TEDGlobal 2011
Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar
Pamela Meyer: Kako uočiti lažljivca
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Svaki nam se dan slaže od 10 do 200 puta i znakovi za otkrivanje tih laži mogu biti suptilni i protuintuitivni. Pamela Meyer, autorica knjige „Liespotting“, pokazuje načine i aktivna mjesta koje koriste oni trenirani u prepoznavanju obmana -- i objašnjava zašto je iskrenost vrijednost koju treba očuvati.
Pamela Meyer - Lie detector
Pamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth. Full bio
Pamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Okay, now I don't want to alarm anybody in this room,
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Ok, sada ne želim uznemiriti nikog u ovoj prostoriji,
00:20
but it's just come to my attention
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ali upravo sam shvatila
00:22
that the person to your right is a liar.
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da je osoba desno od vas lažljivac.
00:24
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:26
Also, the person to your left is a liar.
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Također, osoba koja sjedi lijevo od vas je lažljivac.
00:29
Also the person sitting in your very seats is a liar.
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A i osoba koja sjedi u vašem sjedalu je lažljivac.
00:32
We're all liars.
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Svi smo lažljivci.
00:34
What I'm going to do today
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Ono što ću ja danas napraviti
00:36
is I'm going to show you what the research says about why we're all liars,
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je pokazati vam što istraživanje kaže o tome zašto smo svi lažljivci,
00:39
how you can become a liespotter
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kako možete uočavati laži
00:41
and why you might want to go the extra mile
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i zašto bismo mogli poželjeti napraviti korak dalje
00:44
and go from liespotting to truth seeking,
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i poći od uočavanja laži do traženja istine
00:47
and ultimately to trust building.
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i na kraju do gradnje povjerenja.
00:49
Now speaking of trust,
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Govoreći o povjerenju,
00:52
ever since I wrote this book, "Liespotting,"
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otkako sam napisala ovu knjigu „Liespotting“
00:55
no one wants to meet me in person anymore, no, no, no, no, no.
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nitko me ne želi upoznati uživo, ne, ne, ne, ne, ne.
00:58
They say, "It's okay, we'll email you."
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Kažu:“ U redu je, poslat ćemo vam elektronsku poštu.“
01:01
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:03
I can't even get a coffee date at Starbucks.
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Čak ne mogu dogovoriti niti kavu u Starbucksu.
01:07
My husband's like, "Honey, deception?
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Moj muž kaže: “Dušo, obmana?
01:09
Maybe you could have focused on cooking. How about French cooking?"
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Možda si se mogla fokusirati na kuhanje. Što kažeš na francusku kuhinju?“
01:12
So before I get started, what I'm going to do
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Pa ću ja prije nego što krenem, ono što ću napraviti
01:14
is I'm going to clarify my goal for you,
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je pojasniti vam svoj cilj,
01:17
which is not to teach a game of Gotcha.
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a to nije naučiti vas igru „Ulovio sam te!“.
01:19
Liespotters aren't those nitpicky kids,
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Uočavatelji laži nisu ona sitničava djeca,
01:21
those kids in the back of the room that are shouting, "Gotcha! Gotcha!
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ona djeca u stražnjem dijelu prostorije koja viču, „Ulovio sam te! Ulovio sam te!
01:24
Your eyebrow twitched. You flared your nostril.
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Trgnuo si obrvom. Nosnica ti se proširila.
01:27
I watch that TV show 'Lie To Me.' I know you're lying."
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Ja gledam „Laži mi“. Znam da lažeš.“
01:30
No, liespotters are armed
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Ne, uočavatelji laži su naoružani
01:32
with scientific knowledge of how to spot deception.
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znanstvenim saznanjima o tome kako prepoznati obmanu.
01:35
They use it to get to the truth,
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Oni ju koriste kako bi doprli do istine,
01:37
and they do what mature leaders do everyday;
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i oni rade ono što zreli vođe čine svaki dan,
01:39
they have difficult conversations with difficult people,
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vode teške razgovore s teškim ljudima,
01:42
sometimes during very difficult times.
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ponekad tijekom veoma teških vremena.
01:44
And they start up that path
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I oni kreću na taj put
01:46
by accepting a core proposition,
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prihvaćajući jedan temeljni problem,
01:48
and that proposition is the following:
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i taj je problem sljedeći:
01:50
Lying is a cooperative act.
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Laganje je kooperativni čin.
01:53
Think about it, a lie has no power whatsoever by its mere utterance.
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Razmislite o tome, laž nema apsolutno nikakvu moć samim izgovorom.
01:57
Its power emerges
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Njezina moć nastaje
01:59
when someone else agrees to believe the lie.
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kada netko drugi pristane vjerovati u nju.
02:01
So I know it may sound like tough love,
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Dakle, ja znam da to možda zvuči kao gruba ljubav,
02:03
but look, if at some point you got lied to,
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ako vam je u nekom trenutku netko lagao,
02:07
it's because you agreed to get lied to.
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to je zato jer ste pristali na to da vam se laže.
02:09
Truth number one about lying: Lying's a cooperative act.
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Istina broj jedan vezana uz laganje: Laganje je kooperativni čin.
02:12
Now not all lies are harmful.
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Naravno, nisu sve laži štetne.
02:14
Sometimes we're willing participants in deception
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Katkada smo voljni sudionici u obmani
02:17
for the sake of social dignity,
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radi socijalnog dostojanstva,
02:20
maybe to keep a secret that should be kept secret, secret.
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možda kako bismo sačuvali tajnom ono što bi trebalo ostati tajna.
02:23
We say, "Nice song."
