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Vincent Cochetel: I was held hostage for 317 days. Here's what I thought about…
Vincent Cochetel: V ujetništvu sem bil 317 dni. Sledi tisto, o čemer sem razmišljal...
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Vincent Cochetel je bil leta 1998 317 dni talec, medtem, ko je delal za visoki komisariat Združenih narodov za begunce v Čečeniji.
Prvič se spominja svoje izkušnje-od tega, kakšno je bilo življenje v temni, podzemni sobi, priklenjen na svoji postelji, do nepričakovanih pogovorov, ki jih je imel s svojimi ugrabitelji.
Z liriko in energijo razloži, zakaj še dandanes nadaljuje svoje delo.
Od leta 2000 so se napadi na humanitarne delavce potrojili-sprašuje se, kako in kaj bi ta dvig lahko signaliziral svetu.
Vincent Cochetel - Humanitarian
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Full bio
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I cannot forget them.
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Ne morem jih pozabiti.
00:15
Their names were Aslan, Alik, Andrei,
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Ime jim je bilo Aslan, Alik, Andrei,
00:20
Fernanda, Fred, Galina, Gunnhild,
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Fernanda, Fred, Galina, Gunnhild,
00:25
Hans, Ingeborg, Matti, Natalya,
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Hans, Ingeborg, Matti, Natalya,
00:30
Nancy, Sheryl, Usman, Zarema,
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Nancy, Sheryl, Usman, Zarema,
00:35
and the list is longer.
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a seznam je mnogo daljši.
00:38
For many, their existence,
their humanity,
their humanity,
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Za mnoge je njihov obstoj,
njihova človečnost
njihova človečnost
00:41
has been reduced to statistics,
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postal samo statistika
00:45
coldly recorded as "security incidents."
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in se ga bomo hladnokrvno spominjali
kot "varnostni incident".
kot "varnostni incident".
00:49
For me, they were colleagues
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Zame so bili kolegi,
00:51
belonging to that community
of humanitarian aid workers
of humanitarian aid workers
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ki so pripadali skupnosti humanitarnih
delavcev,
delavcev,
00:54
that tried to bring a bit of comfort
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ki so poskušali vsaj malo
olajšati trpljenje
olajšati trpljenje
00:57
to the victims of the wars
in Chechnya in the '90s.
in Chechnya in the '90s.
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žrtvam vojn v Čečeniji v 90ih.
01:01
They were nurses, logisticians,
shelter experts,
shelter experts,
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Bili so medicinci, logisti, izvedenci za
zavetišča,
zavetišča,
01:06
paralegals, interpreters.
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pravniki, tolmači.
01:08
And for this service, they were murdered,
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In zaradi te službe so bili umorjeni,
01:13
their families torn apart,
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njihove družine uničene,
01:15
and their story largely forgotten.
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njihova zgodba pa v večini pozabljena.
01:18
No one was ever sentenced
for these crimes.
for these crimes.
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Obsojenih za te zločine ni bilo.
01:22
I cannot forget them.
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Ne morem jih pozabiti.
01:25
They live in me somehow,
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Nekako živijo v meni,
01:27
their memories giving me
meaning every day.
meaning every day.
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njihovi spomini pa vsakemu dnevu
dajo pomen.
dajo pomen.
01:30
But they are also haunting
the dark street of my mind.
the dark street of my mind.
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A me v mislih hkrati preganjajo.
01:34
As humanitarian aid workers,
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Kot humanitarni delavci
01:36
they made the choice
to be at the side of the victim,
to be at the side of the victim,
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so se odločili biti na strani žrtev,
01:40
to provide some assistance,
some comfort, some protection,
some comfort, some protection,
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da jim bodo nudili pomoč,
tolažbo, zaščito,
tolažbo, zaščito,
01:44
but when they needed
protection themselves,
protection themselves,
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a ko so jo potrebovali sami,
01:47
it wasn't there.
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le-te ni bilo.
01:49
When you see the headlines
of your newspaper these days
of your newspaper these days
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Dandanes videvamo naslovnice v
časopisih
časopisih
01:52
with the war in Iraq or in Syria --
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vojna v Iraku ali v Siriji --
01:55
aid worker abducted, hostage executed --
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humanitarni delavec ugrabljen,
talec umorjen --
talec umorjen --
02:00
but who were they?
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ampak, kdo so to bili?
02:02
Why were they there?
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Zakaj so bili tam?
02:04
What motivated them?
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Kaj jih je motiviralo?
02:06
How did we become
so indifferent to these crimes?
so indifferent to these crimes?
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Kako smo lahko postali tako brezbrižni
do takih zločinov?
do takih zločinov?
02:09
This is why I am here today with you.
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Zato sem danes z vami.
02:13
We need to find better ways
to remember them.
to remember them.
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Najti moramo boljši način, da
se jih spomnimo.
se jih spomnimo.
02:16
We also need to explain the key values
to which they dedicated their lives.
to which they dedicated their lives.
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Prav tako moramo pojasniti vrednote,
ki so jim posvetili svoje življenje.
ki so jim posvetili svoje življenje.
02:22
We also need to demand justice.
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In zahtevati moramo pravico.
02:28
When in '96 I was sent
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Ko me je leta '96
02:29
by the United Nations High Commissioner
for Refugees to the North Caucasus,
for Refugees to the North Caucasus,
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visoki komisariat Združenih narodov za
begunce poslal na Severni Kavkaz
begunce poslal na Severni Kavkaz
02:33
I knew some of the risks.
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sem se zavedal tveganj.
02:35
Five colleagues had been killed,
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Pet mrtvih kolegov,
02:37
three had been seriously injured,
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trije hudo poškodovani,
02:39
seven had already been taken hostage.
