TEDWomen 2015
Michael Kimmel: Why gender equality is good for everyone — men included
Michael Kimmel: Por que a igualdade de xénero é boa para todos - homes inclusive
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Si, sabemos que é o correcto. Pero Michael Kimmel propón un sorprendente e divertido caso práctico; tratar aos homes e ás mulleres de igual xeito no lugar de traballo e na casa. Non é un xogo onde un perde e outro gaña, é un xogo onde todos gañan, e que suporá ter máis oportunidades e máis felicidade para todas as persoas.
Michael Kimmel - Sociologist
The author of "Angry White Men," Michael Kimmel is a pre-eminent scholar of men and masculinity. Full bio
The author of "Angry White Men," Michael Kimmel is a pre-eminent scholar of men and masculinity. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Estou aquí para recrutar homes
que apoien a igualdade de xénero.
que apoien a igualdade de xénero.
00:12
I'm here to recruit men
to support gender equality.
to support gender equality.
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00:16
(Cheers)
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(Vivas)
Agardade, agardade. Que?
00:19
Wait, wait. What?
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Que teñen que ver os homes
coa igualdade de xénero?
coa igualdade de xénero?
00:22
What do men have to do
with gender equality?
with gender equality?
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É unha cousa de mulleres, non?
00:25
Gender equality is about women, right?
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É dicir, a palabra xénero
é cousa de mulleres.
é cousa de mulleres.
00:27
I mean, the word gender is about women.
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En realidade, estou falando como
un home branco de clase media.
un home branco de clase media.
00:32
Actually, I'm even here speaking
as a middle class white man.
as a middle class white man.
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00:36
Now, I wasn't always
a middle class white man.
a middle class white man.
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Mais non sempre fun
un home branco de clase media.
un home branco de clase media.
00:39
It all happened for me about 30 years ago
when I was in graduate school,
when I was in graduate school,
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Todo ocorreu hai 30 anos
cando estaba na universidade.
cando estaba na universidade.
00:44
and a bunch of us graduate students
got together one day,
got together one day,
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Un grupo de estudantes
saímos un día
saímos un día
00:48
and we said, you know,
there's an explosion
there's an explosion
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e dixemos:
Hai unha morea
Hai unha morea
de escritos e debates
sobre teoría feminista,
sobre teoría feminista,
00:50
of writing and thinking
in feminist theory,
in feminist theory,
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pero aínda non hai cursos.
00:54
but there's no courses yet.
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00:56
So we did what graduate students
typically do in a situation like that.
typically do in a situation like that.
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E fixemos o que calquera
estudante faría nesa situación.
estudante faría nesa situación.
00:59
We said, OK, let's have a study group.
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Dixemos: "Ben, imos facer
un grupo de estudo.
un grupo de estudo.
01:02
We'll read a text, we'll talk about it,
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Imos ler un texto, falar del
01:05
we'll have a potluck dinner.
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e organizar unha cea".
(Risos)
01:06
(Laughter)
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01:08
So every week,
11 women and me got together.
11 women and me got together.
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Así que cada semana reuniámonos
11 mulleres e mais eu.
11 mulleres e mais eu.
01:11
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
Liamos algún texto sobre teoría feminista
e conversabamos sobre el.
e conversabamos sobre el.
01:14
We would read some text in feminist theory
and have a conversation about it.
and have a conversation about it.
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01:18
And during one of our conversations,
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E durante unha das nosas conversas,
fun testemuña de algo
que cambiou a miña vida para sempre.
que cambiou a miña vida para sempre.
01:20
I witnessed an interaction
that changed my life forever.
that changed my life forever.
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01:25
It was a conversation between two women.
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Era unha conversa
entre dúas mulleres.
entre dúas mulleres.
01:28
One of the women was white,
and one was black.
and one was black.
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Unha das mulleres era branca
e a outra era negra.
e a outra era negra.
01:32
And the white woman said --
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A muller branca dixo
--isto vai soar moi anacrónico agora--
01:34
this is going to sound
very anachronistic now --
very anachronistic now --
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01:36
the white woman said, "All women
face the same oppression as women.
face the same oppression as women.
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a muller branca dixo: "Todas as mulleres
sofren a mesma opresión como mulleres.
sofren a mesma opresión como mulleres.
01:42
All women are similarly
situated in patriarchy,
situated in patriarchy,
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Todas as mulleres sofren
o mesmo patriarcado
o mesmo patriarcado
e, polo tanto, todas as mulleres teñen
unha irmandade instintiva."
unha irmandade instintiva."
01:45
and therefore all women have a kind
of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."
of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."
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01:50
And the black woman said,
"I'm not so sure.
"I'm not so sure.
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E a muller negra dixo:
"Non estou tan segura.
"Non estou tan segura.
01:54
Let me ask you a question."
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Deixa que che faga unha pregunta."
01:56
So the black woman
says to the white woman,
says to the white woman,
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Entón a muller negra
dille á muller branca:
dille á muller branca:
01:59
"When you wake up in the morning
and you look in the mirror,
and you look in the mirror,
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"Cando espertas pola mañá
e te miras no espello,
e te miras no espello,
que ves?"
