Mission Blue II
Carl Safina: What are animals thinking and feeling?
Karl Safina (Carl Safina): Šta životinje misle i osećaju?
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Šta se dešava unutar životinjskih umova? Možemo li da znamo šta, i da li misle i osećaju? Karl Safina misli da možemo. Koristeći otkirća i anegdote, koji se protežu od ekologije, preko biologije i bihevioralne nauke, on ispreda priče o kitovima, vukovima, slonovima i albatrosima kako bi pokazao da, baš kao što mi mislimo, osećamo, koristimo alate i izražavamo osećanja, to rade i druga bića - i umovi - koji sa nama dele zemlju.
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writer
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Have you ever wondered
what animals think and feel?
what animals think and feel?
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Jeste li se ikad pitali
šta životinje misle i osećaju?
šta životinje misle i osećaju?
00:17
Let's start with a question:
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Započnimo pitanjem:
00:19
Does my dog really love me,
or does she just want a treat?
or does she just want a treat?
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da li me moj pas zaista voli
ili samo želi poslasticu?
ili samo želi poslasticu?
00:24
Well, it's easy to see
that our dog really loves us,
that our dog really loves us,
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Pa, lako je zaključiti
da nas naš pas zaista voli,
da nas naš pas zaista voli,
00:29
easy to see, right,
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lako je to videti, zar ne,
00:32
what's going on in that fuzzy little head.
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šta se dešava u toj čupavoj glavici.
00:36
What is going on?
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Šta se dešava?
00:39
Something's going on.
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Nešto se dešava.
00:41
But why is the question always
do they love us?
do they love us?
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Ali zašto pitanje uvek glasi:
da li nas vole?
da li nas vole?
00:46
Why is it always about us?
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Zašto se sve uvek vrti oko nas?
00:48
Why are we such narcissists?
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Zašto smo toliki narcisi?
00:52
I found a different question
to ask animals.
to ask animals.
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Otkrio sam jedno drugo pitanje
koje bih pitao životinje.
koje bih pitao životinje.
00:57
Who are you?
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Ko ste vi?
01:01
There are capacities of the human mind
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Postoje sposobnosti našeg mozga
01:04
that we tend to think are capacities
only of the human mind.
only of the human mind.
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koje smatramo isključivo
sposobnostima ljudskog mozga.
sposobnostima ljudskog mozga.
01:10
But is that true?
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Međutim, da li je to tačno?
01:12
What are other beings
doing with those brains?
doing with those brains?
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Šta druga bića rade
sa svojim mozgovima?
sa svojim mozgovima?
01:16
What are they thinking and feeling?
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O čemu misle i šta osećaju?
01:19
Is there a way to know?
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Postoji li način da saznamo?
01:21
I think there is a way in.
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Verujem da postoji put do njih.
01:22
I think there are several ways in.
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Verujem da postoji nekoliko puteva.
01:24
We can look at evolution,
we can look at their brains
we can look at their brains
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Možemo da posmatramo evoluciju,
možemo da posmatramo njihove umove
možemo da posmatramo njihove umove
01:29
and we can watch what they do.
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i možemo da posmatramo šta rade.
01:33
The first thing to remember is:
our brain is inherited.
our brain is inherited.
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Prvo što moramo da imamo na umu je:
naš mozak je nasleđen.
naš mozak je nasleđen.
01:38
The first neurons came from jellyfish.
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Prvi neuroni potiču od meduza.
01:42
Jellyfish gave rise
to the first chordates.
to the first chordates.
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S meduzama nastaju prve hordate.
01:45
The first chordates gave rise
to the first vertebrates.
to the first vertebrates.
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S prvim hordatama
nastaju prvi kičmenjaci.
nastaju prvi kičmenjaci.
01:49
The vertebrates came out of the sea,
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Kičmenjaci izlaze iz mora
01:51
and here we are.
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i eto nas.
01:54
But it's still true that a neuron,
a nerve cell, looks the same
a nerve cell, looks the same
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Ali je i dalje tačno da neuron,
nervna ćelija, izgleda identično
nervna ćelija, izgleda identično
02:00
in a crayfish, a bird or you.
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kod raka, ptice i vas.
02:04
What does that say
about the minds of crayfish?
about the minds of crayfish?
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Šta nam to govori o umovima rakova?
02:08
Can we tell anything about that?
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Možemo li bilo šta reći o tome?
02:10
Well, it turns out that
if you give a crayfish
if you give a crayfish
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Pa, ispostavilo se da ako raka izložite
02:14
a lot of little tiny electric shocks
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mnoštvu sitnih električnih šokova
02:17
every time it tries
to come out of its burrow,
to come out of its burrow,
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svaki put kada pokuša
da napusti svoju jazbinu,
da napusti svoju jazbinu,
02:19
it will develop anxiety.
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razviće anksioznost.
02:23
If you give the crayfish the same drug
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Ako date raku lek
02:26
used to treat anxiety disorder in humans,
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koji koriste ljudi pri lečenju
poremećaja anksioznosti,
poremećaja anksioznosti,
02:29
it relaxes and comes out and explores.
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rak će da se opusti, izađe i istražuje.
02:34
How do we show how much
we care about crayfish anxiety?
we care about crayfish anxiety?
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Kako pokazujemo koliko nam je stalo
do račje anksioznosti?
do račje anksioznosti?
02:37
Mostly, we boil them.
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Uglavnom ih kuvamo.
02:39
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:42
Octopuses use tools,
as well as do most apes
as well as do most apes
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Hobotnice koriste alate,
kao i većina majmuna
kao i većina majmuna
02:47
and they recognize human faces.