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sedem jih je bilo ugrabljenih.
02:42
So we were careful.
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Zato smo bili tudi mi previdni.
02:44
We were using armored
vehicles, decoy cars,
vehicles, decoy cars,
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Vozili smo se v oboroženih vozilih,
uporabljali avte za vabo,
uporabljali avte za vabo,
02:48
changing patterns of travel,
changing homes,
changing homes,
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spreminjali poti potovanj,
se selili,
se selili,
02:51
all sorts of security measures.
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nešteto varnostnih ukrepov.
02:55
Yet on a cold winter night
of January '98, it was my turn.
of January '98, it was my turn.
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A sem kljub vsemu, na mrzlo zimsko noč,
januarja '98, prišel na vrsto.
januarja '98, prišel na vrsto.
03:01
When I entered my flat
in Vladikavkaz with a guard,
in Vladikavkaz with a guard,
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Ko sem skupaj s stražarjem vstopil v svoje
stanovanje v Vladikavkazu,
stanovanje v Vladikavkazu,
03:05
we were surrounded by armed men.
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sva bila obkrožena z oboroženimi možmi.
03:08
They took the guard,
they put him on the floor,
they put him on the floor,
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Stražarja so zagrabili,
ga položili na tla,
ga položili na tla,
03:10
they beat him up in front of me,
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ga pretepli vpričo mene,
03:13
tied him, dragged him away.
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ga zavezali in odvlekli stran.
03:17
I was handcuffed, blindfolded,
and forced to kneel,
and forced to kneel,
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Mene so vklenili, mi zavezali oči
in me prisilili, da pokleknem,
in me prisilili, da pokleknem,
03:22
as the silencer of a gun
pressed against my neck.
pressed against my neck.
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medtem, ko so mi ob glavo tiščali
dušilec pištole.
dušilec pištole.
03:26
When it happens to you,
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Ko se ti to zgodi,
03:27
there is no time for thinking,
no time for praying.
no time for praying.
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ni časa za razmislek,
ni časa za molitev.
ni časa za molitev.
03:32
My brain went on automatic,
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Možgani so začeli delati samodejno,
03:34
rewinding quickly
the life I'd just left behind.
the life I'd just left behind.
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hitro predvajali življenje, ki sem
ga pustil za seboj.
ga pustil za seboj.
03:39
It took me long minutes to figure out
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Dolge minute so minile, preden
sem ugotovil,
sem ugotovil,
03:41
that those masked men there
were not there to kill me,
were not there to kill me,
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da ti zamaskirani možje niso tam,
da me ubijejo,
da me ubijejo,
03:45
but that someone, somewhere,
had ordered my kidnapping.
had ordered my kidnapping.
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a da je nekdo, nekje, naročil,
da me ugrabijo.
da me ugrabijo.
03:50
Then a process of dehumanization
started that day.
started that day.
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In začel se je proces dehumanizacije.
03:54
I was no more than just a commodity.
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Bil sem samo blago.
04:01
I normally don't talk about this,
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Načeloma o tem ne govorim,
04:03
but I'd like to share a bit with you
some of those 317 days of captivity.
some of those 317 days of captivity.
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a bi z vami rad delil del tistih
317 dni v ujetništvu.
317 dni v ujetništvu.
04:08
I was kept in an underground cellar,
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Zaprt sem bil v podzemni kleti,
04:11
total darkness,
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popolna tema,
04:13
for 23 hours and 45 minutes every day,
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23 ur in 45 minut vsak dan
04:17
and then the guards
would come, normally two.
would come, normally two.
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dokler nista prišla stražarja.
Ponavadi sta bila dva.
Ponavadi sta bila dva.
04:20
They would bring a big piece of bread,
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Prinesla sta velik kos kruha,
04:23
a bowl of soup, and a candle.
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skledo juhe in svečo.
04:27
That candle would burn for 15 minutes,
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Sveča je gorela 15 minut,
04:31
15 minutes of precious light,
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15 dragocenih minut svetlobe,
04:35
and then they would take it away,
and I returned to darkness.
and I returned to darkness.
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nato sta jo vzela in vrnil sem se v temo.
04:41
I was chained by a metal cable to my bed.
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Z verigo sem bil privezan k postelji,
04:44
I could do only four small steps.
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naredil sem lahko le štiri male korake.
04:48
I always dreamt of the fifth one.
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Vedno pa sem sanjal o petem.
04:52
And no TV, no radio,
no newspaper, no one to talk to.
no newspaper, no one to talk to.
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Nisem imel televizije, radia,
niti časopisa ali koga za pogovor.
niti časopisa ali koga za pogovor.
04:56
I had no towel, no soap, no toilet paper,
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Nisem imel niti brisače, mila, wc papirja,
05:01
just two metal buckets open,
one for water, for one waste.
one for water, for one waste.
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samo 2 odprti vedri, enega za vodo,
enega za odpadke.
enega za odpadke.
05:09
Can you imagine that mock execution
can be a pastime for guards
can be a pastime for guards
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Si lahko mislite, da je podoživljanje
usmrtitev kratkočasenje za stražarje,
usmrtitev kratkočasenje za stražarje,
05:14
when they are sadistic
or when they are just bored or drunk?
or when they are just bored or drunk?
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ko uživajo v prizadejanju bolečine ali
so preprosto zdolgočaseni ali pijani?
so preprosto zdolgočaseni ali pijani?
05:21
We are breaking my nerves very slowly.
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Počasi sem izgubljal živce.
05:25
Isolation and darkness
are particularly difficult to describe.
are particularly difficult to describe.
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Izoliranost in temo je težko opisati.
05:29
How do you describe nothing?
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Kako opišeš 'nič'?