02:01
what do you see?"
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E a muller branca dixo:
"Vexo unha muller."
"Vexo unha muller."
02:03
And the white woman said, "I see a woman."
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02:05
And the black woman said,
"You see, that's the problem for me.
"You see, that's the problem for me.
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E a muller negra dixo:
"Ves? Ese é o problema que teño eu.
"Ves? Ese é o problema que teño eu.
Porque cando eu esperto pola mañá
e me miro no espello
e me miro no espello
02:09
Because when I wake up in the morning
and I look in the mirror," she said,
and I look in the mirror," she said,
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vexo unha muller negra.
02:12
"I see a black woman.
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02:13
To me, race is visible. But to you,
race is invisible. You don't see it."
race is invisible. You don't see it."
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Para min, a raza é visible. Pero para ti,
a raza é invisible. Ti non a ves."
a raza é invisible. Ti non a ves."
02:19
And then she said
something really startling.
something really startling.
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E logo dixo algo abraiante:
02:22
She said, "That's how privilege works.
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"Así é como funcionan os privilexios.
02:25
Privilege is invisible
to those who have it."
to those who have it."
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O privilexio é invisible
para quen o ten."
para quen o ten."
02:28
It is a luxury, I will say
to the white people sitting in this room,
to the white people sitting in this room,
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É un luxo, dígolle á xente branca
que está nesta sala,
que está nesta sala,
non ter que pensar sobre a raza
cada segundo das nosas vidas.
cada segundo das nosas vidas.
02:31
not to have to think about race
every split second of our lives.
every split second of our lives.
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02:35
Privilege is invisible
to those who have it.
to those who have it.
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O privilexio é invisible
para quen o ten.
para quen o ten.
02:39
Now remember, I was
the only man in this group,
the only man in this group,
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Lembrade, eu era
o único home neste grupo,
o único home neste grupo,
02:41
so when I witnessed this, I went, "Oh no."
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así que cando oín isto,
pensei: "Oh, non."
pensei: "Oh, non."
(Risos)
02:44
(Laughter)
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E alguén dixo:
"Que foi esa reacción?"
"Que foi esa reacción?"
02:46
And somebody said,
"Well what was that reaction?"
"Well what was that reaction?"
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E dixen: "Ben, cando esperto
pola mañá e me miro no espello,
pola mañá e me miro no espello,
02:48
And I said, "Well, when I wake up
in the morning and I look in the mirror,
in the morning and I look in the mirror,
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02:52
I see a human being.
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vexo un ser humano.
02:54
I'm kind of the generic person.
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Son unha persoa normal.
02:57
You know, I'm a middle class white man.
I have no race, no class, no gender.
I have no race, no class, no gender.
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Xa sabedes, un home branco de clase media.
Non teño raza, nin clase, nin xénero.
Non teño raza, nin clase, nin xénero.
03:01
I'm universally generalizable."
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Son universalmente xeneralizable."
03:03
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
03:04
So I like to think that was the moment
I became a middle class white man,
I became a middle class white man,
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Gústame pensar que aí me convertín
nun home branco de clase media
nun home branco de clase media
03:08
that class and race and gender
were not about other people,
were not about other people,
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e que a clase, a raza e o xénero
xa non eran cousas doutras persoas,
xa non eran cousas doutras persoas,
tamén me atinxían a min.
03:12
they were about me.
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Tiven que empezar a pensar sobre iso,
03:14
I had to start thinking about them,
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03:16
and it had been privilege that had
kept it invisible to me for so long.
kept it invisible to me for so long.
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e foi o privilexio o que o mantivo
invisible durante tanto tempo.
invisible durante tanto tempo.
Gustaríame poder dicir
que esa historia acabou hai 30 anos
que esa historia acabou hai 30 anos
03:21
Now, I wish I could tell you
this story ends 30 years ago
this story ends 30 years ago
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03:23
in that little discussion group,
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nesa pequena discusión de grupo
03:25
but I was reminded of it quite recently
at my university where I teach.
at my university where I teach.
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pero lembráronmo hai ben pouco
na universidade onde ensino.
na universidade onde ensino.
03:29
I have a colleague, and she and I
both teach the sociology of gender course
both teach the sociology of gender course
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Teño unha colega, e ela e eu ensinamos
a socioloxía do curso de xénero
a socioloxía do curso de xénero
en semestres alternos.
03:33
on alternate semesters.
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03:35
So she gives a guest lecture
for me when I teach.
for me when I teach.
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Ela dá unha charla para min
cando eu dou clases.
cando eu dou clases.
Eu dou unha charla para ela
cando ela dá clases.
cando ela dá clases.
03:37
I give a guest lecture
for her when she teaches.
for her when she teaches.
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Así que entrei na súa clase
para dar a charla,
para dar a charla,
03:39
So I walk into her class
to give a guest lecture,
to give a guest lecture,
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había máis ou menos
300 estudantes na sala,
300 estudantes na sala,
03:43
about 300 students in the room,
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e cando entro, un dos estudantes
mira e di:
mira e di:
03:45
and as I walk in, one of the students
looks up and says,
looks up and says,
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"Por fin, unha opinión obxectiva."