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i raspoznaju ljudski lik.
02:50
How do we celebrate the ape-like
intelligence of this invertebrate?
intelligence of this invertebrate?
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Kako slavimo majmunoliku
inteligenciju ovog beskičmenjaka?
inteligenciju ovog beskičmenjaka?
02:55
Mostly boiled.
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Uglavnom kuvanjem.
02:58
If a grouper chases a fish
into a crevice in the coral,
into a crevice in the coral,
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Ako groper satera ribu u pukotinu korala,
03:02
it will sometimes go to where it knows
a moray eel is sleeping
a moray eel is sleeping
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ponekad će da pođe do mesta
na kome zna da spava murinka
na kome zna da spava murinka
03:07
and it will signal
to the moray, "Follow me,"
to the moray, "Follow me,"
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i signaliziraće murinki: "Sledi me",
03:11
and the moray will understand that signal.
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a murinka će razumeti taj signal.
03:14
The moray may go into the crevice
and get the fish,
and get the fish,
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Murinka će možda ući u pukotinu
i uhvatiti ribu,
i uhvatiti ribu,
03:17
but the fish may bolt
and the grouper may get it.
and the grouper may get it.
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ali riba se može izmigoljiti
i groper je može uhvatiti.
i groper je može uhvatiti.
03:20
This is an ancient partnership that we
have just recently found out about.
have just recently found out about.
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Ovo je drevno partnerstvo
koje smo mi tek nedavno otkrili.
koje smo mi tek nedavno otkrili.
03:26
How do we celebrate
that ancient partnership?
that ancient partnership?
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Kako slavimo to drevno partnerstvo?
03:30
Mostly fried.
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Uglavnom prženjem.
03:32
A pattern is emerging and it says
a lot more about us
a lot more about us
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Obrazac se javlja
i govori mnogo više o nama
i govori mnogo više o nama
03:36
than it does about them.
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nego o njima.
03:39
Sea otters use tools
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Morske vidre koriste alate
03:42
and they take time away
from what they're doing
from what they're doing
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i odvajaju vreme kad nešto rade
03:45
to show their babies what to do,
which is called teaching.
which is called teaching.
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da bi pokazale svojim mladima šta da rade,
to se zove podučavanje.
to se zove podučavanje.
03:49
Chimpanzees don't teach.
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Šimpanze ne podučavaju.
03:52
Killer whales teach
and killer whales share food.
and killer whales share food.
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Kitovi ubice podučavaju
i kitovi ubice dele hranu.
i kitovi ubice dele hranu.
03:58
When evolution makes something new,
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Kada evolucija stvara nešto novo,
04:00
it uses the parts it has
in stock, off the shelf,
in stock, off the shelf,
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koristi delove koje već ima
u zalihama, na polici,
u zalihama, na polici,
04:05
before it fabricates a new twist.
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pre nego što proizvede novi zaokret.
04:07
And our brain has come to us
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Naš um nam je podaren
04:10
through the enormity
of the deep sweep of time.
of the deep sweep of time.
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kroz ogromnost dugog protoka vremena.
04:14
If you look at the human brain
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
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Ako posmatrate ljudski mozak,
upoređen s šimpanzinim,
upoređen s šimpanzinim,
04:18
what you see is we have basically
a very big chimpanzee brain.
a very big chimpanzee brain.
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primetićete da u suštini imamo
veoma veliki šimpanzeći mozak.
veoma veliki šimpanzeći mozak.
04:21
It's a good thing ours is bigger,
because we're also really insecure.
because we're also really insecure.
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Dobro je što je naš veći
jer smo takođe veoma nesigurni.
jer smo takođe veoma nesigurni.
04:25
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
04:27
But, uh oh, there's a dolphin,
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Ali, o ne, imamo delfine,
04:30
a bigger brain with more convolutions.
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s većim mozgovima
koji imaju više funkcija.
koji imaju više funkcija.
04:34
OK, maybe you're saying,
all right, well, we see brains,
all right, well, we see brains,
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U redu, možda ćete reći,
važi, pa, vidimo mozgove,
važi, pa, vidimo mozgove,
04:37
but what does that
have to say about minds?
have to say about minds?
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ali šta nam to govori o umovima?
04:40
Well, we can see the working of the mind
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Pa, možemo da vidimo umni rad
04:44
in the logic of behaviors.
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u logici ponašanja.
04:46
So these elephants, you can see,
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Dakle, ovi slonovi, kao što vidite,
04:50
obviously, they are resting.
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očigledno se odmaraju.
04:53
They have found a patch of shade
under the palm trees
under the palm trees
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Pronašli su parče hlada
ispod palminog drveća,
ispod palminog drveća,
04:57
under which to let their babies sleep,
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pod kojim će njihovi mladi da spavaju,
05:00
while they doze but remain vigilant.
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dok odrasli kunjaju, ali ostaju na oprezu.
05:03
We make perfect sense of that image
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Taj prizor nam je savršeno jasan,
05:06
just as they make perfect sense
of what they're doing
of what they're doing
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baš kao što je i njima
savršeno jasno šta rade
savršeno jasno šta rade
05:10
because under the arc of the same sun
on the same plains,
on the same plains,
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jer pod svetlošću istog sunca,
na istim ravnicama,
na istim ravnicama,
05:13
listening to the howls
of the same dangers,
of the same dangers,
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slušajući urlike istih opasnosti,
05:17
they became who they are
and we became who we are.
and we became who we are.
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postali su to što jesu,
a mi smo postali to što jesmo.
a mi smo postali to što jesmo.