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Kažemo: “Lijepa pjesma.“
02:25
"Honey, you don't look fat in that, no."
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“Draga, uopće ne izgledaš debelo u tome.“
02:28
Or we say, favorite of the digiratti,
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Ili kažemo, omiljenu tehnološku,
02:30
"You know, I just fished that email out of my spam folder.
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„Znaš, upravo sam izvadio taj mail iz spam foldera.
02:33
So sorry."
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Oprosti.“
02:36
But there are times when we are unwilling participants in deception.
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Ali postoje trenuci kada smo nevoljni sudionici u obmani.
02:39
And that can have dramatic costs for us.
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I to može imati dramatične posljedice za nas.
02:42
Last year saw 997 billion dollars
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Prošle godine smo vidjeli 997 milijardi dolara
02:45
in corporate fraud alone in the United States.
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samo u korporativnim prijevarama u Sjedinjenim Državama.
02:49
That's an eyelash under a trillion dollars.
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A to je samo mali dio bilijuna dolara.
02:51
That's seven percent of revenues.
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To je sedam posto prihoda.
02:53
Deception can cost billions.
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Obmana može koštati milijarde.
02:55
Think Enron, Madoff, the mortgage crisis.
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Sjetite se Enrona, Madoffa, krize s hipotekama.
02:58
Or in the case of double agents and traitors,
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Ili u slučaju dvostrukih agenata i izdajica
03:01
like Robert Hanssen or Aldrich Ames,
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poput Roberta Hanssena ili Aldricha Amesa,
03:03
lies can betray our country,
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laži mogu izdati našu domovinu,
03:05
they can compromise our security, they can undermine democracy,
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mogu ugroziti našu sigurnost, mogu potkopati demokraciju,
03:08
they can cause the deaths of those that defend us.
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mogu uzrokovati smrt onih koji nas brane.
03:11
Deception is actually serious business.
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Obmana je zapravo ozbiljan posao.
03:14
This con man, Henry Oberlander,
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Ovaj prevarant, Henry Oberlander,
03:16
he was such an effective con man
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bio je toliko učinkovit prevarant
03:18
British authorities say
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da britanske vlasti tvrde
03:20
he could have undermined the entire banking system of the Western world.
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da je mogao minirati cijeli bankovni sustav zapadnog svijeta.
03:23
And you can't find this guy on Google; you can't find him anywhere.
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I tog tipa ne možete naći na Googleu: nigdje ga ne možete naći.
03:25
He was interviewed once, and he said the following.
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Bio je intervjuiran jednom i rekao je slijedeće.
03:28
He said, "Look, I've got one rule."
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Rekao je: “Gledajte, ja imam jedno pravilo.“
03:30
And this was Henry's rule, he said,
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A ovo je bilo Henrijevo pravilo. Rekao je:
03:33
"Look, everyone is willing to give you something.
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“Gledajte, svi su vam voljni dati nešto.
03:35
They're ready to give you something for whatever it is they're hungry for."
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Spremni su vam dati nešto za što god bilo ono čega su gladni.“
03:38
And that's the crux of it.
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I to je srž svega.
03:40
If you don't want to be deceived, you have to know,
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Ako ne želite bit prevareni, morate znati,
03:42
what is it that you're hungry for?
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što je to za čime gladujete?
03:44
And we all kind of hate to admit it.
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I svi to zapravo mrzimo priznati.
03:47
We wish we were better husbands, better wives,
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Mi želimo biti bolji muževi, bolje supruge,
03:50
smarter, more powerful,
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pametniji, moćniji,
03:52
taller, richer --
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viši, bogatiji --
03:54
the list goes on.
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lista se nastavlja.
03:56
Lying is an attempt to bridge that gap,
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Laganje je pokušaj da se ta praznina premosti,
03:58
to connect our wishes and our fantasies
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da se povežu naše želje i naše fantazije
04:00
about who we wish we were, how we wish we could be,
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o tome tko bi željeli biti, kako bi željeli da možemo biti,
04:03
with what we're really like.
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s onim što zaista jesmo.
04:06
And boy are we willing to fill in those gaps in our lives with lies.
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I bome smo itekako voljni ispuniti te praznine u svojim životima laganjem.
04:09
On a given day, studies show that you may be lied to
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Tijekom bilo kojeg dana, studije pokazuju da vam je bilo lagano
04:12
anywhere from 10 to 200 times.
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od 10 do 200 puta.
04:14
Now granted, many of those are white lies.
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Naravno, mnoge od tih laži su nedužne laži.
04:17
But in another study,
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Ali u drugoj studiji,
04:19
it showed that strangers lied three times
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pokazala je da si stranci lažu tri puta
04:21
within the first 10 minutes of meeting each other.
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u prvih deset minuta poznanstva.
04:23
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:25
Now when we first hear this data, we recoil.
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Sada, kada prvi put čujemo taj podatak, ustuknemo.
04:28
We can't believe how prevalent lying is.
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Ne možemo vjerovati koliko je laganje sveobuhvatno.
04:30
We're essentially against lying.
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U načelu smo protiv laganja.
04:32
But if you look more closely,
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Ali ako pogledate pobliže,
04:34
the plot actually thickens.
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priča se zapravo zapetljava.
04:36
We lie more to strangers than we lie to coworkers.
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Više lažemo strancima nego što lažemo kolegama.
04:39
Extroverts lie more than introverts.
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Ekstrovertirane osobe lažu više od introvertiranih.
04:43
Men lie eight times more about themselves
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Muškarci lažu osam puta više o sebi
04:46
than they do other people.
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nego o drugim ljudima.
04:48
Women lie more to protect other people.
