TEDGlobal 2011
Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar
Pamela Mejer (Pamela Meyer): Kako uočiti lažova
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Svakodnevno nas slažu između 10 i 200 puta, a upozoravajući indikatori laganja mogu biti veoma suptilni i kontraintuitivni. Pamela Mejer (Pamela Meyer) nam objašnjava način ponašanja i ključne momente koje ljudi profesionalno trenirani da uoče laž koriste kako bi prepoznali laž i zalaže se za ideju da je važno očuvati iskrenost.
Pamela Meyer - Lie detector
Pamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth. Full bio
Pamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Okay, now I don't want to alarm anybody in this room,
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Ne želim da alarmiram nikoga od prisutnih,
00:20
but it's just come to my attention
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ali sam upravo uočila
00:22
that the person to your right is a liar.
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da je osoba sa Vaše desne strane lažov.
00:24
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
00:26
Also, the person to your left is a liar.
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I osoba sa Vaše leve strane je takođe lažov.
00:29
Also the person sitting in your very seats is a liar.
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A i osoba koja sedi na Vašoj stolici je lažov.
00:32
We're all liars.
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Mi smo svi lažovi.
00:34
What I'm going to do today
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Ono što ću pokušati da objasnim danas
00:36
is I'm going to show you what the research says about why we're all liars,
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jeste studija koja obrazlaže zašto smo svi lažovi,
00:39
how you can become a liespotter
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kako možete da uočite laž
00:41
and why you might want to go the extra mile
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i zašto biste možda želeli dodatno da se potrudite
00:44
and go from liespotting to truth seeking,
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kako biste od uočavanja laži došli do traženja istine,
00:47
and ultimately to trust building.
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i na kraju do razvijanja poverenja.
00:49
Now speaking of trust,
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Kada pričamo o poverenju,
00:52
ever since I wrote this book, "Liespotting,"
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od kako sam napisala knjigu "Liespotting",
00:55
no one wants to meet me in person anymore, no, no, no, no, no.
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niko više ne želi lično da se vidi sa mnom, ne, ne, ne, ne.
00:58
They say, "It's okay, we'll email you."
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Kažu: "U redu je, poslaću ti elekronsko pismo."
01:01
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:03
I can't even get a coffee date at Starbucks.
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Čak ne mogu ni na kafu u "Starbucks" da odem.
01:07
My husband's like, "Honey, deception?
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Moj suprug kaže: "Dušo, prevara?
01:09
Maybe you could have focused on cooking. How about French cooking?"
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Možda si mogla da se fokusiraš na kuvanje. Šta misliš o francuskoj kuhinji?"
01:12
So before I get started, what I'm going to do
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Pre nego što počnem, prvo ću vam
01:14
is I'm going to clarify my goal for you,
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objasniti svoj cilj,
01:17
which is not to teach a game of Gotcha.
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a to nije da vas naučim igri "Uhvatio sam te".
01:19
Liespotters aren't those nitpicky kids,
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Mala zanovetala iz poslednjih redova koja
01:21
those kids in the back of the room that are shouting, "Gotcha! Gotcha!
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dovikuju "Uhvatio sam te, uhvatio sam te! Pomerila ti se obrva
01:24
Your eyebrow twitched. You flared your nostril.
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Proširila ti se nozdrva. Pratim emisiju "Laži me."
01:27
I watch that TV show 'Lie To Me.' I know you're lying."
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Znam da lažeš!" - nisu suština uočavanja laži.
01:30
No, liespotters are armed
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Nikako, ljudi koji su trenirani da uoče laž
01:32
with scientific knowledge of how to spot deception.
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su naučno obrazovani.
01:35
They use it to get to the truth,
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Oni koriste to umeće kako bi došli do istine,
01:37
and they do what mature leaders do everyday;
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i rade ono što stasale vođe čine svakog dana;
01:39
they have difficult conversations with difficult people,
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vode teške razgovore sa teškim ljudima,
01:42
sometimes during very difficult times.
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ponekada u veoma teškim vremenima.
01:44
And they start up that path
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Započinju taj posao prihvatajući
01:46
by accepting a core proposition,
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jednu osnovnu pretpostavku,
01:48
and that proposition is the following:
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zasnovanu na ideji da je
01:50
Lying is a cooperative act.
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laganje uzajamni čin.
01:53
Think about it, a lie has no power whatsoever by its mere utterance.
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Ukoliko razmislite o tome, uočićete da laž sama po sebi nema značajnost.
01:57
Its power emerges
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Moć laganja se pojavljuje u momentu
01:59
when someone else agrees to believe the lie.
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kada neko pristane da veruje u laž.
02:01
So I know it may sound like tough love,
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Znam da ovo može da zvuči kao gruba ljubav,
02:03
but look, if at some point you got lied to,
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ali, ukoliko ste nekada bili slagani,
02:07
it's because you agreed to get lied to.
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to je usled toga što ste pristali da vas neko laže.
02:09
Truth number one about lying: Lying's a cooperative act.
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Prva istina koja karakteriše laganje: za laganje je potrebno dvoje.
02:12
Now not all lies are harmful.
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Nisu sve laži štetne.
02:14
Sometimes we're willing participants in deception
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Ponekada iz društveno opravdanih razloga
02:17
for the sake of social dignity,
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svojevoljno pristajemo na prevaru,
02:20
maybe to keep a secret that should be kept secret, secret.
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možda kako bismo sačuvali tajnu, koja treba da ostane tajna.
02:23
We say, "Nice song."
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Kažemo: "Lepa pesma."
02:25
"Honey, you don't look fat in that, no."
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Dušo, ne izgledaš debelo u tome.
