s obzirom na druge promene u ljudskoj kulturi
13:02
there may be many peaks on the moral landscape.
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možda ima mnogo vrhova na moralnom terenu.
13:04
But the thing to notice is that there will be
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Ali treba primetiti da će biti
13:06
many more ways not to be on a peak.
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mnogo više načina da se ne bude na vrhu.
13:11
Now the irony, from my perspective,
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Sad, s moje tačke gledišta, ironija je
13:13
is that the only people who seem to generally agree with me
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da su jedini ljudi koji se u načelu slažu sa mnom
13:16
and who think that there are right and wrong answers to moral questions
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i koji misle da postoje tačni i pogrešni odgovori na moralna pitanja
13:19
are religious demagogues of one form or another.
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su religiozni demagozi neke vrste.
13:22
And of course they think they have right answers to moral questions
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I naravno, oni misle da imaju tačne odgovore na moralna pitanja
13:25
because they got these answers from a voice in a whirlwind,
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zato što su oni svoje odgovore dobili od glasa u vrtlogu,
13:29
not because they made an intelligent analysis of the causes
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ne zato što su inteligentno analizirali uzroke
13:31
and condition of human and animal well-being.
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i uslov ljudske i životinjske dobrobiti.
13:35
In fact, the endurance of religion
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Zapravo, izdržljivost religije
13:37
as a lens through which most people view moral questions
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kao naočara kroz koje većina ljudi posmatra moralna pitanja,
13:41
has separated most moral talk
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odvojilo je većinu moralnih razgovora
13:44
from real questions of human and animal suffering.
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od pravih pitanja ljudske i životinjske patnje.
13:48
This is why we spend our time
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Zato provodimo svoje vreme
13:50
talking about things like gay marriage
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pričajući o stvarima kao što su gej brakovi
13:52
and not about genocide or nuclear proliferation
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umesto o genocidu ili nuklearnom rastu
13:56
or poverty or any other hugely consequential issue.
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ili siromaštvu ili bilo kojoj stvarno bitnoj temi.
14:01
But the demagogues are right about one thing: We need
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Ali demagozi su u pravu u jednoj stvari, potrebno
14:03
a universal conception of human values.
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nam je univerzalno razumevanje ljudskih vrednosti.
14:07
Now, what stands in the way of this?
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Sad, šta je prepreka ovome?
14:09
Well, one thing to notice is that we
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Pa, za početak mi
14:11
do something different when talking about morality --
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radimo nešto drugačije kada pričamo o moralnosti -
14:13
especially secular, academic, scientist types.
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naročito o sekularnim, akademskim ili naučnim vrstama.
14:17
When talking about morality we value differences of opinion
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Kada pričamo o moralu mi vrednujemo različitost mišljenja
14:20
in a way that we don't in any other area of our lives.
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što nije slučaj kad se radi o bilo kojoj drugoj oblasti našeg života.
14:23
So, for instance the Dalai Lama gets up every morning
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Na primer, Dalaj Lama svakog justra ustaje
14:25
meditating on compassion,
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i meditira o saosećajnosti,
14:27
and he thinks that helping other human beings is an integral component
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i misli da je pomaganje drugim ljudskim bićima
14:29
of human happiness.
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bitna komponenta ljudske sreće.
14:32
On the other hand, we have someone like Ted Bundy;
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Sa druge strane imamo nekoga kao što je Ted Bandi:
14:34
Ted Bundy was very fond of abducting and raping
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Ted Bandi je veoma voleo da kidnapuje i siluje
14:36
and torturing and killing young women.
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i muči i ubija mlade žene.
14:38
So, we appear to have a genuine difference of opinion
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Dakle, izgleda da imamo veliku razliku u mišljenju
14:40
about how to profitably use one's time.
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o tome kako uspešno iskoristiti vreme.
