TED2014
Barry Schwartz: The way we think about work is broken
Barry Schwartz: Način na koji razmišljamo o radu je pokvaren
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Zašto je neki rad zadovoljavajući? Osim plaće, postoje neopipljivi razlozi koji to vrednuju, predlaže Barry Schwart, a koje naš trenutni način razmišljanja o radu ignorira. Vrijeme je da prestanemo o radnicima razmišljati kao o zupčanicima na kotaču.
Barry Schwartz - Psychologist
Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom. Full bio
Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Today I'm going to talk about work.
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Danas ću pričati o poslu.
00:15
And the question I want to ask
and answer is this:
and answer is this:
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I pitanje koje želim postaviti i na njega odgovoriti je:
00:18
"Why do we work?"
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"Zašto radimo?"
00:21
Why do we drag ourselves
out of bed every morning
out of bed every morning
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Zašto se svakoga jutra
izvlačimo iz kreveta,
izvlačimo iz kreveta,
00:25
instead of living our lives
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umjesto da živimo svoje živote
00:27
just filled with bouncing from one
TED-like adventure to another?
TED-like adventure to another?
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ispunjene samo izmijenjivanjem
avantura o kakvima se čuje na TED-u?
avantura o kakvima se čuje na TED-u?
00:32
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:34
You may be asking yourselves
that very question.
that very question.
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Možda se pitate baš to pitanje.
00:37
Now, I know of course,
we have to make a living,
we have to make a living,
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Znam da moramo zarađivati za život,
00:39
but nobody in this room thinks
that that's the answer to the question,
that that's the answer to the question,
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ali nitko u ovoj prostoriji ne misli
da postoji odgovor na pitanje
da postoji odgovor na pitanje
00:43
"Why do we work?"
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"Zašto radimo?"
00:44
For folks in this room,
the work we do is challenging,
the work we do is challenging,
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Za sve u ovoj prostoriji,posao
koji radimo je izazovan,
koji radimo je izazovan,
00:48
it's engaging, it's stimulating,
it's meaningful.
it's meaningful.
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privlačan,stimulirajuć,značajan.
00:52
And if we're lucky,
it might even be important.
it might even be important.
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I ako smo te sreće,čak i važan.
00:55
So, we wouldn't work
if we didn't get paid,
if we didn't get paid,
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Dakle,ne bismo radili da nam ne plaćaju,
00:57
but that's not why we do what we do.
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ali to nije razlog zašto radimo
to što radimo.
to što radimo.
01:00
And in general,
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I općenito,
01:01
I think we think that material rewards
are a pretty bad reason
are a pretty bad reason
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smatram da mislimo da su
materijalne nagrade dosta loš razlog
materijalne nagrade dosta loš razlog
01:04
for doing the work that we do.
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da radimo to što radimo.
01:06
When we say of somebody
that he's "in it for the money,"
that he's "in it for the money,"
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Kad kažemo da netko nešto radi zbog novca,
01:10
we are not just being descriptive.
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ne opisujemo samo.
01:13
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:14
Now, I think this is totally obvious,
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Mislim da je to potpuno očito,
01:16
but the very obviousness of it
raises what is for me
raises what is for me
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ali upravo očitost toga u meni postavlja
01:19
an incredibly profound question.
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to iznimno duboko pitanje.
01:21
Why, if this is so obvious,
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Zašto,ako je tako očito,
01:24
why is it that for the overwhelming
majority of people on the planet,
majority of people on the planet,
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za večinu ljudi na ovom svijetu
01:30
the work they do
has none of the characteristics
has none of the characteristics
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posao koji rade nema niti jednu karakteristiku
01:34
that get us up and out of bed
and off to the office every morning?
and off to the office every morning?
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koja bi nas svako jutro probudila,
digla iz kreveta i odvela u ured?
digla iz kreveta i odvela u ured?
01:38
How is it that we allow
the majority of people on the planet
the majority of people on the planet
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Zašto dopuštamo većini ljudi na svijetu
01:42
to do work that is monotonous,
meaningless and soul-deadening?
meaningless and soul-deadening?