02:28
Or we say, favorite of the digiratti,
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Ili, moja omiljena u informacionim tehnologijama,
02:30
"You know, I just fished that email out of my spam folder.
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"Znaš, upravo sam naleteo na tvoje elektronsko pismo u folderu
02:33
So sorry."
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za neželjenu poštu. Izvini."
02:36
But there are times when we are unwilling participants in deception.
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Ali isto tako nekada ne pristajemo da budemo deo prevare.
02:39
And that can have dramatic costs for us.
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To može imati dramatične posledice po nas.
02:42
Last year saw 997 billion dollars
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Prošle godine smo u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama doživeli pljačku
02:45
in corporate fraud alone in the United States.
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od 997 milijardi dolara od strane velikih kompanija.
02:49
That's an eyelash under a trillion dollars.
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To je samo malo manje od trilion dolara.
02:51
That's seven percent of revenues.
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To je 7% od ukupnih javnih prihoda.
02:53
Deception can cost billions.
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Prevare mogu koštati bilione.
02:55
Think Enron, Madoff, the mortgage crisis.
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Pomislite na Enron, Madofa, kreditnu krizu.
02:58
Or in the case of double agents and traitors,
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Laži dvostrukih špijuna i izdajnika kao
03:01
like Robert Hanssen or Aldrich Ames,
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što su Robert Hansen ili Aldrih Ejms,
03:03
lies can betray our country,
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mogu izdati našu zemlju,
03:05
they can compromise our security, they can undermine democracy,
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mogu ugroziti našu sigurnost, mogu uništiti demokratiju.
03:08
they can cause the deaths of those that defend us.
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mogu ubiti one koji nas štite.
03:11
Deception is actually serious business.
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Prevara je u principu ozbiljan posao.
03:14
This con man, Henry Oberlander,
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Ovaj prevarant, Henri Oberlander,
03:16
he was such an effective con man
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je bio toliko uspešan prevarant
03:18
British authorities say
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da britanske vlasti tvrde
03:20
he could have undermined the entire banking system of the Western world.
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da je mogao da uzdrma celokupan bankarski sistem zapadnog sveta.
03:23
And you can't find this guy on Google; you can't find him anywhere.
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Ne možete da pronađete ovog tipa nigde, ni na Googlu.
03:25
He was interviewed once, and he said the following.
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Postoji jedan njegov intervju kada je rekao sledeće.
03:28
He said, "Look, I've got one rule."
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Rekao je. "Gledajte, ja imam jedno pravilo."
03:30
And this was Henry's rule, he said,
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Ovo je Henrijevo pravilo. Rekao je:
03:33
"Look, everyone is willing to give you something.
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"Gledajte, svako je raspoložen da vam pruži nešto.
03:35
They're ready to give you something for whatever it is they're hungry for."
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Raspoloženi su da vam daju nešto u zamenu za ono za čim žude."
03:38
And that's the crux of it.
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To je srž laganja.
03:40
If you don't want to be deceived, you have to know,
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Ukoliko ne želite da budete prevareni, tada morate znati
03:42
what is it that you're hungry for?
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šta je ono za čim žudite.
03:44
And we all kind of hate to admit it.
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Nama je zaista teško to da priznamo.
03:47
We wish we were better husbands, better wives,
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Želeleli bismo da budemo bolji muževi, bolje supruge,
03:50
smarter, more powerful,
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pametniji, moćniji,
03:52
taller, richer --
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viši, bogatiji,
03:54
the list goes on.
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nema kraja toj listi.
03:56
Lying is an attempt to bridge that gap,
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Laganje je pokušaj da premostimo taj jaz,
03:58
to connect our wishes and our fantasies
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da povežemo naše želje i fantazije
04:00
about who we wish we were, how we wish we could be,
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o tome šta želimo da budemo, šta želimo da možemo da postanemo,
04:03
with what we're really like.
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i onoga što zaista jesmo.
04:06
And boy are we willing to fill in those gaps in our lives with lies.
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Ah, zaista smo spremni da te praznine u našim životima popunimo lažima.
04:09
On a given day, studies show that you may be lied to
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Studije pokazuju da bilo kog dana možete biti slagani
04:12
anywhere from 10 to 200 times.
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između 10 i 200 puta.
04:14
Now granted, many of those are white lies.
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Naravno, u većini slučajeva su to bele laži.
04:17
But in another study,
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Neka druga studija je pokazala
04:19
it showed that strangers lied three times
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da nepoznate osobe slažu tri puta
04:21
within the first 10 minutes of meeting each other.
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u toku prvih 10 minuta poznanstva.
04:23
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
04:25
Now when we first hear this data, we recoil.
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Mi se zamislimo kada po prvi put čujemo ove podatke.
04:28
We can't believe how prevalent lying is.
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Ne možemo da poverujemo koliko je zastupljeno laganje.
04:30
We're essentially against lying.
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Mi smo u principu protiv laganja.
04:32
But if you look more closely,
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Ukoliko to dublje izanalizirate,
04:34
the plot actually thickens.
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situacija postaje sve komplikovanija.
04:36
We lie more to strangers than we lie to coworkers.
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Više lažemo slučajne prolaznike od naših kolega.
04:39
Extroverts lie more than introverts.
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Ekstrovertni ljudi lažu više od introvertnih.
04:43
Men lie eight times more about themselves
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Muškarci lažu 8 puta više o sebi
04:46
than they do other people.
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nego o drugim ljudima.
04:48
Women lie more to protect other people.
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Žene lažu da bi zaštitile druge ljude.
04:51
If you're an average married couple,
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Ukoliko ste u braku,
04:54
you're going to lie to your spouse
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slagaćete svog bračnog para
04:56
in one out of every 10 interactions.
