We the Future
Özlem Cekic: Why I have coffee with people who send me hate mail
歐茲蘭賽奇克: 為什麼要和寫攻擊性信件給我的人喝咖啡
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Readability: 3.4
1,841,276 views
從 2007 年起，歐茲蘭賽奇克的電子郵件收件匣中就滿滿都是攻擊性信件，因為2007 年她在丹麥國會中贏得了一席——成為第一位女性穆斯林成員。一開始，她只是把信件刪除，認為那是狂熱者做的事，不理會。直到有一天，有位朋友給了她沒預期的建議：去接觸寫攻擊性信件的人，邀請他們見面喝杯咖啡。在經過了數百場「對話咖啡」會面之後，賽奇克分享了為什麼若要解除仇恨，面對面的交談會是最強大的工具——並挑戰大家，去和自己不認同的人互動。
Özlem Cekic - Bridge builder, author
Born in Turkey with Kurdish roots, Özlem Sara Cekic was one of the first women with a Muslim immigrant background to be elected to the Danish Parliament, where she served from 2007 to 2015. Full bio
Born in Turkey with Kurdish roots, Özlem Sara Cekic was one of the first women with a Muslim immigrant background to be elected to the Danish Parliament, where she served from 2007 to 2015. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
My inbox is full of hate mails
and personal abuse
and personal abuse
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我的收件匣中滿滿都是
攻擊性信件以及個人辱罵，
攻擊性信件以及個人辱罵，
00:17
and has been for years.
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且已經持續數年。
00:20
In 2010, I started answering those mails
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2010 年，我開始回覆那些信件，
00:24
and suggesting to the writer
that we might meet for coffee and a chat.
that we might meet for coffee and a chat.
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向信件作者提議
見面喝杯咖啡聊聊天。
見面喝杯咖啡聊聊天。
00:30
I have had hundreds of encounters.
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我已經有了數百次的相會。
00:33
They have taught me something important
that I want to share with you.
that I want to share with you.
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他們教了我很重要的東西，
今天我要來跟大家分享。
今天我要來跟大家分享。
00:39
I was born in Turkey from Kurdish parents
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我生在土耳其，父母是庫德人，
00:42
and we moved to Denmark
when I was a young child.
when I was a young child.
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在我還小的時候，我們就搬到丹麥了。
00:46
In 2007, I ran for a seat
in the Danish parliament
in the Danish parliament
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2007 年，我去競選
丹麥國會的一席，
丹麥國會的一席，
00:50
as one of the first women
with a minority background.
with a minority background.
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我是第一個少數族群
背景的女性候選人。
背景的女性候選人。
00:54
I was elected,
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我當選了，
00:55
but I soon found out
that not everyone was happy about it
that not everyone was happy about it
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但我很快就發現，
並非人人都對這件事感到高興，
並非人人都對這件事感到高興，
00:59
as I had to quickly get used
to finding hate messages in my inbox.
to finding hate messages in my inbox.
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我得要很快適應在我的
收件匣中找到攻擊性信件。
收件匣中找到攻擊性信件。
01:06
Those emails would begin
with something like this:
with something like this:
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那些信件的開頭可能是這樣的：
01:10
"What's a raghead like you
doing in our parliament?"
doing in our parliament?"
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「你這種用破布裏頭的人
在我們的國會裡幹什麼？」
在我們的國會裡幹什麼？」
01:15
I never answered.
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我從來沒有回應。
01:16
I'd just delete the emails.
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我只會把信件刪除。
01:18
I just thought that the senders
and I had nothing in common.
and I had nothing in common.
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我只是認為，
寄件者和我完全沒有交集。
寄件者和我完全沒有交集。
01:23
They didn't understand me,
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他們不了解我，
01:25
and I didn't understand them.
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我不了解他們。
01:29
Then one day, one of my colleagues
in the parliament said
in the parliament said
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接著，有一天，
我的一位國會同事說，
我的一位國會同事說，
01:33
that I should save the hate mails.
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我應該要把攻擊性信件保存起來。
01:36
"When something happens to you,
it will give the police a lead."
it will give the police a lead."
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「當你發生了什麼事，
警方就能有線索。」
警方就能有線索。」
01:40
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:41
I noticed that she said,
"When something happens" and not "if."
"When something happens" and not "if."
