TEDWomen 2015
Michael Kimmel: Why gender equality is good for everyone — men included
Michael Kimmel: Zašto je ravnopravnost spolova dobra za sve - pa i za muškarce
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Da, svi mi znamo da je to ispravno, ali Michael Kimmel govori u korist ravnopravnosti muškaraca i žena na radnom mjestu i kod kuće na iznenađujuć, duhovit i praktičan način. To nije igra na rezultat, već igra u kojoj su svi pobjednici i koja će svakome donijeti više mogućnosti i više sreće.
Michael Kimmel - Sociologist
The author of "Angry White Men," Michael Kimmel is a pre-eminent scholar of men and masculinity. Full bio
The author of "Angry White Men," Michael Kimmel is a pre-eminent scholar of men and masculinity. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm here to recruit men
to support gender equality.
to support gender equality.
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Ovdje sam kako bih pridobio muškarce
za podršku ravnopravnosti spolova.
za podršku ravnopravnosti spolova.
00:16
(Cheers)
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(Bodrenje)
00:19
Wait, wait. What?
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Čekaj, što?
00:22
What do men have to do
with gender equality?
with gender equality?
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Kakve muškarci veze imaju
s ravnopravnosti spolova?
s ravnopravnosti spolova?
00:25
Gender equality is about women, right?
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Ono se tiče žena, zar ne?
00:27
I mean, the word gender is about women.
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Ipak se riječ "spol" tiče žena.
00:32
Actually, I'm even here speaking
as a middle class white man.
as a middle class white man.
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Zapravo, ja ovdje govorim
kao bijelac srednje klase.
kao bijelac srednje klase.
00:36
Now, I wasn't always
a middle class white man.
a middle class white man.
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Nisam uvijek bio bijelac srednje klase.
00:39
It all happened for me about 30 years ago
when I was in graduate school,
when I was in graduate school,
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Za mene je sve to započelo prije
tridesetak godina kad sam bio na studiju
tridesetak godina kad sam bio na studiju
00:44
and a bunch of us graduate students
got together one day,
got together one day,
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i nekolicina nas studenata
jednog smo se dana okupili
jednog smo se dana okupili
00:48
and we said, you know,
there's an explosion
there's an explosion
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i rekli - gle, dogodila se pomama
00:50
of writing and thinking
in feminist theory,
in feminist theory,
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za pisanjem i razmišljanjem
o feminističkoj teoriji,
o feminističkoj teoriji,
00:54
but there's no courses yet.
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ali još uvijek nema kolegija o njoj.
00:56
So we did what graduate students
typically do in a situation like that.
typically do in a situation like that.
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Učinili smo ono što studenti najčešće rade
u takvoj situaciji.
u takvoj situaciji.
00:59
We said, OK, let's have a study group.
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Rekli smo - dobro, organizirajmo
grupu za učenje.
grupu za učenje.
01:02
We'll read a text, we'll talk about it,
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Pročitat ćemo tekst, raspravljati o njemu,
01:05
we'll have a potluck dinner.
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održati večeru na koju će
svatko donijeti ponešto.
svatko donijeti ponešto.
01:06
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:08
So every week,
11 women and me got together.
11 women and me got together.
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Svaki tjedan smo se 11 žena
i ja sastajali.
i ja sastajali.
01:11
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:14
We would read some text in feminist theory
and have a conversation about it.
and have a conversation about it.
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Pročitali bismo nešto o teoriji feminizma
i razgovarali o tome.
i razgovarali o tome.
01:18
And during one of our conversations,
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Tijekom jednog od razgovora,
01:20
I witnessed an interaction
that changed my life forever.
that changed my life forever.
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svjedočio sam interakciji koja mi je
zauvijek promijenila život.
zauvijek promijenila život.
01:25
It was a conversation between two women.
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Bio je to razgovor dviju žena.
01:28
One of the women was white,
and one was black.
and one was black.
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Jedna je bila bjelkinja, a druga crnkinja.
01:32
And the white woman said --
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Bjelkinja je rekla -
01:34
this is going to sound
very anachronistic now --
very anachronistic now --
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ovo će sad zvučati jako anakronično -
01:36
the white woman said, "All women
face the same oppression as women.
face the same oppression as women.
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bjelkinja je rekla: "Sve se žene suočavaju
s istim ugnjetavanjima kao žene.
s istim ugnjetavanjima kao žene.
01:42
All women are similarly
situated in patriarchy,
situated in patriarchy,
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Sve su žene u sličnom položaju
u patrijarhiji
u patrijarhiji
01:45
and therefore all women have a kind
of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."
of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."
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i zato sve žene posjeduju intuitivnu
solidarnost ili sestrinstvo."
solidarnost ili sestrinstvo."
01:50
And the black woman said,
"I'm not so sure.
"I'm not so sure.
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Crnkinja je na to rekla:
"Ja ne bih baš rekla.
"Ja ne bih baš rekla.
