TED2015
Steven Wise: Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights
Stiven Vajz (Steven Wise): Šimpanze imaju osećanja i misli. Trebalo bi da imaju i prava
Filmed:
Readability: 4.3
1,115,996 views
Znate, šimpanze su isto ljudi. Okej, ne baš isto, ali advokat Stiven Vajz proveo je proteklih 30 godina radeći da promeni status ovih životinja od „predmeta“
do „osoba“. Nije to stvar pravne semantike; kao što on objašnjava u ovom sjajnom govoru, prepoznajući da životinje poput šimpanzi imaju izvanredne kognitivne sposobnosti i ponovno promišljanje o načinu na koji ih tretiramo, zakonski, je u najmanju ruku moralna obaveza.
Steven Wise - Animal rights lawyer
By challenging long-held legal notions of “personhood”, Steven Wise seeks to grant cognitively advanced animals access to a full spectrum of fundamental rights. Full bio
By challenging long-held legal notions of “personhood”, Steven Wise seeks to grant cognitively advanced animals access to a full spectrum of fundamental rights. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Voleo bih da pogledate ovu olovku.
00:12
I'd like to have you look at this pencil.
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To je predmet. Pravno gledano.
00:15
It's a thing. It's a legal thing.
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00:18
And so are books you might have
or the cars you own.
or the cars you own.
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Kao i knjige ili automobili koje imate.
00:22
They're all legal things.
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Sve su to, pravno gledano, predmeti.
00:24
The great apes that you'll see behind me,
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Veliki majmuni koje ćete videti iza mene,
00:27
they too are legal things.
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i oni su, pravno gledano, predmeti.
00:31
Now, I can do that to a legal thing.
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Tako ja predmetu mogu da uradim ovo.
00:35
I can do whatever I want
to my book or my car.
to my book or my car.
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Mogu da uradim šta god hoću
svojoj knjizi ili automobilu.
svojoj knjizi ili automobilu.
00:38
These great apes, you'll see.
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Videćete ove velike majmune.
00:41
The photographs are taken by a man
named James Mollison
named James Mollison
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Fotografisao ih je čovek
po imenu Džejms Molison,
po imenu Džejms Molison,
koji je napisao knjigu
„Džejms i ostali majmuni“.
„Džejms i ostali majmuni“.
00:45
who wrote a book called
"James & Other Apes."
"James & Other Apes."
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00:48
And he tells in his book
how every single one them,
how every single one them,
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On u toj svojoj knjizi kaže
kako je svaki među njima,
kako je svaki među njima,
00:51
almost every one of them, is an orphan
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gotovo svaki među njima, jedno siroče
00:53
who saw his mother and father
die before his eyes.
die before his eyes.
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kome su majka i otac pred očima umrli.
Oni su, pravno gledano, stvari.
00:58
They're legal things.
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Tako je vekovima postojao
ogromni pravni zid
ogromni pravni zid
00:59
So for centuries, there's been
a great legal wall
a great legal wall
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01:02
that separates legal things
from legal persons.
from legal persons.
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koji razdvaja predmete od osoba.
01:05
On one hand, legal things
are invisible to judges.
are invisible to judges.
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Sa jedne strane, predmeti
su nevidljivi sudijama.
su nevidljivi sudijama.
01:09
They don't count in law.
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Oni se ne računaju u zakonu.
01:11
They don't have any legal rights.
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Oni nemaju nikakva prava.
Oni nemaju ni kapacitet
za bilo kakva prava.
za bilo kakva prava.
01:13
They don't have
the capacity for legal rights.
the capacity for legal rights.
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Oni su robovi.
01:15
They are the slaves.
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Sa druge strane tog pravnog zida su osobe.
01:17
On the other side of that legal wall
are the legal persons.
are the legal persons.
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Osobe su veoma vidljive sudijama.
01:20
Legal persons are very visible to judges.
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01:23
They count in law.
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One se računaju u zakonu.
Mogu imati mnoga prava.
01:25
They may have many rights.
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One imaju kapacitet za bezbroj prava
01:27
They have the capacity
for an infinite number of rights.
for an infinite number of rights.
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01:30
And they're the masters.
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i one su gospodari.
01:33
Right now, all nonhuman animals
are legal things.
are legal things.
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Trenutno su sve neljudske životinje,
pravno gledano, predmeti.
pravno gledano, predmeti.
01:37
All human beings are legal persons.
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Sva ljudska bića su po zakonu osobe.
01:40
But being human and being a legal person
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Međutim, biti čovek i biti po zakonu osoba
01:43
has never been, and is not today,
synonymous with a legal person.
synonymous with a legal person.
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nikad nije bilo, niti je danas,
sinonim za osobu po zakonu.
sinonim za osobu po zakonu.
01:49
Humans and legal persons
are not synonymous.
are not synonymous.
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Ljudi i osobe po zakonu nisu sinonimi.
01:52
On the one side,
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Sa jedne strane,
01:55
there have been many human beings
over the centuries
over the centuries
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bilo je mnogo ljudskih bića tokom vekova
01:59
who have been legal things.
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koji su po zakonu bili predmeti.
02:01
Slaves were legal things.