14:43
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
14:45
Most Western intellectuals
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Većina zapadnih intelektualaca
14:47
look at this situation
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gleda na ovu situaciju
14:49
and say, "Well, there's nothing for the Dalai Lama
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i kaže, "Pa, Dalaj Lama i nema oko
14:51
to be really right about -- really right about --
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čega da bude u pravu - stvarno u pravu -
14:54
or for Ted Bundy to be really wrong about
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ili Ted Bandi da ne bude u pravu,
14:57
that admits of a real argument
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što bi činilo argument
15:01
that potentially falls within the purview of science.
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koji potencijalno spada u domen nauke.
15:04
He likes chocolate, he likes vanilla.
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Ovaj voli čokoladu, ovaj vanilu.
15:07
There's nothing that one should be able to say to the other
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Ne postoji ništa što bi jedan rekao drugome
15:10
that should persuade the other."
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što bi trebalo da ga ubedi."
15:13
Notice that we don't do this in science.
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Primetite da u nauci ovo ne radimo.
15:16
On the left you have Edward Witten.
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Sa leve strane je Edvard Viten.
15:18
He's a string theorist.
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On je teoretičar nizova.
15:21
If you ask the smartest physicists around
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Ako najpametnijeg fizičara u okolini pitate
15:23
who is the smartest physicist around,
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ko je najpametniji fizičar u okolini,
15:25
in my experience half of them will say Ed Witten.
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po mom iskustvu, pola njih će reći Ed Viten.
15:28
The other half will tell you they don't like the question.
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Druga polovina će vam reći da im se ne sviđa pitanje.
15:31
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
15:34
So, what would happen if I showed up at a physics conference
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Šta bi se desilo da se pojavim na konferenciji fizike
15:38
and said,"String theory is bogus.
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i kažem "Teorija nizova je glupost.
15:40
It doesn't resonate with me. It's not how I chose to
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Ne odgovara mi. Nije način na koji ja biram
15:42
view the universe at a small scale.
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da posmatram svet u malom.
15:45
I'm not a fan."
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Nisam ljubitelj toga."
15:47
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
15:50
Well, nothing would happen because I'm not a physicist;
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Ništa se ne bi desilo, jer ja nisam fizičar,
15:52
I don't understand string theory.
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ne razumem teoriju nizova.
15:54
I'm the Ted Bundy of string theory.
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Ja sam Ted Bandi u teoriji nizova.
15:56
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
15:59
I wouldn't want to belong to any string theory club that would have me as a member.
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Ne bih želeo da pripadam nijednom klubu teorije nizova koji bi me primio za člana.
16:02
But this is just the point.
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Ali u tome je poenta.
16:04
Whenever we are talking about facts
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Kad god govorimo o činjenicama,
16:07
certain opinions must be excluded.
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određena mišljena moraju da se isključe.
16:09
That is what it is to have a domain of expertise.
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To znači biti ekspert u nekom polju.
16:12
That is what it is for knowledge to count.
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To znači da se znanje računa.
16:15
How have we convinced ourselves
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Kako smo se ubedili u to
16:18
that in the moral sphere there is no such thing as moral expertise,
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da u moralnoj sferi ne postoji tako nešto kao moralna ekspertiza
16:22
or moral talent, or moral genius even?
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ili moralni talenat ili čak moralni genije?
16:25
How have we convinced ourselves
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Kako smo se ubedili
16:27
that every opinion has to count?
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da svako mišljenje mora da se računa?
16:29
How have we convinced ourselves
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Kako smo se ubedili
16:31
that every culture has a point of view
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da svaka kultura ima tačku gledišta
16:33
on these subjects worth considering?
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o ovim temama koju je vredno uzeti u obzir?
16:36
Does the Taliban
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Da li jedan Taliban
16:38
have a point of view on physics
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ima mišljenje o fizici
16:40
that is worth considering? No.
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koje je vredno uzimanja u obzir? Ne.
16:43
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
16:48
How is their ignorance any less obvious
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Kako je njihovo neznanje manje očigledno
16:51
on the subject of human well-being?
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na temu ljudske dobrobiti?
16:53
(Applause)
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(aplauz)
16:59
So, this, I think, is what the world needs now.
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Dakle, mislim da je ovo potrebno svetu u ovom trenutku.