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u jednom od 10 razgovora.
04:58
Now you may think that's bad.
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Možda mislite da je to loše.
05:00
If you're unmarried, that number drops to three.
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Ukoliko niste u braku, lažete u 30% razgovora.
05:02
Lying's complex.
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Laganje je kompleksan fenomen.
05:04
It's woven into the fabric of our daily and our business lives.
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Utkano je u način funkcionisanja naše svakodnevice i poslovanja.
05:07
We're deeply ambivalent about the truth.
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Imamo poprilično kontradiktorne misli o istini.
05:09
We parse it out on an as-needed basis,
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Pažljivo je analiziramo onda kada nam je to potrebno,
05:11
sometimes for very good reasons,
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ponekada iz validnih razloga, a u nekim
05:13
other times just because we don't understand the gaps in our lives.
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drugim slučajevima samo zato što ne razumemo rascepe u našim životima.
05:16
That's truth number two about lying.
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To je najveća istina o laganju.
05:18
We're against lying,
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Mi smo protiv laganja,
05:20
but we're covertly for it
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ali nekako tajno ipak to prihvatamo
05:22
in ways that our society has sanctioned
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na načine koji su vekovima bili sakcionisani
05:24
for centuries and centuries and centuries.
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od strane društva.
05:26
It's as old as breathing.
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Staro je koliko i disanje.
05:28
It's part of our culture, it's part of our history.
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To je deo naše kulture i naše istorije.
05:30
Think Dante, Shakespeare,
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Setite se Dantea, Šekspira,
05:33
the Bible, News of the World.
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Biblije, Vesti Sveta.
05:36
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
05:38
Lying has evolutionary value to us as a species.
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Za nas kao vrstu, laganje ima evolutivni značaj.
05:40
Researchers have long known
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Istraživači već dugo znaju
05:42
that the more intelligent the species,
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da što su vrste inteligentnije,
05:44
the larger the neocortex,
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njihov neokorteks je veći,
05:46
the more likely it is to be deceptive.
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i veća je verovatnoća da budu prevaranti.
05:48
Now you might remember Koko.
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Možda se sećate Koko.
05:50
Does anybody remember Koko the gorilla who was taught sign language?
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Da li se iko seća gorile Koko koja je naučila govor simbola?
05:53
Koko was taught to communicate via sign language.
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Koko je naučena da komunicira jezikom simbola.
05:56
Here's Koko with her kitten.
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Ovo je njeno mače --
05:58
It's her cute little, fluffy pet kitten.
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To je njeno slatko, malo, mekano mačence.
06:01
Koko once blamed her pet kitten
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Koko je jednom optužila mače
06:03
for ripping a sink out of the wall.
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da je iščupalo lavabo iz zida.
06:05
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
06:07
We're hardwired to become leaders of the pack.
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U našim genima je da postanemo vođe čopora.
06:09
It's starts really, really early.
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To počinje veoma, veoma rano.
06:11
How early?
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Koliko rano?
06:13
Well babies will fake a cry,
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Bebe simuliraju plakanje,
06:15
pause, wait to see who's coming
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naprave pauzu i sačekaju da vide rezultat
06:17
and then go right back to crying.
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i ponovo se rasplaču.
06:19
One-year-olds learn concealment.
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Nakon prve godine naučimo se prikrivanju.
06:21
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
06:23
Two-year-olds bluff.
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Dvogodišnjaci blefiraju.
06:25
Five-year-olds lie outright.
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Petogodišnjaci otvoreno lažu.
06:27
They manipulate via flattery.
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Koriste umiljavanje kako bi manipulisali nama.
06:29
Nine-year-olds, masters of the cover up.
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Devetogodišnjaci su majstori prikrivanja činjenica.
06:32
By the time you enter college,
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Kada upišete studije vi ste na stadijumu
06:34
you're going to lie to your mom in one out of every five interactions.
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kada svoju majku slažete u jednom od pet razgovora.
06:37
By the time we enter this work world and we're breadwinners,
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Kada se zaposlimo i zarađujemo novac kojim izdržavamo familiju,
06:40
we enter a world that is just cluttered
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nađemo se u pomalo konfuznom svetu
06:42
with spam, fake digital friends,
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punom neželjenih poruka, lažnim virtualnim prijateljima,
06:44
partisan media,
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politički orijentisanim medijima,
06:46
ingenious identity thieves,
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naprednim kradljivcima identiteta,
06:48
world-class Ponzi schemers,
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prvoklasnim tvorcima piramidalnih shema,
06:50
a deception epidemic --
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rečju, epidemijom prevara --
06:52
in short, what one author calls
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ili ako sumiramo sve to, jedan autor zove sve ovo
06:54
a post-truth society.
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društvo "post-istine".
06:57
It's been very confusing
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Sve je to već veoma zbunjujuće
06:59
for a long time now.
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već jako dugo.
07:03
What do you do?
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Šta treba da uradite?
07:05
Well there are steps we can take
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Postoje metode koje možemo primeniti kako bismo
07:07
to navigate our way through the morass.
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uspešno vodili svoj život u takvom jednom blatu.
07:09
Trained liespotters get to the truth 90 percent of the time.
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Stručnjaci uspevaju da dođu do istine u 90% slučajeva.
07:12
The rest of us, we're only 54 percent accurate.
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Mi obični smrtnici, uspevamo u 54% slučajeva.
07:15
Why is it so easy to learn?
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Zašto je to tako lako naučiti?
07:17
There are good liars and there are bad liars. There are no real original liars.