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Žene više lažu da zaštite druge ljude.
04:51
If you're an average married couple,
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Ako ste prosječan bračni par,
04:54
you're going to lie to your spouse
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lagat ćete svom supružniku
04:56
in one out of every 10 interactions.
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u jednoj od svakih deset interakcija.
04:58
Now you may think that's bad.
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Sada možete pomisliti da je to loše.
05:00
If you're unmarried, that number drops to three.
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Ako niste u braku, taj broj pada na tri.
05:02
Lying's complex.
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Laganje je kompleksno.
05:04
It's woven into the fabric of our daily and our business lives.
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Utkano je u naše privatne i poslovne živote.
05:07
We're deeply ambivalent about the truth.
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Duboko smo neodlučni po pitanju istine.
05:09
We parse it out on an as-needed basis,
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Analiziramo je prema potrebi,
05:11
sometimes for very good reasons,
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ponekad iz veoma dobrih razloga
05:13
other times just because we don't understand the gaps in our lives.
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a katkad jednostavno zato jer ne razumijemo praznine u vlastitim životima.
05:16
That's truth number two about lying.
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To je istina broj dva o laganju.
05:18
We're against lying,
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Protiv laži smo,
05:20
but we're covertly for it
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ali postajno smo za njih
05:22
in ways that our society has sanctioned
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na načine koje je naše društvo sankcioniralo
05:24
for centuries and centuries and centuries.
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stoljećima i stoljećima.
05:26
It's as old as breathing.
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To je staro kao i disanje.
05:28
It's part of our culture, it's part of our history.
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Dio je naše kulture, dio je naše povijesti.
05:30
Think Dante, Shakespeare,
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Sjetite se Dantea, Shakespearea,
05:33
the Bible, News of the World.
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Biblije, News of the World.
05:36
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:38
Lying has evolutionary value to us as a species.
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Laganje ima evolucionarnu ulogu za nas kao vrstu.
05:40
Researchers have long known
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Istraživači već jako dugo znaju
05:42
that the more intelligent the species,
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da što je vrsta inteligentnija,
05:44
the larger the neocortex,
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što je veći neokorteks,
05:46
the more likely it is to be deceptive.
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veća je šansa da bude varljiva.
05:48
Now you might remember Koko.
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Možda se sjećate Koko.
05:50
Does anybody remember Koko the gorilla who was taught sign language?
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Sjeća li se itko gorile Koko koju su naučili znakovni jezik?
05:53
Koko was taught to communicate via sign language.
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Kako je bila naučena da komunicira znakovnim jezikom.
05:56
Here's Koko with her kitten.
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Ovdje je Koko sa svojim mačetom.
05:58
It's her cute little, fluffy pet kitten.
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To je njezina slatka mala paperjasta kućna ljubimica.
06:01
Koko once blamed her pet kitten
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Koko je jednom optužila svoju mačku
06:03
for ripping a sink out of the wall.
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za kidanje umivaonika iz zida.
06:05
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:07
We're hardwired to become leaders of the pack.
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Mi smo „programirani“ da postanemo vođe čopora.
06:09
It's starts really, really early.
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To počinje vrlo, vrlo rano.
06:11
How early?
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Koliko rano?
06:13
Well babies will fake a cry,
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Pa bebe će odglumiti plač,
06:15
pause, wait to see who's coming
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stati, pričekati da vide tko dolazi
06:17
and then go right back to crying.
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i tada se vratiti plakanju.
06:19
One-year-olds learn concealment.
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Jednogodišnjaci nauče prikrivanje.
06:21
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:23
Two-year-olds bluff.
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Dvogodišnjaci blefiraju.
06:25
Five-year-olds lie outright.
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Petogodišnjaci izravno lažu.
06:27
They manipulate via flattery.
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Manipuliraju laskanjem.
06:29
Nine-year-olds, masters of the cover up.
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Devetogodišnjaci, majstori u prikrivanju.
06:32
By the time you enter college,
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Do vremena kada upišete fakultet,
06:34
you're going to lie to your mom in one out of every five interactions.
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lagat ćete mami u jednoj od svakih pet interakcija.
06:37
By the time we enter this work world and we're breadwinners,
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Kada dođemo u poslovni svijet i postanemo uzdržavatelji,
06:40
we enter a world that is just cluttered
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uđemo u svijet koji je jednostavno zakrčen
06:42
with spam, fake digital friends,
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spamom, lažnim digitalnim prijateljima,
06:44
partisan media,
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pristranim medijima,
06:46
ingenious identity thieves,
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genijalnim kradljivcima identiteta,
06:48
world-class Ponzi schemers,
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klasnim Ponzi prevarantima,
06:50
a deception epidemic --
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epidemija obmane --
06:52
in short, what one author calls
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ukratko, ono što jedan autor naziva
06:54
a post-truth society.
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„post-istina“ društvo.
06:57
It's been very confusing
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To je veoma zbunjujuće
06:59
for a long time now.
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već dugo vremena.
07:03
What do you do?
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Što učiniti?
07:05
Well there are steps we can take
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Pa postoje koraci koje možemo poduzeti
07:07
to navigate our way through the morass.
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kako bismo navigirali kroz tu močvaru.
07:09
Trained liespotters get to the truth 90 percent of the time.
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Trenirani uočavatelji laži dođu do istine 90% vremena.
07:12
The rest of us, we're only 54 percent accurate.
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Mi ostali smo samo 54% točni.
07:15
Why is it so easy to learn?
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Zašto je to tako lako naučiti?
07:17
There are good liars and there are bad liars. There are no real original liars.
