Mission Blue II
Carl Safina: What are animals thinking and feeling?
卡尔·萨芬纳: 动物有怎样的思想和感知？
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动物的大脑中都在想些什么？我们能知道它们是否在思考和感觉，或是它们在思考和感觉着什么吗？卡尔·萨芬纳认为我们可以。通过关于生态学、生物学和行为科学的探索和奇闻轶事，他给我们讲了一些鲸鱼、狼、大象和信天翁的故事，论证了在这个地球上和我们为伴的其他生物，其实和我们一样思考、感知、使用工具和表达情绪。
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writer
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Have you ever wondered
what animals think and feel?
what animals think and feel?
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你是否疑惑过，
动物们在想些什么，它们能感觉到什么？
动物们在想些什么，它们能感觉到什么？
00:17
Let's start with a question:
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从这个问题开始吧：
00:19
Does my dog really love me,
or does she just want a treat?
or does she just want a treat?
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我的狗是真的爱我呢，
还是只是想要些吃的？
还是只是想要些吃的？
00:24
Well, it's easy to see
that our dog really loves us,
that our dog really loves us,
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其实很容易看出来，
我们的狗是真的爱我们的，
我们的狗是真的爱我们的，
00:29
easy to see, right,
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确实能很容易看出来
00:32
what's going on in that fuzzy little head.
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它的小脑袋里在想什么。
00:36
What is going on?
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那它到底在想什么呢？
00:39
Something's going on.
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想些它在想的东西啊。
00:41
But why is the question always
do they love us?
do they love us?
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可是为什么我们只关注它们是否爱我们？
为什么重心总是围绕我们？
00:46
Why is it always about us?
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00:48
Why are we such narcissists?
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我们为什么如此自恋？
00:52
I found a different question
to ask animals.
to ask animals.
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我觉得可以问动物另一个问题：
00:57
Who are you?
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你是谁？
人脑具有一些特殊能力，
01:01
There are capacities of the human mind
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01:04
that we tend to think are capacities
only of the human mind.
only of the human mind.
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我们认为这些能力
是人脑独有的。
是人脑独有的。
01:10
But is that true?
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但真是这样吗？
01:12
What are other beings
doing with those brains?
doing with those brains?
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其他动物都用脑子做些什么呢？
01:16
What are they thinking and feeling?
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它们有怎样的思想和感觉呢？
01:19
Is there a way to know?
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人类有没有方法去了解它们？
01:21
I think there is a way in.
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我觉得是可以做到的。
01:22
I think there are several ways in.
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而且有不只一种方法。
01:24
We can look at evolution,
we can look at their brains
we can look at their brains
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我们可以通过观察动物进化的历程，
观察它们的大脑结构，
观察它们的大脑结构，
01:29
and we can watch what they do.
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以及它们的行为特点。
01:33
The first thing to remember is:
our brain is inherited.
our brain is inherited.
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我们要记住的第一件事是：
人类的大脑是继承来的。
人类的大脑是继承来的。
01:38
The first neurons came from jellyfish.
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水母最先进化出神经元。
01:42
Jellyfish gave rise
to the first chordates.
to the first chordates.
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从水母演化出了第一个脊索动物。
01:45
The first chordates gave rise
to the first vertebrates.
to the first vertebrates.
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第一个脊索动物演化出了第一个脊椎动物。
01:49
The vertebrates came out of the sea,
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脊椎动物从海里出来，
01:51
and here we are.
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就有了现在的我们。
01:54
But it's still true that a neuron,
a nerve cell, looks the same
a nerve cell, looks the same
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可是不管是鸟类，小龙虾， 还是你，
02:00
in a crayfish, a bird or you.
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你们都有着一样的神经元和神经细胞。
02:04
What does that say
about the minds of crayfish?
about the minds of crayfish?
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而这些能不能告诉我们
小龙虾脑子里在想什么？
小龙虾脑子里在想什么？
02:08
Can we tell anything about that?