03:48
"Oh, finally, an objective opinion."
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Durante todo ese semestre, cada vez
que a miña colega abría a boca,
que a miña colega abría a boca,
03:52
All that semester, whenever
my colleague opened her mouth,
my colleague opened her mouth,
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03:56
what my students saw was a woman.
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o que vían os meus estudantes
era unha muller.
era unha muller.
É dicir, se lles dicía
aos meus estudantes:
aos meus estudantes:
03:58
I mean, if you were to say to my students,
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04:00
"There is structural inequality
based on gender in the United States,"
based on gender in the United States,"
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"Hai unha desigualdade estrutural
baseada no xénero nos EE. UU."
baseada no xénero nos EE. UU."
04:04
they'd say, "Well of course
you'd say that.
you'd say that.
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Eles dirían: "É normal que digas iso.
04:06
You're a woman. You're biased."
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Es muller. Estás condicionada."
04:07
When I say it, they go,
"Wow, is that interesting.
"Wow, is that interesting.
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Cando o digo eu, eles pensan
"Uau, que interesante.
"Uau, que interesante.
Vai caer no exame?
Como se escribe 'estrutural'?"
Como se escribe 'estrutural'?"
04:10
Is that going to be on the test?
How do you spell 'structural'?"
How do you spell 'structural'?"
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(Risos)
04:13
(Laughter)
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Agardo que o poidades ver ben,
04:15
So I hope you all can see,
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isto é ao que se asemella
a obxectividade.
a obxectividade.
04:17
this is what objectivity looks like.
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(Risos) (Aplausos)
04:20
(Laughter) (Applause)
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04:24
Disembodied Western rationality.
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Racionalidade occidental incorpórea.
04:27
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
04:30
And that, by the way, is why I think
men so often wear ties.
men so often wear ties.
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E por esa razón
creo que os homes levan gravata.
creo que os homes levan gravata.
04:34
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
Porque se ti vas encarnar
a racionalidade occidental incorpórea,
a racionalidade occidental incorpórea,
04:36
Because if you are going to embody
disembodied Western rationality,
disembodied Western rationality,
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precisas un sinal,
04:40
you need a signifier,
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e que mellor sinal da
racionalidade occidental incorpórea
racionalidade occidental incorpórea
04:42
and what could be a better signifier
of disembodied Western rationality
of disembodied Western rationality
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que unha prenda que nun extremo
é un nó e no outro apunta aos xenitais?
é un nó e no outro apunta aos xenitais?
04:46
than a garment that at one end is a noose
and the other end points to the genitals?
and the other end points to the genitals?
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(Risos) (Aplausos)
04:50
(Laughter) (Applause)
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04:57
That is mind-body dualism right there.
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Iso é puro dualismo mente-corpo.
05:04
So making gender visible to men
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Así que facerlles visible
o xénero aos homes
o xénero aos homes
05:08
is the first step to engaging men
to support gender equality.
to support gender equality.
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é o primeiro paso para atraer homes
que apoien a igualdade de xénero.
que apoien a igualdade de xénero.
Cando os homes comezan
a oír sobre a igualdade
a oír sobre a igualdade
05:13
Now, when men first hear
about gender equality,
about gender equality,
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05:15
when they first start thinking about it,
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cando comezan a pensar sobre iso,
05:17
they often think, many men think,
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a miúdo pensan, moitos pensan,
05:19
well, that's right,
that's fair, that's just,
that's fair, that's just,
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ben, é correcto, xusto e equitativo,
05:24
that's the ethical imperative.
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é o imperativo ético.
05:27
But not all men.
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Pero non todos os homes.
05:28
Some men think --
the lightning bolt goes off,
the lightning bolt goes off,
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Algúns homes pensan
--acéndeselles a lámpada--
--acéndeselles a lámpada--
e din: "Claro,
si, igualdade de xénero,"
si, igualdade de xénero,"
05:31
and they go, "Oh my God,
yes, gender equality,"
yes, gender equality,"
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e inmediatamente comezan a explicarche
a túa propia opresión.
a túa propia opresión.
05:34
and they will immediately begin
to mansplain to you your oppression.
to mansplain to you your oppression.
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05:39
They see supporting gender equality
something akin to the cavalry,
something akin to the cavalry,
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Ven o apoio á igualdade de xénero
como unha chamada á cabalaría,
como unha chamada á cabalaría,
algo como "Grazas, señoras,
por facernos reflexionar sobre isto,
por facernos reflexionar sobre isto,
05:44
like, "Thanks very much for bringing this
to our attention, ladies,
to our attention, ladies,
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xa nos ocupamos nós."
05:47
we'll take it from here."
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05:49
This results in a syndrome that I like
to call 'premature self-congratulation.'
to call 'premature self-congratulation.'
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Isto resulta nunha síndrome que
denomino "autocomplacencia prematura."
denomino "autocomplacencia prematura."
(Risos) (Aplausos)
05:53
(Laughter) (Applause)
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05:58
There's another group, though,
that actively resists gender equality,
that actively resists gender equality,
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Aínda que hai outro grupo que se resiste
activamente á igualdade de xénero,
activamente á igualdade de xénero,
06:02
that sees gender equality
as something that is detrimental to men.
as something that is detrimental to men.