05:31
There are no words for the depths
of loneliness I reached
of loneliness I reached
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Ni besed s katerimi bi opisal globino
samote, ki sem jo dosegel
samote, ki sem jo dosegel
05:34
in that very thin border
between sanity and madness.
between sanity and madness.
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v tisti tanki meji med
razumom in norostjo.
razumom in norostjo.
05:42
In the darkness, sometimes
I played imaginary games of checkers.
I played imaginary games of checkers.
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V temi sem včasih igral namišljeno
igro dame.
igro dame.
05:47
I would start with the black,
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Začel bi s črnim,
05:49
play with the white,
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nadaljeval z belim,
05:51
back to the black
trying to trick the other side.
trying to trick the other side.
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se vrnil k črnemu in poskušal
prelisičiti nasprotnika.
prelisičiti nasprotnika.
05:55
I don't play checkers anymore.
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Dame sedaj ne igram več.
05:58
I was tormented by the thoughts of my
family and my colleague, the guard, Edik.
family and my colleague, the guard, Edik.
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Preganjale so me misli o moji družini in
kolegu, mojemu stražarju Ediku.
kolegu, mojemu stražarju Ediku.
06:05
I didn't know what had happened to him.
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Nisem vedel kaj se je z njim zgodilo.
06:07
I was trying not to think,
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Medtem, ko sem poskušal ne razmišljati,
06:10
I tried to fill up my time
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sem skušal zapolniti svoj čas
06:11
by doing all sorts of physical
exercise on the spot.
exercise on the spot.
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z različnimi vadbami kar tam, na mestu.
06:15
I tried to pray, I tried all sorts
of memorization games.
of memorization games.
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Poskušal sem moliti, preizkusil sem tudi
igre za izboljšanje spomina.
igre za izboljšanje spomina.
06:21
But darkness also creates images
and thoughts that are not normal.
and thoughts that are not normal.
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A tema v tebi ustvari podobe in misli,
ki niso običajne.
ki niso običajne.
06:25
One part of your brain wants you
to resist, to shout, to cry,
to resist, to shout, to cry,
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Del tvojih možganov se želi upreti,
zakričati, jokati,
zakričati, jokati,
06:31
and the other part of the brain
orders you to shut up
orders you to shut up
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medtem ko ti drugi del ukazuje,
da utihneš
da utihneš
06:35
and just go through it.
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in narediš kot ti je rečeno.
06:37
It's a constant internal debate;
there is no one to arbitrate.
there is no one to arbitrate.
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Gre za neprekinjeno notranjo debato,
kjer ni nikogar, ki bi razsodil.
kjer ni nikogar, ki bi razsodil.
06:43
Once a guard came to me,
very aggressively, and he told me,
very aggressively, and he told me,
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Nekoč je stražar prišel do mene,
dokaj napadalno, in mi povedal:
dokaj napadalno, in mi povedal:
06:48
"Today you're going to kneel
and beg for your food."
and beg for your food."
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"Danes boš pokleknil in prosil
za svojo hrano."
za svojo hrano."
06:52
I wasn't in a good mood,
so I insulted him.
so I insulted him.
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Nisem bil prav dobre volje, zato sem
ga užalil.
ga užalil.
06:55
I insulted his mother,
I insulted his ancestors.
I insulted his ancestors.
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Užalil sem njegovo mati, njegove prednike.
06:58
The consequence was moderate:
he threw the food into my waste.
he threw the food into my waste.
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Posledice so bile mile: vrgel je hrano
med moje odpadke.
med moje odpadke.
07:03
The day after he came back
with the same demand.
with the same demand.
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Naslednji dan se je vrnil in
zahteval isto.
zahteval isto.
07:06
He got the same answer,
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Dobil je isti odgovor,
07:09
which had the same consequence.
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ki pa je imel iste posledice.
07:13
Four days later,
the body was full of pain.
the body was full of pain.
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Štiri dni kasneje je bilo moje telo
v bolečinah.
v bolečinah.
07:17
I didn't know hunger hurt so much
when you have so little.
when you have so little.
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Nisem vedel, da lakota boli tako močno,
ko imaš tako malo.
ko imaš tako malo.
07:21
So when the guards came down,
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Ko so se torej stražarji vrnili,
07:28
I knelt.
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sem pokleknil.
07:31
I begged for my food.
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Moledoval sem za svojo hrano.
07:34
Submission was the only way for me
to make it to another candle.
to make it to another candle.
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Podreditev je bila zame edini način,
da se prebijem do naslednje sveče.
da se prebijem do naslednje sveče.
07:41
After my kidnapping,
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Po tem, ko so me ugrabili,
07:43
I was transferred
from North Ossetia to Chechnya,
from North Ossetia to Chechnya,
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so me iz Severne Osetije
premestili v Čečenijo,
premestili v Čečenijo,
07:46
three days of slow travel
in the trunks of different cars,
in the trunks of different cars,
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tri dni sem potoval v počasnih
avtomobilih in različnih prtljažnikih
avtomobilih in različnih prtljažnikih
07:50
and upon arrival, I was interrogated
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in ko smo prispeli na cilj me je
07:52
for 11 days by a guy called Ruslan.
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11 dni zasliševal moški po imenu Ruslan.
07:56
The routine was always the same:
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Rutina je bila vedno ista:
07:58
a bit more light, 45 minutes.
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malo več svetlobe, 45 minut.
08:00
He would come down to the cellar,
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Prišel je v klet,
08:02
he would ask the guards
to tie me on the chair,
to tie me on the chair,
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stražarjem rekel naj me privežejo na stol,
08:05
and he would turn on the music loud.
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ter pojačal zvok glasbe.
08:08
And then he would yell questions.
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Potem je vpil vprašanja.