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Postoje dobri i loši lažovi. Ne postoje pravi, originalni lažovi.
07:20
We all make the same mistakes. We all use the same techniques.
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Svi pravimo iste greške. Svi koristimo iste tehnike.
07:23
So what I'm going to do
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Sada ću vam pokazati dva
07:25
is I'm going to show you two patterns of deception.
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tipična šablona prevare.
07:27
And then we're going to look at the hot spots and see if we can find them ourselves.
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Potom ćemo uočiti glavne momente i pokušaćemo sami da ih pronađemo.
07:30
We're going to start with speech.
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Počećemo sa jednim govorom.
07:33
(Video) Bill Clinton: I want you to listen to me.
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(Video) Bil Klinton: Želim da me saslušate.
07:35
I'm going to say this again.
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Ponoviću ovo.
07:37
I did not have sexual relations
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Nisam imao seksualni odnos
07:40
with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.
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sa tom ženom, gospođicom Levinski.
07:44
I never told anybody to lie,
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Nikome nikada nisam naredio da laže,
07:46
not a single time, never.
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ni jednom, nikada.
07:48
And these allegations are false.
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Sve te optužbe su lažne.
07:51
And I need to go back to work for the American people.
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Sada treba da se vratim svom radu za američki narod.
07:53
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
07:58
Pamela Meyer: Okay, what were the telltale signs?
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Pamela Mejer: Okej, gde su ovde izdajnički signali?
08:01
Well first we heard what's known as a non-contracted denial.
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Mogli smo prvo čuti nešto što se zove bezuslovno poricanje.
08:05
Studies show that people who are overdetermined in their denial
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Studije pokazuju da će se ljudi koji su zaista usredsređeni na poricanje istine
08:08
will resort to formal rather than informal language.
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koristiti pre oficijalnim, a ne neformalnim govorom.
08:11
We also heard distancing language: "that woman."
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Uočili smo takođe i fraze kao što su "ta žena".
08:14
We know that liars will unconsciously distance themselves
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Znamo da će se lažovi podsvesno distancirati
08:16
from their subject
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od svojih subjekata
08:18
using language as their tool.
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koristeći jezik kao svoje oruđe.
08:21
Now if Bill Clinton had said, "Well, to tell you the truth ... "
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Sada, da je Bil Klinoton rekao: "Pa, iskreno govoreći...."
08:24
or Richard Nixon's favorite, "In all candor ... "
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ili omiljeni izraz Ričarada Niksona: "Poptuno iskreno..."
08:26
he would have been a dead giveaway
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potpuno bi razotkrio sebe
08:28
for any liespotter than knows
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jer svako ko je treniran da uoči laž zna
08:30
that qualifying language, as it's called, qualifying language like that,
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da alarmirajući način govora, kako se stručno naziva,
08:33
further discredits the subject.
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samo uspešnije diskredituje osobu.
08:35
Now if he had repeated the question in its entirety,
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Da smo doslovce ponovili pitanje,
08:38
or if he had peppered his account with a little too much detail --
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ili da je on začinio svoju priču sa previše detalja
08:42
and we're all really glad he didn't do that --
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a drago nam je da nije to uradio
08:44
he would have further discredited himself.
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on bi još više diskreditovao sebe.
08:46
Freud had it right.
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Frojd je to dobro shvatio.
08:48
Freud said, look, there's much more to it than speech:
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Frojd je rekao da tu postoji mnogo više od samog govora
08:51
"No mortal can keep a secret.
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"Nijedan čovek ne može da sačuva tajnu.
08:54
If his lips are silent, he chatters with his fingertips."
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Ukoliko su mu usne zalivene, onda blebeće svojim vrhovima prstiju."
08:57
And we all do it no matter how powerful you are.
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Svi mi to radimo bez obzira koliko smo moćni.
09:00
We all chatter with our fingertips.
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Svi se mi odajemo različitim pokretima.
09:02
I'm going to show you Dominique Strauss-Kahn with Obama
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Pokazaću vam susret Dominik Štraus-Kana i Obame
09:05
who's chattering with his fingertips.
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koji se prosto oktrio govorom svojih vrhova prstiju.
09:08
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
09:11
Now this brings us to our next pattern,
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Ovo nas dovodi do našeg sledećeg šablona,
09:14
which is body language.
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a to je govor tela.
09:17
With body language, here's what you've got to do.
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Ovako treba da shvatite govor tela.
09:20
You've really got to just throw your assumptions out the door.
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Treba da se oslobodite svih predrasuda koje imate.
09:23
Let the science temper your knowledge a little bit.
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Dozvolite nauci da produbi malo vaše znanje.
09:25
Because we think liars fidget all the time.
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Mi mislimo da lažovi deluju uznemireno sve vreme.
09:28
Well guess what, they're known to freeze their upper bodies when they're lying.
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E pa poznato je da oni prosto ukoče gornji deo tela dok lažu.
09:31
We think liars won't look you in the eyes.
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Mislimo da nas lažovi neće gledati pravo u oči.
09:34
Well guess what, they look you in the eyes a little too much
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E pa, oni nas ustvari čak i previše gledaju pravo u oči
09:36
just to compensate for that myth.
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kako bi neutralisali taj mit.
09:38
We think warmth and smiles
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Mislimo da toplina i osmeh
09:40
convey honesty, sincerity.
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stoje iza poštenja, iskrenosti.
09:42
But a trained liespotter
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Iskusni poznavalac signala laganja
09:44
can spot a fake smile a mile away.
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može na kilometar uočiti lažan osmeh.
09:46
Can you all spot the fake smile here?
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Da li svi vi možete da uočite lažan osmeh ovde?