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我注意到她說「『當』你
發生了什麼事」而非「如果」。
發生了什麼事」而非「如果」。
01:46
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:48
Sometimes hateful letters
were also sent to my home address.
were also sent to my home address.
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有時，攻擊性信件也會
寄到我家的地址。
寄到我家的地址。
01:53
The more I became involved
in public debate,
in public debate,
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我涉入越多公開辯論，
01:57
the more hate mail and threats I received.
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我就會收到越多攻擊性信件及威脅。
02:01
After a while, I got a secret address
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一陣子之後，
我弄了一個秘密地址，
我弄了一個秘密地址，
02:03
and I had to take extra precautions
to protect my family.
to protect my family.
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且我得要做額外的預防，
來保護我的家人。
來保護我的家人。
02:09
Then in 2010, a Nazi began to harass me.
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接著，2010 年，
一個納粹開始騷擾我。
一個納粹開始騷擾我。
02:13
It was a man who had attacked
Muslim women on the street.
Muslim women on the street.
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這個人曾經在街上攻擊穆斯林女性。
02:18
Over time, it became much worse.
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隨時間過去，狀況越來越糟。
02:22
I was at the zoo with my children,
and the phone was ringing constantly.
and the phone was ringing constantly.
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我帶孩子去動物園時，
電話響個不停。
電話響個不停。
02:28
It was the Nazi.
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是那個納粹打的。
02:30
I had the impression that he was close.
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我覺得他就在附近。
02:33
We headed home.
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我們啟程回家。
02:35
When we got back,
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當我們回去後，
02:37
my son asked, "Why does
he hate you so much, Mom,
he hate you so much, Mom,
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我兒子問：
「媽，他為什麼這麼恨你？
02:43
when he doesn't even know you?"
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他甚至不認識你？」
02:47
"Some people are just stupid," I said.
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我說：「有些人就是很蠢。」
02:50
And at the time, I actually thought
that was a pretty clever answer.
that was a pretty clever answer.
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那時，我還心想
那是個很聰明的回答。
那是個很聰明的回答。
02:55
And I suspect that that is the answer
most of us would give.
most of us would give.
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我猜，那也是大部分人會給的答案。
02:59
The others --
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其他人——
03:01
they are stupid, brainwashed, ignorant.
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他們很蠢、被洗腦了、很無知。
03:05
We are the good guys
and they are the bad guys, period.
and they are the bad guys, period.
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我們是好人，他們是壞人，
就這麼簡單。
就這麼簡單。
03:11
Several weeks later
I was at a friend's house,
I was at a friend's house,
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幾週後，我在一位朋友家中，
03:13
and I was very upset and angry
about all the hate and racism I had met.
about all the hate and racism I had met.
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我非常沮喪且生氣，
抱怨我所遇到的
所有仇恨和種族主義。
所有仇恨和種族主義。
03:20
It was he who suggested
that I should call them up
that I should call them up
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是那位朋友建議我應該
打電話給他們，並拜訪他們。
打電話給他們，並拜訪他們。
03:23
and visit them.
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03:26
"They will kill me," I said.
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我說：「他們會殺了我。」
03:29
"They would never attack a member
of the Danish Parliament," he said.
of the Danish Parliament," he said.
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他說：「他們絕對不會
攻擊丹麥國會成員的。」
攻擊丹麥國會成員的。」
03:33
"And anyway, if they killed you,
you would become a martyr."
you would become a martyr."
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「而且就算他們殺了你，
你也會變成烈士。」
你也會變成烈士。」
03:37
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:39
"So it's pure win-win situation for you."
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「所以，對你來說，
是怎樣都贏的局面。」
是怎樣都贏的局面。」
03:41
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:45
His advice was so unexpected,
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我完全沒料到他會這樣建議，
03:48
when I got home,
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我回家後，打開我的電腦，
03:49
I turned on my computer
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03:51
and opened the folder
where I had saved all the hate mail.
where I had saved all the hate mail.
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開啟了我儲存所有
攻擊性信件的資料夾，
攻擊性信件的資料夾，
03:55
There were literally hundreds of them.
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真的有數百封信在裡面。
03:58
Emails that started
with words like "terrorist,"
with words like "terrorist,"
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電子郵件的開頭包括有
「恐怖分子」、
「用破布裏頭的人」、
「用破布裏頭的人」、
04:03
"raghead,"
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04:04
"rat," "whore."