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Robovi su po zakonu bili stvari.
02:02
Women, children,
were sometimes legal things.
were sometimes legal things.
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Žene i deca su ponekad bili stvari.
Zapravo, veliki deo borbe
za građanska prava kroz vekove
za građanska prava kroz vekove
02:07
Indeed, a great deal of civil rights
struggle over the last centuries
struggle over the last centuries
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02:11
has been to punch a hole
through that wall and begin to feed
through that wall and begin to feed
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bio je da probije rupu kroz taj zid
i počne da hrani
i počne da hrani
one ljudske stvari kroz taj zid
i da od njih napravi zakonski osobe.
i da od njih napravi zakonski osobe.
02:15
these human things through the wall
and have them become legal persons.
and have them become legal persons.
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02:20
But alas, that hole has closed up.
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Ali, avaj, ta rupa se zatvorila.
02:24
Now, on the other side are legal persons,
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Sa druge strane su, pravno gledano, osobe,
02:26
but they've never only been
limited to human beings.
limited to human beings.
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ali one nikad nisu bile ograničene
na ljudska bića.
na ljudska bića.
02:30
There are, for example, there are many
legal persons who are not even alive.
legal persons who are not even alive.
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Primera radi, postoje mnoge
osobe po zakonu koje čak nisu ni žive.
osobe po zakonu koje čak nisu ni žive.
02:34
In the United States,
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U Sjedinjenim Državama,
02:36
we're aware of the fact
that corporations are legal persons.
that corporations are legal persons.
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svesni smo činjenice
da su korporacije pravno gledano osobe.
da su korporacije pravno gledano osobe.
02:40
In pre-independence India,
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U Indiji pre nezavisnosti,
na sudu je važilo da je hinduistički idol
pravno gledano osoba,
pravno gledano osoba,
02:42
a court held that a Hindu idol
was a legal person,
was a legal person,
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02:45
that a mosque was a legal person.
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da je džamija pravno gledano osoba.
Godine 2000. indijski Vrhovni sud
02:47
In 2000, the Indian Supreme Court
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02:49
held that the holy books
of the Sikh religion was a legal person,
of the Sikh religion was a legal person,
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smatrao je da su svete knjige
religije sikizam pravno gledano osoba,
religije sikizam pravno gledano osoba,
02:53
and in 2012, just recently,
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a 2012. godine, znači nedavno,
02:55
there was a treaty between
the indigenous peoples of New Zealand
the indigenous peoples of New Zealand
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postignut je sporazum
između domorodaca Novog Zelanda i Krune,
između domorodaca Novog Zelanda i Krune,
02:59
and the crown, in which it was agreed
that a river was a legal person
that a river was a legal person
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u kome je zaključeno
da je reka pravno gledano osoba
da je reka pravno gledano osoba
03:02
who owned its own riverbed.
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koja poseduje sopstveno rečno korito.
E, sad, pročitao sam knjigu
Pitera Singera 1980. godine,
Pitera Singera 1980. godine,
03:05
Now, I read Peter Singer's book in 1980,
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03:08
when I had a full head
of lush, brown hair,
of lush, brown hair,
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kada sam imao bujnu smeđu kosu,
i zaista me je dirnula.
03:12
and indeed I was moved by it,
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03:15
because I had become a lawyer because
I wanted to speak for the voiceless,
I wanted to speak for the voiceless,
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Postao sam advokat jer sam hteo
da govorim u ime onih koji ćute,
da govorim u ime onih koji ćute,
da zaštitim nezaštićene,
03:18
defend the defenseless,
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a nikad nisam shvatio koliko je biliona
i milijardi nečovekolikih životinja
i milijardi nečovekolikih životinja
03:19
and I'd never realized how voiceless
and defenseless the trillions,
and defenseless the trillions,
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03:24
billions of nonhuman animals are.
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koje su bespomoćne i ne govore.
03:27
And I began to work
as an animal protection lawyer.
as an animal protection lawyer.
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Tako sam počeo da radim
kao zaštitnik prava životinja.
kao zaštitnik prava životinja.
03:30
And by 1985, I realized that I was trying
to accomplish something
to accomplish something
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Do 1985. godine shvatio sam
da sam pokušavao da postignem
da sam pokušavao da postignem
nešto što je bukvalno nemoguće,
03:35
that was literally impossible,
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03:37
the reason being that all of my clients,
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zato što su svi moji klijenti,
03:40
all the animals whose interests
I was trying to defend,
I was trying to defend,
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sve životinje čije sam interese
pokušavao da zaštitim,
pokušavao da zaštitim,
03:43
were legal things; they were invisible.
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bili predmeti; bili su nevidljivi.
03:46
It was not going to work, so I decided
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Nije funkcionisalo, pa sam odlučio
03:48
that the only thing that was going to work
was they had, at least some of them,
was they had, at least some of them,
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da ono što će jedino funkcionisati
biti da ih, bar neke od njih,
biti da ih, bar neke od njih,
03:52
had to also be moved through a hole
that we could open up again in that wall
that we could open up again in that wall
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provučemo kroz rupu
koju smo ponovo mogli otvoriti u tom zidu
koju smo ponovo mogli otvoriti u tom zidu
03:55
and begin feeding the appropriate
nonhuman animals through that hole
nonhuman animals through that hole
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i početi da hranimo odgovarajuće
nečovekolike životinje kroz tu rupu
nečovekolike životinje kroz tu rupu
03:59
onto the other side
of being legal persons.
of being legal persons.