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da rade monoton,beznačajan posao,
posao koji ubija dušu?
posao koji ubija dušu?
01:47
Why is it that as capitalism developed,
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Zašto je s ravojem kapitalizma
01:50
it created a mode of production,
of goods and services,
of goods and services,
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nastao način proizvodnje dobara i usluga
01:53
in which all the nonmaterial satisfactions
that might come from work were eliminated?
that might come from work were eliminated?
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u kojem su sva nematerijalna zadovoljstva
koja mogu proizaći iz posla isključena?
koja mogu proizaći iz posla isključena?
02:00
Workers who do this kind of work,
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Radnici koji rade te poslove,
02:02
whether they do it in factories,
in call centers,
in call centers,
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bilo da rade u tvornicama,
pozivnim centrima
pozivnim centrima
02:05
or in fulfillment warehouses,
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ili skladištima,
02:07
do it for pay.
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rade ih za plaću.
02:09
There is certainly no other earthly reason
to do what they do except for pay.
to do what they do except for pay.
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Zasigurno ne postoji niti jedan drugi
zemaljski razlog zašto,osim zbog plaće.
zemaljski razlog zašto,osim zbog plaće.
02:15
So the question is, "Why?"
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Dakle,pitanje je "Zašto?"
02:18
And here's the answer:
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I evo odgovora:
02:20
the answer is technology.
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odgovor je tehnologija.
02:23
Now, I know, I know --
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OK,znam,znam-
02:24
yeah, yeah, yeah, technology, automation
screws people, blah blah --
screws people, blah blah --
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da,da,da,tehnologija,
automatizacija uništava ljude,bla bla-
automatizacija uništava ljude,bla bla-
02:28
that's not what I mean.
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to nije ono na što mislim.
02:29
I'm not talking about
the kind of technology
the kind of technology
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Ne mislim na tu vrstu tehnologije
02:32
that has enveloped our lives,
and that people come to TED to hear about.
and that people come to TED to hear about.
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koja je obuzela naše živote
i o kojoj ljudi dolaze pričati na TED.
i o kojoj ljudi dolaze pričati na TED.
02:36
I'm not talking about
the technology of things,
the technology of things,
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Ne pričam o tehnologiji stvari,
02:39
profound though that is.
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iako je to duboka tema.
02:41
I'm talking about another technology.
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Govorim o drugoj tehnologiji.
02:43
I'm talking about the technology of ideas.
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Govorim o tehnologiji ideja.
02:47
I call it, "idea technology" --
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Zovem ju "idejna tehnologija"-
02:49
how clever of me.
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kako pametno.
02:50
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:52
In addition to creating things,
science creates ideas.
science creates ideas.
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Uz stvaranje stvari,
znanost stvara i ideje.
znanost stvara i ideje.
02:56
Science creates ways of understanding.
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Znanost stvara načine razmišljanja.
02:59
And in the social sciences,
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I u društvenim znanostima,
03:01
the ways of understanding that get created
are ways of understanding ourselves.
are ways of understanding ourselves.
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načini razumijevanja koji su stvoreni,
su načini razumijevanja nas samih.
su načini razumijevanja nas samih.
03:06
And they have an enormous influence
on how we think, what we aspire to,
on how we think, what we aspire to,
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I oni imaju ogroman utjecaj na naše
načine razmišljanja,naše aspiracije,
načine razmišljanja,naše aspiracije,
03:10
and how we act.
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naše postupke.
03:12
If you think your poverty
is God's will, you pray.
is God's will, you pray.
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Ako smatrate da je vaše siromaštvo
Božja volja,molite.
Božja volja,molite.
03:16
If you think your poverty is the result
of your own inadequacy,
of your own inadequacy,
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Ako smatrate da je vaše siromaštvo
rezultat vaše neučinkovitosti,
rezultat vaše neučinkovitosti,
03:20
you shrink into despair.
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utonete u očaj.
03:23
And if you think your poverty is
the result of oppression and domination,
the result of oppression and domination,
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A ako mislite da je vaše siromaštvo
rezultat opresije i dominacije,
rezultat opresije i dominacije,
03:27
then you rise up in revolt.