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「鼠輩」、「妓女」。
04:08
I decided to contact the one
who had sent me the most.
who had sent me the most.
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我決定要和寄最多信
給我的那個人聯絡。
給我的那個人聯絡。
04:12
His name was Ingolf.
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他的名字叫英格夫。
04:17
I decided to contact him just once
so I could say at least I had tried.
so I could say at least I had tried.
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我決定只要聯絡他一次，
這樣我就可以說至少我試過了。
04:23
To my surprise and shock,
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讓我很意外和驚訝的是，
他接起了電話。
他接起了電話。
04:26
he answered the phone.
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04:28
I blurted out, "Hello, my name is Özlem.
You have sent me so many hate mails.
You have sent me so many hate mails.
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我脫口：「哈囉，我是歐茲蘭。
你寄了好多攻擊性信件給我。
你寄了好多攻擊性信件給我。
04:33
You don't know me, I don't know you.
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你不認識我，我不認識你。
我在想，我能不能過去，
我在想，我能不能過去，
04:35
I was wondering if I could come around
and we can drink a coffee together
and we can drink a coffee together
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跟你喝杯咖啡，談談這件事？」
04:39
and talk about it?"
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（笑聲）
04:40
(Laughter)
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04:43
There was silence on the line.
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電話上是一段沉默。
04:47
And then he said,
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接著，他說：
04:50
"I have to ask my wife."
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「我得問一下我太太。」
04:52
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:53
What?
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什麼？這個種族主義者有太太？
04:54
The racist has a wife?
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04:56
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:58
A couple of days later,
we met at his house.
we met at his house.
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幾天後，我們在他家見面。
05:01
I will never forget
when he opened his front door
when he opened his front door
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我永遠不會忘記，
當他打開他的前門，
當他打開他的前門，
05:05
and reached out to shake my hand.
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伸出手和我握手的那一刻。
05:08
I felt so disappointed.
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我感到好失望。
05:10
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:12
because he looked
nothing like I'd imagined.
nothing like I'd imagined.
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因為他完全不是我想像的那樣子。
05:16
I had expected a horrible person --
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我預期他會是個很糟糕的人——
05:19
dirty, messy house.
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骯髒、零亂的房子。
05:21
It was not.
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並非如此。
05:23
His house smelled of coffee
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他的房子有咖啡香，
05:25
which was served from a coffee set
identical to the one my parents used.
identical to the one my parents used.
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咖啡香來自他泡咖啡的那組用具，
且跟我父母用的是同一款。
且跟我父母用的是同一款。
05:30
I ended up staying
for two and a half hours.
for two and a half hours.
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結果，我在那裡待了兩個半小時。
05:34
And we had so many things in common.
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我們有好多共通點。
05:39
Even our prejudices were alike.
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就連我們的偏見都很相近。
05:41
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:43
Ingolf told me
that when he waits for the bus
that when he waits for the bus
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英格夫告訴我，當他在等公車時，
05:46
and the bus stops 10 meters away from him,
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公車在離他十公尺的地方停下來，
05:50
it was because the driver was a "raghead."
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原因是因為司機是
「用破布裏頭的人」。
「用破布裏頭的人」。
05:55
I recognized that feeling.
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我認得這種感覺。
05:57
When I was young
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我年輕時，
05:59
and I waited for the bus
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我在等公車時，
它停在離我十公尺的地方。
它停在離我十公尺的地方。
06:01
and it stopped 10 meters away from me,
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06:03
I was sure that the driver was a racist.
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我很確定那司機是種族主義者。
06:09
When I got home,
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當我回到家，
06:11
I was very ambivalent about my experience.
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我對我的經歷感到十分矛盾。
06:15
On the one hand, I really liked Ingolf.
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一方面，我真的很喜歡英格夫。
06:18
He was easy and pleasant to talk to,
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跟他說話很自在愉快，
06:23
but on the other hand,
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但另一方面，
06:25
I couldn't stand the idea
of having so much in common
of having so much in common
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我無法忍受想到和我
有如此多共通點的人，
有如此多共通點的人，
06:29
with someone who had
such clearly racist views.
such clearly racist views.