05:22
We've been neighbors for a very long time.
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Komšije smo već dugo vremena.
05:24
No one would mistake
these elephants as being relaxed.
these elephants as being relaxed.
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Niko ne bi ove slonove
greškom nazvao opuštenim.
greškom nazvao opuštenim.
05:28
They're obviously very
concerned about something.
concerned about something.
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Očigledno su veoma zabrinuti zbog nečega.
05:31
What are they concerned about?
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Zbog čega su zabrinuti?
05:33
It turns out that if you record
the voices of tourists
the voices of tourists
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Ispostavilo se da
ako snimite glasove turista
ako snimite glasove turista
05:37
and you play that recording
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
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i pustite snimak sa razglasa
skrivenog u žbunju,
skrivenog u žbunju,
05:42
elephants will ignore it,
because tourists never bother elephants.
because tourists never bother elephants.
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slonovi će to da ignorišu
jer turisti nikad ne uznemiravaju slonove.
jer turisti nikad ne uznemiravaju slonove.
05:46
But if you record the voices of herders
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Ali, ako snimite glasove stočara
05:50
who carry spears and often hurt elephants
in confrontations at water holes,
in confrontations at water holes,
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koji nose koplja i često povređuju slonove
u sukobima na pojilima,
u sukobima na pojilima,
05:55
the elephants will bunch up
and run away from the hidden speaker.
and run away from the hidden speaker.
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slonovi će se zbiti u gomilu
i pobeći će od skrivenog razglasa.
i pobeći će od skrivenog razglasa.
06:00
Not only do elephants know
that there are humans,
that there are humans,
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Slonovi ne samo da znaju da postoje ljudi,
06:04
they know that there are
different kinds of humans,
different kinds of humans,
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već znaju da postoje različiti ljudi
06:06
and that some are OK
and some are dangerous.
and some are dangerous.
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i da su neki u redu, a neki su opasni.
06:10
They have been watching us for much longer
than we have been watching them.
than we have been watching them.
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Posmatrali su nas duže nego mi njih.
06:15
They know us better than we know them.
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Poznaju nas bolje nego mi njih.
06:18
We have the same imperatives:
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Imamo iste prioritete:
06:21
take care of our babies,
find food, try to stay alive.
find food, try to stay alive.
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briga o mladima,
pronalaženje hrane, preživljavanje.
pronalaženje hrane, preživljavanje.
06:26
Whether we're outfitted for hiking
in the hills of Africa
in the hills of Africa
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Bilo da smo opremljeni
za planinarenje po afričkim brdima
za planinarenje po afričkim brdima
06:30
or outfitted for diving under the sea,
we are basically the same.
we are basically the same.
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ili smo opremljeni za ronjenje u moru,
u suštini smo isti.
u suštini smo isti.
06:34
We are kin under the skin.
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Pod kožom smo rod.
06:36
The elephant has the same skeleton,
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Slon ima isti skelet,
06:39
the killer whale has the same skeleton,
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kit ubica ima isti skelet
06:41
as do we.
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kao mi.
06:45
We see helping where help is needed.
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Vidimo pomoć gde je pomoć potrebna.
06:48
We see curiosity in the young.
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Vidimo znatiželju kod mladih.
06:52
We see the bonds of family connections.
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Vidimo spone porodičnih veza.
06:57
We recognize affection.
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Prepoznajemo naklonost.
07:00
Courtship is courtship.
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Udvaranje je udvaranje.
07:03
And then we ask, "Are they conscious?"
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A onda pitamo: "Jesu li svesne?"
07:07
When you get general anesthesia,
it makes you unconscious,
it makes you unconscious,
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Kada vam daju totalnu anesteziju,
postajete nesvesni,
postajete nesvesni,
07:10
which means you have
no sensation of anything.
no sensation of anything.
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što znači da nemate osećaj ni za šta.
07:13
Consciousness is simply
the thing that feels like something.
the thing that feels like something.
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Svesnost je prosto nešto
što budi osećanja na nešto.
što budi osećanja na nešto.
07:17
If you see, if you hear, if you feel,
if you're aware of anything,
if you're aware of anything,
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Ako vidite, ako čujete, ako osećate,
ako ste svesni bilo čega,
ako ste svesni bilo čega,
07:21
you are conscious, and they are conscious.
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svesno ste biće, a životinje su svesne.
07:27
Some people say
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Neki ljudi kažu,
07:28
well, there are certain things
that make humans humans,
that make humans humans,
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pa, postoje neke stvari
koje ljude čine ljudima,
koje ljude čine ljudima,
07:30
and one of those things is empathy.
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a jedna od tih stvari je empatija.
07:32
Empathy is the mind's ability
to match moods with your companions.
to match moods with your companions.
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Empatija je sposobnost razuma
da podesi vaša osećanja sa onima oko vas.
da podesi vaša osećanja sa onima oko vas.
07:39
It's a very useful thing.
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To je veoma korisno.
07:41
If your companions start to move quickly,
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Ako oni oko vas počnu da se brzo kreću,
07:43
you have to feel like
you need to hurry up.
you need to hurry up.
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primorani ste da osećate
potrebu da požurite.
potrebu da požurite.
07:45
We're all in a hurry now.
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Svi sad žurimo.
07:47
The oldest form of empathy
is contagious fear.
is contagious fear.
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Najstariji vid empatije je zarazni strah.
07:50
If your companions suddenly
startle and fly away,
startle and fly away,
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Ako se oni oko vas
iznenada trgnu i odlete,
iznenada trgnu i odlete,
07:53
it does not work very well for you to say,
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nije baš dobro za vas da se pitate:
07:55
"Jeez, I wonder why everybody just left."