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que ve a igualdade de xénero
como algo que vai en detrimento dos homes.
como algo que vai en detrimento dos homes.
06:07
I was on a TV talk show
opposite four white men.
opposite four white men.
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Eu estiven nun programa de entrevistas
en fronte de catro homes brancos.
en fronte de catro homes brancos.
Este é o comezo do libro
que escribín, Angry White Men.
que escribín, Angry White Men.
06:11
This is the beginning of the book
I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'
I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'
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Estes eran catro homes brancos irados
06:14
These were four angry white men
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06:16
who believed that they,
white men in America,
white men in America,
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que crían que eles,
homes brancos en América,
homes brancos en América,
06:20
were the victims of reverse discrimination
in the workplace.
in the workplace.
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eran vítimas da discriminación positiva
no traballo.
no traballo.
E contaron historias de como
estaban cualificados para traballos,
estaban cualificados para traballos,
06:25
And they all told stories
about how they were qualified for jobs,
about how they were qualified for jobs,
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cualificados para ascensos,
06:28
qualified for promotions,
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06:30
they didn't get them,
they were really angry.
they were really angry.
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que non conseguiron,
estaban moi anoxados.
estaban moi anoxados.
E cóntovos isto porque quero
que oiades o título
que oiades o título
06:32
And the reason I'm telling you this
is I want you to hear the title
is I want you to hear the title
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06:35
of this particular show.
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deste peculiar programa.
06:37
It was a quote from one of the men,
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Era unha frase dun destes homes,
e a frase era:
06:39
and the quote was,
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06:40
"A Black Woman Stole My Job."
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"Unha muller negra roubou o meu traballo."
E contaron as súas historias,
06:44
And they all told their stories,
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cualificados para traballos
e ascensos,
e ascensos,
06:45
qualified for jobs,
qualified for promotions,
qualified for promotions,
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non o conseguiron,
moi irados.
moi irados.
06:48
didn't get it, really angry.
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E chegou a miña quenda para falar
06:49
And then it was my turn to speak,
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06:51
and I said, "I have
just one question for you guys,
just one question for you guys,
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e dixen: "Teño só unha
pregunta para vós,
pregunta para vós,
06:53
and it's about the title of the show,
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e trata sobre o título do programa,
'Unha muller negra
roubou o meu traballo.'
roubou o meu traballo.'
06:56
'A Black Woman Stole My Job.'
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06:58
Actually, it's about
one word in the title.
one word in the title.
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En realidade, é sobre unha soa
palabra do título.
palabra do título.
Quero saber algo sobre a
palabra meu.
palabra meu.
07:01
I want to know about the word 'my.'
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07:03
Where did you get the idea
it was your job?
it was your job?
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De onde sacastes a idea
de que era o voso traballo?
de que era o voso traballo?
07:07
Why isn't the title of the show,
'A Black Woman Got the Job?'
'A Black Woman Got the Job?'
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Por que o título non é
'Unha muller negra conseguiu o traballo?'
'Unha muller negra conseguiu o traballo?'
ou 'Unha muller negra conseguiu
un traballo'?
un traballo'?
07:10
or 'A Black Woman Got A Job?'"
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07:13
Because without confronting
men's sense of entitlement,
men's sense of entitlement,
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Porque sen cuestionar ese sentimento
dos homes de 'teren dereito',
dos homes de 'teren dereito',
non creo que se entenda por que tantos
homes se resisten á igualdade de xénero.
homes se resisten á igualdade de xénero.
07:16
I don't think we'll ever understand
why so many men resist gender equality.
why so many men resist gender equality.
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(Aplausos)
07:20
(Applause)
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07:27
Look, we think this
is a level playing field,
is a level playing field,
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Mirade, pensamos que isto é
un terreo de xogo equilibrado
un terreo de xogo equilibrado
así que calquera política
que o incline un pouco,
que o incline un pouco,
07:30
so any policy that tilts it
even a little bit,
even a little bit,
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pensamos:
"Deus, a auga vai cara a arriba.
"Deus, a auga vai cara a arriba.
07:32
we think, "Oh my God,
water's rushing uphill.
water's rushing uphill.
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É discriminación positiva contra nós."
07:34
It's reverse discrimination against us."
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(Risos)
07:36
(Laughter)
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Así que deixade que sexa moi claro:
07:37
So let me be very clear:
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07:39
white men in Europe and the United States
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os homes brancos en Europa e nos EE. UU.
son os beneficiarios
do único gran programa de acción positiva
do único gran programa de acción positiva
07:42
are the beneficiaries of the single
greatest affirmative action program
greatest affirmative action program
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na historia do mundo.
07:46
in the history of the world.
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Chámase "a historia do mundo".
07:48
It is called "the history of the world."
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07:50
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Risos) (Aplausos)
07:56
So, now I've established
some of the obstacles to engaging men,
some of the obstacles to engaging men,
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Así que agora xa establecín
algúns dos atrancos para atraer homes,
algúns dos atrancos para atraer homes,
pero por que deberiamos apoiar
a igualdade de xénero?
a igualdade de xénero?