08:11
He would scream. He would beat me.
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Kričal je. Me pretepal.
08:14
I'll spare you the details.
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Prihranil vam bom podrobnosti.
08:16
There are many questions
I could not understand,
I could not understand,
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Ogromno vprašanj
nisem niti razumel
nisem niti razumel
08:18
and there are some questions
I did not want to understand.
I did not want to understand.
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in nekaj jih je bilo takih,
ki jih niti nisem hotel.
ki jih niti nisem hotel.
08:24
The length of the interrogation
was the duration of the tape:
was the duration of the tape:
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Dolžina zaslišanja je bila dolžina
posnetkov:
posnetkov:
08:28
15 songs, 45 minutes.
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15 pesmi, 45 minut.
08:31
I would always long for the last song.
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Vedno sem hrepenel po zadnji.
08:34
On one day, one night in that cellar,
I don't know what it was,
I don't know what it was,
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Eno noč v tisti kleti, ne vem točno
kaj se je dogajalo,
kaj se je dogajalo,
08:38
I heard a child crying above my head,
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3017
sem nad seboj slišal otroški jok,
08:41
a boy, maybe two or three years old.
140
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fantek, 2, mogoče 3 leta star.
08:44
Footsteps, confusion, people running.
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Koraki, zmeda, tekajoči ljudje.
08:48
So when Ruslan came the day after,
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In ko je Ruslan prišel naslednji dan,
08:51
before he put the first question to me,
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2469
preden mi je postavil prvo vprašanje,
08:54
I asked him, "How is your son today?
Is he feeling better?"
Is he feeling better?"
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sem ga vprašal: "Kako je kaj tvoj sin?
Se počuti bolje?"
Se počuti bolje?"
08:57
Ruslan was taken by surprise.
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Ruslana sem s tem presenetil.
09:00
He was furious that the guards
may have leaked some details
may have leaked some details
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2829
Besen je mislil, da so
stražarji izdali podrobnosti
stražarji izdali podrobnosti
09:03
about his private life.
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njegovega privatnega življenja.
09:06
I kept talking about NGOs
supplying medicines to local clinics
supplying medicines to local clinics
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4713
Razlagal sem mu o NVO-jih, ki so
dobavljali zdravila lokalnim klinikam,
dobavljali zdravila lokalnim klinikam,
09:10
that may help his son to get better.
149
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ki bi lahko pomagala njegovemu sinu.
09:13
And we talked about education,
we talked about families.
we talked about families.
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In pogovarjala sva se o izobrazbi,
o družinah.
o družinah.
09:17
He talked to me about his children.
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Povedal mi je o svojih otrocih.
09:19
I talked to him about my daughters.
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Povedal sem mu o mojih hčerah.
09:21
And then he'd talk about guns,
about cars, about women,
about cars, about women,
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In nato je govoril o orožju,
avtomobilih, o ženskah,
avtomobilih, o ženskah,
09:25
and I had to talk about guns,
about cars, about women.
about cars, about women.
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in tudi jaz sem moral govoriti o orožju,
avtomobilih, o ženskah.
avtomobilih, o ženskah.
09:29
And we talked until
the last song on the tape.
the last song on the tape.
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In pogovarjala sva se
do konca zadnjega posnetka.
do konca zadnjega posnetka.
09:33
Ruslan was the most brutal man I ever met.
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Ruslan je bil najbolj brutalen moški,
ki sem ga kdajkoli spoznal.
ki sem ga kdajkoli spoznal.
09:38
He did not touch me anymore.
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Nikoli več se me ni dotaknil.
09:42
He did not ask any other questions.
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Ni mi več postavljal vprašanj.
09:44
I was no longer just a commodity.
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Nisem bil več le blago.
09:48
Two days after, I was transferred
to another place.
to another place.
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4969
Dva dni kasneje sem bil
ponovno premeščen.
ponovno premeščen.
09:53
There, a guard came to me,
very close -- it was quite unusual --
very close -- it was quite unusual --
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5106
Na lokaciji je do mene pristopil stražar,
kar je bilo dokaj neobičajno,
kar je bilo dokaj neobičajno,
09:58
and he said with
a very soft voice, he said,
a very soft voice, he said,
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3159
in mi rekel, z zelo tihim glasom:
10:02
"I'd like to thank you
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590025
2624
"Rad bi se ti zahvalil
10:04
for the assistance your organization
provided my family
provided my family
164
592649
4040
za pomoč, ki jo je tvoja organizacija
nudila moji družini,
nudila moji družini,
10:08
when we were displaced
in nearby Dagestan."
in nearby Dagestan."
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4049
ko smo bili priseljeni v bližnji
Dagestan.
Dagestan.
10:14
What could I possibly reply?
166
602308
3583
Kako bi sploh lahko odgovoril?
10:17
It was so painful.
It was like a blade in the belly.
It was like a blade in the belly.
167
605891
4776
Bilo je tako boleče.
Bilo je kot rezilo v trebuh.
Bilo je kot rezilo v trebuh.
10:22
It took me weeks of internal thinking
to try to reconcile
to try to reconcile
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3344
Vzelo mi je več tednov samorazmišljanja,
da sem ugotovil
da sem ugotovil
10:26
the good reasons we had
to assist that family
to assist that family
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614011
3274
tiste dobre razloge, ki smo jih
imeli, da smo pomagali tisti družini
imeli, da smo pomagali tisti družini
10:29
and the soldier of fortune he became.
170
617285
2972
in vojaku usode, ki je postal.
10:32
He was young, he was shy.
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2113
Bil je mlad, sramežljiv.
10:34
I never saw his face.
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Nikoli nisem videl njegovega obraza.
10:36
He probably meant well.