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sa druge strane,
koji su pravno gledano osobe.
koji su pravno gledano osobe.
04:02
Now, at that time, there was
very little known about or spoken about
very little known about or spoken about
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U to vreme, bilo je vrlo malo
poznato i malo se govorilo
poznato i malo se govorilo
04:08
truly animal rights,
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istinski o životinjskim pravima,
04:10
about the idea of having legal personhood
or legal rights for a nonhuman animal,
or legal rights for a nonhuman animal,
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o ideji posedovanja zakonske ličnosti
ili prava za nečovekoliku životinju,
ili prava za nečovekoliku životinju,
04:15
and I knew it was going
to take a long time.
to take a long time.
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i znao sam da će za to
trebati dosta vremena.
trebati dosta vremena.
Tako, 1985. godine, shvatio sam
da će trebati oko 30 godina
da će trebati oko 30 godina
04:18
And so, in 1985, I figured that it
would take about 30 years
would take about 30 years
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04:21
before we'd be able to even begin
a strategic litigation,
a strategic litigation,
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pre nego što budemo mogli
i da započnemo stratešku parnicu,
i da započnemo stratešku parnicu,
04:24
long-term campaign, in order to be able
to punch another hole through that wall.
to punch another hole through that wall.
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dugoročnu kampanju, kako bismo mogli
da probušimo još jednu rupu u tom zidu.
da probušimo još jednu rupu u tom zidu.
04:30
It turned out that I was pessimistic,
that it only took 28.
that it only took 28.
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Ispalo je da sam bio pesimista;
trebalo je samo 28 godina.
trebalo je samo 28 godina.
Ono što smo morali da uradimo
kako bismo počeli nije bilo samo
kako bismo počeli nije bilo samo
04:38
So what we had to do in order
to begin was not only
to begin was not only
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04:45
to write law review articles
and teach classes, write books,
and teach classes, write books,
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da napišemo članke o predlozima zakona
i podučavamo, pišemo knjige,
i podučavamo, pišemo knjige,
04:49
but we had to then begin
to get down to the nuts and bolts
to get down to the nuts and bolts
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već smo morali da krenemo od Kulina bana
04:52
of how you litigate that kind of case.
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kako se parniči takva vrsta slučaja.
04:54
So one of the first things we needed to do
was figure out what a cause of action was,
was figure out what a cause of action was,
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Jedna od prvih stvari koju je trebalo
uraditi je shvatiti uzrok delovanja,
uraditi je shvatiti uzrok delovanja,
pravni uzrok delovanja.
04:58
a legal cause of action.
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A pravni uzrok delovanja
je pokretač koji advokati koriste
je pokretač koji advokati koriste
05:00
And a legal cause of action
is a vehicle that lawyers use
is a vehicle that lawyers use
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05:03
to put their arguments in front of courts.
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da svoje argumente stave pred sud.
05:08
It turns out there's
a very interesting case
a very interesting case
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Ispalo je da postoji vrlo zanimljiv slučaj
05:11
that had occurred almost 250 years ago
in London called Somerset vs. Stewart,
in London called Somerset vs. Stewart,
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koji se dogodio pre skoro 250 godina
u Londonu, „Somerset protiv Stjuarta“,
u Londonu, „Somerset protiv Stjuarta“,
05:16
whereby a black slave
had used the legal system
had used the legal system
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gde je rob crnac
morao da upotrebi pravni sistem
morao da upotrebi pravni sistem
05:19
and had moved from a legal thing
to a legal person.
to a legal person.
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i promenio svoj status predmeta
u status osobe.
u status osobe.
05:22
I was so interested in it that I
eventually wrote an entire book about it.
eventually wrote an entire book about it.
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To me je toliko zanimalo da sam na kraju
napisao čitavu knjigu o tome.
napisao čitavu knjigu o tome.
05:26
James Somerset was an eight-year-old boy
when he was kidnapped from West Africa.
when he was kidnapped from West Africa.
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Džejms Somerset bio je osmogodišnjak
kada je kidnapovan iz zapadne Afrike.
kada je kidnapovan iz zapadne Afrike.
05:31
He survived the Middle Passage,
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Preživeo je Srednji prelaz
i prodat je jednom škotskom biznismenu,
Čarlsu Stjuartu, u Virdžiniji.
Čarlsu Stjuartu, u Virdžiniji.
05:34
and he was sold to a Scottish businessman
named Charles Stewart in Virginia.
named Charles Stewart in Virginia.
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05:39
Now, 20 years later, Stewart
brought James Somerset to London,
brought James Somerset to London,
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Onda, 20 godina posle, Stjuart
je doveo Džejmsa Somerseta u London,
je doveo Džejmsa Somerseta u London,
05:44
and after he got there, James decided
he was going to escape.
he was going to escape.