08:01
but why should we support gender equality?
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Claro, é xusto, correcto e equitativo.
08:03
Of course, it's fair,
it's right and it's just.
it's right and it's just.
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08:07
But more than that,
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Pero é máis ca iso,
a igualdade de xénero tamén
nos interesa como homes.
nos interesa como homes.
08:08
gender equality is also
in our interest as men.
in our interest as men.
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08:13
If you listen to what men say
about what they want in their lives,
about what they want in their lives,
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Se escoitades o que din os homes
sobre o que queren nas súas vidas,
sobre o que queren nas súas vidas,
a igualdade de xénero é, en realidade,
un xeito de acadar as vidas que queremos.
un xeito de acadar as vidas que queremos.
08:18
gender equality is actually a way
for us to get the lives we want to live.
for us to get the lives we want to live.
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08:23
Gender equality is good for countries.
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A igualdade de xénero
é boa para os países.
é boa para os países.
Resulta que, de acordo
coa maioría de estudos,
coa maioría de estudos,
08:27
It turns out, according to most studies,
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os países que teñen
maior igualdade de xénero
maior igualdade de xénero
08:31
that those countries
that are the most gender equal
that are the most gender equal
160
499600
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tamén son os países que puntúan mellor
na escala da felicidade.
na escala da felicidade.
08:34
are also the countries that score highest
on the happiness scale.
on the happiness scale.
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08:39
And that's not just because
they're all in Europe.
they're all in Europe.
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E iso non é só porque
estean todos en Europa.
estean todos en Europa.
08:41
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
Mesmo en Europa, aqueles países
que teñen máis igualdade de xénero
que teñen máis igualdade de xénero
08:42
Even within Europe, those countries
that are more gender equal
that are more gender equal
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tamén teñen os niveis
máis altos de felicidade.
máis altos de felicidade.
08:46
also have the highest levels of happiness.
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08:50
It is also good for companies.
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Tamén é bo para as empresas.
08:52
Research by Catalyst and others
has shown conclusively
has shown conclusively
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Investigacións feitas por Catalyst
e outros amosaron de xeito conclusivo
e outros amosaron de xeito conclusivo
que canta máis igualdade de xénero
hai nas empresas
hai nas empresas
08:56
that the more gender-equal companies are,
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09:00
the better it is for workers,
169
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mellor é para os traballadores,
09:04
the happier their labor force is.
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a man de obra é máis feliz.
Teñen menos cambios de emprego
e menos niveis de abandono.
e menos niveis de abandono.
09:06
They have lower job turnover.
They have lower levels of attrition.
They have lower levels of attrition.
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09:10
They have an easier time recruiting.
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É máis fácil contratar xente.
O nivel de permanencia é alto
e o grao de satisfacción maior,
e o grao de satisfacción maior,
09:12
They have higher rates of retention,
higher job satisfaction,
higher job satisfaction,
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con taxas de produtividade máis altas.
09:15
higher rates of productivity.
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As empresas pregúntanme
a miúdo:
a miúdo:
09:17
So the question I'm often asked
in companies is,
in companies is,
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"Isto da igualdade de xénero,
vai ser moi caro, non?"
vai ser moi caro, non?"
09:20
"Boy, this gender equality thing,
that's really going to be expensive, huh?"
that's really going to be expensive, huh?"
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E eu digo: "Non, de feito,
o que tes que comezar a calcular
o que tes que comezar a calcular
09:24
And I say, "Oh no, in fact,
what you have to start calculating
what you have to start calculating
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é canto vos está custando
a desigualdade de xénero.
a desigualdade de xénero.
09:28
is how much gender inequality
is already costing you.
is already costing you.
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09:32
It is extremely expensive."
179
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1920
É extremadamente cara."
09:34
So it is good for business.
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Así que é boa para o traballo.
09:37
And the other thing is, it's good for men.
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E ademais, é boa para os homes.
09:41
It is good for the kind of lives
we want to live,
we want to live,
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É boa para o tipo de vidas
que queremos vivir,
que queremos vivir,
porque os homes novos, especialmente,
cambiaron moitísimo,
cambiaron moitísimo,
09:44
because young men especially
have changed enormously,
have changed enormously,
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09:48
and they want to have lives
that are animated
that are animated
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e queren ter vidas estimulantes
09:51
by terrific relationships
with their children.
with their children.
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con relacións estupendas
cos seus fillos.
cos seus fillos.
Agardan que as súas compañeiras,
esposas, mulleres,
esposas, mulleres,
09:53
They expect their partners,
their spouses, their wives,
their spouses, their wives,
186
581960
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traballen fóra da casa
09:57
to work outside the home
187
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09:58
and be just as committed
to their careers as they are.
to their careers as they are.
188
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e estean tan comprometidas
coa súa carreira coma eles.
coa súa carreira coma eles.
Estaba falando, para darvos unha
mostra deste cambio,
mostra deste cambio,
10:02
I was talking, to give you
an illustration of this change --
an illustration of this change --
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10:06
Some of you may remember this.
190
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algúns de vós lembraredes isto.
Cando eu era moito máis novo,
adoitaban propoñernos unha adiviña.
adoitaban propoñernos unha adiviña.