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pobunite se.
03:29
Whether your response to poverty
is resignation or revolution,
is resignation or revolution,
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Hoće li vaš odgovor na siromaštvo
biti rezignacija ili revolucija,
biti rezignacija ili revolucija,
03:34
depends on how you understand
the sources of your poverty.
the sources of your poverty.
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ovisi o načinu razumijevanja izvora
vašeg siromaštva.
vašeg siromaštva.
03:37
This is the role that ideas play
in shaping us as human beings,
in shaping us as human beings,
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To je uloga koju imaju ideje
u oblikovanju ljudskih bića
u oblikovanju ljudskih bića
03:43
and this is why idea technology may be
the most profoundly important technology
the most profoundly important technology
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i to je ralog zašto je idejna tehnologija
možda najvažnija tehnologija
možda najvažnija tehnologija
03:49
that science gives us.
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koju nam daje znanost.
03:51
And there's something special
about idea technology,
about idea technology,
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I postoji nešto posebno
o idejnoj tehnologiji,
o idejnoj tehnologiji,
03:55
that makes it different
from the technology of things.
from the technology of things.
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nešto što ju razlikuje
od tehnologije stvari.
od tehnologije stvari.
03:58
With things, if the technology sucks,
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Kada govorimo o stvarima,
ako tehnologija ne valja,
ako tehnologija ne valja,
04:01
it just vanishes, right?
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samo nestane,je li tako?
04:04
Bad technology disappears.
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Loša tehnologija nestaje.
04:06
With ideas --
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Kada govorimo o idejama-
04:08
false ideas about human beings
will not go away
will not go away
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Lažne ideje o ljudskim bićima
neće nestati,
neće nestati,
04:13
if people believe that they're true.
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ako ljudi vjeruju u njih.
04:16
Because if people believe
that they're true,
that they're true,
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Jer,ako ljudi vjeruju da su istinite,
04:19
they create ways of living
and institutions
and institutions
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stvaraju načine života i institucije
04:22
that are consistent
with these very false ideas.
with these very false ideas.
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koje se usklađene
s tim veoma lažnim idejama.
s tim veoma lažnim idejama.
04:26
And that's how the industrial revolution
created a factory system
created a factory system
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I tako je industrijska revolucija
stvorila sustav tvornica
stvorila sustav tvornica
04:30
in which there was really nothing you
could possibly get out of your day's work,
could possibly get out of your day's work,
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u kojem niste mogli izvući ništa
iz svog radnog dana,
iz svog radnog dana,
04:34
except for the pay at the end of the day.
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osim plaće na kraju dana.
04:37
Because the father --
one of the fathers
one of the fathers
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Zato što je otac-jedan od otaca.
04:39
of the Industrial Revolution,
Adam Smith --
Adam Smith --
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industrijske revolucije,Adam Smith--
04:41
was convinced that human beings
were by their very natures lazy,
were by their very natures lazy,
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bio uvjeren da su ljudska bića
po svojoj prirodi lijena
po svojoj prirodi lijena
04:45
and wouldn't do anything
unless you made it worth their while,
unless you made it worth their while,
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i da neće ništa raditi,
osim ako ih ne potaknete nečim,
osim ako ih ne potaknete nečim,
04:48
and the way you made it worth their while
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a to nešto je bilo
04:50
was by incentivizing,
by giving them rewards.
by giving them rewards.
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nagrađivanje.
04:53
That was the only reason
anyone ever did anything.
anyone ever did anything.
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To je bio jedini razlog
zašto je bilo tko išta radio.
zašto je bilo tko išta radio.
04:56
So we created a factory system consistent
with that false view of human nature.
with that false view of human nature.
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Stvorili smo sustav tvornica usklađen
s lažnom idejom ljudske prirode.
s lažnom idejom ljudske prirode.