01:54
Let me ask you a question."
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Mogu li ti postaviti jedno pitanje?"
01:56
So the black woman
says to the white woman,
says to the white woman,
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I crnkinja je rekla bjelkinji:
01:59
"When you wake up in the morning
and you look in the mirror,
and you look in the mirror,
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"Kad se probudiš i pogledaš u ogledalo,
02:01
what do you see?"
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što vidiš?"
02:03
And the white woman said, "I see a woman."
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Bjelkinja reče: "Vidim ženu."
02:05
And the black woman said,
"You see, that's the problem for me.
"You see, that's the problem for me.
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Crnkinja odgovori: "Vidiš,
u tome je moj problem.
u tome je moj problem.
02:09
Because when I wake up in the morning
and I look in the mirror," she said,
and I look in the mirror," she said,
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Kad se ja probudim i pogledam u ogledalo,
02:12
"I see a black woman.
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vidim crnu ženu.
02:13
To me, race is visible. But to you,
race is invisible. You don't see it."
race is invisible. You don't see it."
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Meni je rasa vidljiva, ali tebi nije.
Ti ju ne vidiš."
Ti ju ne vidiš."
02:19
And then she said
something really startling.
something really startling.
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Zatim je rekla
nešto zaista iznenađujuće:
nešto zaista iznenađujuće:
02:22
She said, "That's how privilege works.
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"Privilegije tako funkcioniraju -
02:25
Privilege is invisible
to those who have it."
to those who have it."
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nevidljive su onima koji ih imaju."
02:28
It is a luxury, I will say
to the white people sitting in this room,
to the white people sitting in this room,
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Govorim bijelcima u ovoj sali, luksuz je
02:31
not to have to think about race
every split second of our lives.
every split second of our lives.
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ne morati razmišljati o rasi
svake sekunde svog postojanja.
svake sekunde svog postojanja.
02:35
Privilege is invisible
to those who have it.
to those who have it.
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Privilegija je nevidljiva
onima koji je imaju.
onima koji je imaju.
02:39
Now remember, I was
the only man in this group,
the only man in this group,
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Znate, ja sam bio jedini muškarac u grupi,
02:41
so when I witnessed this, I went, "Oh no."
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pa čuvši to, pomislih: "O ne!"
02:44
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:46
And somebody said,
"Well what was that reaction?"
"Well what was that reaction?"
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Zatim je netko rekao:
"Kakva je to reakcija bila?"
"Kakva je to reakcija bila?"
02:48
And I said, "Well, when I wake up
in the morning and I look in the mirror,
in the morning and I look in the mirror,
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Odgovorih: "Pa kad se ja probudim
i pogledam u ogledalo,
i pogledam u ogledalo,
02:52
I see a human being.
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vidim ljudsko biće.
02:54
I'm kind of the generic person.
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Pomalo sam običan tip osobe.
02:57
You know, I'm a middle class white man.
I have no race, no class, no gender.
I have no race, no class, no gender.
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Znate, bijeli muškarac srednje klase.
Nemam ni rase ni klase ni spola.
Nemam ni rase ni klase ni spola.
03:01
I'm universally generalizable."
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Može me se univerzalno generalizirati."
03:03
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:04
So I like to think that was the moment
I became a middle class white man,
I became a middle class white man,
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Držim da sam u tom trenutku
postao bijelac srednje klase,
postao bijelac srednje klase,
03:08
that class and race and gender
were not about other people,
were not about other people,
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shvatio sam da se klasa, rasa
i spol ne tiču drugih ljudi,
i spol ne tiču drugih ljudi,
03:12
they were about me.
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nego mene.
03:14
I had to start thinking about them,
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Morao sam početi razmišljati o njima
03:16
and it had been privilege that had
kept it invisible to me for so long.
kept it invisible to me for so long.
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i to je toliko dugo bila
privilegija meni nevidljiva.
privilegija meni nevidljiva.
03:21
Now, I wish I could tell you
this story ends 30 years ago
this story ends 30 years ago
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Volio bih vam reći da je
ta priča završila prije 30 g.
ta priča završila prije 30 g.
03:23
in that little discussion group,
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u toj maloj skupini za raspravu,
03:25
but I was reminded of it quite recently
at my university where I teach.
at my university where I teach.
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ali na to su me nedavno podsjetili
na sveučilištu na kojem predajem.
na sveučilištu na kojem predajem.
03:29
I have a colleague, and she and I
both teach the sociology of gender course
both teach the sociology of gender course
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Imam kolegicu i predajemo
kolegij sociologije spola
kolegij sociologije spola
03:33
on alternate semesters.
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tijekom različitih semestara.
03:35
So she gives a guest lecture
for me when I teach.
for me when I teach.
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Ona dolazi kao gost predavač
kad ja predajem,
kad ja predajem,
03:37
I give a guest lecture
for her when she teaches.
for her when she teaches.