09:50
You can consciously contract
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Možemo svesno grčiti
09:52
the muscles in your cheeks.
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mišiće obraza.
09:55
But the real smile's in the eyes, the crow's feet of the eyes.
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Ali pravi osmeh je u očima.
09:58
They cannot be consciously contracted,
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Ne možemo svesno kontrahovati mišiće očiju,
10:00
especially if you overdid the Botox.
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a naročito ne ukoliko ste preterali sa botoksom.
10:02
Don't overdo the Botox; nobody will think you're honest.
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Ne preterujte sa botoksom, niko neće poverovati da ste iskreni.
10:05
Now we're going to look at the hot spots.
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Sada ćemo analizirati najvažnije pokazatelje.
10:07
Can you tell what's happening in a conversation?
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Da li možete da razlučite šta se dešava u ovom razgovoru?
10:09
Can you start to find the hot spots
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Da li ste u stanju da uočite glavne pokazatelje
10:12
to see the discrepancies
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protivurečnosti između
10:14
between someone's words and someone's actions?
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nečijih reči i dela?
10:16
Now I know it seems really obvious,
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Znam da deluje očigledno, ali
10:18
but when you're having a conversation
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u razgovoru sa osobom
10:20
with someone you suspect of deception,
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za koju sumnjate da vas vara,
10:23
attitude is by far the most overlooked but telling of indicators.
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sam stav nam govori mnogo više o laganju i istini.
10:26
An honest person is going to be cooperative.
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Poštena osoba će biti otvorena za saradnju.
10:28
They're going to show they're on your side.
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Pokazaće vam da su na vašoj strani.
10:30
They're going to be enthusiastic.
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Biće entuzijastični.
10:32
They're going to be willing and helpful to getting you to the truth.
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Biće raspoloženi da vam pomognu da dođete do istine.
10:34
They're going to be willing to brainstorm, name suspects,
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Biće raspoloženi da razmene ideje, da imenuje sumnjive osobe,
10:37
provide details.
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da vam kažu detalje.
10:39
They're going to say, "Hey,
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Rećiće vam: "Slušaj,
10:41
maybe it was those guys in payroll that forged those checks."
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možda je tip iz platne službe lažirao čekove."
10:44
They're going to be infuriated if they sense they're wrongly accused
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Biće jako besni ukoliko osete da su greškom osuđeni
10:47
throughout the entire course of the interview, not just in flashes;
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tokom celog intervjua, a ne samo s vremena na vreme;
10:49
they'll be infuriated throughout the entire course of the interview.
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biće besni sve vreme tokom intervjua.
10:52
And if you ask someone honest
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Ukoliko upitate poštenu osobu
10:54
what should happen to whomever did forge those checks,
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šta bi trebalo da se desi onome ko je falsifikovao čekove,
10:57
an honest person is much more likely
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mnogo je verovatnije da će poštena osoba
10:59
to recommend strict rather than lenient punishment.
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predložiti strogu, a ne blagu kaznu.
11:03
Now let's say you're having that exact same conversation
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Zamislimo sada da vodite apsolutno isti razgovor
11:05
with someone deceptive.
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sa nekim ko laže.
11:07
That person may be withdrawn,
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Osoba može biti nekomunikativna, tiha,
11:09
look down, lower their voice,
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sklanjaće pogled, pričaće tihim glasom,
11:11
pause, be kind of herky-jerky.
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praviće česte pauze, delovaće malo sumanuto.
11:13
Ask a deceptive person to tell their story,
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Ukoliko Vam osoba koja nešto skriva priča priču
11:15
they're going to pepper it with way too much detail
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začiniće je nepotrebnim detaljima
11:18
in all kinds of irrelevant places.
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koji su potpuno nevažni.
11:21
And then they're going to tell their story in strict chronological order.
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Ispričaće svoju priču u tačno određenom hronološkom redosledu.
11:24
And what a trained interrogator does
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Iskusni ispitivač
11:26
is they come in and in very subtle ways
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koristi veoma suptilne metode u toku
11:28
over the course of several hours,
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razgovora koji traje nekoliko sati.
11:30
they will ask that person to tell that story backwards,
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On zamoli osobu da ispriča istu priču od njenog kraja,
11:33
and then they'll watch them squirm,
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a onda uoči trenutak kada se neko neugodno meškolji,
11:35
and track which questions produce the highest volume of deceptive tells.
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i analizira koja su to pitanja koja dovode do najneprijatnijih stanja kod ispitanika.
11:38
Why do they do that? Well we all do the same thing.
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Zašto to uopšte rade? Pa, mi svi radimo iste stvari.
11:41
We rehearse our words,
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Mi vežbamo svoju priču,
11:43
but we rarely rehearse our gestures.
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ali retko uvežbavamo našu gestikulaciju.
11:45
We say "yes," we shake our heads "no."
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Kažemo "da", a pokretima glave govorimo "ne".
11:47
We tell very convincing stories, we slightly shrug our shoulders.
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Dok pričamo veoma ubedljive priče, lagano ih pak negiramo pokretima ramena.
11:50
We commit terrible crimes,
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Počinimo užasne zločine,
11:52
and we smile at the delight in getting away with it.
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ali se naslađujemo spoznajom da smo izmakli kažnjavanju.
11:55
Now that smile is known in the trade as "duping delight."
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Taj osmeh je poznat u sferi analize laži kao "podmukli osmeh".
11:58
And we're going to see that in several videos moving forward,
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Uočićemo taj fenomen u nekoliko video snimaka kasnije,
12:01
but we're going to start -- for those of you who don't know him,
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a počećemo analizu sa predsedničkim kandidatom
12:03
this is presidential candidate John Edwards
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Džonom Edvardsom, ukoliko ne znate ko je ova osoba --
12:06
who shocked America by fathering a child out of wedlock.