10:08
When I was a lot younger,
there was a riddle that was posed to us.
there was a riddle that was posed to us.
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Algún de vós pode arreguizarse
ao lembrar a adiviña.
ao lembrar a adiviña.
10:13
Some of you may wince
to remember this riddle.
to remember this riddle.
192
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10:15
This riddle went something like this.
193
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2576
Era algo así:
10:18
A man and his son
are driving on the freeway,
are driving on the freeway,
194
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Un home e o seu fillo
van conducindo pola autovía
van conducindo pola autovía
e teñen un grave accidente,
10:21
and they're in a terrible accident,
195
609600
1976
e o pai morre
10:23
and the father is killed,
196
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2256
10:25
and the son is brought
to the hospital emergency room,
to the hospital emergency room,
197
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3056
e levan o fillo a urxencias,
a un hospital,
a un hospital,
e cando meten o fillo
en urxencias,
en urxencias,
10:28
and as they're bringing the son
into the hospital emergency room,
into the hospital emergency room,
198
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3056
a persoa responsable
do servizo médico ve o rapaz e di
do servizo médico ve o rapaz e di
10:32
the emergency room attending physician
sees the boy and says,
sees the boy and says,
199
620040
3616
"Ai, non podo tratalo, é o meu fillo."
10:35
"Oh, I can't treat him, that's my son."
200
623680
2336
Como é posible?
10:38
How is this possible?
201
626040
1360
10:40
We were flummoxed by this.
202
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2296
Isto pasmábanos.
10:42
We could not figure this out.
203
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Non podiamos resolvelo.
(Risos)
10:44
(Laughter)
204
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1936
Ben, decidín facer un pequeno experimento
co meu fillo de 16 anos.
co meu fillo de 16 anos.
10:46
Well, I decided to do a little experiment
with my 16-year old son.
with my 16-year old son.
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3136
Estaba cun grupo de amizades na casa,
10:49
He had a bunch of his friends
hanging out at the house
hanging out at the house
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3456
vendo un partido na TV hai pouco.
10:53
watching a game on TV recently.
207
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Así que decidín
expoñerlles esta adiviña,
expoñerlles esta adiviña,
10:55
So I decided I would pose
this riddle to them,
this riddle to them,
208
643600
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só para ver, para calibrar
o nivel de cambio.
o nivel de cambio.
10:57
just to see, to gauge the level of change.
209
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2976
Ben, rapaces de 16 anos,
11:00
Well, 16-year-old boys,
210
648840
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eles dixeron inmediatamente:
"É a súa nai, non?"
"É a súa nai, non?"
11:02
they immediately turned to me
and said, "It's his mom." Right?
and said, "It's his mom." Right?
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Non houbo problema. Así de simple.
11:06
No problem. Just like that.
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Agás o meu fillo, que dixo:
"Ben, podía ter dous pais."
"Ben, podía ter dous pais."
11:08
Except for my son, who said,
"Well, he could have two dads."
"Well, he could have two dads."
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11:11
(Laughter) (Applause)
214
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(Risos) (Aplauso)
11:17
That's an index, an indicator
of how things have changed.
of how things have changed.
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665160
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Isto é un indicador
de como as cousas mudaron.
de como as cousas mudaron.
Os homes máis novos agardan
poder equilibrar traballo e familia.
poder equilibrar traballo e familia.
11:21
Younger men today expect
to be able to balance work and family.
to be able to balance work and family.
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Queren poder exercer ambos
no traballo e na familia.
no traballo e na familia.
11:26
They want to be dual-career,
dual-carer couples.
dual-carer couples.
217
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5296
Queren ser capaces de equilibrar
traballo e familia coas súas parellas.
traballo e familia coas súas parellas.
11:32
They want to be able to balance
work and family with their partners.
work and family with their partners.
218
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3696
Queren ser pais involucrados.
11:35
They want to be involved fathers.
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1896
Agora, resulta que
11:37
Now, it turns out
220
685800
2136
11:39
that the more egalitarian
our relationships,
our relationships,
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canto máis igualitarias
son as nosas relacións,
son as nosas relacións,
11:43
the happier both partners are.
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máis felices son ambos
os membros da parella.
os membros da parella.
11:46
Data from psychologists and sociologists
are quite persuasive here.
are quite persuasive here.
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Os datos da psicoloxía e da socioloxía
son bastante convincentes.
son bastante convincentes.
Penso que temos números concluíntes,
información, para probarlles aos homes
información, para probarlles aos homes
11:50
I think we have the persuasive numbers,
the data, to prove to men
the data, to prove to men
224
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5656
que a igualdade non vai de gañar ou perder
senón de gañar sempre
senón de gañar sempre
11:56
that gender equality
is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.
is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.
225
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12:00
Here's what the data show.
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Isto é o que amosan os datos.
Agora, cando os homes comezan
o proceso de equilibrar
o proceso de equilibrar
12:02
Now, when men begin
the process of engaging
the process of engaging
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5536
o traballo e a familia,
12:08
with balancing work and family,
228
716160
1776
hai dúas frases que usamos
a miúdo para describir o que facemos.
a miúdo para describir o que facemos.