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i nakon što je stigao tamo,
Džejms je odlučio da će pobeći.
Džejms je odlučio da će pobeći.
05:47
And so one of the first things he did
was to get himself baptized,
was to get himself baptized,
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Tako je jedna od prvih stvari
koju je uradio bila da se krsti,
koju je uradio bila da se krsti,
05:51
because he wanted to get
a set of godparents,
a set of godparents,
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zato što je želeo da dobije kumove,
05:53
because to an 18th-century slave,
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jer je rob u 18. veku znao
05:55
they knew that one of the major
responsibilities of godfathers
responsibilities of godfathers
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da je jedna od glavnih odgovornosti kumova
05:58
was to help you escape.
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da ti pomognu u bežanju.
06:00
And so in the fall of 1771,
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I tako je u jesen 1771. godine
Džejms Somerset imao
sukob sa Čarlsom Stjuartom.
sukob sa Čarlsom Stjuartom.
06:04
James Somerset had a confrontation
with Charles Stewart.
with Charles Stewart.
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06:07
We don't know exactly what happened,
but then James dropped out of sight.
but then James dropped out of sight.
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Ne znamo tačno šta se desilo,
ali je onda Džejms nestao bez traga.
ali je onda Džejms nestao bez traga.
Besni Čarls Stjuart je onda
unajmio ljude koji su hvatali robove
unajmio ljude koji su hvatali robove
06:12
An enraged Charles Stewart
then hired slave catchers
then hired slave catchers
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06:15
to canvass the city of London,
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da prevrnu London naopačke
da ga pronađu i,
ne da ga vrate Čarlsu Stjuartu,
ne da ga vrate Čarlsu Stjuartu,
06:17
find him, bring him
not back to Charles Stewart,
not back to Charles Stewart,
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06:20
but to a ship, the Ann and Mary,
that was floating in London Harbour,
that was floating in London Harbour,
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već na brod „Anu i Mariju“,
koji se nalazio u londonskoj luci,
koji se nalazio u londonskoj luci,
06:26
and he was chained to the deck,
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i bio je okovan lancima za palubu,
06:27
and the ship was to set sail for Jamaica
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a brod je trebalo da otplovi za Jamajku
06:29
where James was to be sold
in the slave markets
in the slave markets
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gde bi Džejms bio prodat
na pijacama za robove
na pijacama za robove
06:32
and be doomed to the three to five
years of life that a slave had
years of life that a slave had
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i bio osuđen na tri do pet
godina života kao rob
godina života kao rob
u žetvi šećerne trske na Jamajci.
06:36
harvesting sugar cane in Jamaica.
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Sad su Džejmsovi kumovi stupili na scenu.
06:39
Well now James' godparents
swung into action.
swung into action.
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06:42
They approached the most powerful judge,
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Došli su do najmoćnijeg sudije,
06:44
Lord Mansfield, who was chief judge
of the court of King's Bench,
of the court of King's Bench,
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lorda Mensfilda, glavnog sudije
u Kraljičinom sudu,
u Kraljičinom sudu,
06:48
and they demanded that he issue
a common law writ of habeus corpus
a common law writ of habeus corpus
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i zahtevali su od njega da izda
sudski nalog habeas korpus po opštem pravu
sudski nalog habeas korpus po opštem pravu
06:52
on behalf of James Somerset.
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na ime Džejmsa Somerseta.
06:53
Now, the common law is the kind of law
that English-speaking judges can make
that English-speaking judges can make
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E, sad, opšte pravo je vrsta zakona
koji sudije iz engleskog govornog područja
koji sudije iz engleskog govornog područja
06:57
when they're not cabined in
by statutes or constitutions,
by statutes or constitutions,
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mogu da primene kada ih
ne ograničavaju statuti ili ustavi,
ne ograničavaju statuti ili ustavi,
a sudski nalog habeas korpus
je Vrhovni sudski nalog.
je Vrhovni sudski nalog.
07:02
and a writ of habeus corpus
is called the Great Writ,
is called the Great Writ,
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07:04
capital G, capital W,
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sa velikim početnim slovom,
07:06
and it's meant to protect any of us
who are detained against our will.
who are detained against our will.
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a njegova uloga je da zaštiti svakoga
ko je zatočen protiv svoje volje.
ko je zatočen protiv svoje volje.
07:11
A writ of habeus corpus is issued.
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Sudski nalog habeas korpus se izdaje.
Onaj koji drži lice u zatočeništvu
je dužan da ga preda
je dužan da ga preda
07:13
The detainer is required
to bring the detainee in
to bring the detainee in
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07:15
and give a legally sufficient reason
for depriving him of his bodily liberty.
for depriving him of his bodily liberty.
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i sa dovoljno argumenata obrazloži
razlog oduzimanja slobode.
razlog oduzimanja slobode.
07:21
Well, Lord Mansfield had to make
a decision right off the bat,
a decision right off the bat,
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E, pa, lord Mensfild je morao
smesta da donese odluku,
smesta da donese odluku,
jer je Džejms Somerset
zakonski gledano predmet;
zakonski gledano predmet;
07:26
because if James Somerset
was a legal thing,
was a legal thing,
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07:29
he was not eligible
for a writ of habeus corpus,
for a writ of habeus corpus,
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na njega nije mogao da se
primeni habeas korpus,
primeni habeas korpus,
07:32
only if he could be a legal person.