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"Gospode, pitam se što svi odoše."
07:58
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
08:03
Empathy is old, but empathy,
like everything else in life,
like everything else in life,
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Empatija je stara, ali empatija,
kao i sve u životu,
kao i sve u životu,
08:06
comes on a sliding scale
and has its elaboration.
and has its elaboration.
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uslovljena je raznim faktorima
i ima svoj postepen razvoj.
i ima svoj postepen razvoj.
08:10
So there's basic empathy:
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
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Pa imamo osnovnu empatiju:
tužni ste, to me rastužuje.
tužni ste, to me rastužuje.
08:14
I see you happy, it makes me happy.
138
482679
1937
Vidim da ste srećni, to me usrećuje.
08:17
Then there's something
that I call sympathy,
that I call sympathy,
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2783
Potom imamo nešto što zovem saučešćem,
08:19
a little more removed:
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1860
malo je udaljenije:
08:22
"I'm sorry to hear that your grandmother
has just passed away.
has just passed away.
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3467
"Žao mi je što čujem
da ti je baka upravo umrla.
da ti je baka upravo umrla.
08:25
I don't feel that same grief,
but I get it; I know what you feel
but I get it; I know what you feel
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3627
Ne osećam tvoj bol, ali ga razumem;
znam kako se osećaš
znam kako se osećaš
08:29
and it concerns me."
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1413
i to me dotiče."
08:30
And then if we're motivated
to act on sympathy,
to act on sympathy,
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A ako smo motivisani
da reagujemo na saučešće,
da reagujemo na saučešće,
08:33
I call that compassion.
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1806
to nazivam saosećanjem.
08:36
Far from being the thing
that makes us human,
that makes us human,
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Pored toga što nije ni blizu
onoga što nas čini ljudima,
onoga što nas čini ljudima,
08:39
human empathy is far from perfect.
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3340
ljudska empatija je takođe
daleko od savršenstva.
daleko od savršenstva.
08:42
We round up empathic creatures,
we kill them and we eat them.
we kill them and we eat them.
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Mi zarobljavamo empatična bića,
ubijamo ih i jedemo.
ubijamo ih i jedemo.
08:48
Now, maybe you say OK,
well, those are different species.
well, those are different species.
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Sad, možda ćete reći, u redu,
pa nismo ista vrsta.
pa nismo ista vrsta.
08:50
That's just predation,
and humans are predators.
and humans are predators.
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518925
3718
To je prosto predacija,
a ljudi su predatori.
a ljudi su predatori.
08:54
But we don't treat our own kind
too well either.
too well either.
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No mi se ne odnosimo
ni prema našoj vrsti naročito bajno.
ni prema našoj vrsti naročito bajno.
09:01
People who seem to know
only one thing about animal behavior
only one thing about animal behavior
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Ljudi koji, kako se čini,
znaju bar nešto o ponašanju životinja,
znaju bar nešto o ponašanju životinja,
09:04
know that you must never attribute
human thoughts and emotions
human thoughts and emotions
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znaju da nipošto ne smete
da pripisujete ljudske misli i emocije
da pripisujete ljudske misli i emocije
09:08
to other species.
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1801
drugim vrstama.
09:10
Well, I think that's silly,
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538723
1821
Ja to smatram smešnim
09:12
because attributing human thoughts
and emotions to other species
and emotions to other species
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4122
jer je pripisivanje ljudskih misli
i osećanja drugim vrstama
i osećanja drugim vrstama
09:16
is the best first guess about what
they're doing and how they're feeling,
they're doing and how they're feeling,
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4251
najbolja prva pretpostavka
o tome šta rade i kako se osećaju
o tome šta rade i kako se osećaju
09:20
because their brains
are basically the same as ours.
are basically the same as ours.
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jer su njihovi mozgovi
u suštini isti kao naši.
u suštini isti kao naši.
09:24
They have the same structures.
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1731
Imaju istu strukturu.
09:26
The same hormones that create
mood and motivation in us
mood and motivation in us
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5050
Isti hormoni proizvode
raspoloženja i motivaciju kod nas
raspoloženja i motivaciju kod nas
09:31
are in those brains as well.
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2258
kao i kod njihovih mozgova.
09:35
It is not scientific to say that they
are hungry when they're hunting
are hungry when they're hunting
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Nije naučno reći da su gladne kad love
09:40
and they're tired when
their tongues are hanging out,
their tongues are hanging out,
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2947
i da su umorne kad im jezici vise,
09:43
and then say when they're playing
with their children
with their children
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i zatim kažemo kad se igraju s mladima
09:45
and acting joyful and happy,
165
573829
1911
i izgledaju radosno i srećno,
09:47
we have no idea if they can possibly
be experiencing anything.
be experiencing anything.
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da nemamo pojma da li uopšte
doživljavaju bilo šta.
doživljavaju bilo šta.
09:52
That is not scientific.
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580577
1994
To nije naučno.
09:55
So OK, so a reporter said to me,
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2685
U redu, dakle, novinar me je pitao:
09:58
"Maybe, but how do you really know
that other animals can think and feel?"
that other animals can think and feel?"
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586328
4308
"Možda, ali kako uistinu znate da
druge životinje mogu da misle i osećaju?"
druge životinje mogu da misle i osećaju?"