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卻也是個有這麼明顯
種族主義觀點的人。
種族主義觀點的人。
06:36
Gradually,
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漸漸地，且痛苦地，
06:37
and painfully,
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06:39
I came to realize
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我開始了解到，
06:40
that I had been just as judgmental
of those who had sent me hate mails
of those who had sent me hate mails
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我其實也在評斷那些
寄攻擊性信件給我的人，
寄攻擊性信件給我的人，
06:46
as they had been of me.
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就如同他們在評斷我一樣。
06:50
This was the beginning
of what I call #dialoguecoffee.
of what I call #dialoguecoffee.
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這件事開始了我所稱的
「#對話咖啡」。
06:56
Basically, I sit down for coffee
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基本上，我會和曾經對我說過
06:59
with people who have said
the most terrible things to me
the most terrible things to me
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最惡劣的話的人坐下來喝杯咖啡，
07:02
to try to understand
why they hate people like me
why they hate people like me
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試圖了解為什麼他們
會恨像我這樣的人，
會恨像我這樣的人，
07:06
when they don't even know me.
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即使他們根本不認識我。
07:10
I have been doing this
the last eight years.
the last eight years.
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我過去八年都一直在做這件事。
07:14
The vast majority of people
I approach agree to meet me.
I approach agree to meet me.
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我試圖聯絡的人，
絕大多數都同意跟我見面。
絕大多數都同意跟我見面。
07:18
Most of them are men,
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大部分是男性，
但我也曾經見過女性。
但我也曾經見過女性。
07:19
but I have also met women.
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07:22
I have made it a rule
to always meet them in their house
to always meet them in their house
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我訂下了一條規則，
都要在他們的家中和他們見面，
都要在他們的家中和他們見面，
07:25
to convey from the outset
that I trust them.
that I trust them.
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從一開端就傳達出我對他們的信任。
07:28
I always bring food
because when we eat together,
because when we eat together,
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我總會帶食物，
因為當我們一起吃時，
因為當我們一起吃時，
07:32
it is easier to find
what we have in common
what we have in common
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就比較容易找到我們的共通點，
07:35
and make peace together.
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並一起言歸於好。
07:38
Along the way, I have learned
some valuable lessons.
some valuable lessons.
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一路上，我學到了一些寶貴的經驗。
07:42
The people who sent
hate mails are workers,
hate mails are workers,
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寄攻擊性信件給我的人是勞工、
07:46
husbands, wives,
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丈夫、妻子、
07:48
parents like you and me.
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父母，跟你我沒兩樣。
07:50
I'm not saying that
their behavior is acceptable,
their behavior is acceptable,
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我並不是說他們的
行為是可以接受的，
行為是可以接受的，
07:54
but I have learned to distance myself
from the hateful views
from the hateful views
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但我已經學會了讓我自己遠離仇恨的看法，
卻不讓自己遠離表述那些看法的人。
07:59
without distancing myself from the person
who's expressing those views.
who's expressing those views.
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08:07
And I have discovered
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我發現，
08:09
that the people I visit are just
as afraid of people they don't know
as afraid of people they don't know
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我拜訪的那些人
只是害怕他們不認識的人，
08:14
as I was afraid of them before
I started inviting myself for coffee.
I started inviting myself for coffee.
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就如同在我開始要求
自己去喝咖啡之前，
自己去喝咖啡之前，
我會很害怕他們一樣。
08:21
During these meetings,
a specific theme keeps coming up.
a specific theme keeps coming up.
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在這些會面過程中，
有一個主題不斷出現。
有一個主題不斷出現。
08:24
It shows up regardless whether
I'm talking to a humanist or a racist,
I'm talking to a humanist or a racist,
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這個主題總會出現，不論我談話的
對象是人道主義者或種族主義者，
08:29
a man, a woman,
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男人或女人，
08:30
a Muslim or an atheist.
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穆斯林或無神論者。
他們似乎全都認為
08:32
They all seem to think
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08:34
that other people
are to blame for the hate
are to blame for the hate
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仇恨、族群的概化，
都是其他人的錯，
都是其他人的錯，
08:38
and for the generalization of groups.
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08:40
They all believe that other people
have to stop demonizing.
have to stop demonizing.