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već jedino ako on pravno postane osoba.
Tako je lord Mensfild odlučio
da će pretpostaviti,
da će pretpostaviti,
07:34
So Lord Mansfield decided
that he would assume,
that he would assume,
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07:37
without deciding, that James Somerset
was indeed a legal person,
was indeed a legal person,
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bez odlučivanja, da je Džejms Somerset
zakonski gledano zapravo osoba,
zakonski gledano zapravo osoba,
i izdao je nalog habeas korpus,
07:41
and he issued the writ of habeus corpus,
and James's body was brought in
and James's body was brought in
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a Džejmsovo telo je vratio kapetan broda.
07:44
by the captain of the ship.
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07:46
There were a series of hearings
over the next six months.
over the next six months.
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Usledio je niz saslušanja
u narednih šest meseci.
u narednih šest meseci.
07:49
On June 22, 1772, Lord Mansfield
said that slavery was so odious,
said that slavery was so odious,
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Lord Mensfild je 22. juna 1772. godine
izjavio da je ropstvo toliko ogavno,
izjavio da je ropstvo toliko ogavno,
07:55
and he used the word "odious,"
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a upotrebio je reč „ogavno“,
07:56
that the common law would not support it,
and he ordered James free.
and he ordered James free.
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da ga opšte pravo neće podržati,
i proglasio je Džejmsa slobodnim.
i proglasio je Džejmsa slobodnim.
08:00
At that moment, James Somerset
underwent a legal transubstantiation.
underwent a legal transubstantiation.
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U tom trenutku, Džejms Somerset
podlegao je zakonskoj transsupstanciji.
podlegao je zakonskoj transsupstanciji.
08:04
The free man who walked
out of the courtroom
out of the courtroom
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Slobodan čovek koji je izašao iz sudnice
08:06
looked exactly like the slave
who had walked in,
who had walked in,
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izgledao je potpuno isto
kao rob koji je ušao,
kao rob koji je ušao,
08:09
but as far as the law was concerned,
they had nothing whatsoever in common.
they had nothing whatsoever in common.
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ali što se zakona tiče,
njih dvojica nisu imali ništa zajedničko.
njih dvojica nisu imali ništa zajedničko.
Sledeće što smo uradili
je projekat „Prava za ne-ljude“,
je projekat „Prava za ne-ljude“,
08:14
The next thing we did is that
the Nonhuman Rights Project,
the Nonhuman Rights Project,
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koji sam ja pokrenuo
08:17
which I founded, then began to look at
what kind of values and principles
what kind of values and principles
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i onda počeo da gledam kakve vrednosti
i principe želimo da izložimo sudijama.
i principe želimo da izložimo sudijama.
08:21
do we want to put before the judges?
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08:24
What values and principles
did they imbibe with their mother's milk,
did they imbibe with their mother's milk,
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Kojim vrednostima i principima
su oni zadojeni,
su oni zadojeni,
08:28
were they taught in law school,
do they use every day,
do they use every day,
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da li su išli na Pravni fakultet,
da li koriste svaki dan,
da li koriste svaki dan,
08:31
do they believe with all their hearts --
and we chose liberty and equality.
and we chose liberty and equality.
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da li svim srcem veruju -
i mi smo odabrali slobodu i jednakost.
i mi smo odabrali slobodu i jednakost.
08:34
Now, liberty right is the kind of right
to which you're entitled
to which you're entitled
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E, sad, pravo na slobodu
je vrsta prava koja vam je data
je vrsta prava koja vam je data
zbog toga što ste tako sačinjeni,
08:37
because of how you're put together,
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i osnovno pravo na slobodu
štiti osnovne interese.
štiti osnovne interese.
08:40
and a fundamental liberty right
protects a fundamental interest.
protects a fundamental interest.
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08:45
And the supreme interest in the common law
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3235
A najveći interes u opštem pravu
08:48
are the rights to autonomy
and self-determination.
and self-determination.
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su pravo na autonomiju i samoodlučivanje.
08:54
So they are so powerful that
in a common law country,
in a common law country,
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Oni su tako moćni da u državi
gde je na snazi opšte pravo,
gde je na snazi opšte pravo,
08:57
if you go to a hospital and you refuse
life-saving medical treatment,
life-saving medical treatment,
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ako odete u bolnicu i odbijete
medicinsku negu koja bi vam spasila život,
medicinsku negu koja bi vam spasila život,
09:02
a judge will not order it forced upon you,
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sudija neće naložiti da vas okrive,
09:04
because they will respect
your self-determination and your autonomy.
your self-determination and your autonomy.
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zato što će poštovati
vaše samoodlučivanje i autonomiju.
vaše samoodlučivanje i autonomiju.
09:09
Now, an equality right is the kind
of right to which you're entitled
of right to which you're entitled
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E, sad, pravo na jednakost
je vrsta prava koja vam je data
je vrsta prava koja vam je data
zato što ličite na nekog drugog
na određen način,
na određen način,
09:12
because you resemble someone else
in a relevant way,
in a relevant way,
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a tu je začkoljica, u određenom načinu.