05:01
But once that system
of production was in place,
of production was in place,
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Ali jednom kad se taj
sustav proizvodnje ustalio,
sustav proizvodnje ustalio,
05:04
there was really no other way
for people to operate,
for people to operate,
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nije bilo drugog načina
da ljudi funkcioniraju,
da ljudi funkcioniraju,
05:07
except in a way that was consistent
with Adam Smith's vision.
with Adam Smith's vision.
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osim na način usklačen
s viđenjem Adama Smitha.
s viđenjem Adama Smitha.
05:12
So the work example is merely an example
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Dakle,posao je jednostavno primjer
05:15
of how false ideas
can create a circumstance
can create a circumstance
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kao pogrešne ideje mogu stvoriti priliku
05:19
that ends up making them true.
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u kojoj završe ispravne.
05:23
It is not true
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Nije istina
05:25
that you "just can't get
good help anymore."
good help anymore."
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da više ne možete dobiti "dobru pomoć".
05:29
It is true
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Istina je
05:31
that you "can't get good help anymore"
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da više ne možete dobiti "dobru pomoć"
05:34
when you give people work to do
that is demeaning and soulless.
that is demeaning and soulless.
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kada ljudima dajete posao
koji je nedostojan i bezdušan.
koji je nedostojan i bezdušan.
05:39
And interestingly enough, Adam Smith --
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I zanimljivo je da je Adam Smith-
05:41
the same guy who gave us
this incredible invention
this incredible invention
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isti čovjek koji nam je priskrbio
taj nevjerojatan izum
taj nevjerojatan izum
05:45
of mass production, and division of labor
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masovne proizvodnje i podjelu rada
05:47
-- understood this.
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-- to razumio.
05:48
He said, of people who worked
in assembly lines,
in assembly lines,
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Rekao je,o ljudima koji su
radili na pokretnim trakama,
radili na pokretnim trakama,
05:52
of men who worked
in assembly lines, he says:
in assembly lines, he says:
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o muškarcima koji su ondje radili,on kaže:
05:54
"He generally becomes as stupid as it is
possible for a human being to become."
possible for a human being to become."
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"Postaju onoliko glupi koliko je
moguće da čovjek postane."
moguće da čovjek postane."
06:01
Now, notice the word here is "become."
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Primijetite da je ovdje riječ "postati".
06:03
"He generally becomes as stupid as it is
possible for a human being to become."
possible for a human being to become."
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"Postaju onoliko glupi
koliko je moguće da čovjek postane".
koliko je moguće da čovjek postane".
06:09
Whether he intended it or not,
what Adam Smith was telling us there,
what Adam Smith was telling us there,
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Neovisno o tome da li je to želio,
ono što nam je Adam Smith ovjde rekao,
ono što nam je Adam Smith ovjde rekao,
06:13
is that the very shape of the institution
within which people work
within which people work
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jest da sam oblik institucije u kojoj ljudi rade
06:17
creates people who are fitted
to the demands of that institution
to the demands of that institution
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stvara ljude koji su prilagođeni
zahtjevima institucije
zahtjevima institucije
06:21
and deprives people of the opportunity
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i oduzima ljudima priliku
06:24
to derive the kinds of satisfactions
from their work that we take for granted.
from their work that we take for granted.
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da dobiju to zadovoljstvo
iz posla koje uzimamo zdravo za gotovo.
iz posla koje uzimamo zdravo za gotovo.
06:29
The thing about science --
natural science --
natural science --
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Problem u znanosti--prirodnim znanostima--
06:32
is that we can spin fantastic
theories about the cosmos,
theories about the cosmos,
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je da možemo stvoriti
fantastične teorije o svemiru
fantastične teorije o svemiru
06:36
and have complete confidence
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i imati potpune dokaze
06:38
that the cosmos is completely
indifferent to our theories.
indifferent to our theories.
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da je svemir u potpunosti
indiferentan prema našim teorijama.
indiferentan prema našim teorijama.
06:43
It's going to work the same damn way
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Funkcionirat će na isti prokleti način,
06:45
no matter what theories
we have about the cosmos.
we have about the cosmos.
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bez obzira koje mi teorije imamo o njemu.