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Gotovo je mislil samo dobro.
10:39
But in those 15 seconds,
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2392
A v tistih 15ih sekundah
10:41
he made me question everything we did,
175
629707
3715
je v meni vzbudil dvom za vsako stvar,
ki smo jo storili,
ki smo jo storili,
10:45
all the sacrifices.
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2391
za vse žrtve.
10:47
He made me think also how they see us.
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635813
3553
Zaradi njega sem se vprašal tudi,
kako oni vidijo nas.
kako oni vidijo nas.
10:51
Until then, I had assumed
that they know why we are there
that they know why we are there
178
639366
2670
Do takrat sem predvideval,
da vedo zakaj smo tam
da vedo zakaj smo tam
10:54
and what we are doing.
179
642036
2879
in kaj počnemo.
10:56
One cannot assume this.
180
644915
2853
Nihče tega ne sme predvidevati.
10:59
Well, explaining why we do this
is not that easy,
is not that easy,
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647768
4252
Sicer tudi razložiti tega ni preprosto,
11:04
even to our closest relatives.
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652020
1792
tudi našim najbližjim ne.
11:07
We are not perfect, we are not superior,
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655062
3397
Nismo popolni, nismo nad drugimi,
11:10
we are not the world's fire brigade,
184
658459
2476
nismo najboljši gasilci na svetu,
11:12
we are not superheroes,
185
660935
2114
niti superjunaki,
11:15
we don't stop wars,
186
663049
1672
ne zaustavljamo vojn
11:16
we know that humanitarian response is not
a substitute for political solution.
a substitute for political solution.
187
664721
5384
in vemo, da humanitarnost ni nadomestilo
za politično rešitev.
za politično rešitev.
11:22
Yet we do this because one life matters.
188
670105
4458
A to počnemo, ker je tudi
samo eno življenje pomembno.
samo eno življenje pomembno.
11:26
Sometimes that's the only
difference you make --
difference you make --
189
674563
2253
Včasih je to tudi vse, kar lahko storiš --
11:28
one individual, one family,
a small group of individuals --
a small group of individuals --
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676816
3320
ena oseba, ena družina, manjša
skupina ljudi --
skupina ljudi --
11:32
and it matters.
191
680136
1974
in tudi to šteje.
11:34
When you have a tsunami,
an earthquake or a typhoon,
an earthquake or a typhoon,
192
682110
2857
Ko udarijo cunami, potres
ali orkan,
ali orkan,
11:36
you see teams of rescuers
coming from all over the world,
coming from all over the world,
193
684967
4108
opazujemo skupine reševalcev,
ki prihajajo z vsega sveta
ki prihajajo z vsega sveta
11:41
searching for survivors for weeks.
194
689075
3042
in preživele iščejo
tudi po več tednov.
tudi po več tednov.
11:44
Why? Nobody questions this.
195
692117
2554
Zakaj? Takrat se tega nihče ne vpraša.
11:46
Every life matters,
196
694671
2113
Vsako življenje je pomembno
11:48
or every life should matter.
197
696784
4226
oziroma bi moralo biti.
11:53
This is the same for us
when we help refugees,
when we help refugees,
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701010
2925
Enako velja za nas, ko pomagamo beguncem,
11:55
people displaced within their country
by conflict, or stateless persons,
by conflict, or stateless persons,
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703935
4860
ljudje preseljeni zaradi spopadov,
ali tisti brez države
ali tisti brez države
12:01
I know many people,
200
709595
1795
poznam ogromno ljudi,
12:03
when they are confronted
by overwhelming suffering,
by overwhelming suffering,
201
711390
3008
ko se soočajo s hudim trpljenjem
12:06
they feel powerless and they stop there.
202
714398
3771
se počutijo nemočne
in ne storijo ničesar.
in ne storijo ničesar.
12:10
It's a pity, because there are
so many ways people can help.
so many ways people can help.
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718169
3877
Škoda je, sploh ker obstaja toliko
možnosti, s katerimi bi lahko pomagali.
možnosti, s katerimi bi lahko pomagali.
12:14
We don't stop with that feeling.
204
722046
1981
Mi se ne ustavimo, če to občutimo.
12:16
We try to do whatever we can
to provide some assistance,
to provide some assistance,
205
724027
2651
Ponudimo vse kar lahko, pomoč,
12:18
some protection, some comfort.
206
726678
2654
zaščito, tolažbo.
12:21
We have to.
207
729332
1761
Moramo.
12:23
We can't do otherwise.
208
731093
1750
Ne znamo drugače.
12:24
It's what makes us feel,
I don't know, simply human.
I don't know, simply human.
209
732843
5354
Zaradi tega se počutimo,
ne vem, kot ljudje.
ne vem, kot ljudje.
12:30
That's a picture of me
the day of my release.
the day of my release.
210
738197
4119
To je moja slika na dan,
ko so me izpustili.
ko so me izpustili.
12:34
Months after my release,
I met the then-French prime minister.
I met the then-French prime minister.
211
742316
4342
Mesece po mojem izpustu sem spoznal
Francoskega premierja.
Francoskega premierja.
12:38
The second thing he told me:
212
746658
2042
Druga stvar, ki mi jo je rekel je bila:
12:40
"You were totally irresponsible
to go to the North Caucasus.
to go to the North Caucasus.
213
748700
3531
"Neodgovorno in nepremišljeno
si šel na Severni kavkaz.
si šel na Severni kavkaz.
12:44
You don't know how many
problems you've created for us."
problems you've created for us."
214
752231
3906
Sploh ne veš, koliko problemov si nam
povzročil."
povzročil."
12:50
It was a short meeting.
215
758017
1835
Bilo je kratko srečanje.