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on je zapanjio Ameriku svojim vanbračnim detetom.
12:09
We're going to see him talk about getting a paternity test.
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Pogledaćemo njegov intervju u kojem priča o proveri očinstva.
12:12
See now if you can spot him
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Potrudite se da uočite momente
12:14
saying, "yes" while shaking his head "no,"
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kada on kaže "da", a pokretima glave kaže "ne",
12:16
slightly shrugging his shoulders.
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i neprimetno gestikulira ramenima.
12:18
(Video) John Edwards: I'd be happy to participate in one.
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(Video) Džon Edvars: Bio bih srećan da uradim test.
12:20
I know that it's not possible that this child could be mine,
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Znam da je nemoguće da je to dete moje,
12:23
because of the timing of events.
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jer se prosto vreme događaja ne podudara.
12:25
So I know it's not possible.
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Tako da znam da je nemoguće.
12:27
Happy to take a paternity test,
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Bio bih presrećan da odradimo test očinstva,
12:29
and would love to see it happen.
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voleo bih da vidim da se to desi.
12:31
Interviewer: Are you going to do that soon? Is there somebody --
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Ispitivač: Da li ćete to učiniti uskoro? Da li postoji neko...
12:34
JE: Well, I'm only one side. I'm only one side of the test.
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DŽE: Pa, ja činim samo jednu stranu jednačine. Ja sam samo jedan deo testa.
12:37
But I'm happy to participate in one.
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Ali bih bio srećan da uradim taj test.
12:40
PM: Okay, those head shakes are much easier to spot
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PM: U redu, pokreti glavom su mnogo uočljiviji
12:42
once you know to look for them.
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kada znate na šta treba da obratite pažnju.
12:44
There're going to be times
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U nekim situacijama osobe imaju
12:46
when someone makes one expression
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određenu ekspresiju kojom
12:48
while masking another that just kind of leaks through in a flash.
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prikrivaju drugu, koja ipak u jednom momentu ispliva na površinu.
12:52
Murderers are known to leak sadness.
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Poznato je da ubice pokazuju znake tugovanja.
12:54
Your new joint venture partner might shake your hand,
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Vaš novi poslovni prijatelj se može rukovati sa vama,
12:56
celebrate, go out to dinner with you
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slaviti i izlaziti na večere sa vama,
12:58
and then leak an expression of anger.
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a onda odjednom možete uočiti bes kod njega.
13:01
And we're not all going to become facial expression experts overnight here,
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Nećemo mi ovde preko noći postati eksperti u razumevanju facijalne ekspresije,
13:04
but there's one I can teach you that's very dangerous, and it's easy to learn,
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ali mogu vas naučiti da prepoznate jedan jako opasan znak, a lako ga je uočiti,
13:07
and that's the expression of contempt.
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to je ekspresija nipodaštavanja, prezira.
13:10
Now with anger, you've got two people on an even playing field.
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U slučaju osećanja besa i dalje govorimo o ravnopravnim odnosima.
13:13
It's still somewhat of a healthy relationship.
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To i dalje podseća na zdrav odnos.
13:15
But when anger turns to contempt,
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Kada se bes pretvori u prezir,
13:17
you've been dismissed.
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vi ste u potpunosti otpisani.
13:19
It's associated with moral superiority.
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To je povezano sa moralnom superiornošću.
13:21
And for that reason, it's very, very hard to recover from.
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Zato je jako teško oporaviti se od toga.
13:24
Here's what it looks like.
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Baš ovako izgleda.
13:26
It's marked by one lip corner
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Karakterisan je podignutim i uvučenim
13:28
pulled up and in.
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uglom usne.
13:30
It's the only asymmetrical expression.
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To je jedini asimetrični facijalni izraz.
13:33
And in the presence of contempt,
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U slučaju prezira,
13:35
whether or not deception follows --
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bez obzira da li tu sledi neka prevera,
13:37
and it doesn't always follow --
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a ne dešava se svaki put prevara,
13:39
look the other way, go the other direction,
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bežite od tog dogovora, nađite druge mogućnosti,
13:41
reconsider the deal,
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porazmilite o ugovorenom dogovoru,
13:43
say, "No thank you. I'm not coming up for just one more nightcap. Thank you."
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recite: "Ne, hvala. Ne želim da dođem na piće. Hvala vam."
13:47
Science has surfaced
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Nauka je došla do još
13:49
many, many more indicators.
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mnogo,mnogo indikatora.
13:51
We know, for example,
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Znamo, na primer,
13:53
we know liars will shift their blink rate,
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da lažovi menjaju učestalost treptanja,
13:55
point their feet towards an exit.
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usmeravaju svoja stopala ka izlazu.
13:57
They will take barrier objects
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Postaviće različite stvari kao branik između
13:59
and put them between themselves and the person that is interviewing them.
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sebe i osobe koja ih ispituje.
14:02
They'll alter their vocal tone,
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Oni menjaju boju svog glasa,
14:04
often making their vocal tone much lower.
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i često govore mnogo nižim tonalitetom.
14:07
Now here's the deal.
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U ovome je caka.
14:09
These behaviors are just behaviors.
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Ovo je zaista samo ponašanje, putokaz.
14:12
They're not proof of deception.
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To nikako nije dokaz prevare.
14:14
They're red flags.
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To su znaci uzbune.
14:16
We're human beings.
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Svi smo mi ljudska bića.
14:18
We make deceptive flailing gestures all over the place all day long.