06:48
But we do have to worry about
the theories we have of human nature,
the theories we have of human nature,
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Ali moramo brinuti o teorijama
koje imamo o ljudskoj prirodi,
koje imamo o ljudskoj prirodi,
06:54
because human nature will be changed
by the theories we have
by the theories we have
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jer ljudsku priorodu mijenjamo
svojim teorijama
svojim teorijama
06:59
that are designed to explain
and help us understand human beings.
and help us understand human beings.
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koje stvaramo da bismo objasnili
i razumjeli ljudska bića.
i razumjeli ljudska bića.
07:03
The distinguished anthropologist,
Clifford Geertz, said, years ago,
Clifford Geertz, said, years ago,
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Poznati antropolog,Clifford Geertz,
je rekao,prije mnogo godina,
je rekao,prije mnogo godina,
07:08
that human beings
are the "unfinished animals."
are the "unfinished animals."
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da su ljudska bića "nedovršene životinje".
07:12
And what he meant by that
was that it is only human nature
was that it is only human nature
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I ono što je time mislio je
da je samo ljudski
da je samo ljudski
07:16
to have a human nature
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imati ljudsku prirodu
07:18
that is very much the product
of the society in which people live.
of the society in which people live.
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koja je proizvod društva
u kojem ljudi žive.
u kojem ljudi žive.
07:23
That human nature,
that is to say our human nature,
that is to say our human nature,
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Ta ljudska priroda,
točnije ta naša ljudska priroda,
točnije ta naša ljudska priroda,
07:26
is much more created
than it is discovered.
than it is discovered.
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je više stvarana,nego otkrivana.
07:30
We design human nature
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Mi stvaramo ljudsku prirodu
07:32
by designing the institutions
within which people live and work.
within which people live and work.
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stvarajući institucije
u kojima ljudi žive i rade.
u kojima ljudi žive i rade.
07:37
And so you people --
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Dakle,vi ljudi --
07:38
pretty much the closest I ever get
to being with masters of the universe --
to being with masters of the universe --
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najbliže što ću ikad biti
s gospodarima svemira --
s gospodarima svemira --
07:43
you people should be asking
yourself a question,
yourself a question,
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vi, ljudi, bi se trebali pitati,
07:47
as you go back home
to run your organizations.
to run your organizations.
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dok se vraćate kući
voditi svoje organizacije,
voditi svoje organizacije,
07:50
Just what kind of human nature
do you want to help design?
do you want to help design?
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"U stvaranju kakve
ljudske prirode želite pomoči?"
ljudske prirode želite pomoči?"
07:54
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
07:55
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
07:57
Thanks.
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Hvala.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Barry Schwartz - PsychologistBarry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Lately, working with Ken Sharpe, he's studying wisdom.
Why you should listen
In his 2004 book The Paradox of Choice, Barry Schwartz tackles one of the great mysteries of modern life: Why is it that societies of great abundance — where individuals are offered more freedom and choice (personal, professional, material) than ever before — are now witnessing a near-epidemic of depression? Conventional wisdom tells us that greater choice is for the greater good, but Schwartz argues the opposite: He makes a compelling case that the abundance of choice in today's western world is actually making us miserable.
Infinite choice is paralyzing, Schwartz argues, and exhausting to the human psyche. It leads us to set unreasonably high expectations, question our choices before we even make them and blame our failures entirely on ourselves. His relatable examples, from consumer products (jeans, TVs, salad dressings) to lifestyle choices (where to live, what job to take, who and when to marry), underscore this central point: Too much choice undermines happiness.
Schwartz's previous research has addressed morality, decision-making and the varied inter-relationships between science and society. Before Paradox he published The Costs of Living, which traces the impact of free-market thinking on the explosion of consumerism -- and the effect of the new capitalism on social and cultural institutions that once operated above the market, such as medicine, sports, and the law.
Both books level serious criticism of modern western society, illuminating the under-reported psychological plagues of our time. But they also offer concrete ideas on addressing the problems, from a personal and societal level.
Schwartz is the author of the TED Book, Why We Work.
Barry Schwartz | Speaker | TED.com