12:51
(Laughter)
216
759852
1719
(smeh)
12:54
I think helping people
in danger is responsible.
in danger is responsible.
217
762661
4574
Pomagati ogroženim je odgovorno.
12:59
In that war, that nobody
seriously wanted to stop,
seriously wanted to stop,
218
767235
4528
V taki vojni, ki je v resnici nihče
noče zares ustaviti,
noče zares ustaviti,
13:03
and we have many of these today,
219
771763
2345
pa imamo takih dandanes ogromno,
13:06
bringing some assistance to people in need
and a bit of protection
and a bit of protection
220
774108
4500
je nuditi pomoč in zaščito
ogroženim ljudem
ogroženim ljudem
13:10
was not just an act of humanity,
221
778608
1909
ne samo odraz človeštva,
13:12
it was making a real difference
for the people.
for the people.
222
780517
2902
je tudi ustvarjanje sprememb za ljudi.
13:15
Why could he not understand this?
223
783419
3251
Zakaj tega ni mogel razumeti?
13:18
We have a responsibility to try.
224
786670
1927
Nosimo odgovornost, da vsaj poskusimo.
13:20
You've heard about that concept:
Responsibility to Protect.
Responsibility to Protect.
225
788597
3834
Saj veste: odgovornost, da zaščitimo.
13:24
Outcomes may depend
on various parameters.
on various parameters.
226
792431
4081
Rezultati so odvisni
od različnih dejavnikov.
od različnih dejavnikov.
13:28
We may even fail,
but there is worse than failing --
but there is worse than failing --
227
796512
3857
Lahko nam tudi spodleti, a obstaja
še kaj hujšega kot to --
še kaj hujšega kot to --
13:32
it's not even trying when we can.
228
800369
2751
to, da niti ne poskusimo, ko bi lahko.
13:36
Well, if you are met this way,
if you sign up for this sort of job,
if you sign up for this sort of job,
229
804441
3875
Res je, če se s tem srečaš,
če se prijaviš za tako službo,
če se prijaviš za tako službo,
13:40
your life is going to be full
of joy and sadness,
of joy and sadness,
230
808316
4638
bo tvoje življenje polno
veselja in žalosti,
veselja in žalosti,
13:44
because there are a lot of people
we cannot help,
we cannot help,
231
812954
2679
ker je ogromno ljudi,
ki jim ne moremo pomagati,
ki jim ne moremo pomagati,
13:47
a lot of people we cannot protect,
a lot of people we did not save.
a lot of people we did not save.
232
815633
3924
ogromno, ki jih ne moremo zaščititi
in jih nismo rešili.
in jih nismo rešili.
13:51
I call them my ghost,
233
819557
2243
Rečem jim kar 'moji duhovi';
13:53
and by having witnessed
their suffering from close,
their suffering from close,
234
821800
2957
in ko si priča njihovemu trpljenju,
13:56
you take a bit
of that suffering on yourself.
of that suffering on yourself.
235
824757
4147
del tega trpljenja prevzameš nase.
14:01
Many young humanitarian workers
236
829304
2666
Mnogo mladih humanitarnih delavcev
14:03
go through their first experience
with a lot of bitterness.
with a lot of bitterness.
237
831970
3018
svojo prvo izkušnjo doživi
z občutkom grenkobe.
z občutkom grenkobe.
14:06
They are thrown into situations
where they are witness,
where they are witness,
238
834988
2972
Vrženi so v situacije,
kjer so samo priče,
kjer so samo priče,
14:09
but they are powerless
to bring any change.
to bring any change.
239
837960
3112
a so nemočni, da bi karkoli spremenili.
14:13
They have to learn to accept it
240
841072
2507
Morajo se naučiti to sprejeti
14:15
and gradually turn this
into positive energy.
into positive energy.
241
843579
3379
in to postopoma spremeniti v
pozitivno energijo.
pozitivno energijo.
14:18
It's difficult.
242
846958
1449
Težko je.
14:20
Many don't succeed,
243
848407
2538
Mnogim ne uspe,
14:22
but for those who do,
there is no other job like this.
there is no other job like this.
244
850945
4008
a za tiste, ki jim, ni boljše
službe kot je ta.
službe kot je ta.
14:26
You can see the difference
you make every day.
you make every day.
245
854953
3780
Dejansko vidiš spremembo,
ki jo narediš vsak dan.
ki jo narediš vsak dan.
14:31
Humanitarian aid workers
know the risk they are taking
know the risk they are taking
246
859643
3162
Humanitarni delavci se zavedajo tveganj
14:34
in conflict areas or
in post-conflict environments,
in post-conflict environments,
247
862805
4912
v vojnih območjih ali povojnem okolju,
14:39
yet our life, our job, is becoming
increasingly life-threatening,
increasingly life-threatening,
248
867717
6712
a naša življenja, naše službe,
so vedno bolj ogrožene
so vedno bolj ogrožene
14:46
and the sanctity of our life is fading.
249
874429
3182
in svetost naših življenj izginja.
14:51
Do you know that since the millennium,
250
879441
2659
Ali veste, da se je po prelomu
tisočletja
tisočletja
14:54
the number of attacks on humanitarian
aid workers has tripled?
aid workers has tripled?
251
882100
4319
število napadov na nas potrojilo?
14:59
2013 broke new records:
252
887409
2632
2013 je podrlo rekord:
15:03
155 colleagues killed,
253
891111
3272
155 kolegov ubitih,
15:06
171 seriously wounded,
254
894383
3134
171 huje poškodovanih,
15:09
134 abducted.
255
897517
3458
134 ugrabljenih.
15:13
So many broken lives.
256
901375
3803
Toliko uničenih življenj.