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a ja dolazim kao gost predavač
kad ona predaje.
kad ona predaje.
03:39
So I walk into her class
to give a guest lecture,
to give a guest lecture,
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Dakle, dolazim na njezinu nastavu
kao gost predavač,
kao gost predavač,
03:43
about 300 students in the room,
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u prostoriji je tristotinjak studenata
03:45
and as I walk in, one of the students
looks up and says,
looks up and says,
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i kako ulazim, jedan od studenata
podigne glavu i kaže:
podigne glavu i kaže:
03:48
"Oh, finally, an objective opinion."
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"Napokon! Objektivno mišljenje!"
03:52
All that semester, whenever
my colleague opened her mouth,
my colleague opened her mouth,
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Cijeli taj semestar kad god bi
moja kolegica otvorila usta,
moja kolegica otvorila usta,
03:56
what my students saw was a woman.
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moji su studenti vidjeli ženu.
03:58
I mean, if you were to say to my students,
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Da kažete mojim studentima
04:00
"There is structural inequality
based on gender in the United States,"
based on gender in the United States,"
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da u SAD-u postoji strukturalna
neravnopravnost na temelju spola,
neravnopravnost na temelju spola,
04:04
they'd say, "Well of course
you'd say that.
you'd say that.
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rekli bi vam: "Naravno da to govorite.
04:06
You're a woman. You're biased."
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Žena ste. Pristrani ste."
04:07
When I say it, they go,
"Wow, is that interesting.
"Wow, is that interesting.
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Kad ja to kažem, oni pomisle: "Zanimljivo!
04:10
Is that going to be on the test?
How do you spell 'structural'?"
How do you spell 'structural'?"
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Hoće li to biti na testu?
Kako se piše 'strukturalno'?"
Kako se piše 'strukturalno'?"
04:13
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:15
So I hope you all can see,
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Nadam se da sad svi vi vidite
04:17
this is what objectivity looks like.
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kako objektivnost izgleda.
04:20
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
04:24
Disembodied Western rationality.
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Bestjelesna zapadnjačka racionalnost.
04:27
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:30
And that, by the way, is why I think
men so often wear ties.
men so often wear ties.
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Usput budi rečeno, mislim da
zbog toga muškarci nose kravate.
zbog toga muškarci nose kravate.
04:34
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:36
Because if you are going to embody
disembodied Western rationality,
disembodied Western rationality,
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Ako planirate utjeloviti bestjelesnu
zapadnjačku racionalnost,
zapadnjačku racionalnost,
04:40
you need a signifier,
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treba vam neki znak,
04:42
and what could be a better signifier
of disembodied Western rationality
of disembodied Western rationality
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a ne postoji bolji znak
bestjelesne zapadnjačke racionalnosti
bestjelesne zapadnjačke racionalnosti
04:46
than a garment that at one end is a noose
and the other end points to the genitals?
and the other end points to the genitals?
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od predmeta koji je s jedne strane omča,
a s druge ukazuje na genitalije.
a s druge ukazuje na genitalije.
04:50
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
04:57
That is mind-body dualism right there.
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To je dualizam duha i tijela.
05:04
So making gender visible to men
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Spol mora biti vidljiv muškarcima,
05:08
is the first step to engaging men
to support gender equality.
to support gender equality.
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a to je prvi korak u njihovu uključivanju
u podržavanje ravnopravnosti spolova.
u podržavanje ravnopravnosti spolova.
05:13
Now, when men first hear
about gender equality,
about gender equality,
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Kad muškarci tek čuju
za ravnopravnost spolova,
za ravnopravnost spolova,
05:15
when they first start thinking about it,
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kad počnu razmišljati o tome,
05:17
they often think, many men think,
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puno muškaraca nerijetko pomisli
05:19
well, that's right,
that's fair, that's just,
that's fair, that's just,
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da je to pravedno, pošteno,
05:24
that's the ethical imperative.
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da je to etički imperativ,
05:27
But not all men.
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ali ne svi muškarci.
05:28
Some men think --
the lightning bolt goes off,
the lightning bolt goes off,
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Neki pomisle - upali im se lampica
05:31
and they go, "Oh my God,
yes, gender equality,"
yes, gender equality,"
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pa kažu: "Pa naravno!
Ravnopravnost spolova"
Ravnopravnost spolova"
05:34
and they will immediately begin
to mansplain to you your oppression.
to mansplain to you your oppression.
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i odmah vam počnu
krivo tumačiti vaše ugnjetavanje.
krivo tumačiti vaše ugnjetavanje.
05:39
They see supporting gender equality
something akin to the cavalry,
something akin to the cavalry,
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Njima je ravnopravnost spolova
slična mučeništvu:
slična mučeništvu:
05:44
like, "Thanks very much for bringing this
to our attention, ladies,
to our attention, ladies,
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"Dame, hvala vam što ste nam ukazale
na ovaj problem,
na ovaj problem,
05:47
we'll take it from here."