09:15
and there's the rub, relevant way.
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1991
09:17
So if you are that, then because
they have the right, you're like them,
they have the right, you're like them,
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Tako da ako ste to, onda zato
što oni imaju pravo, vi ste poput njih,
što oni imaju pravo, vi ste poput njih,
09:21
you're entitled to the right.
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zagarantovano vam je pravo.
09:23
Now, courts and legislatures
draw lines all the time.
draw lines all the time.
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Sudovi i zakonodavstvo
podvlače crtu sve vreme.
podvlače crtu sve vreme.
09:26
Some are included, some are excluded.
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Neki se nađu iznad, neki ispod.
09:29
But you have to,
at the bare minimum you must --
at the bare minimum you must --
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Međutim, vi morate da,
makar minimum minimima, morate -
makar minimum minimima, morate -
09:35
that line has to be a reasonable means
to a legitimate end.
to a legitimate end.
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ta crta mora da bude razumno
sredstvo legitimnom cilju.
sredstvo legitimnom cilju.
09:39
The Nonhuman Rights Project
argues that drawing a line
argues that drawing a line
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Projekat „Prava za ne-ljude“
zalaže se da povlačenje te crte
zalaže se da povlačenje te crte
09:42
in order to enslave an autonomous
and self-determining being
and self-determining being
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da bi se zarobilo autonomno
i samoodlučujuće biće,
i samoodlučujuće biće,
poput ovog što vidite iza mene,
09:45
like you're seeing behind me,
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predstavlja ugrožavanje jednakosti.
09:47
that that's a violation of equality.
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Onda smo istraživali 80 jurisdikcija.
09:51
We then searched through 80 jurisdictions,
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09:53
it took us seven years,
to find the jurisdiction
to find the jurisdiction
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Trebalo nam je sedam godina
da nađemo jurisdikciju
da nađemo jurisdikciju
09:56
where we wanted to begin
filing our first suit.
filing our first suit.
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gde smo želeli da podnesemo prvu tužbu.
Izabrali smo državu Njujork.
09:58
We chose the state of New York.
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09:59
Then we decided upon
who our plaintiffs are going to be.
who our plaintiffs are going to be.
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Potom smo odlučili ko će nam biti tužioci.
Odlučili smo se za šimpanze,
10:02
We decided upon chimpanzees,
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10:04
not just because Jane Goodall
was on our board of directors,
was on our board of directors,
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ne samo zato što je Džejn Gudol
bila u našem odboru direktora,
bila u našem odboru direktora,
10:07
but because they, Jane and others,
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već zato što su oni, Džejn i ostali,
10:10
have studied chimpanzees
intensively for decades.
intensively for decades.
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intenzivno proučavali šimpanze decenijama.
10:13
We know the extraordinary
cognitive capabilities that they have,
cognitive capabilities that they have,
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Poznate su nam izvanredne
kognitivne sposobnosti koje imaju,
kognitivne sposobnosti koje imaju,
10:17
and they also resemble the kind
that human beings have.
that human beings have.
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a one takođe liče na one
koje imaju ljudska bića.
koje imaju ljudska bića.
10:20
And so we chose chimpanzees,
and we began to then canvass the world
and we began to then canvass the world
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Tako smo odabrali šimpanze
i počeli smo da tražimo širom sveta
i počeli smo da tražimo širom sveta
10:25
to find the experts
in chimpanzee cognition.
in chimpanzee cognition.
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kako bismo našli stručnjake
za kogniciju kod šimpanzi.
za kogniciju kod šimpanzi.
10:28
We found them in Japan, Sweden, Germany,
Scotland, England and the United States,
Scotland, England and the United States,
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Našli smo ih u Japanu, Švedskoj,
Nemačkoj, Škotskoj, Engleskoj i SAD-u,
Nemačkoj, Škotskoj, Engleskoj i SAD-u,
10:32
and amongst them, they wrote
100 pages of affidavits
100 pages of affidavits
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a oni su napisali 100 strana iskaza
10:35
in which they set out more than 40 ways
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u kojima su na više od 40 načina izneli
10:38
in which their complex
cognitive capability,
cognitive capability,
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kako su njihove kompleksne
kognitivne sposobnosti,
kognitivne sposobnosti,
10:41
either individually or together,
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bilo individualno ili zajedno,
10:43
all added up to autonomy
and self-determination.
and self-determination.
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sve pripisane autonomiji
i samoodlučivanju.
i samoodlučivanju.
Uzevši ovo u obzir, primera radi,
one su svesne,
one su svesne,
10:47
Now, these included, for example,
that they were conscious.
that they were conscious.
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10:50
But they're also conscious
that they're conscious.
that they're conscious.
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ali su one, takođe, svesne da su svesne.
One znaju da imaju um.
One znaju da drugi imaju um.
One znaju da drugi imaju um.
10:53
They know they have a mind.
They know that others have minds.
They know that others have minds.
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One znaju da su individue
i da mogu da žive.
i da mogu da žive.