15:17
Until the beginning of the civil war
in Somalia in the late '80s,
in Somalia in the late '80s,
257
905178
5202
Do začetka državljanske vojne
v Somaliji konec 80ih let
v Somaliji konec 80ih let
15:22
humanitarian aid workers
were sometimes victims
were sometimes victims
258
910380
4110
so bili humanitarni delavci včasih žrtve
15:26
of what we call collateral damages,
259
914490
1997
nečesa, čemur pravimo nenamerna škoda,
15:28
but by and large we were not
the target of these attacks.
the target of these attacks.
260
916487
3715
a nikoli nismo bili tarče napadov.
15:32
This has changed.
261
920202
1554
To se je sedaj spremenilo.
15:33
Look at this picture.
262
921756
1276
Poglejte si to sliko.
15:35
Baghdad, August 2003:
263
923032
2834
Bagdad, avgusta 2003:
15:37
24 colleagues were killed.
264
925866
2765
24 kolegov je bil ubitih.
15:40
Gone are the days when
a U.N. blue flag or a Red Cross
a U.N. blue flag or a Red Cross
265
928631
3526
Minili so časi, ko sta nas
modra zastava ZN in zastava Rdečega Križa
modra zastava ZN in zastava Rdečega Križa
15:44
would automatically protect us.
266
932157
3776
avtomatsko ščitili.
15:47
Criminal groups and some political groups
267
935933
3262
Kriminalne in politične skupine
15:51
have cross-fertilized
over the last 20 years,
over the last 20 years,
268
939195
2856
so se med seboj združile
v zadnjih 20ih letih
v zadnjih 20ih letih
15:54
and they've created these sort of hybrids
269
942051
3135
in ustvarile neke vrste hibridov,
15:57
with whom we have no way of communicating.
270
945186
2866
s katerimi nimamo možnosti komunicirati.
16:00
Humanitarian principles are tested,
questioned, and often ignored,
questioned, and often ignored,
271
948052
5374
Humanitarna načela so na preizkušnji,
pod vprašajem in pogosto ignorirana,
pod vprašajem in pogosto ignorirana,
16:05
but perhaps more importantly,
we have abandoned the search for justice.
we have abandoned the search for justice.
272
953426
4886
bolj pomembno kot to pa je,
da smo opustili iskanje pravice.
da smo opustili iskanje pravice.
16:10
There seems to be
no consequence whatsoever
no consequence whatsoever
273
958312
3220
Izgleda, kot da ni nobenih posledic,
kakršnihkoli,
kakršnihkoli,
16:13
for attacks against
humanitarian aid workers.
humanitarian aid workers.
274
961532
3465
za napade na humanitarne delavce.
16:16
After my release, I was told
not to seek any form of justice.
not to seek any form of justice.
275
964997
4360
Po mojem izpustu so mi svetovali
naj ne iščem pravice.
naj ne iščem pravice.
16:21
It won't do you any good,
that's what I was told.
that's what I was told.
276
969357
3227
"Nič ti ne bo koristilo," so mi rekli.
16:24
Plus, you're going to put in danger
the life of other colleagues.
the life of other colleagues.
277
972584
4089
"Istočasno pa boš ogrozil še življenja
ostalih kolegov."
ostalih kolegov."
16:29
It took me years to see the sentencing
278
977723
3161
Precej let je minilo, preden sem doživel
obtožbo
obtožbo
16:32
of three people associated
with my kidnapping,
with my kidnapping,
279
980884
4291
treh ljudi, ki so bili povezani
z mojo ugrabitvijo,
z mojo ugrabitvijo,
16:37
but this was the exception.
280
985175
2536
pa še to je bila izjema.
16:39
There was no justice for any
of the humanitarian aid workers
of the humanitarian aid workers
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Za humanitarne delavce,
16:44
killed or abducted in Chechnya
between '95 and '99,
between '95 and '99,
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4288
ki so bili ubiti ali ugrabljeni v Čečeniji
med letoma '95 in '99 ni bilo pravice,
med letoma '95 in '99 ni bilo pravice,
16:48
and it's the same all over the world.
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a je tako povsod po svetu.
16:52
This is unacceptable.
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To je nesprejemljivo.
16:54
This is inexcusable.
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Neopravičljivo.
16:56
Attacks on humanitarian aid workers
are war crimes in international law.
are war crimes in international law.
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Napadi na humanitarne delavce so
so vojni zločini po mednarodnem pravu.
so vojni zločini po mednarodnem pravu.
17:01
Those crimes should not go unpunished.
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Ti zločini ne bi smeli ostati nekaznovani.
17:04
We must end this cycle of impunity.
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Zaključiti moramo ta krog nekaznovanja.
17:06
We must consider that those attacks
against humanitarian aid workers
against humanitarian aid workers
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Zavedati se moramo, da so napadi na
humanitarne delavce
humanitarne delavce
17:10
are attacks against humanity itself.
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3553
napadi na celotno človeštvo.
17:14
That makes me furious.
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3625
To me resnično razburi.
17:18
I know I'm very lucky
compared to the refugees I work for.
compared to the refugees I work for.
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1026274
4714
Vem, da imam večjo srečo v primerjavi
z begunci za katere delam.
z begunci za katere delam.
17:24
I don't know what it is to have seen
my whole town destroyed.
my whole town destroyed.
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1032414
3627
Ne vem, kako je videti, kako ti
uničijo celotno mesto.
uničijo celotno mesto.
17:28
I don't know what it is to have seen
my relatives shot in front of me.
my relatives shot in front of me.
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1036041
4064
Niti ne vem, kako je, ko si priča uboju
svojih sorodnikov.
svojih sorodnikov.
17:32
I don't know what it is to lose
the protection of my country.
the protection of my country.