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Postoje dobri lažljivci i postoje loši lažljivci. Ne postoje pravi originalni lažljivci.
07:20
We all make the same mistakes. We all use the same techniques.
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Svi radimo iste pogreške. Svi koristimo iste tehnike.
07:23
So what I'm going to do
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Sada ću vam
07:25
is I'm going to show you two patterns of deception.
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pokazati dva uzorka obmane.
07:27
And then we're going to look at the hot spots and see if we can find them ourselves.
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Tada ćemo pogledati aktivna mjesta i vidjeti možemo li ih sami uočiti.
07:30
We're going to start with speech.
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Počet ćemo s govorom.
07:33
(Video) Bill Clinton: I want you to listen to me.
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(Video) Bill Clinton: Želim da me poslušate.
07:35
I'm going to say this again.
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Reći ću ovo ponovno.
07:37
I did not have sexual relations
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Nisam imao seksualne odnose
07:40
with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.
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s tom ženom, gospođicom Lewinsky.
07:44
I never told anybody to lie,
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Nikad nisam nikome rekao da laže,
07:46
not a single time, never.
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ni jedan jedini put, nikad.
07:48
And these allegations are false.
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I ovi su navodi lažni.
07:51
And I need to go back to work for the American people.
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I ja se moram vratiti raditi za američki narod.
07:53
Thank you.
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Hvala.
07:58
Pamela Meyer: Okay, what were the telltale signs?
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Pamela Meyer: Ok, koji su bili izdajnički znakovi?
08:01
Well first we heard what's known as a non-contracted denial.
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Pa prvo što čujemo je poznato kao neugovoreno poricanje.
08:05
Studies show that people who are overdetermined in their denial
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Studije su pokazale da će ljudi koji su previše odlučni u svom poricanju
08:08
will resort to formal rather than informal language.
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pribjeći formalnom, a ne neformalnom jeziku.
08:11
We also heard distancing language: "that woman."
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Također smo čuli i jezik udaljavanja „tom ženom“.
08:14
We know that liars will unconsciously distance themselves
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Znamo da će se lažljivci podsvjesno udaljiti
08:16
from their subject
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od teme
08:18
using language as their tool.
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koristeći jezik kao oružje.
08:21
Now if Bill Clinton had said, "Well, to tell you the truth ... "
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Sada, da je Bill Clinton rekao „Pa, da budem iskren ...“
08:24
or Richard Nixon's favorite, "In all candor ... "
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ili omiljena Richarda Nixona, „U svoj iskrenosti ...“
08:26
he would have been a dead giveaway
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bio bi laka meta
08:28
for any liespotter than knows
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za bilo kojeg uočavatelja laži koji zna
08:30
that qualifying language, as it's called, qualifying language like that,
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da jezik koji kvalificira, kao što se i zove, jezik koji kvalificira tako,
08:33
further discredits the subject.
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samo dalje diskreditira subjekt.
08:35
Now if he had repeated the question in its entirety,
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Da je ponovio pitanje u potpunosti
08:38
or if he had peppered his account with a little too much detail --
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ili začinio svoj iskaz s malo previše detalja --
08:42
and we're all really glad he didn't do that --
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i svima nam je drago što to nije učinio --
08:44
he would have further discredited himself.
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samo bi se još više diskreditirao.
08:46
Freud had it right.
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Freud je bio u pravu.
08:48
Freud said, look, there's much more to it than speech:
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Freud je rekao, gle tu je puno više od govora:
08:51
"No mortal can keep a secret.
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“Nijedan smrtnik ne može čuvati tajnu.
08:54
If his lips are silent, he chatters with his fingertips."
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Ako su mu usne tihe, on čavrlja vrhovima prstiju.“
08:57
And we all do it no matter how powerful you are.
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I svi to radimo bez obzira na to koliko bili moćni.
09:00
We all chatter with our fingertips.
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Svi čavrljamo vrhovima prstiju.
09:02
I'm going to show you Dominique Strauss-Kahn with Obama
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Pokazat ću vam Dominique Strauss-Kahn s Obamom
09:05
who's chattering with his fingertips.
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koji čavrlja vrhovima prstiju.
09:08
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:11
Now this brings us to our next pattern,
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To nas dovodi do sljedećeg uzorka,
09:14
which is body language.
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a to je govor tijela.
09:17
With body language, here's what you've got to do.
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S govorom tijela, evo što morate učiniti.
09:20
You've really got to just throw your assumptions out the door.
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Zaista morate jednostavno odbaciti svoje pretpostavke.
09:23
Let the science temper your knowledge a little bit.
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Pustite znanost da malo pokvari vaše znanje.
09:25
Because we think liars fidget all the time.
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Jer mi mislimo da se lažljivci neprestano meškolje.
09:28
Well guess what, they're known to freeze their upper bodies when they're lying.
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Pogodite što? Oni znaju smrznuti gornji dio tijela kad lažu.
09:31
We think liars won't look you in the eyes.
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Mislimo da lažljivci neće gledati u oči.
09:34
Well guess what, they look you in the eyes a little too much
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Pogodite što? Gledaju vas u oči malo previše
09:36
just to compensate for that myth.
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kako bi kompenzirali taj mit.
09:38
We think warmth and smiles
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Mislimo da toplina i osmijeh
09:40
convey honesty, sincerity.
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znače poštenje, iskrenost.
09:42
But a trained liespotter
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Ali trenirani uočavatelj laži
09:44
can spot a fake smile a mile away.
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može prepoznati lažan osmijeh na kilometar.
09:46
Can you all spot the fake smile here?
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Možete li uočiti lažan osmijeh ovdje?