10:56
They know they're individuals,
and that they can live.
and that they can live.
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Razumeju da su živele juče
i da će živeti sutra.
i da će živeti sutra.
10:58
They understand that they lived yesterday
and they will live tomorrow.
and they will live tomorrow.
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Mogu mentalno da putuju kroz vreme.
Pamte šta je bilo juče.
Pamte šta je bilo juče.
11:01
They engage in mental time travel.
They remember what happened yesterday.
They remember what happened yesterday.
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One mogu predvideti sutra,
11:05
They can anticipate tomorrow,
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11:06
which is why it's so terrible to imprison
a chimpanzee, especially alone.
a chimpanzee, especially alone.
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zbog čega je tako strašno
zatočiti šimpanzu, pogotovu samu.
zatočiti šimpanzu, pogotovu samu.
11:11
It's the thing that we do
to our worst criminals,
to our worst criminals,
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To je nešto što radimo
najgorim kriminalcima,
najgorim kriminalcima,
a to radimo i šimpanzama,
a čak i ne razmišljamo o tome.
a čak i ne razmišljamo o tome.
11:14
and we do that to chimpanzees
without even thinking about it.
without even thinking about it.
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11:19
They have some kind of moral capacity.
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One imaju neku vrstu moralnog kapaciteta.
11:22
When they play economic games
with human beings,
with human beings,
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Kada se igraju ekonomskih igara
sa ljudskim bićima,
sa ljudskim bićima,
one spontano prave fer ponude,
iako se to od njih ne zahteva.
iako se to od njih ne zahteva.
11:25
they'll spontaneously make fair offers,
even when they're not required to do so.
even when they're not required to do so.
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One znaju brojeve. One razumeju brojeve.
11:29
They are numerate.
They understand numbers.
They understand numbers.
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11:31
They can do some simple math.
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One rade prostu matematiku.
11:32
They can engage in language --
or to stay out of the language wars,
or to stay out of the language wars,
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One se uključuju u jezik
ili ostaju izvan jezičkih ratova,
ili ostaju izvan jezičkih ratova,
11:36
they're involved in intentional
and referential communication
and referential communication
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uključuju se u namernu
i referentnu komunikaciju
i referentnu komunikaciju
11:40
in which they pay attention
to the attitudes of those
to the attitudes of those
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u kojoj obraćaju pažnju
na stavove onih sa kojima razgovaraju.
na stavove onih sa kojima razgovaraju.
11:42
with whom they are speaking.
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One imaju kulturu.
11:44
They have culture.
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1458
One imaju materijalnu kulturu,
socijalnu kulturu.
socijalnu kulturu.
11:45
They have a material culture,
a social culture.
a social culture.
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2601
11:48
They have a symbolic culture.
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2415
Imaju kulturu simbola.
11:50
Scientists in the Taï Forests
in the Ivory Coast
in the Ivory Coast
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Naučnici u šumama Tai na Obali Slonovače
11:54
found chimpanzees who were using
these rocks to smash open
these rocks to smash open
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pronašli su šimpanze
koje su koristile kamen
koje su koristile kamen
kako bi razbile
neverovatno tvrdu opnu oraha.
neverovatno tvrdu opnu oraha.
11:58
the incredibly hard hulls of nuts.
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12:01
It takes a long time
to learn how to do that,
to learn how to do that,
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Potrebno je mnogo vremena da se to nauči,
a oni su istraživali ovu oblast
12:03
and they excavated the area
and they found
and they found
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i otkrili da je ova materijalna kultura,
da je ovakvo ponašanje,
da je ovakvo ponašanje,
12:05
that this material culture,
this way of doing it,
this way of doing it,
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12:08
these rocks, had passed down
for at least 4,300 years
for at least 4,300 years
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3343
ovo kamenje, prelazilo sa generacije
na generaciju najmanje 4 300 godina
na generaciju najmanje 4 300 godina
12:11
through 225 chimpanzee generations.
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kroz 225 generacija šimpanzi.
12:16
So now we needed to find our chimpanzee.
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Sad je trebalo da pronađemo naše šimpanze.
12:19
Our chimpanzee,
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3180
Naše šimpanze -
prvo smo dve pronašli u državi Njujork.
12:22
first we found two of them
in the state of New York.
in the state of New York.
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Obe će uginuti čak i pre nego
što smo uspeli da podnesemo tužbu.
što smo uspeli da podnesemo tužbu.
12:25
Both of them would die before
we could even get our suits filed.
we could even get our suits filed.
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3204
12:28
Then we found Tommy.
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1881
Onda smo našli Tomija.
12:30
Tommy is a chimpanzee.
You see him behind me.
You see him behind me.
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3112
Tomi je šimpanza. Vidite ga iza mene.
12:33
Tommy was a chimpanzee.
We found him in that cage.
We found him in that cage.
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Tomi je bio šimpanza.
Pronašli smo ga u tom kavezu.
Pronašli smo ga u tom kavezu.
12:35
We found him in a small room
that was filled with cages
that was filled with cages
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Našli smo ga u maloj prostoriji
koja je bila puna kaveza
koja je bila puna kaveza
12:39
in a larger warehouse structure on a used
trailer lot in central New York.
trailer lot in central New York.