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4249
Ali kako je, ko izgubiš zaščito
svoje države.
svoje države.
17:36
I also know that I'm very lucky
compared to other hostages.
compared to other hostages.
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4295
Prav tako se zavedam, da imam srečo,
v primerjavi z ostalimi talci.
v primerjavi z ostalimi talci.
17:40
Four days before my eventful release,
four hostages were beheaded
four hostages were beheaded
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1048649
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4 dni preden so me izpustili,
so 4 talce obglavili
so 4 talce obglavili
17:46
a few miles away from where
I was kept in captivity.
I was kept in captivity.
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4395
nekaj kilometrov stran od tam,
kjer sem bil ujet.
kjer sem bil ujet.
17:50
Why them?
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2204
Zakaj oni?
17:52
Why am I here today?
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Zakaj sem jaz danes tu?
17:56
No easy answer.
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3789
Ni preprostega odgovora.
18:00
I was received with a lot of support
that I got from my relatives,
that I got from my relatives,
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1068430
3613
Doma so me sprejeli z ogromno razumevanja
in podpore, tako sorodniki
in podpore, tako sorodniki
18:04
from colleagues, from friends,
from people I didn't know.
from people I didn't know.
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3819
kot kolegi, prijatelji, ljudje,
ki jih nisem poznal.
ki jih nisem poznal.
18:07
They have helped me over the years
to come out of the darkness.
to come out of the darkness.
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1075862
3519
Vsa ta leta so mi pomagali,
da sem prišel iz teme.
da sem prišel iz teme.
18:12
Not everyone was treated
with the same attention.
with the same attention.
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A vseh niso sprejeli tako.
18:16
How many of my colleagues,
after a traumatic incident,
after a traumatic incident,
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3625
Koliko mojih kolegov si je,
po tako travmatičnem dogodku,
po tako travmatičnem dogodku,
18:19
took their own life?
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3276
vzelo življenje?
18:23
I can count nine that I knew personally.
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3729
9 sem jih poznal osebno.
18:26
How many of my colleagues
went through a difficult divorce
went through a difficult divorce
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3728
Koliko mojih kolegov se je soočilo
s težko ločitvijo
s težko ločitvijo
18:30
after a traumatic experience
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1098547
2934
po tej travmatični izkušnji,
18:33
because they could not explain
anything anymore to their spouse?
anything anymore to their spouse?
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1101481
4728
ker možu ali ženi niso
mogli ničesar več razložiti?
mogli ničesar več razložiti?
18:38
I've lost that count.
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2454
Prenehal sem šteti.
18:40
There is a price for this type of life.
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3560
Tak način življenja terja svojo ceno.
18:44
In Russia, all war monuments have
this beautiful inscription at the top.
this beautiful inscription at the top.
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4633
V Rusiji imajo vsi vojni spomeniki na sebi
zelo lep napis.
zelo lep napis.
18:48
It says, (In Russian)
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4109
Na njih piše (v ruščini)
18:52
"No one is forgotten,
nothing is forgotten."
nothing is forgotten."
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3251
"Nihče ni pozabljen, nič ni pozabljeno."
18:57
I do not forget my lost colleagues.
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3137
Tudi jaz ne pozabim svojih kolegov.
19:00
I cannot forget anything.
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2336
Ne morem pozabiti ničesar.
19:02
I call on you to remember their dedication
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1130859
3213
Pozivam vas, da se spomnite
njihove predanosti
njihove predanosti
19:06
and demand that humanitarian
aid workers around the world
aid workers around the world
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3506
in zahtevate, da bodo humanitarni delavci
po svetu
po svetu
19:09
be better protected.
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1137578
2577
bolj zaščiteni.
19:12
We should not let that light of hope
they have brought to be switched off.
they have brought to be switched off.
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5596
Ne bi smeli dovoliti, da ugasne lučka
upanja, ki so jo prižgali.
upanja, ki so jo prižgali.
19:17
After my ordeal, a lot of colleagues
asked me, "But why do you continue?
asked me, "But why do you continue?
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1145751
4690
Po moji preizkušnji me je mnogo kolegov
vprašalo: "A zakaj nadaljuješ?
vprašalo: "A zakaj nadaljuješ?
19:22
Why do you do this sort of job?
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1150441
2206
Zakaj opravljaš to službo?
19:24
Why do you have to go back to it?"
325
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2554
Zakaj se moraš vrniti nazaj k temu?"
19:27
My answer was very simple:
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2495
Moj odgovor je bil preprost:
19:30
If I had quit,
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2470
Če bi odnehal
19:32
that would have meant
my kidnapper had won.
my kidnapper had won.
328
1160536
4017
bi pomenilo, da je moj ugrabitelj zmagal.
19:36
They would have taken my soul
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2351
Vzeli bi mi dušo
19:38
and my humanity.
330
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2275
in človeštvo.
19:41
Thank you.
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2647
Hvala vam.
19:43
(Applause)
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2167
(aplavz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Vincent Cochetel - HumanitarianVincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).
Why you should listen
Vincent Cochetel is the Director of the Bureau for Europe at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). There he focuses on the specific challenges of the region — maintaining quality in asylum-seeking procedures, ensuring access to protection for those fleeing the conflict in Syria, combatting a rise in xenophobia, and allocating resources for those affected by conflicts of the past.
In 1998, Cochetel was kidnapped near Chechnya. For 317 days, he was chained to a bed frame in a cellar and deprived of light. But far from withdrawing from humanitarian work, the experience made him more determined than ever to improve the rights of refugees worldwide. He has written articles on numerous refugee issues and contributed to the drafting of several UNHCR training manuals related to staff safety, emergency management, and protection.
Vincent Cochetel | Speaker | TED.com