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mi preuzimamo odavde",
05:49
This results in a syndrome that I like
to call 'premature self-congratulation.'
to call 'premature self-congratulation.'
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što rezultira sindromom koji nazivam
"preuranjenom samohvalom".
"preuranjenom samohvalom".
05:53
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
05:58
There's another group, though,
that actively resists gender equality,
that actively resists gender equality,
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Postoji i druga grupa muškaraca koji se
aktivno odupiru ravnopravnosti spolova
aktivno odupiru ravnopravnosti spolova
06:02
that sees gender equality
as something that is detrimental to men.
as something that is detrimental to men.
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i koji tu ravnopravnost vide kao nešto
štetno za muški rod.
štetno za muški rod.
06:07
I was on a TV talk show
opposite four white men.
opposite four white men.
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U TV-emisiji bio sam nasuprot
četvorice bijelih muškaraca.
četvorice bijelih muškaraca.
06:11
This is the beginning of the book
I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'
I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'
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To je početak knjige koju sam napisao,
"Ljuti bijeli muškarci".
"Ljuti bijeli muškarci".
06:14
These were four angry white men
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Ta četiri ljuta bijela muškarca
06:16
who believed that they,
white men in America,
white men in America,
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vjerovala su da su oni
kao bijeli Amerikanci
kao bijeli Amerikanci
06:20
were the victims of reverse discrimination
in the workplace.
in the workplace.
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bili žrtve obrnute diskriminacije
na radnom mjestu.
na radnom mjestu.
06:25
And they all told stories
about how they were qualified for jobs,
about how they were qualified for jobs,
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Svi su pričali o tome kako su bili
kvalificirani za poslove,
kvalificirani za poslove,
06:28
qualified for promotions,
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promaknuća,
06:30
they didn't get them,
they were really angry.
they were really angry.
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ali nisu ih dobili,
pa su bili strašno ljuti.
pa su bili strašno ljuti.
06:32
And the reason I'm telling you this
is I want you to hear the title
is I want you to hear the title
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Ovo vam govorim jer želim
da čujete naziv
da čujete naziv
06:35
of this particular show.
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ove konkretne emisije.
06:37
It was a quote from one of the men,
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Bio je to citat jednog od muškaraca,
06:39
and the quote was,
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a glasio je:
06:40
"A Black Woman Stole My Job."
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"Crnkinja mi je ukrala posao."
06:44
And they all told their stories,
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Svi su ispričali svoje priče -
06:45
qualified for jobs,
qualified for promotions,
qualified for promotions,
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bili su kvalificirani
za poslove i promaknuća,
za poslove i promaknuća,
06:48
didn't get it, really angry.
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nisu ih dobili,
naljutili se.
naljutili se.
06:49
And then it was my turn to speak,
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Onda je došao moj red da nešto kažem,
06:51
and I said, "I have
just one question for you guys,
just one question for you guys,
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pa sam rekao: "Momci,
za vas imam samo jedno pitanje,
za vas imam samo jedno pitanje,
06:53
and it's about the title of the show,
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a tiče se naziva emisije -
06:56
'A Black Woman Stole My Job.'
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'Crnkinja mi je ukrala posao'.
06:58
Actually, it's about
one word in the title.
one word in the title.
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Točnije, tiče se jedne riječi u nazivu.
07:01
I want to know about the word 'my.'
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Zanima me riječ "mi".
07:03
Where did you get the idea
it was your job?
it was your job?
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Odakle vam to da je posao vaš?
07:07
Why isn't the title of the show,
'A Black Woman Got the Job?'
'A Black Woman Got the Job?'
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Zašto naziv ne glasi
'Crnkinja je dobila taj posao'?
'Crnkinja je dobila taj posao'?
07:10
or 'A Black Woman Got A Job?'"
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Ili 'Crnkinja je dobila posao'?"
07:13
Because without confronting
men's sense of entitlement,
men's sense of entitlement,
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Ako se ne usprotivimo muškoj ideji
bogomdanih prava,
bogomdanih prava,
07:16
I don't think we'll ever understand
why so many men resist gender equality.
why so many men resist gender equality.
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nikad nećemo shvatiti zašto se toliki
muškarci odupiru ravnopravnosti spolova.
muškarci odupiru ravnopravnosti spolova.
07:20
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
07:27
Look, we think this
is a level playing field,
is a level playing field,
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Mislimo da je igra ravnopravna,
07:30
so any policy that tilts it
even a little bit,
even a little bit,
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pa kad je propis okreće
u bilo kojem smjeru,
u bilo kojem smjeru,
07:32
we think, "Oh my God,
water's rushing uphill.
water's rushing uphill.
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pomislimo: "Jao, sve je naopako -
07:34
It's reverse discrimination against us."
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obrnuta diskriminacija protiv nas."