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Mi sami u toku dana napravimo nekoliko gestikulacija koje aludiraju na prevaru.
14:21
They don't mean anything in and of themselves.
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Sami po sebi, ti signali ne znače ništa.
14:23
But when you see clusters of them, that's your signal.
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Ali ukoliko uočite niz povezanih indikatora prevare, to je vaš pravi signal.
14:26
Look, listen, probe, ask some hard questions,
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Gledajte, slušajte, isprobavajte, postavljajte teška pitanja,
14:29
get out of that very comfortable mode of knowing,
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napustite komfornu zonu sigurnosti,
14:32
walk into curiosity mode, ask more questions,
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budite radoznali, postavljajte više pitanja,
14:35
have a little dignity, treat the person you're talking to with rapport.
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pokažite malo poštovanja, pokažite razumevanje prema osobi sa kojom razgovarate.
14:38
Don't try to be like those folks on "Law & Order" and those other TV shows
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Ne pokušavajte da budete kao ekipa sa TV serije "Law&Order" i drugih serija
14:41
that pummel their subjects into submission.
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koji primenom brutalne sile dovedu subjekte do potčinjenosti.
14:43
Don't be too aggressive, it doesn't work.
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Agresivnost nije dobar recept u ovim slučajevima.
14:46
Now we've talked a little bit
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Malo smo pričali danas o tome
14:48
about how to talk to someone who's lying
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kako pričati sa nekim ko laže i kako
14:50
and how to spot a lie.
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je moguće uočiti laž.
14:52
And as I promised, we're now going to look at what the truth looks like.
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Obećala sam vam takođe da ćemo pričati i o istini, kako istina izgleda.
14:55
But I'm going to show you two videos,
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Pokazaću vam dva snimka,
14:57
two mothers -- one is lying, one is telling the truth.
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radi se o dve majke, jedna laže, jedna govori isitnu.
15:00
And these were surfaced
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Pronašao ih je istraživač
15:02
by researcher David Matsumoto in California.
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Dejvid Matsumoto u Kaliforniji.
15:04
And I think they're an excellent example
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Mislim da ovi snimci predstavljaju
15:06
of what the truth looks like.
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odličan primer toga kako istina izgleda.
15:08
This mother, Diane Downs,
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Ova majka, Dajen Dons,
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shot her kids at close range,
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je upucala sa malog rastojanja svoju decu,
15:12
drove them to the hospital
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odvezla ih do bolnice,
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while they bled all over the car,
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dok su oni krvarili u kolima,
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claimed a scraggy-haired stranger did it.
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a ona je trvdila da ih je ubio stranac neugledne kose.
15:18
And you'll see when you see the video,
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Uvidećete kada pogledate snimak,
15:20
she can't even pretend to be an agonizing mother.
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da ona čak i ne uspeva da odglumi majku u potpunoj agoniji.
15:22
What you want to look for here
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Ono što želite da uočite ovde
15:24
is an incredible discrepancy
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je neverovatan rascep
15:26
between horrific events that she describes
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između užasnih događaja koje ona opisuje
15:28
and her very, very cool demeanor.
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i njenog veoma pribranog stava.
15:30
And if you look closely, you'll see duping delight throughout this video.
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Ukoliko je pažljivo analizirate, uočićete taj podmukli osmeh tokom celog snimka.
15:33
(Video) Diane Downs: At night when I close my eyes,
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(Snimak) Dajen Dons: Kada zatvorim oči noću,
15:35
I can see Christie reaching her hand out to me while I'm driving,
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vidim samo svoju Kristi kako pruža ruku ka meni dok vozim,
15:38
and the blood just kept coming out of her mouth.
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i krv koja je konstantno lila iz njenih usta.
15:41
And that -- maybe it'll fade too with time --
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Možda će to nestati sa vremenom,
15:43
but I don't think so.
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ali sumnjam u to.
15:45
That bothers me the most.
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To me najviše uznemirava.
15:55
PM: Now I'm going to show you a video
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PM: Sada ću vam pokazati snimak
15:57
of an actual grieving mother, Erin Runnion,
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zaista ožalošćene majke, Erin Runion,
15:59
confronting her daughter's murderer and torturer in court.
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koja se na sudu obraća ubici i mučitelju svoje ćerke.
16:03
Here you're going to see no false emotion,
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Uočićete ovde prave emocije,
16:05
just the authentic expression of a mother's agony.
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pravi, autentični izraz agonije majke.
16:08
(Video) Erin Runnion: I wrote this statement on the third anniversary
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(Video) Erin Runion: Napisala sam ovu izjavu na dan treće godišnjice
16:10
of the night you took my baby,
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dana kada si oteo moju devojčicu,
16:12
and you hurt her,
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i povredio je,
16:14
and you crushed her,
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i uništio je,
16:16
you terrified her until her heart stopped.
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i prestravljivao si je do momenta kada je njeno srce prestalo da radi.
16:20
And she fought, and I know she fought you.
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Ona se borila protive tebe, znam da se borila.
16:23
But I know she looked at you
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Znam da te je gledala
16:25
with those amazing brown eyes,
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svojim divnim smeđim očima,
16:27
and you still wanted to kill her.
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a ti si i dalje želeo da je ubiješ.
16:30
And I don't understand it,
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Ja to ne razumem,
16:32
and I never will.
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i nikada neću razumeti.
16:35
PM: Okay, there's no doubting the veracity of those emotions.
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PM: U redu, ovde ne postoji sumnja o verodostojnosti emocija.
16:39
Now the technology around what the truth looks like
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Tehnologija i nauka koja se bavi ispitavanjem istine
16:42
is progressing on, the science of it.
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je u fazi procvata.