09:50
You can consciously contract
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Možete svjesno zgrčiti
09:52
the muscles in your cheeks.
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mišiće u obrazima.
09:55
But the real smile's in the eyes, the crow's feet of the eyes.
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Ali pravi je osmijeh u očima, naborima kože kraj vanjskih kutova oka.
09:58
They cannot be consciously contracted,
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Oni ne mogu biti svjesno pomaknuti,
10:00
especially if you overdid the Botox.
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posebno ako ste pretjerali s Botoxom.
10:02
Don't overdo the Botox; nobody will think you're honest.
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Nemojte pretjerati s Botoxom; nitko neće misliti da ste iskreni.
10:05
Now we're going to look at the hot spots.
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Sada ćemo pogledati aktivna mjesta.
10:07
Can you tell what's happening in a conversation?
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Možete li reći što se događa u razgovoru?
10:09
Can you start to find the hot spots
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Možete li početi tražiti aktivna mjesta
10:12
to see the discrepancies
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kako biste vidjeli razlike
10:14
between someone's words and someone's actions?
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između nečijih riječi i nečijih djela?
10:16
Now I know it seems really obvious,
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Znam da se to čini veoma očitim,
10:18
but when you're having a conversation
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ali kada razgovarate
10:20
with someone you suspect of deception,
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s nekim koga sumnjičite za obmanu,
10:23
attitude is by far the most overlooked but telling of indicators.
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držanje je daleko najčešće previđen, ali i najbolji indikator.
10:26
An honest person is going to be cooperative.
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Iskrena osoba će surađivati.
10:28
They're going to show they're on your side.
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Pokazat će da je na vašoj strani.
10:30
They're going to be enthusiastic.
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Bit će entuzijastična.
10:32
They're going to be willing and helpful to getting you to the truth.
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Željet će vam pomoći doći do istine.
10:34
They're going to be willing to brainstorm, name suspects,
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Bit će spremna s vama mozgati, imenovati sumnjivce,
10:37
provide details.
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ponudit će vam dokaze.
10:39
They're going to say, "Hey,
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Reći će: „Hej,
10:41
maybe it was those guys in payroll that forged those checks."
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Možda su oni tipovi što rade obračun plaća krivotvorili čekove.“
10:44
They're going to be infuriated if they sense they're wrongly accused
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Razbjesnit će se ako u tijeku intervjuiranja osjete da su pogrešno optuženi,
10:47
throughout the entire course of the interview, not just in flashes;
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i to ne samo na trenutke,
10:49
they'll be infuriated throughout the entire course of the interview.
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nego će biti razdražljivi tijekom čitavog postupka intervjuiranja.
10:52
And if you ask someone honest
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I ako pitate nekog iskrenog,
10:54
what should happen to whomever did forge those checks,
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što misle da bi se trebalo dogoditi osobi koja je uistinu krivotvorila čekove,
10:57
an honest person is much more likely
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iskrena osoba prije će
10:59
to recommend strict rather than lenient punishment.
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preporučiti strogu nego blažu kaznu.
11:03
Now let's say you're having that exact same conversation
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Pretpostavimo sada da vodite identičan razgovor
11:05
with someone deceptive.
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s osobom koja laže.
11:07
That person may be withdrawn,
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Moguće je da će ta osoba biti povučena,
11:09
look down, lower their voice,
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da će usmjeravati pogled prema dolje, tiho pričati,
11:11
pause, be kind of herky-jerky.
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zastati, nastojati biti nepredvidljiva.
11:13
Ask a deceptive person to tell their story,
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Upitate li takvu osobu da vam ispriča svoju priču,
11:15
they're going to pepper it with way too much detail
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oni će ju začiniti s previše detalja
11:18
in all kinds of irrelevant places.
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na bezbroj nebitnih mjesta.
11:21
And then they're going to tell their story in strict chronological order.
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I ispričati će vam priču strogo kronološkim redom.
11:24
And what a trained interrogator does
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Ono što će izvježbani ispitivač učiniti,
11:26
is they come in and in very subtle ways
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jest suptilno se vratiti,
11:28
over the course of several hours,
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i nakon nekoliko sati
11:30
they will ask that person to tell that story backwards,
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pitati osobu da im priču ispriča unatrag,
11:33
and then they'll watch them squirm,
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i tada će ih gledati kako se meškolje,
11:35
and track which questions produce the highest volume of deceptive tells.
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i pokušati uočiti koja pitanja proizvode najveći obujam lažnih informacija.
11:38
Why do they do that? Well we all do the same thing.
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Zašto to čine? Pa, svi mi radimo tu istu stvar.
11:41
We rehearse our words,
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Uvježbavamo svoje riječi,
11:43
but we rarely rehearse our gestures.
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ali rijetko uvježbavamo svoje geste.
11:45
We say "yes," we shake our heads "no."
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Kažemo „da“, klimamo glavom „ne“.
11:47
We tell very convincing stories, we slightly shrug our shoulders.
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Pričamo vrlo uvjerljive priče, lagano slegnemo ramena.
11:50
We commit terrible crimes,
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Činimo strašne zločine,
11:52
and we smile at the delight in getting away with it.
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i smješkajući se naslađujemo što smo se iz nečega izvukli.
11:55
Now that smile is known in the trade as "duping delight."
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Danas je taj smiješak poznat kao „podmukli smiješak“.
11:58
And we're going to see that in several videos moving forward,
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I to ćemo upravo vidjeti u nekoliko videa,
12:01
but we're going to start -- for those of you who don't know him,
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početi ćemo sa -- za one koji ga ne znaju,
12:03
this is presidential candidate John Edwards
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ovo je predsjednički kandidat John Edwards
12:06
who shocked America by fathering a child out of wedlock.