10:02
And I started to rifle
through all the hundreds
through all the hundreds
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3055
Te sam počeo da preturam sve te stotine
10:05
of scientific references
that I put in my book
that I put in my book
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593739
2499
naučnih referenci
koje sam napisao u knjizi
koje sam napisao u knjizi
10:08
and I realized that the answer
was right in the room with me.
was right in the room with me.
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596262
3240
i shvatio sam da je odgovor
tu ispred mene.
tu ispred mene.
10:11
When my dog gets off the rug
and comes over to me --
and comes over to me --
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599526
3753
Kada moj pas siđe s tepiha i priđe mi -
10:15
not to the couch, to me --
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1762
ne kauču, već meni -
10:17
and she rolls over on her back
and exposes her belly,
and exposes her belly,
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4177
i kada se izvrne na leđa i otkrije stomak,
10:21
she has had the thought,
"I would like my belly rubbed.
"I would like my belly rubbed.
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609290
2868
ima sledeću misao:
"Želim da mi neko češka stomak.
"Želim da mi neko češka stomak.
10:26
I know that I can go over to Carl,
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2536
Znam da mogu da pođem do Karla,
10:29
he will understand what I'm asking.
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2313
on će razumeti šta želim od njega.
10:32
I know I can trust him
because we're family.
because we're family.
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620084
2496
Znam da mogu da mu verujem
jer smo porodica.
jer smo porodica.
10:35
He'll get the job done,
and it will feel good."
and it will feel good."
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623406
2715
On će obaviti posao
i osećaću se dobro."
i osećaću se dobro."
10:38
(Laughter)
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1886
(Smeh)
10:40
She has thought and she has felt,
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3329
Ima misao i ima osećanje
10:43
and it's really not
more complicated than that.
more complicated than that.
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2664
i zaista nije složenije od toga.
10:46
But we see other animals
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
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4613
Međutim, vidimo druge životinje
i kažemo: "Ah, pogledajte kitove ubice,
i kažemo: "Ah, pogledajte kitove ubice,
10:50
wolves, elephants:
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2410
vukove, slonove:
10:53
that's not how they see it."
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641167
1611
oni na to ne gledaju tako."
10:55
That tall-finned male is L41.
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643714
4294
Taj mužjak s visokim perajem je L41.
11:00
He's 38 years old.
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648032
2047
Star je 38 godina.
11:02
The female right on his left side is L22.
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3472
Ženka tik s desna do njega je L22.
11:05
She's 44.
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653899
1552
Ona ima 44 godine.
11:07
They've known each other for decades.
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655475
2635
Poznaju se decenijama.
11:10
They know exactly who they are.
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658650
1972
Oni tačno znaju ko su.
11:12
They know who their friends are.
193
660646
1551
Znaju ko su im prijatelji.
11:14
They know who their rivals are.
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662221
1698
Znaju ko su im suparnici.
11:15
Their life follows the arc of a career.
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663943
2113
Njihov život ima usmerenu putanju.
11:18
They know where they are all the time.
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666802
2234
Sve vreme znaju gde su.
11:22
This is an elephant named Philo.
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670863
2375
Ovo je slon pod imenom Fajlo.
11:25
He was a young male.
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673667
1828
Bio je mlad mužjak.
11:27
This is him four days later.
199
675519
1818
Ovo je on četiri dana kasnije.
11:30
Humans not only can feel grief,
we create an awful lot of it.
we create an awful lot of it.
200
678999
5330
Ljudi ne samo da osećaju bol,
mi ga užasno mnogo nanosimo.
mi ga užasno mnogo nanosimo.
11:38
We want to carve their teeth.
201
686648
2314
Želimo da rezbarimo njihove zube.
11:42
Why can't we wait for them to die?
202
690153
3304
Zašto ne možemo da sačekamo da umru?
11:47
Elephants once ranged from the shores
of the Mediterranean Sea
of the Mediterranean Sea
203
695998
3468
Slonovi su se nekad prostirali
od obala Sredozemnog mora
od obala Sredozemnog mora
11:51
all the way down to the Cape of Good Hope.
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699490
2075
sve dole do Rta dobre nade.
11:53
In 1980, there were vast
strongholds of elephant range
strongholds of elephant range
205
701589
3386
Tokom 1980-ih, slonovi su držali
ogromna uporišta
ogromna uporišta
11:56
in Central and Eastern Africa.
206
704999
2188
u centralnoj i istočnoj Africi.
11:59
And now their range is shattered
into little shards.
into little shards.
207
707211
4337
A sada su njihova staništa
razbijena na sitne krhotine.
razbijena na sitne krhotine.
12:03
This is the geography of an animal
that we are driving to extinction,
that we are driving to extinction,
208
711572
4679
Ovo je geografija životinje
koju teramo u istrebljenje,
koju teramo u istrebljenje,
12:08
a fellow being, the most
magnificent creature on land.
magnificent creature on land.
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716275
3849
bratsko biće,
najveličanstvenije biće na kopnu.
najveličanstvenije biće na kopnu.
12:13
Of course, we take much better care
of our wildlife in the United States.
of our wildlife in the United States.
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721288
4028
Naravno da se bolje brinemo
za naše divlje životinje u SAD.
za naše divlje životinje u SAD.
12:17
In Yellowstone National Park,
we killed every single wolf.
we killed every single wolf.
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725681
4235
U Nacionalnom parku Jelouston
smo pobili sve vukove.
smo pobili sve vukove.
12:21
We killed every single wolf
south of the Canadian border, actually.
south of the Canadian border, actually.
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3449
Pobili smo zapravo sve vukove
južno od kanadske granice.
južno od kanadske granice.