16:45
We know for example
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Znamo da danas imamo
16:47
that we now have specialized eye trackers and infrared brain scans,
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specijalizovane uređaje za praćenje očiju kao i infracrvene skenere mozga,
16:50
MRI's that can decode the signals that our bodies send out
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magnenta rezonanca može da pročita signale koje naše telo šalje
16:53
when we're trying to be deceptive.
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kada pokušavamo da lažemo.
16:55
And these technologies are going to be marketed to all of us
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Prezentovaće nam ove tehnologije kao
16:58
as panaceas for deceit,
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ključ za uočavanje prevare,
17:00
and they will prove incredibly useful some day.
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i sigurno će se jednog dana pokazati kao veoma korisni uređaji.
17:03
But you've got to ask yourself in the meantime:
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Ali se vi u međuvremenu morate zapitati:
17:05
Who do you want on your side of the meeting,
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Koga želite da imate na svojoj strani na nekom sastanku,
17:07
someone who's trained in getting to the truth
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nekoga ko je treniran da nađe put do istine
17:10
or some guy who's going to drag a 400-pound electroencephalogram
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ili nekog tipa koji nosi sa sobom elekroencefalogram
17:12
through the door?
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koji je težak 180kg?
17:14
Liespotters rely on human tools.
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Ljudi koji su trenirani da uoče laži se oslanjaju na ljudsko oruđe.
17:18
They know, as someone once said,
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Oni znaju, kako to neko jednom reče,
17:20
"Character's who you are in the dark."
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u tami se pravo lice iskaže.
17:22
And what's kind of interesting
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Interesantno je baš to da u
17:24
is that today we have so little darkness.
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današnjem svetu sve postaje transparentno.
17:26
Our world is lit up 24 hours a day.
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Naš svet je pod budnim okom 24 sata dnevno.
17:29
It's transparent
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Potpuno je transparentan,
17:31
with blogs and social networks
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sa svim blogovima i socijalnim mrežama
17:33
broadcasting the buzz of a whole new generation of people
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koje emituju stavove čitave nove generacije ljudi
17:35
that have made a choice to live their lives in public.
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koji su doneli odluku da žive javnim životom.
17:38
It's a much more noisy world.
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Svet je mnogo bučniji.
17:42
So one challenge we have
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Izazov koji stoji pred nama
17:44
is to remember,
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je da zapamtimo da
17:46
oversharing, that's not honesty.
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preterana otvorenost nije iskrenost.
17:49
Our manic tweeting and texting
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Naše manično slanje poruka pomoću raznih medijuma
17:51
can blind us to the fact
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nas može učiniti slepim za uočavanje
17:53
that the subtleties of human decency -- character integrity --
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finih nijansi naše pristojnosti -- karaktera, integriteta --
17:56
that's still what matters, that's always what's going to matter.
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to je i dalje fenomen koji je relevantan i koji će uvek to biti.
17:59
So in this much noisier world,
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Tako da u ovom bučnijem svetu,
18:01
it might make sense for us
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ima smisla
18:03
to be just a little bit more explicit
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biti malo jasniji u priči o
18:05
about our moral code.
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moralnim standardima.
18:08
When you combine the science of recognizing deception
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Ukoliko iskombinujete dostignuća nauke koja
18:10
with the art of looking, listening,
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se bavi prepoznavanjem prevare sa veštinama posmatranja, slušanja,
18:12
you exempt yourself from collaborating in a lie.
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vi prosto ograđujete sebe od učestvovanja u laži.
18:15
You start up that path
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Vi pokrećete putanju na kojoj
18:17
of being just a little bit more explicit,
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će ljudi biti malo otvoreniji,
18:19
because you signal to everyone around you,
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jer saljete signale svima oko vas koji govore:
18:21
you say, "Hey, my world, our world,
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"Hej, moj svet, naš svet,
18:24
it's going to be an honest one.
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će biti iskreni svet.
18:26
My world is going to be one where truth is strengthened
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Moj svet će biti svet koji poštuje istinu
18:28
and falsehood is recognized and marginalized."
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i svet u kojima su prevare prepoznate i marginalizovane."
18:31
And when you do that,
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Kada to uradite, svet
18:33
the ground around you starts to shift just a little bit.
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oko vas će se malo promeniti.
18:36
And that's the truth. Thank you.
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To je istina. Hvala vam.
18:39
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Pamela Meyer - Lie detectorPamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth.
Why you should listen
Social media expert Pamela Meyer can tell when you’re lying. If it’s not your words that give you away, it’s your posture, eyes, breathing rate, fidgets, and a host of other indicators. Worse, we are all lied to up to 200 times a day, she says, from the white lies that allow society to function smoothly to the devastating duplicities that bring down corporations and break up families.
Working with a team of researchers over several years, Meyer, who is CEO of social networking company Simpatico Networks, collected and reviewed most of the research on deception that has been published, from such fields as law-enforcement, military, psychology and espionage. She then became an expert herself, receiving advanced training in deception detection, including multiple courses of advanced training in interrogation, microexpression analysis, statement analysis, behavior and body language interpretation, and emotion recognition. Her research is synthetized in her bestselling book Liespotting.
More profile about the speakerWorking with a team of researchers over several years, Meyer, who is CEO of social networking company Simpatico Networks, collected and reviewed most of the research on deception that has been published, from such fields as law-enforcement, military, psychology and espionage. She then became an expert herself, receiving advanced training in deception detection, including multiple courses of advanced training in interrogation, microexpression analysis, statement analysis, behavior and body language interpretation, and emotion recognition. Her research is synthetized in her bestselling book Liespotting.
Pamela Meyer | Speaker | TED.com