17:03
It needs people like ourselves to admit
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Potrebni su ljudi kao mi da priznaju
17:06
that there are right and wrong answers
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da postoje ispravni i pogrešni odgovori
17:09
to questions of human flourishing,
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na pitanja o ljudskom razvoju,
17:11
and morality relates
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a moral se odnosi
17:13
to that domain of facts.
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na taj domen činjenica.
17:15
It is possible
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Moguće je
17:17
for individuals, and even for whole cultures,
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da je pojedincima, pa čak i čitavim kulturama,
17:21
to care about the wrong things,
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stalo do pogrešnih stvari:
17:23
which is to say that it's possible for them
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što znači da je moguće da oni
17:26
to have beliefs and desires that reliably lead
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imaju verovanja i težnje koje sigurno vode
17:28
to needless human suffering.
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nepotrebnoj ljudskoj patnji.
17:30
Just admitting this will transform our discourse about morality.
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Samo priznavanje ovoga će promeniti naš diskurs o moralnosti.
17:35
We live in a world in which
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Živimo u svetu u kom
17:38
the boundaries between nations mean less and less,
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granice među nacijama sve manje znače,
17:41
and they will one day mean nothing.
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a jednoga dana neće ništa značiti.
17:44
We live in a world filled with destructive technology,
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Živimo u svetu ispunjenom destruktivnom tehnologijom,
17:46
and this technology cannot be uninvented;
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koja ne može da se učini ne-izmišljenom,
17:48
it will always be easier
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uvek će biti lakše
17:50
to break things than to fix them.
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pokvariti nego popraviti stvari.
17:54
It seems to me, therefore, patently obvious
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Meni se čini prilično očiglednim
17:56
that we can no more
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da više ne možemo
18:00
respect and tolerate
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da poštujemo i tolerišemo
18:02
vast differences in notions of human well-being
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ogromne razlike u ideji o dobrobiti,
18:06
than we can respect or tolerate vast differences
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da poštujemo i tolerišemo ogromne razlike
18:09
in the notions about how disease spreads,
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u idejama o tome kako se bolesti šire,
18:12
or in the safety standards of buildings and airplanes.
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ili u bezbednosnim standardima zgrada i aviona.
18:15
We simply must converge
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Moramo da težimo
18:18
on the answers we give to the most important questions in human life.
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odgovorima koje dajemo na najvažnija pitanja u ljudskom životu.
18:22
And to do that, we have to admit that these questions have answers.
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A da bismo to učinili, moramo priznati da ova pitanja imaju odgovore.
18:27
Thank you very much.
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Hvala vam mnogo.
18:29
(Applause)
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(aplauz)
18:52
Chris Anderson: So, some combustible material there.
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Kris Anderson: Ovo je zapaljiv materijal.
18:56
Whether in this audience or people elsewhere in the world,
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Bilo da se radi o ovoj publici ili ljudima drugde u svetu,
18:59
hearing some of this, may well be doing the
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posle slušanja ovoga mogli bi
19:01
screaming-with-rage thing, after as well, some of them.
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da viču od besa, barem neki od njih.
19:06
Language seems to be really important here.
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Izgleda da je jezik ovde veoma bitan.
19:08
When you're talking about the veil,
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Kada govorite o velu,
19:10
you're talking about women dressed in cloth bags.
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govorite o ženama obučenim u krpene vreće,
19:13
I've lived in the Muslim world, spoken with a lot of Muslim women.
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ja sam živeo u muslimanskom svetu, pričao sa mnogo muslimanskih žena.
19:17
And some of them would say something else. They would say,
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Neke od njih bi rekle nešto drugo. Rekle bi,
19:19
"No, you know, this is a celebration
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"Ne, znate ovo je slava
19:22
of female specialness,
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ženske posebnosti,
19:25
it helps build that and it's a result of the fact that" --
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pomaže u izgradnji toga i rezultat je činjenice..."
19:27
and this is arguably a sophisticated psychological view --
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i to je dokazivo u sofisticiranom psihološkom gledištu,
19:31
"that male lust is not to be trusted."