12:25
But in the park, park rangers
did that in the 1920s,
did that in the 1920s,
213
733413
4393
Međutim u parku,
rendžeri su to uradili 1920-ih,
rendžeri su to uradili 1920-ih,
12:29
and then 60 years later
they had to bring them back,
they had to bring them back,
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737830
2591
a onda su 60 godina kasnije
morali da ih vrate
morali da ih vrate
12:32
because the elk numbers
had gotten out of control.
had gotten out of control.
215
740445
2907
jer se broj losova otrgao kontroli.
12:36
And then people came.
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1274
A onda su došli ljudi.
12:37
People came by the thousands
to see the wolves,
to see the wolves,
217
745809
3724
Došlo je na hiljade ljudi da vidi vukove,
12:41
the most accessibly
visible wolves in the world.
visible wolves in the world.
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3495
najpristupačnije vukove za videti u svetu.
12:45
And I went there and I watched
this incredible family of wolves.
this incredible family of wolves.
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753512
3252
Pa sam otišao tamo i posmatrao
jednu neverovatnu porodicu vukova.
jednu neverovatnu porodicu vukova.
12:48
A pack is a family.
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756788
1453
Čopor je porodica.
12:50
It has some breeding adults
and the young of several generations.
and the young of several generations.
221
758265
3575
Imaju nekoliko odraslih za rasplod
i mlade različitih generacija.
i mlade različitih generacija.
12:55
And I watched the most famous, most stable
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
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763158
4616
I posmatrao sam najčuveniji,
najstabilniji čopor u Jeloustonu.
najstabilniji čopor u Jeloustonu.
13:00
And then, when they wandered
just outside the border,
just outside the border,
223
768370
3130
A onda, kada su odlutali
malo preko granice,
malo preko granice,
13:03
two of their adults were killed,
224
771524
2681
dve odrasle jedinke su ubijene,
13:06
including the mother,
225
774229
2253
uključujući majku,
13:08
which we sometimes call the alpha female.
226
776506
2178
koju ponekad nazivamo alfa ženkom.
13:11
The rest of the family immediately
descended into sibling rivalry.
descended into sibling rivalry.
227
779502
4243
Ostatak porodice momentalno
zapada u rođačko rivalstvo.
zapada u rođačko rivalstvo.
13:16
Sisters kicked out other sisters.
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784871
2241
Sestre su izbacile druge sestre.
13:19
That one on the left tried for days
to rejoin her family.
to rejoin her family.
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787565
3481
Ova s desna je pokušavala danima
da se pridruži porodici.
da se pridruži porodici.
13:23
They wouldn't let her
because they were jealous of her.
because they were jealous of her.
230
791070
2692
Nisu joj dozvolile
jer su bile ljubomorne na nju.
jer su bile ljubomorne na nju.
13:25
She was getting too much attention
from two new males,
from two new males,
231
793786
2813
Privlačila je preveliku pažnju
dva nova mužjaka,
dva nova mužjaka,
13:28
and she was the precocious one.
232
796623
2018
te je ona bila dragocena jedinka.
13:30
That was too much for them.
233
798665
1653
To je bilo previše za njih.
13:32
She wound up wandering
outside the park and getting shot.
outside the park and getting shot.
234
800342
2725
Završila je lutajući van parka
i ustreljena je.
i ustreljena je.
13:36
The alpha male wound up
being ejected from his own family.
being ejected from his own family.
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804463
3409
Alfa mužjak je završio
odbačen od sopstvene porodice.
odbačen od sopstvene porodice.
13:40
As winter was coming in,
236
808436
2003
Kako je zima dolazila,
13:42
he lost his territory,
his hunting support,
his hunting support,
237
810463
3750
izgubio je teritoriju, podršku za lov,
13:46
the members of his family and his mate.
238
814237
2471
članove porodice
i svoju partnerku za parenje.
i svoju partnerku za parenje.
13:50
We cause so much pain to them.
239
818883
3624
Toliko im nanosimo bola.
13:55
The mystery is, why don't
they hurt us more than they do?
they hurt us more than they do?
240
823665
4960
Misterija je zašto nas ne povređuju
više nego što inače rade?
više nego što inače rade?
14:01
This whale had just finished eating
part of a grey whale
part of a grey whale
241
829855
3198
Ovaj kit je upravo pojeo deo sivog kita
14:05
with his companions
who had killed that whale.
who had killed that whale.
242
833077
2579
sa svojim drugovima,
koji su ubili tog kita.
koji su ubili tog kita.
14:07
Those people in the boat
had nothing at all to fear.
had nothing at all to fear.
243
835680
3084
Ovi ljudi na brodu
nemaju čega da se plaše.
nemaju čega da se plaše.
14:11
This whale is T20.
244
839999
1989
Ovaj kit je T20.
14:14
He had just finished tearing a seal
into three pieces with two companions.
into three pieces with two companions.
245
842488
4251
Upravo je sa dva drugara
rastrgao foku na tri dela.
rastrgao foku na tri dela.
14:19
The seal weighed about as much
as the people in the boat.
as the people in the boat.
246
847168
2692
Foka je težila koliko i ljudi na brodu.
14:21
They had nothing to fear.
247
849884
1503
Oni nisu imali čega da se plaše.
14:24
They eat seals.
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852189
1422
Jedu foke.
14:26
Why don't they eat us?
249
854699
1686
Zašto ne jedu nas?
14:30
Why can we trust them around our toddlers?
250
858823
3760
Zašto imamo poverenja u njih
i puštamo ih blizu naših beba?
i puštamo ih blizu naših beba?