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他們都相信，
其他人必須要停止妖魔化。
其他人必須要停止妖魔化。
08:45
They point at politicians,
the media, their neighbor
the media, their neighbor
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他們把矛頭對準政客、
媒體、他們的鄰居，
媒體、他們的鄰居，
08:47
or the bus driver
who stops 10 meters away.
who stops 10 meters away.
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或是把公車停在十公尺外的司機。
08:51
But when I asked, "What about you?
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但當我問：「你自己呢？
08:55
What can you do?",
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你能做什麼？」
08:57
the reply is usually,
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回答通常是：
08:59
"What can I do?
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「我能做什麼？
09:01
I have no influence.
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我沒有影響力。
09:03
I have no power."
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我沒有權力。」
09:06
I know that feeling.
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我知道那種感覺。
09:08
For a large part of my life,
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我人生中很長一段時間也認為
09:10
I also thought that I didn't have
any power or influence --
any power or influence --
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我沒有任何權力或影響力——
09:16
even when I was a member
of the Danish parliament.
of the Danish parliament.
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即使當我成為丹麥
國會的成員也一樣。
國會的成員也一樣。
09:20
But today I know the reality is different.
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但，現今，我知道現實是不同的。
09:22
We all have power
and influence where we are,
and influence where we are,
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不論我們在哪裡，
我們都有權力和影響力，
我們都有權力和影響力，
09:25
so we must never,
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所以我們永遠不可以，
09:28
never underestimate our own potential.
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永遠不可以低估我們自己的潛力。
09:35
The #dialoguecoffee meetings
have taught me
have taught me
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「#對話咖啡」會面教導我的是：
09:37
that people of all political convictions
can be caught demonizing
can be caught demonizing
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任何政治信念的人，
都可能會將其他
不同觀點的人給妖魔化。
不同觀點的人給妖魔化。
09:41
the others with different views.
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09:44
I know what I'm talking about.
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我知道我在說什麼。
09:45
As a young child, I hated
different population groups.
different population groups.
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我還小的時候，
我痛恨不同的族群。
我痛恨不同的族群。
09:50
And at the time, my religious views
were very extreme.
were very extreme.
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那時，我的宗教觀點
是非常極端的。
是非常極端的。
09:54
But my friendship with Turks,
with Danes, with Jews and with racists
with Danes, with Jews and with racists
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但我和土耳其人、丹麥人、
猶太人，及種族主義者的友誼，
猶太人，及種族主義者的友誼，
09:59
has vaccinated me
against my own prejudices.
against my own prejudices.
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已經讓我對於我自己的
偏見能夠免疫。
偏見能夠免疫。
10:04
I grew up in a working-class family,
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我在一個勞工階級的家庭長大，
10:06
and on my journey I have met many people
who have insisted on speaking to me.
who have insisted on speaking to me.
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在我的旅程中，我見到了許多人，
他們堅持要跟我說話。
10:13
They have changed my views.
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他們改變了我的觀點。
10:16
They have formed me as a democratic
citizen and a bridge builder.
citizen and a bridge builder.
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他們讓我成為了一個民主的
公民以及搭起橋樑的人。
公民以及搭起橋樑的人。
10:22
If you want to prevent hate and violence,
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如果你想要預防仇恨和暴力，
10:24
we have to talk to as many
people as possible
people as possible
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我們得要盡可能和更多人談談，
10:27
for as long as possible
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能做多久就做多久，
10:30
while being as open as possible.
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且要盡可能讓自己保持開放態度。
10:33
That can only be achieved through debate,
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達成的唯一方式只有辯論、
10:36
critical conversation
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批判性交談，
10:38
and insisting on dialogue
that doesn't demonize people.
that doesn't demonize people.
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並堅持在對話中不要將別人妖魔化。
10:44
I'm going to ask you a question.
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我要問各位一個問題。
10:47
I invite you to think about it when
you get home and in the coming days,
you get home and in the coming days,
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我想請各位在回家之後
及接下來的幾天想想這個問題，
及接下來的幾天想想這個問題，
10:51
but you have to be honest with yourself.
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但你們得要對自己誠實以待。
10:54
It should be easy,
no one else will know it.
no one else will know it.
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應該很容易，沒有其他人會知道。
10:58
The question is this ...
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這個問題就是……
11:02
who do you demonize?
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你把誰妖魔化了？
11:06
Do you think supporters of American
President Trump are deplorables?
President Trump are deplorables?