07:36
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:37
So let me be very clear:
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Bit ću jasan:
07:39
white men in Europe and the United States
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bijelci u Europi i SAD-u
07:42
are the beneficiaries of the single
greatest affirmative action program
greatest affirmative action program
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uživatelji su najvećeg
afirmativnog akcijskog programa
afirmativnog akcijskog programa
07:46
in the history of the world.
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u povijesti svijeta
07:48
It is called "the history of the world."
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koji se zove "povijest svijeta".
07:50
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
07:56
So, now I've established
some of the obstacles to engaging men,
some of the obstacles to engaging men,
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Sad smo utvrdili neke osnovne prepreke
u uključivanju muškaraca,
u uključivanju muškaraca,
08:01
but why should we support gender equality?
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ali zašto bismo trebali podržati
ravnopravnost spolova?
ravnopravnost spolova?
08:03
Of course, it's fair,
it's right and it's just.
it's right and it's just.
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Naravno, pošteno je, ispravno i pravedno,
08:07
But more than that,
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ali to nije sve!
08:08
gender equality is also
in our interest as men.
in our interest as men.
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Ravnopravnost spolova i muškarcima je
u interesu.
u interesu.
08:13
If you listen to what men say
about what they want in their lives,
about what they want in their lives,
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Ako slušate što muškarci govore
da žele u životu, shvatit ćete
da žele u životu, shvatit ćete
08:18
gender equality is actually a way
for us to get the lives we want to live.
for us to get the lives we want to live.
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da je ravnopravnost spolova način
da dođemo do života koje želimo živjeti.
da dođemo do života koje želimo živjeti.
08:23
Gender equality is good for countries.
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Ravnopravnost spolova dobra je za države.
08:27
It turns out, according to most studies,
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Prema većini studija, ispada da su
08:31
that those countries
that are the most gender equal
that are the most gender equal
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one države s najvišom stopom
ravnopravnosti spolova
ravnopravnosti spolova
08:34
are also the countries that score highest
on the happiness scale.
on the happiness scale.
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ujedno i najsretnije države,
08:39
And that's not just because
they're all in Europe.
they're all in Europe.
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a to nije samo zato što su
sve one u Europi.
sve one u Europi.
08:41
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:42
Even within Europe, those countries
that are more gender equal
that are more gender equal
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Čak i u Europi one zemlje koje
imaju višu razinu ravnopravnosti spolova
imaju višu razinu ravnopravnosti spolova
08:46
also have the highest levels of happiness.
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imaju i najvišu razinu sreće.
08:50
It is also good for companies.
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Dobra je i za tvrtke.
08:52
Research by Catalyst and others
has shown conclusively
has shown conclusively
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Istraživanje Catalysta i suradnika
uvjerljivo je dokazalo
uvjerljivo je dokazalo
08:56
that the more gender-equal companies are,
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da što tvrtke imaju višu stopu
ravnopravnosti spolova,
ravnopravnosti spolova,
09:00
the better it is for workers,
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to bolje za radnike
09:04
the happier their labor force is.
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radna snaga je sretnija.
09:06
They have lower job turnover.
They have lower levels of attrition.
They have lower levels of attrition.
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Zaposlenici rjeđe daju otkaze,
manje su sklone slabljenju,
manje su sklone slabljenju,
09:10
They have an easier time recruiting.
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lakše zapošljavaju nove ljude,
09:12
They have higher rates of retention,
higher job satisfaction,
higher job satisfaction,
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imaju više stope zadržavanja,
zadovoljstva poslom,
zadovoljstva poslom,
09:15
higher rates of productivity.
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produktivnosti.
09:17
So the question I'm often asked
in companies is,
in companies is,
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U tvrtkama me često pitaju:
09:20
"Boy, this gender equality thing,
that's really going to be expensive, huh?"
that's really going to be expensive, huh?"
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"Ta ravnopravnost spolova će zaista
biti skupa, zar ne?"
biti skupa, zar ne?"
09:24
And I say, "Oh no, in fact,
what you have to start calculating
what you have to start calculating
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Odgovorim: "Ma ne, zapravo
trebate početi računati
trebate početi računati
09:28
is how much gender inequality
is already costing you.
is already costing you.
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koliko vas neravnopravnost spolova
već sad košta.
već sad košta.
09:32
It is extremely expensive."
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Užasno je skupa."
09:34
So it is good for business.
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Dakle, dobra je za posao.
09:37
And the other thing is, it's good for men.
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I još nešto - dobra je i za muškarce.
09:41
It is good for the kind of lives
we want to live,
we want to live,
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Dobra je za živote kakve želimo živjeti
09:44
because young men especially
have changed enormously,
have changed enormously,
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jer su se prvenstveno mladi muškarci
znatno promijenili
znatno promijenili
09:48
and they want to have lives
that are animated
that are animated
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i žele živjeti živote ispunjene
09:51
by terrific relationships
with their children.
with their children.
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sjajnim vezama sa svojom djecom.