14:36
Why is it that killer whales have returned
to researchers lost in thick fog
to researchers lost in thick fog
251
864488
5902
Zašto su se kitovi ubice vratili
istraživačima izgubljenim u gustoj magli
istraživačima izgubljenim u gustoj magli
14:42
and led them miles until the fog parted
252
870414
3330
i vodili ih kilometrima,
dok se magla nije digla,
dok se magla nije digla,
14:45
and the researchers' home
was right there on the shoreline?
was right there on the shoreline?
253
873768
3165
a dom istraživača je bio
odmah tu na morskoj obali?
odmah tu na morskoj obali?
14:48
And that's happened more than one time.
254
876957
2016
A to se desilo više od jednog puta.
14:53
In the Bahamas, there's a woman
named Denise Herzing,
named Denise Herzing,
255
881171
2575
Na Bahamima živi žena
po imenu Deniz Hercing
po imenu Deniz Hercing
14:55
and she studies spotted dolphins
and they know her.
and they know her.
256
883770
3324
i ona izučava pegave delfine
i oni je poznaju.
i oni je poznaju.
14:59
She knows them very well.
She knows who they all are.
She knows who they all are.
257
887118
2598
Ona veoma dobro poznaje njih.
Zna sve njih pojedinačno.
Zna sve njih pojedinačno.
15:01
They know her.
They recognize the research boat.
They recognize the research boat.
258
889740
2262
Poznaju je. Prepoznaju istraživački brod.
15:04
When she shows up,
it's a big happy reunion.
it's a big happy reunion.
259
892026
2230
Kada se pojavi,
to je veliko srećno okupljanje.
to je veliko srećno okupljanje.
15:06
Except, one time showed up and they
didn't want to come near the boat,
didn't want to come near the boat,
260
894280
3315
Osim kad se jednom pojavila,
a oni nisu hteli da priđu brodu
a oni nisu hteli da priđu brodu
15:09
and that was really strange.
261
897619
2074
i to je uistinu bilo čudno.
15:11
And they couldn't figure out
what was going on
what was going on
262
899717
2164
Nisu mogli da shvate o čemu se radi
sve dok neko nije izašao na palubu
15:13
until somebody came out on deck
263
901905
1500
15:15
and announced that one
of the people onboard had died
of the people onboard had died
264
903429
2635
i objavio da je jedan član posade umro
15:18
during a nap in his bunk.
265
906088
1771
tokom dremke u svom ležaju.
15:20
How could dolphins know
that one of the human hearts
that one of the human hearts
266
908740
3926
Kako su delfini znali
da je jedno ljudsko srce
da je jedno ljudsko srce
15:24
had just stopped?
267
912690
1469
upravo stalo?
15:26
Why would they care?
268
914818
2290
Zašto bi ih bilo briga?
15:29
And why would it spook them?
269
917132
2193
I zašto bi ih to uplašilo?
15:33
These mysterious things just hint at
all of the things that are going on
all of the things that are going on
270
921111
5299
Ove misteriozne stvari samo nagoveštavaju
sve što se dešava
sve što se dešava
15:38
in the minds that are with us on Earth
271
926434
2742
u umovima koji su sa nama na zemlji,
15:41
that we almost never think about at all.
272
929200
4231
o kojima skoro nikad ne mislimo.
15:46
At an aquarium in South Africa
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U akvarijumu u Južnoj Africi
15:48
was a little baby bottle-nosed
dolphin named Dolly.
dolphin named Dolly.
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bilo je mladunče kljunastog delfina,
po imenu Doli.
po imenu Doli.
15:52
She was nursing, and one day
a keeper took a cigarette break
a keeper took a cigarette break
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Sisala je i jednog dana
čuvar je napravio pauzu za cigarete
čuvar je napravio pauzu za cigarete
15:58
and he was looking into the window
into their pool, smoking.
into their pool, smoking.
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i posmatrao je kroz prozor
unutrašnjost njihovog bazena, pušeći.
unutrašnjost njihovog bazena, pušeći.
16:02
Dolly came over and looked at him,
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Doli je prišla i pogledala ga,
16:04
went back to her mother,
nursed for a minute or two,
nursed for a minute or two,
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otišla do majke, sisala minut-dva,
16:08
came back to the window
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vratila se do prozora
16:10
and released a cloud of milk
that enveloped her head like smoke.
that enveloped her head like smoke.
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i oslobodila oblak mleka
koji je uokvirio njenu glavu, poput dima.
koji je uokvirio njenu glavu, poput dima.
16:16
Somehow, this baby bottle-nosed dolphin
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Nekako je ovom mladunčetu
kljunastog delfina
kljunastog delfina
16:19
got the idea of using milk
to represent smoke.
to represent smoke.
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pala na pamet ideja
da koristi mleko umesto dima.
da koristi mleko umesto dima.
16:24
When human beings use one thing
to represent another,
to represent another,
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Kada ljudska bića koriste nešto
u značenju nečeg drugog,
u značenju nečeg drugog,
16:27
we call that art.
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mi to zovemo umetnošću.
16:29
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
16:31
The things that make us human
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Ono što nas čini ljudima
16:33
are not the things
that we think make us human.
that we think make us human.
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nije ono što mislimo da nas čini ljudima.
16:36
What makes us human is that,
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Ono što nas čini ljudima je to
16:39
of all these things that our minds
and their minds have,
and their minds have,
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da od svih zajedničkih osobina,
koje naši i njihovi umovi imaju
koje naši i njihovi umovi imaju
16:42
we are the most extreme.
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naše su najekstremnije.