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koji je šokirao Ameriku svojim zakonski nepriznatim djetetom.
12:09
We're going to see him talk about getting a paternity test.
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Vidjeti ćemo kako govori o testiranju očinstva.
12:12
See now if you can spot him
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Pokušajte uočiti kako
12:14
saying, "yes" while shaking his head "no,"
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klima glavom „ne“ dok govori „da“,
12:16
slightly shrugging his shoulders.
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i lagano sliježe ramenima.
12:18
(Video) John Edwards: I'd be happy to participate in one.
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(Video) John Edwards: Drage ću volje sudjelovati.
12:20
I know that it's not possible that this child could be mine,
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Znam da nije moguće da je to dijete moje,
12:23
because of the timing of events.
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zbog vremenskih okolnosti.
12:25
So I know it's not possible.
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Tako da znam da to nije moguće.
12:27
Happy to take a paternity test,
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Rado ću se testirati na očinstvo
12:29
and would love to see it happen.
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i volio bi da do njega dođe.
12:31
Interviewer: Are you going to do that soon? Is there somebody --
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Ispitivač: Hoćete li test obaviti uskoro? Postoji li netko --
12:34
JE: Well, I'm only one side. I'm only one side of the test.
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JE.: Pa, ja sam samo jedna strana tog testa.
12:37
But I'm happy to participate in one.
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Ali rado ću sudjelovati u testiranju.
12:40
PM: Okay, those head shakes are much easier to spot
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PM.: Dobro, klimanje glavom je mnogo lakše uočiti
12:42
once you know to look for them.
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kada znate način na koji ih uočiti.
12:44
There're going to be times
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Katkada će biti situacija,
12:46
when someone makes one expression
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kada netko čini jednu ekspresiju
12:48
while masking another that just kind of leaks through in a flash.
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dok prikriva drugu koja samo ispliva negdje u trenutku.
12:52
Murderers are known to leak sadness.
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Ubojice su poznati po tome, što se tiče tuge.
12:54
Your new joint venture partner might shake your hand,
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Vaš novi partner u zajedničkom pothvatu, može vam prijateljski stisnuti ruku,
12:56
celebrate, go out to dinner with you
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slaviti, izlaziti na večere s vama,
12:58
and then leak an expression of anger.
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i odjednom iskazati ljutnju.
13:01
And we're not all going to become facial expression experts overnight here,
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Normalno da nećemo svi preko noći postati stručnjaci za detektiranje ljudskih facijalnih ekspresija,
13:04
but there's one I can teach you that's very dangerous, and it's easy to learn,
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ali postoji jedna koju vas mogu naučiti i koja je vrlo opasna, ali je laka za naučiti prepoznati,
13:07
and that's the expression of contempt.
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a to je prijezir.
13:10
Now with anger, you've got two people on an even playing field.
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Što se tiče ljutnje, sada imate dvije osobe na otvorenom terenu.
13:13
It's still somewhat of a healthy relationship.
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To je još donekle zdrav odnos.
13:15
But when anger turns to contempt,
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Ali kada se ljutnja pretvori u prijezir,
13:17
you've been dismissed.
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gotovo je.
13:19
It's associated with moral superiority.
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To je povezano s moralnom nadmoći.
13:21
And for that reason, it's very, very hard to recover from.
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I zbog tog razloga, vrlo, vrlo se teško od toga oporaviti.
13:24
Here's what it looks like.
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Evo kako to izgleda.
13:26
It's marked by one lip corner
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Obilježeno je uvučenim
13:28
pulled up and in.
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i podignutim kutom usne.
13:30
It's the only asymmetrical expression.
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To je jedina asimetrična ekspresija.
13:33
And in the presence of contempt,
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U prisutnosti prijezira,
13:35
whether or not deception follows --
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bilo praćeno obmanom ili ne --
13:37
and it doesn't always follow --
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a nije uvijek time praćeno --
13:39
look the other way, go the other direction,
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pogledajte i otiđite u drugom smjeru,
13:41
reconsider the deal,
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ponovno promislite o ideji,
13:43
say, "No thank you. I'm not coming up for just one more nightcap. Thank you."
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recite: „Ne hvala. Neću opet doći na još jedno piće prije spavanja. Hvala.“
13:47
Science has surfaced
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Znanost je na površinu iznijela
13:49
many, many more indicators.
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mnogo novih pokazatelja.
13:51
We know, for example,
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Znamo, na primjer
13:53
we know liars will shift their blink rate,
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da će lažljivci promijeniti brzinu treptaja oka,
13:55
point their feet towards an exit.
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da će usmjeriti noge prema izlazu.
13:57
They will take barrier objects
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Uzeti će nekakve predmete
13:59
and put them between themselves and the person that is interviewing them.
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koji će postaviti između sebe i ispitivača kako bi im poslužila kao nekakva vrsta barijere.
14:02
They'll alter their vocal tone,
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Promijeniti će ton glasa,
14:04
often making their vocal tone much lower.
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ponekad ga podosta povisiti.
14:07
Now here's the deal.
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Evo o čemu je riječ.
14:09
These behaviors are just behaviors.
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Takva su ponašanja jednostavno ponašanja.
14:12
They're not proof of deception.
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Nisu dokaz obmane.
14:14
They're red flags.
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Ona su crvene zastave.
14:16
We're human beings.
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Mi smo ljudska bića.
14:18
We make deceptive flailing gestures all over the place all day long.