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"da muškoj požudi ne treba verovati."
19:34
I mean, can you engage in a conversation
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Mislim, možete li ući u razgovor
19:37
with that kind of woman without seeming kind of cultural imperialist?
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sa takvom ženom, a da ne izgledate kao neki kulturni imperijalist.
19:42
Sam Harris: Yeah, well I think I tried to broach this in a sentence,
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Sem Haris: Da, pa mislim da sam pokušao da istaknem to u jednoj rečenici,
19:45
watching the clock ticking,
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dok sam gledao sat kako otkucava,
19:47
but the question is:
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ali pitanje je,
19:49
What is voluntary in a context
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šta je dobrovoljno u kontekstu
19:52
where men have certain expectations,
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gde muškarci imaju određena očekivanja,
19:54
and you're guaranteed to be treated in a certain way
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i garantovano vam je da će vas tretirati na određeni način,
19:58
if you don't veil yourself?
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ako ne obučete veo?
20:00
And so, if anyone in this room
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Dakle, ako neko iz ove prostorije
20:02
wanted to wear a veil,
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želi da nosi veo,
20:04
or a very funny hat, or tattoo their face --
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ili vrlo smešan šešir, ili da tetovira lice -
20:07
I think we should be free to voluntarily do whatever we want,
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mislim da bi trebalo da slobodno voljno radimo šta hoćemo,
20:10
but we have to be honest about
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ali moramo biti iskreni o
20:13
the constraints that these women are placed under.
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ograničenjima pod kojima su ove žene.
20:15
And so I think we shouldn't be so eager
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I zato mislim da ne bi trebalo
20:18
to always take their word for it,
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uvek da im verujemo na reč,
20:20
especially when it's 120 degrees out
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posebno ako ima 50 stepeni napolju
20:22
and you're wearing a full burqa.
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a one nose burku.
20:25
CA: A lot of people want to believe in this
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K.A.: Mnogo ljudi želi da veruje
20:27
concept of moral progress.
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u koncept moralnog napretka.
20:29
But can you reconcile that?
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Ali možete li to pomiriti?
20:31
I think I understood you to say that you could
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Mislim da sam razumeo da kažete da možete
20:33
reconcile that with a world that doesn't become
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pomiriti to sa svetom koji ne postaje
20:35
one dimensional, where we all have to think the same.
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jednodimenzionalan, gde svi treba da mislimo jednako.
20:38
Paint your picture of what
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Kako mislite da će svet izgledati,
20:40
rolling the clock 50 years forward,
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za 50 godina
20:43
100 years forward, how you would like to think of
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ili za 100 godina, kako biste voleli da izgleda,
20:45
the world, balancing moral progress
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balansirajući moralni napredak
20:48
with richness.
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sa bogatstvom.
20:51
SH: Well, I think once you admit
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S.H.: Pa, mislim da kada priznate
20:53
that we are on the path toward understanding our minds
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da se nalazimo na putu razumevanja naših umova
20:56
at the level of the brain in some important detail,
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i nivoa mozga u nekim bitnim stvarima,
20:59
then you have to admit
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morate priznati
21:01
that we are going to understand all of the positive
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da ćemo razumeti sve svoje pozitivne
21:05
and negative qualities
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i negativne kvalitete
21:07
of ourselves in much greater detail.
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mnogo detaljnije.
21:09
So, we're going to understand positive social emotion
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Znači, razumećemo pozitivnu društvenu emociju
21:11
like empathy and compassion,
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kao što je empatija ili saosećanje,
21:13
and we're going to understand the factors
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i razumećemo faktore
21:15
that encourage it -- whether they're genetic,
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koji ih podstiču - bilo da su genetski,
21:17
whether they're how people talk to one another,
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ili način na koji ljudi razgovaraju,
21:19
whether they're economic systems,
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ili su ekonomski sistemi.
21:21
and insofar as we begin to shine light on that
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Ukoliko počnemo to da osvetljavamo,
21:24
we are inevitably going to converge
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neizbežno ćemo težiti
21:26
on that fact space.
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tom činjeničnom prostoru.