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你認為美國總統川普的支持者
是可嘆的、淒慘的人
（註：希拉蕊說的）？
（註：希拉蕊說的）？
11:12
Or that those who voted for Turkish
President Erdoğan are crazy Islamists?
President Erdoğan are crazy Islamists?
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或者，認為投票給
土耳其總統艾爾多安的人
土耳其總統艾爾多安的人
是瘋狂的伊斯蘭教徒？
11:20
Or that those who voted for Le Pen
in France are stupid fascists?
in France are stupid fascists?
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或者，認為在法國投票給勒朋的人
是愚蠢的法西斯主義者？
11:27
Or perhaps you think that Americans
who voted for Bernie Sanders
who voted for Bernie Sanders
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或者，也許你認為投票給
伯尼桑德斯的美國人
伯尼桑德斯的美國人
11:31
are immature hippies.
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是不成熟的嬉皮？
11:33
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
11:35
All those words have been used
to vilify those groups.
to vilify those groups.
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所有這些字詞，
都曾經被用來誹謗那些族群。
都曾經被用來誹謗那些族群。
11:41
Maybe at this point,
do you think I am an idealist?
do you think I am an idealist?
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也許，在這個時點，
你認為我是個理想主義者？
你認為我是個理想主義者？
11:48
I want to give you a challenge.
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我想要給各位一個挑戰。
11:50
Before the end of this year,
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在今年結束之前，
11:52
I challenge you to invite
someone who you demonize --
someone who you demonize --
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我挑戰各位，去邀請
某個被你妖魔化的人——
某個被你妖魔化的人——
11:57
someone who you disagree with
politically and/or culturally
politically and/or culturally
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你在政治上及／或文化上不能認同，
12:01
and don't think you have
anything in common with.
anything in common with.
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且你認為和你沒有共通點的人。
12:06
I challenge you to invite someone
like this to #dialoguecoffee.
like this to #dialoguecoffee.
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我挑戰各位，去邀請這樣的人
進行#對話咖啡。
進行#對話咖啡。
12:11
Remember Ingolf?
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記得英格夫嗎？
12:13
Basically, I'm asking you
to find an Ingolf in your life,
to find an Ingolf in your life,
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基本上，我是在請你們去找到
自己人生中的英格夫，
自己人生中的英格夫，
12:17
contact him or her
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聯絡他／她，
12:19
and suggest that you can meet
for #dialoguecofee.
for #dialoguecofee.
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提議你們可以見個面，
來杯#對話咖啡。
來杯#對話咖啡。
12:23
When you start at #dialoguecoffee,
you have to remember this:
you have to remember this:
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當你開始做#對話咖啡時，切記：
12:26
first, don't give up
if the person refuses at first.
if the person refuses at first.
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第一，如果對方一開始拒絕你，
不要放棄。
12:31
Sometimes it's taken me nearly one year
to arrange a #dialoguecoffee meeting.
to arrange a #dialoguecoffee meeting.
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有時，我要花一年才能安排好
一次#對話咖啡的會面。
一次#對話咖啡的會面。
12:36
Two:
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第二：認可對方的勇氣。
12:37
acknowledge the other person's courage.
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12:40
It isn't just you who's brave.
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勇敢的人不只是你。
12:42
The one who's inviting you
into their home is just as brave.
into their home is just as brave.
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邀請你進到他家中的
那個人也同等勇敢。
那個人也同等勇敢。
12:46
Three:
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第三：在交談時不要做評斷。
12:48
don't judge during the conversation.
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12:50
Make sure that most of the conversation
focuses on what you have in common.
focuses on what you have in common.
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確保交談能大致上聚焦在
你們的共通點上。
你們的共通點上。
12:55
As I said, bring food.
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如先前說過的，帶食物去。
12:58
And finally, remember to finish
the conversation in a positive way
the conversation in a positive way
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最後，切記，要用
正面的方式來結束交談，
正面的方式來結束交談，
13:02
because you are going to meet again.
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因為你們會再次見面。
13:04
A bridge can't be built in one day.
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橋樑不是一天就能建造好的。
13:09
We are living in a world where many people
hold definitive and often extreme opinions
hold definitive and often extreme opinions
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在我們所居住的世界中，
人們對於其他人
人們對於其他人
會抱持有決定性
且通常很極端的意見，
且通常很極端的意見，
13:14
about the others
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13:15
without knowing much about them.