09:53
They expect their partners,
their spouses, their wives,
their spouses, their wives,
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Očekuju da njihovi bračni partneri,
odnosno žene
odnosno žene
09:57
to work outside the home
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rade van
obiteljskog doma
obiteljskog doma
09:58
and be just as committed
to their careers as they are.
to their careers as they are.
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i da budu jednako posvećene
svojim karijerama kao i oni sami.
svojim karijerama kao i oni sami.
10:02
I was talking, to give you
an illustration of this change --
an illustration of this change --
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Da vam ilustriram ovu promjenu.
10:06
Some of you may remember this.
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Neki od vas možda se sjećaju ovoga.
10:08
When I was a lot younger,
there was a riddle that was posed to us.
there was a riddle that was posed to us.
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Kad sam bio puno mlađi, postojala je
zagonetka koja nam je postavljana.
zagonetka koja nam je postavljana.
10:13
Some of you may wince
to remember this riddle.
to remember this riddle.
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Neki od vas možda će se naježiti
kad je čuju.
kad je čuju.
10:15
This riddle went something like this.
193
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Glasila je ovako nekako.
10:18
A man and his son
are driving on the freeway,
are driving on the freeway,
194
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Otac i sin voze se autocestom
10:21
and they're in a terrible accident,
195
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1976
i dožive strašnu nesreću.
10:23
and the father is killed,
196
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2256
Otac odmah umire,
10:25
and the son is brought
to the hospital emergency room,
to the hospital emergency room,
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a sina odvoze na hitnu.
10:28
and as they're bringing the son
into the hospital emergency room,
into the hospital emergency room,
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Dok ga uvoze u sobu za hitan prijem,
10:32
the emergency room attending physician
sees the boy and says,
sees the boy and says,
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doktor pogleda dječaka i kaže:
10:35
"Oh, I can't treat him, that's my son."
200
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"Ne mogu ga liječiti, to mi je sin."
10:38
How is this possible?
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Kako je to moguće?
10:40
We were flummoxed by this.
202
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Ovo nas je užasno zbunjivalo.
10:42
We could not figure this out.
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Nismo imali pojma koji je odgovor.
10:44
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
10:46
Well, I decided to do a little experiment
with my 16-year old son.
with my 16-year old son.
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Odlučio sam izvesti mali eksperiment
sa svojim 16-ogodišnjim sinom.
sa svojim 16-ogodišnjim sinom.
10:49
He had a bunch of his friends
hanging out at the house
hanging out at the house
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Nedavno su mu prijatelji
kod nas dolazili
kod nas dolazili
10:53
watching a game on TV recently.
207
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gledati utakmicu.
10:55
So I decided I would pose
this riddle to them,
this riddle to them,
208
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Odlučio sam im postaviti ovu zagonetku,
10:57
just to see, to gauge the level of change.
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samo da vidim koliko se toga promijenilo.
11:00
Well, 16-year-old boys,
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Šesnaestogodišnji dječaci
11:02
they immediately turned to me
and said, "It's his mom." Right?
and said, "It's his mom." Right?
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odmah su rekli: "To mu je mama, zar ne?"
11:06
No problem. Just like that.
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Bez problema. Samo tako.
11:08
Except for my son, who said,
"Well, he could have two dads."
"Well, he could have two dads."
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Osim mog sina koji je rekao:
"Pa možda ima dva oca."
"Pa možda ima dva oca."
11:11
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(Smijeh) (Pljesak)
11:17
That's an index, an indicator
of how things have changed.
of how things have changed.
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To je pokazatelj
koliko se toga promijenilo.
koliko se toga promijenilo.
11:21
Younger men today expect
to be able to balance work and family.
to be able to balance work and family.
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Mlađi muškarci današnjice očekuju mogućnost
održavanja ravnoteže između braka i obitelji.
održavanja ravnoteže između braka i obitelji.
11:26
They want to be dual-career,
dual-carer couples.
dual-carer couples.
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Žele biti par s dualnim karijerama.
11:32
They want to be able to balance
work and family with their partners.
work and family with their partners.
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Žele biti u mogućnosti balansirati
posao i obitelj sa svojim partnerima.
posao i obitelj sa svojim partnerima.
11:35
They want to be involved fathers.
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Žele biti očevi uključeni
u odgoj djece.
u odgoj djece.
11:37
Now, it turns out
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Ispada da što
11:39
that the more egalitarian
our relationships,
our relationships,
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vaša veza više potiče jednakost,
11:43
the happier both partners are.
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to su sretnija oba partnera.
11:46
Data from psychologists and sociologists
are quite persuasive here.
are quite persuasive here.
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Podaci psihologa i sociologa
ovdje su prilično uvjerljivi.
ovdje su prilično uvjerljivi.
11:50
I think we have the persuasive numbers,
the data, to prove to men
the data, to prove to men
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Mislim da imamo uvjerljive brojke,
podatke, koji će muškarcima dokazati
podatke, koji će muškarcima dokazati
11:56
that gender equality
is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.
is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.