21:28
So, everything is not going to be up for grabs.
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Znači, neće sve biti dato na tanjiru.
21:30
It's not going to be like
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Neće biti da je
21:33
veiling my daughter from birth
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oblačenje moje ćerke u veo od rođenja
21:35
is just as good as teaching her
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jednako dobro kao učiti je
21:38
to be confident and well-educated
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da bude pouzdana i dobro obrazovana
21:42
in the context of men who do desire women.
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u okruženju muškaraca koji žude za ženama.
21:45
I mean I don't think we need an NSF grant to know
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Mislim, ne treba nam nagrada naučne fondacije da znamo
21:49
that compulsory veiling is a bad idea --
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da je nametanje vela loša ideja -
21:52
but at a certain point
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ali u nekom momentu
21:54
we're going to be able to scan the brains of everyone involved
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ćemo moći da skeniramo mozgove svih uključenih
21:57
and actually interrogate them.
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i da ih stvarno ispitujemo.
22:00
Do people love their daughters
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Da li ljudi jednako vole svoje ćerke
22:03
just as much in these systems?
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u ovim sistemima?
22:06
And I think there are clearly right answers to that.
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Mislim da postoje vrlo jasni odgovori na to.
22:08
CA: And if the results come out that actually they do,
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K.A.: I ako dobijemo rezultate da je zaista tako,
22:11
are you prepared to shift your instinctive current judgment
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da li ste spremni da promenite svoj trenutni instinktivni sud
22:14
on some of these issues?
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na neku od ovih tema?
22:16
SH: Well yeah, modulo one obvious fact,
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S.H.: Pa da, osim jedne očigledne činjenice,
22:19
that you can love someone
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da možete voleti nekog
22:21
in the context of a truly delusional belief system.
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u kontekstu sistema uverenja koji je u zabludi.
22:24
So, you can say like, "Because I knew my gay son
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Možete reći, "Znao sam da će moj gej sin
22:26
was going to go to hell if he found a boyfriend,
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ići u pakao ako nađe momka,
22:29
I chopped his head off. And that was the most compassionate thing I could do."
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pa sam mu odsekao glavu. I to je najsaosećajnija stvar koju sam mogao učiniti."
22:32
If you get all those parts aligned,
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Ako poslažete sve te delove,
22:34
yes I think you could probably be feeling the emotion of love.
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pretpostavljam da možete osećati emociju ljubavi.
22:37
But again, then we have to talk about
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Ali opet, onda moramo da govorimo
22:39
well-being in a larger context.
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o dobrobiti u širem kontekstu.
22:41
It's all of us in this together,
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Svi smo zajedno u ovome,
22:43
not one man feeling ecstasy
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a ne da jedan čovek oseća ekstazu
22:47
and then blowing himself up on a bus.
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i onda se raznese u autobusu.
22:49
CA: Sam, this is a conversation I would actually love to
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K.A.: Ovaj razgovor bih stvarno voleo
22:51
continue for hours.
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da nastavim satima.
22:53
We don't have that, but maybe another time. Thank you for coming to TED.
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To nije moguće, ali možda neki drugi put. Hvala što ste došli na TED.
22:55
SH: Really an honor. Thank you.
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S.H.: Zaista mi je čast. Hvala.
22:57
(Applause)
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(aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sam Harris - Neuroscientist, philosopherSam Harris's work focuses on how our growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.
Why you should listen
Sam Harris is the author of five New York Times bestsellers. His books include The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, Waking Up and Islam and the Future of Tolerance (with Maajid Nawaz). The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction. Harris's writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics -- neuroscience, moral philosophy, religion, spirituality, violence, human reasoning -- but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.
Harris's work has been published in more than 20 languages and has been discussed in the New York Times, Time, Scientific American, Nature, Newsweek, Rolling Stone and many other journals. He has written for the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, The Economist, The Times (London), the Boston Globe, The Atlantic, The Annals of Neurology and elsewhere. Harris also regularly hosts a popular podcast.
Harris received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.
Sam Harris | Speaker | TED.com