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5186
u velikom skladištu na parkingu
za prikolice u centralnom Njujorku.
za prikolice u centralnom Njujorku.
12:44
We found Kiko, who is partially deaf.
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2174
Pronašli smo Kiko, koja je nagluva.
12:46
Kiko was in the back of a cement
storefront in western Massachusetts.
storefront in western Massachusetts.
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5642
Kiko je bila u zadnjem delu
betonske zgrade u zapadnom Masačusetsu.
betonske zgrade u zapadnom Masačusetsu.
12:52
And we found Hercules and Leo.
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Pronašli smo i Herkula i Lea.
12:54
They're two young male chimpanzees
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Oni su dva mlada mužjaka šimpanze.
12:55
who are being used for biomedical,
anatomical research at Stony Brook.
anatomical research at Stony Brook.
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Koriste se za biomedicinska,
anatomska istraživanja na Stouni Bruku.
anatomska istraživanja na Stouni Bruku.
Pronašli smo ih.
12:59
We found them.
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I tako, poslednje nedelje
decembra 2013. godine,
decembra 2013. godine,
13:00
And so on the last week of December 2013,
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2712
Projekat „Prava za ne-ljude“
podneo je tri tužbe širom države Njujork
podneo je tri tužbe širom države Njujork
13:03
the Nonhuman Rights Project filed three
suits all across the state of New York
suits all across the state of New York
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3940
13:07
using the same common law
writ of habeus corpus argument
writ of habeus corpus argument
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koristeći isti sudski nalog
habeas korpus opšteg prava
habeas korpus opšteg prava
13:10
that had been used with James Somerset,
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korišćen u slučaju Džejmsa Somerseta.
Tražili smo da sudije izdaju
tri naloga habeas korpus opšteg prava.
tri naloga habeas korpus opšteg prava.
13:13
and we demanded that the judges issue
these common law writs of habeus corpus.
these common law writs of habeus corpus.
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13:18
We wanted the chimpanzees out,
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Želeli smo da oslobodimo šimpanze,
13:20
and we wanted them brought
to Save the Chimps,
to Save the Chimps,
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i želeli smo da ih dovedemo
u „Spasimo šimpanze“,
u „Spasimo šimpanze“,
13:23
a tremendous chimpanzee
sanctuary in South Florida
sanctuary in South Florida
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sjajno utočište za šimpanze
u južnoj Floridi,
u južnoj Floridi,
13:27
which involves an artificial lake
with 12 or 13 islands --
with 12 or 13 islands --
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u kome postoji veštačko jezero
sa 12 ili 13 ostrva -
sa 12 ili 13 ostrva -
13:32
there are two or three acres
where two dozen chimpanzees live
where two dozen chimpanzees live
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imaju dva ili tri ara gde 24 šimpanze žive
13:35
on each of them.
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na svakom od njih.
I ove šimpanze bi onda
živele život šimpanzi,
živele život šimpanzi,
13:36
And these chimpanzees would then live
the life of a chimpanzee,
the life of a chimpanzee,
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sa drugim šimpanzama u okruženju
koje je maksimalno nalik Africi.
koje je maksimalno nalik Africi.
13:39
with other chimpanzees in an environment
that was as close to Africa as possible.
that was as close to Africa as possible.
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13:43
Now, all these cases are still going on.
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Svi ovi slučajevi su i dalje u toku.
13:48
We have not yet run into
our Lord Mansfield.
our Lord Mansfield.
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Još nismo naišli
na našeg lorda Mensfilda.
na našeg lorda Mensfilda.
Ali hoćemo. Hoćemo.
13:52
We shall. We shall.
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Ovo je dugoročna strateška
parnička kampanja. I hoćemo.
parnička kampanja. I hoćemo.
13:54
This is a long-term strategic
litigation campaign. We shall.
litigation campaign. We shall.
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13:58
And to quote Winston Churchill,
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Da citiram Vinstona Čerčila,
14:00
the way we view our cases
is that they're not the end,
is that they're not the end,
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način na koji gledamo na naše slučajeve
je da oni nisu kraj,
je da oni nisu kraj,
14:04
they're not even the beginning of the end,
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oni nisu čak ni početak kraja,
14:06
but they are perhaps
the end of the beginning.
the end of the beginning.
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ali su zato možda kraj početka.
14:10
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
(Aplauz)
14:12
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Steven Wise - Animal rights lawyerBy challenging long-held legal notions of “personhood”, Steven Wise seeks to grant cognitively advanced animals access to a full spectrum of fundamental rights.
Why you should listen
Using a long-term litigation campaign based on existing habeas corpus law, Steven Wise and the Nonhuman Rights Project are redefining the playing field for animal rights law. While the high-profile New York lawsuits Wise has initiated on behalf of captive chimpanzees have yet to bear fruit, they’re only the first stage of a strategy that is changing the conversation about animal rights.
Wise’s work with the Nonhuman Rights Project is the subject of Unlocking the Cage, a forthcoming film by Chris Hegedus and D.A. Pennebaker.
Steven Wise | Speaker | TED.com