12:09
we often have two phrases
that we use to describe what we do.
that we use to describe what we do.
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Botamos unha man e axudamos.
12:13
We pitch in and we help out.
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(Risos)
12:15
(Laughter)
231
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1216
E vou propor algo
un pouco máis radical,
un pouco máis radical,
12:16
And I'm going to propose
something a little bit more radical,
something a little bit more radical,
232
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unha palabra: "compartir."
12:19
one word: "share."
233
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12:21
(Laughter)
234
729120
1736
(Risos)
Porque os datos amosan isto:
12:22
Because here's what the data show:
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se os homes comparten tarefas
e coidado dos fillos,
e coidado dos fillos,
12:24
when men share housework and childcare,
236
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2296
12:26
their children do better in school.
237
734880
2080
aos fillos vailles mellor na escola.
12:29
Their children have lower rates
of absenteeism,
of absenteeism,
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737600
2616
Teñen menor nivel de absentismo,
taxas máis altas de logros.
12:32
higher rates of achievement.
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740240
1536
É menos probable que estean
diagnosticados de TDAH.
diagnosticados de TDAH.
12:33
They are less likely
to be diagnosed with ADHD.
to be diagnosed with ADHD.
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2736
É menos probable que visiten
un psiquiatra infantil.
un psiquiatra infantil.
12:36
They are less likely
to see a child psychiatrist.
to see a child psychiatrist.
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2856
É menos probable que precisen medicación.
12:39
They are less likely
to be put on medication.
to be put on medication.
242
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2120
12:42
So when men share housework and childcare,
243
750080
2840
Así que cando os homes comparten
tarefas e coidado dos fillos,
tarefas e coidado dos fillos,
12:45
their children are happier and healthier,
244
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2776
os fillos son máis felices e sans,
e os homes queren isto.
12:48
and men want this.
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756720
1680
Se os homes comparten tarefas
no fogar e coidan dos fillos
no fogar e coidan dos fillos
12:51
When men share housework and childcare,
246
759520
2416
12:53
their wives are happier. Duh.
247
761960
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as súas esposas son máis felices. Obvio.
12:57
Not only that, their wives are healthier.
248
765720
2456
Non só iso, as súas esposas
están máis sas.
están máis sas.
Teñen menos probabilidades
de ir a terapia,
de ir a terapia,
13:00
Their wives are less likely
to see a therapist,
to see a therapist,
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768200
2191
menos probabilidade
de diagnose de depresión,
de diagnose de depresión,
13:02
less likely to be diagnosed
with depression,
with depression,
250
770415
2048
menos probabilidade de ser medicadas,
máis probabilidades de ir ao ximnasio,
máis probabilidades de ir ao ximnasio,
13:04
less likely to be put on medication,
more likely to go to the gym,
more likely to go to the gym,
251
772487
3769
13:08
report higher levels
of marital satisfaction.
of marital satisfaction.
252
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3056
informan de niveis máis altos
de satisfacción conxugal.
de satisfacción conxugal.
13:11
So when men share housework and childcare,
253
779360
2016
Se os homes comparten
tarefas e coidado dos fillos,
tarefas e coidado dos fillos,
13:13
their wives are happier and healthier,
254
781400
1856
as mulleres son máis felices e sas
13:15
and men certainly want this as well.
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783280
1920
e os homes, por suposto,
tamén queren isto.
tamén queren isto.
Se os homes comparten tarefas
e coidado dos fillos,
e coidado dos fillos,
13:18
When men share housework and childcare,
256
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2176
13:20
the men are healthier.
257
788960
1736
están máis sans.
Fuman menos, beben menos,
13:22
They smoke less, drink less,
take recreational drugs less often.
take recreational drugs less often.
258
790720
3816
consomen drogas recreativas
con menos frecuencia.
con menos frecuencia.
Teñen menos probabilidades
de ir a urxencias
de ir a urxencias
13:26
They are less likely to go to the ER
259
794560
2696
13:29
but more like to go to a doctor
for routine screenings.
for routine screenings.
260
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3176
pero máis de ir ao médico
por exames de rutina.
por exames de rutina.
13:32
They are less likely to see a therapist,
261
800480
1936
Menos probabilidades de ir a terapia,
menos probabilidade
dunha diagnose de depresión,
dunha diagnose de depresión,
13:34
less likely to be diagnosed
with depression,
with depression,
262
802440
2096
13:36
less likely to be taking
prescription medication.
prescription medication.
263
804560
2496
menos probabilidade de tomar medicación.
Así que ao compartir
tarefas e coidado dos fillos
tarefas e coidado dos fillos
13:39
So when men share housework and childcare,
264
807080
2016
13:41
the men are happier and healthier.
265
809120
3176
os homes son máis felices
e están máis sans.
e están máis sans.
13:44
And who wouldn't want that?
266
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1360
E a quen non lle gusta isto?
13:46
And finally,
267
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1256
E finalmente,
se os homes comparten
tarefas e coidado dos fillos,
tarefas e coidado dos fillos,
13:47
when men share housework and childcare,
268
815920
1936
13:49
they have more sex.