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但其實對於對方所知甚少。
13:18
We notice of course the prejudices
on the other side than in our own bases.
on the other side than in our own bases.
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我們比較會注意到對方的偏見，
而不是我們自己這邊的。
13:24
And we ban them from our lives.
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我們就把他們排拒在
我們的人生之外了。
我們的人生之外了。
13:27
We delete the hate mails.
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我們會把攻擊性信件刪除。
13:29
We hang out only with people
who think like us
who think like us
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我們只和跟我們思想
相近的人一起出去，
相近的人一起出去，
13:32
and talk about the others
in a category of disdain.
in a category of disdain.
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用一種鄙棄的方式來談論他人。
13:36
We unfriend people on Facebook,
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我們在臉書上解除朋友關係，
13:39
and when we meet people
who are discriminating
who are discriminating
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當我們遇到有歧視或是會把
人或族群給妖魔化的人時，
13:42
or dehumanizing people or groups,
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13:44
we don't insist on speaking with them
to challenge their opinions.
to challenge their opinions.
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我們不會堅持要和他們說話
來挑戰他們的意見。
來挑戰他們的意見。
13:50
That's how healthy democratic
societies break down --
societies break down --
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健康的民主社會就是
這樣才失靈的——
這樣才失靈的——
13:55
when we don't check the personal
responsibility for the democracy.
responsibility for the democracy.
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我們不去檢查個人在民主上的責任。
14:00
We take the democracy for granted.
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我們覺得民主是理所當然的。
14:03
It is not.
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並不是。
14:06
Conversation is the most difficult
thing in a democracy
thing in a democracy
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在民主中，交談是最困難，
14:10
and also the most important.
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卻也是最重要的。
14:16
So here's my challenge.
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所以，這是我給大家的挑戰。
14:18
Find your Ingolf.
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找到你的英格夫。（笑聲）
14:20
(Laughter)
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14:21
Start a conversation.
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開始進行交談。
14:23
Trenches have been dug
between people, yes,
between people, yes,
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是的，人與人之間
已經被挖出了鴻溝，
已經被挖出了鴻溝，
14:27
but we all have the ability to build
the bridges that cross the trenches.
the bridges that cross the trenches.
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但我們都有能力
可以在鴻溝上面搭建橋樑。
14:35
And let me end by quoting my friend,
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在演說的尾聲，我想要引述
我朋友沙吉阿特烏贊的話，
我朋友沙吉阿特烏贊的話，
14:38
Sergeot Uzan,
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14:40
who lost his son, Dan Uzan,
in a terror attack
in a terror attack
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在一場恐怖攻擊當中，
他失去了他的兒子，丹烏贊，
他失去了他的兒子，丹烏贊，
14:44
on a Jewish synagogue in Copenhagen, 2015.
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這件事於 2015 年發生在
哥本哈根的猶太教堂中。
哥本哈根的猶太教堂中。
14:49
Sergio rejected any suggestion of revenge
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沙吉阿特回絕了任何報復的建議，
14:53
and instead said this ...
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反之，他這麼說……
14:58
"Evil can only be defeated
by kindness between people.
by kindness between people.
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「只有人與人之間的仁慈，
才能打敗邪惡。
才能打敗邪惡。
15:03
Kindness demands courage."
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仁慈需要勇氣。」
15:07
Dear friends,
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親愛的朋友們，
15:09
let's be courageous.
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咱們鼓起勇氣吧。
15:11
Thank you.
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謝謝。
15:12
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Özlem Cekic - Bridge builder, authorBorn in Turkey with Kurdish roots, Özlem Sara Cekic was one of the first women with a Muslim immigrant background to be elected to the Danish Parliament, where she served from 2007 to 2015.
Why you should listen
During her time as a member of Folketing, the Danish Parliament, Özlem Cekic's inbox was inundated with hate mail and threats. She first responded by deleting the emails, but then she started replying and inviting those who had sent her abusive messages to meet and engage in dialogue. She calls it #dialoguecoffee, as the meetings generally happen over coffee, and usually at the home of the person who wrote the message. She has met neo-Nazis, racists and religious extremists as she works to try to understand the origin of the hate, find a common language and develop a toolkit for building bridges.
Özlem Cekic | Speaker | TED.com