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da ravnopravnost spolova nije igra
na rezultat, već je to pobjeda za sve.
na rezultat, već je to pobjeda za sve.
12:00
Here's what the data show.
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Ovo podaci dokazuju.
12:02
Now, when men begin
the process of engaging
the process of engaging
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Kad se muškarci uključe u proces
12:08
with balancing work and family,
228
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balansiranja između posla i obitelji,
12:09
we often have two phrases
that we use to describe what we do.
that we use to describe what we do.
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često imamo dvije fraze kojima
opisujemo što činimo.
opisujemo što činimo.
12:13
We pitch in and we help out.
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2536
Doprinosimo i pomažemo.
12:15
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
12:16
And I'm going to propose
something a little bit more radical,
something a little bit more radical,
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Predložit ću nešto malo radikalnije,
12:19
one word: "share."
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jednu riječ: dijeljenje.
12:21
(Laughter)
234
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(Smijeh)
12:22
Because here's what the data show:
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Ovo nam pokazuju podaci:
12:24
when men share housework and childcare,
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kad dijele kućne poslove
i brigu o djeci,
i brigu o djeci,
12:26
their children do better in school.
237
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2080
djeca su im bolja u školi.
12:29
Their children have lower rates
of absenteeism,
of absenteeism,
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2616
Djeca im manje izostaju iz škole,
12:32
higher rates of achievement.
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1536
imaju veće stope uspjeha.
12:33
They are less likely
to be diagnosed with ADHD.
to be diagnosed with ADHD.
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2736
Rjeđe im se dijagnosticira ADHD.
12:36
They are less likely
to see a child psychiatrist.
to see a child psychiatrist.
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2856
Rjeđe posjećuju dječjeg psihologa.
12:39
They are less likely
to be put on medication.
to be put on medication.
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Rjeđe koriste lijekove.
12:42
So when men share housework and childcare,
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Dakle, kad muškarci dijele
kućne poslove i brigu o djeci,
kućne poslove i brigu o djeci,
12:45
their children are happier and healthier,
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djeca su im sretnija i zdravija,
12:48
and men want this.
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a to muškarci i žele.
12:51
When men share housework and childcare,
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Kad muškarci dijele kućne poslove
i brigu o djeci,
i brigu o djeci,
12:53
their wives are happier. Duh.
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2640
žene su im sretnije. Normalno!
12:57
Not only that, their wives are healthier.
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Ali ne samo to - i zdravije su.
13:00
Their wives are less likely
to see a therapist,
to see a therapist,
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Žene im rjeđe idu psihologu,
13:02
less likely to be diagnosed
with depression,
with depression,
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2048
rjeđe im je dijagnosticirana depresija,
13:04
less likely to be put on medication,
more likely to go to the gym,
more likely to go to the gym,
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3769
rjeđe koriste lijekove,
češće idu u teretanu
češće idu u teretanu
13:08
report higher levels
of marital satisfaction.
of marital satisfaction.
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i tvrde da im je razina bračne sreće viša.
13:11
So when men share housework and childcare,
253
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2016
Kad dijele te obveze,
13:13
their wives are happier and healthier,
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1856
žene su im sretnije i zdravije,
13:15
and men certainly want this as well.
255
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a muškarci definitivno i to žele.
13:18
When men share housework and childcare,
256
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Kad dijele kućanske poslove
i brigu o djeci,
i brigu o djeci,
13:20
the men are healthier.
257
788960
1736
i muškarci su zdraviji.
13:22
They smoke less, drink less,
take recreational drugs less often.
take recreational drugs less often.
258
790720
3816
Manje puše, manje piju,
rjeđe koriste rekreacijske droge.
rjeđe koriste rekreacijske droge.
13:26
They are less likely to go to the ER
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2696
Rjeđe završe na hitnom prijemu,
13:29
but more like to go to a doctor
for routine screenings.
for routine screenings.
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ali češće idu doktoru
na rutinske preglede.
na rutinske preglede.
13:32
They are less likely to see a therapist,
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1936
Rjeđe idu psihologu,
13:34
less likely to be diagnosed
with depression,
with depression,
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rjeđe im je dijagnosticirana despresija,
13:36
less likely to be taking
prescription medication.
prescription medication.
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rjeđe koriste lijekove.
13:39
So when men share housework and childcare,
264
807080
2016
Kad dijele te obveze,
13:41
the men are happier and healthier.
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3176
i muškarci su sretniji i zdraviji.
13:44
And who wouldn't want that?
266
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A tko to ne bi želio?
13:46
And finally,
267
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Konačno,
13:47
when men share housework and childcare,
268
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1936
kad muškarci dijele sve te obveze,
13:49
they have more sex.
269
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više vode ljubav.