16:46
We are the most compassionate,
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Mi smo najsaosećajnija,
16:48
most violent, most creative
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najnasilnija, najkreativnija
16:51
and most destructive animal
that has ever been on this planet,
that has ever been on this planet,
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i najdestruktivnija životinja
koja je postojala na planeti
koja je postojala na planeti
16:56
and we are all of those things
all jumbled up together.
all jumbled up together.
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i mi smo sve te stvari, zbrkane zajedno.
17:01
But love is not the thing
that makes us human.
that makes us human.
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Međutim, ljubav nas ne čini ljudima.
17:06
It's not special to us.
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Nije rezervisana za nas.
17:09
We are not the only ones
who care about our mates.
who care about our mates.
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Ne marimo samo mi za svoje partnere.
17:13
We are not the only ones
who care about our children.
who care about our children.
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Ne marimo samo mi za svoju decu.
17:18
Albatrosses frequently fly six,
sometimes ten thousand miles
sometimes ten thousand miles
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Albatrosi često preleću deset,
ponekad 16 hiljada kilometara
ponekad 16 hiljada kilometara
17:23
over several weeks to deliver
one meal, one big meal,
one meal, one big meal,
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tokom nekoliko nedelja kako bi doneli
jedan obrok, jedan veliki obrok
jedan obrok, jedan veliki obrok
17:28
to their chick who is waiting for them.
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svom piletu koje ih čeka.
17:30
They nest on the most remote islands
in the oceans of the world,
in the oceans of the world,
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Gnezde se na najudaljenijim ostrvima
u svetskim okeanima,
u svetskim okeanima,
17:35
and this is what it looks like.
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a ta ostrva izgledaju ovako.
17:39
Passing life from one generation
to the next is the chain of being.
to the next is the chain of being.
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Prenošenje života s kolena na koleno
je lanac postojanja.
je lanac postojanja.
17:43
If that stops, it all goes away.
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Ako to stane, sve nestaje.
17:46
If anything is sacred, that is,
and into that sacred relationship
and into that sacred relationship
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Ako je nešto sveto, onda je to,
a u tu svetu vezu
a u tu svetu vezu
17:51
comes our plastic trash.
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upada naš plastični otpad.
17:54
All of these birds
have plastic in them now.
have plastic in them now.
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Sve ove ptice sada u sebi imaju plastiku.
17:57
This is an albatross six months old,
ready to fledge --
ready to fledge --
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Ovo je albatros star šest meseci,
spreman je da dobije perje -
spreman je da dobije perje -
18:02
died, packed with red cigarette lighters.
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umro je natrpan crvenim upaljačima.
18:06
This is not the relationship
we are supposed to have
we are supposed to have
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Ovo nije veza koju bi trebalo da imamo
18:09
with the rest of the world.
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sa ostatkom sveta.
18:11
But we, who have named
ourselves after our brains,
ourselves after our brains,
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Ali mi, koji smo se nazvali
po svojim mozgovima,
po svojim mozgovima,
18:16
never think about the consequences.
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nikada ne razmišljamo o posledicama.
18:21
When we welcome new
human life into the world,
human life into the world,
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Kada proslavljamo
dolazak novorođenčeta na svet,
dolazak novorođenčeta na svet,
18:24
we welcome our babies
into the company of other creatures.
into the company of other creatures.
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mi uvodimo naše bebe
u društvo drugih bića.
u društvo drugih bića.
18:28
We paint animals on the walls.
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Slikamo životinje po zidovima.
18:30
We don't paint cell phones.
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Ne slikamo mobilne telefone.
18:32
We don't paint work cubicles.
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Ne slikamo kancelarije.
18:34
We paint animals to show them
that we are not alone.
that we are not alone.
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Slikamo životinje kako bismo deci pokazali
da nismo sami.
da nismo sami.
18:39
We have company.
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U društvu smo.
18:42
And every one of those animals
in every painting of Noah's ark,
in every painting of Noah's ark,
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I svaka od ovih životinja
na svakoj slici Nojeve barke,
na svakoj slici Nojeve barke,
18:47
deemed worthy of salvation
is in mortal danger now,
is in mortal danger now,
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koja je bila vredna spasavanja,
sada se nalazi u smrtnoj opasnosti,
sada se nalazi u smrtnoj opasnosti,
18:51
and their flood is us.
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a njihov potop smo mi.
18:55
So we started with a question:
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Dakle, počeli smo pitanjem:
18:58
Do they love us?
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da li nas vole?
19:01
We're going to ask another question.
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Postavićemo drugo pitanje.
19:04
Are we capable of using what we have
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Da li smo u stanju da koristimo
ono što imamo
ono što imamo
19:09
to care enough to simply
let them continue?
let them continue?
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da marimo taman toliko
da im prosto dozvolimo da opstanu?
da im prosto dozvolimo da opstanu?
19:16
Thank you very much.
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Mnogo vam hvala.
19:18
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writerCarl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature.
Why you should listen
Carl Safina explores how the ocean is changing and what those changes mean for wildlife and for people.
Safina is author of seven books, including Song for the Blue Ocean, which was a New York Times Notable Book of the Year, Eye of the Albatross, Voyage of the Turtle and The View From Lazy Point. Safina is founding president of The Safina Center at Stony Brook University, where he also co-chairs the University's Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science. A winner of the 2012 Orion Award and a MacArthur Prize, among others, his work has been featured in outlets such as The New York Times, National Geographic, CNN.com and The Huffington Post, and he hosts “Saving the Ocean” on PBS.
His latest book, Beyond Words: What Animals Think And Feel, explores the inner lives of animals.
Carl Safina | Speaker | TED.com