269
817880
1216
teñen máis sexo.
(Risos)
13:51
(Laughter)
270
819120
1416
Ben, destes catro
fascinantes descubrimentos,
fascinantes descubrimentos,
13:52
Now, of these four fascinating findings,
271
820560
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cal supoñedes que puxo
a revista Men's Health na portada?
a revista Men's Health na portada?
13:55
which one do you think
Men's Health magazine put on its cover?
Men's Health magazine put on its cover?
272
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2936
(Risos)
13:57
(Laughter)
273
825960
2616
14:00
"Housework Makes Her Horny.
274
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2000
"O traballo do fogar
fai que ela se excite.
fai que ela se excite.
14:03
(Not When She Does It.)"
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(Menos cando o fai ela)"
(Risos)
14:05
(Laughter)
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Ben, direi,
14:06
Now, I will say,
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14:09
just to remind the men in the audience,
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só para lembrarlles aos homes do público
que estes datos foron recollidos
durante un longo período de tempo,
durante un longo período de tempo,
14:12
these data were collected
over a really long period of time,
over a really long period of time,
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así que non quero que digan:
14:15
so I don't want listeners to say,
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"Mmm, vale, penso que vou fregar
os pratos esta noite."
os pratos esta noite."
14:18
"Hmm, OK, I think
I'll do the dishes tonight."
I'll do the dishes tonight."
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14:21
These data were collected
over a really long period of time.
over a really long period of time.
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Estes datos foron recollidos
durante un longo período de tempo.
durante un longo período de tempo.
14:25
But I think it shows something important,
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Pero creo que amosan algo importante,
14:29
that when Men's Health magazine
put it on their cover,
put it on their cover,
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cando a revista Men's Health
o puxo na portada,
o puxo na portada,
chamoulle, vaivos encantar,
"Tarefas preliminares."
"Tarefas preliminares."
14:31
they also called,
you'll love this, "Choreplay."
you'll love this, "Choreplay."
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14:35
So, what we found
is something really important,
is something really important,
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Así que o que atopamos
é algo moi importante,
é algo moi importante,
14:40
that gender equality
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que a igualdade de xénero
vai no interese de países,
14:42
is in the interest of countries,
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14:45
of companies, and of men,
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de empresas e de homes,
e dos seus fillos e das súas parellas,
14:48
and their children and their partners,
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que a igualdade de xénero
non é un xogo todo ou nada.
non é un xogo todo ou nada.
14:51
that gender equality
is not a zero-sum game.
is not a zero-sum game.
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14:53
It's not a win-lose.
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Non é un gañar ou perder.
É un gañar ou gañar para todo o mundo.
14:54
It is a win-win for everyone.
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14:58
And what we also know
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E tamén sabemos
15:00
is we cannot fully empower women and girls
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que non podemos fortalecer
totalmente as mulleres e as nenas
totalmente as mulleres e as nenas
15:04
unless we engage boys and men.
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a menos que involucremos
aos rapaces e aos homes.
aos rapaces e aos homes.
Sabémolo.
15:06
We know this.
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15:09
And my position is
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E a miña posición é
que os homes precisan as mesmas cousas
que as mulleres descubriron
que as mulleres descubriron
15:10
that men need the very things
that women have identified
that women have identified
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que precisaban para vivir as vidas
que din que queren vivir,
que din que queren vivir,
15:15
that they need to live the lives
they say they want to live
they say they want to live
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para vivir as vidas
que dicimos que queremos vivir.
que dicimos que queremos vivir.
15:18
in order to live the lives
that we say we want to live.
that we say we want to live.
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15:22
In 1915, on the eve of one
of the great suffrage demonstrations
of the great suffrage demonstrations
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En 1915, na véspera dunha
das grandes manifestacións sufraxistas
das grandes manifestacións sufraxistas
pola Quinta Avenida en Nova York,
15:27
down Fifth Avenue in New York City,
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un escritor en Nova York
escribiu nunha revista,
escribiu nunha revista,
15:29
a writer in New York
wrote an article in a magazine,
wrote an article in a magazine,
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un artigo titulado
15:33
and the title of the article was,
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"Feminismo para homes".
15:36
"Feminism for Men."
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15:39
And this was the first line
of that article:
of that article:
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E esta era a primeira liña daquel artigo:
15:42
"Feminism will make it possible
for the first time for men to be free."
for the first time for men to be free."
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"O feminismo fará posible por primeira vez
que os homes sexan libres."
que os homes sexan libres."
15:47
Thank you.
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Grazas.
(Aplausos)
15:48
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michael Kimmel - SociologistThe author of "Angry White Men," Michael Kimmel is a pre-eminent scholar of men and masculinity.
Why you should listen
Sociologist Michael Kimmel is among the leading researchers and writers on men and masculinity in the world. He's the executive director of the Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities at Stony Brook University, where he is also Distinguished University Professor of Sociology and Gender Studies.
He is the author of many books, including Manhood in America, Angry White Men, and the best seller Guyland: The Perilous World Where Boys Become Men. An activist for gender equality for more than 30 years, he was recently called "the world's preeminent male feminist" by the Guardian.
Michael Kimmel | Speaker | TED.com