13:51
(Laughter)
270
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(Smijeh)
13:52
Now, of these four fascinating findings,
271
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Koja od ova četiri fascinantna otkrića
13:55
which one do you think
Men's Health magazine put on its cover?
Men's Health magazine put on its cover?
272
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2936
mislite da će Men's Health
staviti na naslovnicu?
staviti na naslovnicu?
13:57
(Laughter)
273
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2616
(Smijeh)
14:00
"Housework Makes Her Horny.
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2000
"Kućanski je poslovi uzbuđuju.
14:03
(Not When She Does It.)"
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(Ali ne kad ih ona obavlja)"
14:05
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:06
Now, I will say,
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Spomenut ću,
14:09
just to remind the men in the audience,
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tek toliko da podsjetim muškarce
u publici,
u publici,
14:12
these data were collected
over a really long period of time,
over a really long period of time,
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da su se ovi podaci skupljali
tijekom dugog vremenskog perioda,
tijekom dugog vremenskog perioda,
14:15
so I don't want listeners to say,
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pa ne želim da slušatelji kažu:
14:18
"Hmm, OK, I think
I'll do the dishes tonight."
I'll do the dishes tonight."
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"Hmm, dobro, mislim da ću
večeras oprati suđe."
večeras oprati suđe."
14:21
These data were collected
over a really long period of time.
over a really long period of time.
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Ovi su podaci skupljani tijekom
dugog vremenskog perioda,
dugog vremenskog perioda,
14:25
But I think it shows something important,
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ali mislim da pokazuju nešto važno.
14:29
that when Men's Health magazine
put it on their cover,
put it on their cover,
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Kad je časopis Men's Health
ovo stavio na naslovnicu,
ovo stavio na naslovnicu,
14:31
they also called,
you'll love this, "Choreplay."
you'll love this, "Choreplay."
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nazvali su je, svidjet će vam se:
obvezna predigra.
obvezna predigra.
14:35
So, what we found
is something really important,
is something really important,
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Otkrili smo nešto zaista važno -
14:40
that gender equality
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ravnopravnost spolova
14:42
is in the interest of countries,
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u interesu je država,
14:45
of companies, and of men,
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tvrtki, muškaraca,
14:48
and their children and their partners,
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njihove djece i partnera,
14:51
that gender equality
is not a zero-sum game.
is not a zero-sum game.
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ravnopravnost spolova
nije igra na rezultat.
nije igra na rezultat.
14:53
It's not a win-lose.
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Nema pobjednika
i gubitnika.
i gubitnika.
14:54
It is a win-win for everyone.
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Svi su pobjednici.
14:58
And what we also know
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A znamo i
15:00
is we cannot fully empower women and girls
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da ne možemo u potpunosti
osnažiti žene i djevojke
osnažiti žene i djevojke
15:04
unless we engage boys and men.
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ako u to ne uključimo
i dječake i muškarce.
i dječake i muškarce.
15:06
We know this.
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Znamo to.
15:09
And my position is
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Ja mislim
15:10
that men need the very things
that women have identified
that women have identified
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da muškarci trebaju sve ono što žene tvrde
15:15
that they need to live the lives
they say they want to live
they say they want to live
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da im treba da žive život kakav
navodno žele živjeti
navodno žele živjeti
15:18
in order to live the lives
that we say we want to live.
that we say we want to live.
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kako bismo živjeli živote kakve
navodno želimo živjeti.
navodno želimo živjeti.
15:22
In 1915, on the eve of one
of the great suffrage demonstrations
of the great suffrage demonstrations
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Godine 1915. na večer jedne
od najvećih sufražetskih demonstracija
od najvećih sufražetskih demonstracija
15:27
down Fifth Avenue in New York City,
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na Petoj aveniji u New Yorku
15:29
a writer in New York
wrote an article in a magazine,
wrote an article in a magazine,
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njujorški pisac napisao je
članak za časopis
članak za časopis
15:33
and the title of the article was,
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čiji je naslov glasio:
15:36
"Feminism for Men."
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"Feminizam za muškarce".
15:39
And this was the first line
of that article:
of that article:
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Ovo je bila prva rečenica članka:
15:42
"Feminism will make it possible
for the first time for men to be free."
for the first time for men to be free."
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"Feminizam će muškarcima omogućiti
da po prvi put budu slobodni."
da po prvi put budu slobodni."
15:47
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
15:48
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michael Kimmel - SociologistThe author of "Angry White Men," Michael Kimmel is a pre-eminent scholar of men and masculinity.
Why you should listen
Sociologist Michael Kimmel is among the leading researchers and writers on men and masculinity in the world. He's the executive director of the Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities at Stony Brook University, where he is also Distinguished University Professor of Sociology and Gender Studies.
He is the author of many books, including Manhood in America, Angry White Men, and the best seller Guyland: The Perilous World Where Boys Become Men. An activist for gender equality for more than 30 years, he was recently called "the world's preeminent male feminist" by the Guardian.
Michael Kimmel | Speaker | TED.com