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Činimo bespotrebne obmanjujuće geste čitav dan posvuda.
14:21
They don't mean anything in and of themselves.
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One ništa ne znače same po sebi.
14:23
But when you see clusters of them, that's your signal.
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Ali ukoliko ih uočite u nizovima, to je vaš znak.
14:26
Look, listen, probe, ask some hard questions,
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Gledajte, slušajte, ispitujte, postavljajte teška pitanja,
14:29
get out of that very comfortable mode of knowing,
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izađite iz ugodnog načina saznavanja,
14:32
walk into curiosity mode, ask more questions,
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prijeđite u znatiželjni oblik, postavljajte više pitanja,
14:35
have a little dignity, treat the person you're talking to with rapport.
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imajte više dostojanstva, tretirajte osobu s kojom razgovarate na prisan način.
14:38
Don't try to be like those folks on "Law & Order" and those other TV shows
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Nemojte biti kao one ekipe iz „Zakona i Reda“, i ostalih TV emisija
14:41
that pummel their subjects into submission.
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koje premlaćivanjem subjekte dovode do podčinjenosti.
14:43
Don't be too aggressive, it doesn't work.
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Nemojte biti previše agresivni, to neće upaliti.
14:46
Now we've talked a little bit
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Sada smo malo pričali
14:48
about how to talk to someone who's lying
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o tome kako razgovarati s nekim tko laže
14:50
and how to spot a lie.
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i kako uočiti laž.
14:52
And as I promised, we're now going to look at what the truth looks like.
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Kao što sam obećala, sada ćemo pogledati kako izgleda istina.
14:55
But I'm going to show you two videos,
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Pokazat ću vam dva videa,
14:57
two mothers -- one is lying, one is telling the truth.
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dvije majke -- jedna laže, jedna govori istinu.
15:00
And these were surfaced
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Otkrio ih je
15:02
by researcher David Matsumoto in California.
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istražitelj David Matsumoto u Kaliforniji.
15:04
And I think they're an excellent example
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Mislim da su izvrstan primjer
15:06
of what the truth looks like.
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kako izgleda istina.
15:08
This mother, Diane Downs,
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Ova majka, Diane Downs,
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shot her kids at close range,
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je pucala u svoju djecu s male udaljenosti,
15:12
drove them to the hospital
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vozila ih je u bolnicu
15:14
while they bled all over the car,
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dok su oni krvarili po cijelom autu,
15:16
claimed a scraggy-haired stranger did it.
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i tvrdila da je mršavi kosati stranac to učinio.
15:18
And you'll see when you see the video,
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I uočit ćete, kada pogledate video
15:20
she can't even pretend to be an agonizing mother.
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da se ona čak ne može ni praviti da je u agoniji.
15:22
What you want to look for here
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Ono što tu trebate potražiti
15:24
is an incredible discrepancy
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je nevjerojatna proturječnost
15:26
between horrific events that she describes
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između stravičnih događaja koje ona opisuje
15:28
and her very, very cool demeanor.
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i vrlo, vrlo hladnokrvnog ponašanja.
15:30
And if you look closely, you'll see duping delight throughout this video.
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I ako pogledate bolje vidjet ćete onaj podmukli smiješak u ovom videu.
15:33
(Video) Diane Downs: At night when I close my eyes,
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(Video) Diane Downs: Po noći kad zaklopim oči,
15:35
I can see Christie reaching her hand out to me while I'm driving,
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vidim kako Christi poseže rukom prema meni dok vozim,
15:38
and the blood just kept coming out of her mouth.
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a krv joj teče iz usta.
15:41
And that -- maybe it'll fade too with time --
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I to -- možda će i to izblijedjeti s vremenom --
15:43
but I don't think so.
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iako sumnjam.
15:45
That bothers me the most.
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To me najviše smeta.
15:55
PM: Now I'm going to show you a video
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PM.: Sada ću vam pokazati video
15:57
of an actual grieving mother, Erin Runnion,
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istinski ožalošćene majke, Erin Runnion,
15:59
confronting her daughter's murderer and torturer in court.
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u tijeku suočavanja s ubojicom svoje kćeri na sudu.
16:03
Here you're going to see no false emotion,
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Ovdje nećete vidjeti lažne emocije,
16:05
just the authentic expression of a mother's agony.
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već autentični izraz agonije ove majke.
16:08
(Video) Erin Runnion: I wrote this statement on the third anniversary
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(Video) Erin Runnion: Napisala sam ovu izjavu, na 3. godišnjicu
16:10
of the night you took my baby,
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noći kada si mi oduzeo moje dijete,
16:12
and you hurt her,
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kada si ju ozlijedio,
16:14
and you crushed her,
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slomio,
16:16
you terrified her until her heart stopped.
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prestravio toliko da joj je srce stalo.
16:20
And she fought, and I know she fought you.
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I ona se borila, znam da ti se opirala.
16:23
But I know she looked at you
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I znam da te gledala
16:25
with those amazing brown eyes,
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onim svojim predivnim smeđim očima,
16:27
and you still wanted to kill her.
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i ti si ju svejedno i dalje htio ubiti.
16:30
And I don't understand it,
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Ja to jednostavno ne razumijem,
16:32
and I never will.
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i nikada neću moći razumjeti.
16:35
PM: Okay, there's no doubting the veracity of those emotions.
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PM.: Dobro, nema sumnje u vjerodostojnost ovih emocija.
16:39
Now the technology around what the truth looks like
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U današnje vrijeme, tehnologija i znanost povezane s otkrivanjem istine
16:42
is progressing on, the science of it.
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napreduju.
16:45
We know for example
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Znamo da danas postoje npr.
16:47
that we now have specialized eye trackers and infrared brain scans,
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specijalizirani uređaji koji prate pokrete oka, i infracrvene snimke mozga,
16:50
MRI's that can decode the signals that our bodies send out
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magnetska rezonancija, koja može dešifrirati znakove koje naše tijelo odašilje
16:53
when we're trying to be deceptive.
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s namjenom da zavara.
16:55
And these technologies are going to be marketed to all of us
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Ta tehnologija će postati komercijalizirana, i dostupna svima nama
16:58
as panaceas for deceit,
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kao lijek za prijevaru,
17:00
and they will prove incredibly useful some day.
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i jednoga dana to će se pokazati iznimno korisnim.
17:03
But you've got to ask yourself in the meantime:
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Ali se u međuvremenu morate zapitati:
17:05
Who do you want on your side of the meeting,
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Koga želite na svojoj strani,
17:07
someone who's trained in getting to the truth
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nekoga tko je izvježban da dođe do istine
17:10
or some guy who's going to drag a 400-pound electroencephalogram
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ili nekog tipa koji će progurati EEG od 180kg
17:12
through the door?
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kroz vrata?
17:14
Liespotters rely on human tools.
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Osobe koje znaju uočavati laž, oslanjaju se na ljudska pomagala.
17:18
They know, as someone once said,
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Poznaju, kako je netko jednom rekao:
17:20
"Character's who you are in the dark."
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„Osobe koje postajete kada padne mrak.“
17:22
And what's kind of interesting
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I ono što je zanimljivo
17:24
is that today we have so little darkness.
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je to da smo danas okruženi s vrlo malo tame.
17:26
Our world is lit up 24 hours a day.
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Naš je svijet osvijetljen 24h na dan.
17:29
It's transparent
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I sve je postalo transparentno
17:31
with blogs and social networks
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preko blogova i društvenih mreža
17:33
broadcasting the buzz of a whole new generation of people
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koje prenose glas nove generacije ljudi
17:35
that have made a choice to live their lives in public.
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koji su donijeli odluku živjeti javni život.
17:38
It's a much more noisy world.
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Svijet je postao mnogo glasniji.
17:42
So one challenge we have
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I ono što moramo
17:44
is to remember,
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zapamtiti jest da
17:46
oversharing, that's not honesty.
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dijeljenje našeg života s javnošću ne znači biti iskren.
17:49
Our manic tweeting and texting
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Manijakalno „tweetanje“ i slanje poruka
17:51
can blind us to the fact
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nas može učiniti slijepima na činjenicu
17:53
that the subtleties of human decency -- character integrity --
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da ono što je doista bitno i što će uvijek biti bitno jest
17:56
that's still what matters, that's always what's going to matter.
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suptilnost ljudskog dostojanstva i integritet osobe.
17:59
So in this much noisier world,
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Stoga u ovom bučnijem svijetu
18:01
it might make sense for us
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moglo bi imati smisla
18:03
to be just a little bit more explicit
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biti izravniji
18:05
about our moral code.
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što se tiče našeg moralnog kodeksa.
18:08
When you combine the science of recognizing deception
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Kada spojite znanost prepoznavanja obmane
18:10
with the art of looking, listening,
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s umjetnošću promatranja, slušanja,
18:12
you exempt yourself from collaborating in a lie.
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oslobađate se surađivanja u toj obmani.
18:15
You start up that path
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Započinjete svoj put
18:17
of being just a little bit more explicit,
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postajući izravniji
18:19
because you signal to everyone around you,
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i tako svima dajete do znanja:
18:21
you say, "Hey, my world, our world,
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„Hej, moj svijet, naš svijet,
18:24
it's going to be an honest one.
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bit će iskreni svijet.
18:26
My world is going to be one where truth is strengthened
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Moj svijet će biti tamo gdje je istina najjača
18:28
and falsehood is recognized and marginalized."
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a neistinitost prepoznata i marginalizirana.“
18:31
And when you do that,
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I kada to napravite,
18:33
the ground around you starts to shift just a little bit.
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tlo pod vama počet će se pomalo mijenjati.
18:36
And that's the truth. Thank you.
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I to je istina. Hvala vam.
18:39
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Pamela Meyer - Lie detectorPamela Meyer thinks we’re facing a pandemic of deception, but she’s arming people with tools that can help take back the truth.
Why you should listen
Social media expert Pamela Meyer can tell when you’re lying. If it’s not your words that give you away, it’s your posture, eyes, breathing rate, fidgets, and a host of other indicators. Worse, we are all lied to up to 200 times a day, she says, from the white lies that allow society to function smoothly to the devastating duplicities that bring down corporations and break up families.
Working with a team of researchers over several years, Meyer, who is CEO of social networking company Simpatico Networks, collected and reviewed most of the research on deception that has been published, from such fields as law-enforcement, military, psychology and espionage. She then became an expert herself, receiving advanced training in deception detection, including multiple courses of advanced training in interrogation, microexpression analysis, statement analysis, behavior and body language interpretation, and emotion recognition. Her research is synthetized in her bestselling book Liespotting.
More profile about the speakerWorking with a team of researchers over several years, Meyer, who is CEO of social networking company Simpatico Networks, collected and reviewed most of the research on deception that has been published, from such fields as law-enforcement, military, psychology and espionage. She then became an expert herself, receiving advanced training in deception detection, including multiple courses of advanced training in interrogation, microexpression analysis, statement analysis, behavior and body language interpretation, and emotion recognition. Her research is synthetized in her bestselling book Liespotting.
Pamela Meyer | Speaker | TED.com