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我们能知道吗？
02:10
Well, it turns out that
if you give a crayfish
if you give a crayfish
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事实证明，如果一只小龙虾
02:14
a lot of little tiny electric shocks
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每当它想从地洞里爬出来的时候
02:17
every time it tries
to come out of its burrow,
to come out of its burrow,
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你就给它一个小的电击，
02:19
it will develop anxiety.
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可以导致它产生焦虑症。
02:23
If you give the crayfish the same drug
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而如果你给这只小龙虾吃药，
02:26
used to treat anxiety disorder in humans,
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吃给人类焦虑症患者一样的药，
02:29
it relaxes and comes out and explores.
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小龙虾也会放松起来， 然后继续出地洞探索。
02:34
How do we show how much
we care about crayfish anxiety?
we care about crayfish anxiety?
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而我们是怎么判断的
小龙虾是否焦虑呢？
小龙虾是否焦虑呢？
02:37
Mostly, we boil them.
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大多数情况下， 我们把它们煮了吃。
02:39
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:42
Octopuses use tools,
as well as do most apes
as well as do most apes
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章鱼会使用工具，
大多数猿类也是如此，
大多数猿类也是如此，
02:47
and they recognize human faces.
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它们还能分辨人脸。
02:50
How do we celebrate the ape-like
intelligence of this invertebrate?
intelligence of this invertebrate?
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我们对这些聪明的章鱼做了什么？
02:55
Mostly boiled.
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直接下锅。
02:58
If a grouper chases a fish
into a crevice in the coral,
into a crevice in the coral,
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如果一只石斑鱼在追赶小鱼的时候
小鱼躲进了珊瑚的裂缝，
小鱼躲进了珊瑚的裂缝，
03:02
it will sometimes go to where it knows
a moray eel is sleeping
a moray eel is sleeping
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他就会去到海鳝睡觉的地方，
03:07
and it will signal
to the moray, "Follow me,"
to the moray, "Follow me,"
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对后它会发出信号
给海鳝说：“跟我来。”
给海鳝说：“跟我来。”
03:11
and the moray will understand that signal.
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海鳝能够理解那个信号。
03:14
The moray may go into the crevice
and get the fish,
and get the fish,
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并跟着进入那个裂缝里
一起去捉小鱼，
一起去捉小鱼，
03:17
but the fish may bolt
and the grouper may get it.
and the grouper may get it.
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小鱼要是再跑出来出来，
外面石斑鱼就抓住它了。
外面石斑鱼就抓住它了。
03:20
This is an ancient partnership that we
have just recently found out about.
have just recently found out about.
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这是一个我们最近才发现的
古老的合作关系。
古老的合作关系。
而我们是怎么对待这份古老友谊的？
03:26
How do we celebrate
that ancient partnership?
that ancient partnership?
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我们炸了它们。
03:30
Mostly fried.
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03:32
A pattern is emerging and it says
a lot more about us
a lot more about us
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当我们了解的越多，
发现的多是关于我们的规律
发现的多是关于我们的规律
03:36
than it does about them.
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而不是关于它们的规律。
03:39
Sea otters use tools
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海獭会使用工具，
它们花时间给宝宝展示
它们正在做什么
它们正在做什么
03:42
and they take time away
from what they're doing
from what they're doing
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03:45
to show their babies what to do,
which is called teaching.
which is called teaching.
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好让宝宝也可以跟着它们做，
这就是教学。
这就是教学。
03:49
Chimpanzees don't teach.
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黑猩猩没有教学行为。
03:52
Killer whales teach
and killer whales share food.
and killer whales share food.
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虎鲸会教学，还会分享食物。
03:58
When evolution makes something new,
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当进化创造出新生物时，
04:00
it uses the parts it has
in stock, off the shelf,
in stock, off the shelf,
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总是在现有的基础上
04:05
before it fabricates a new twist.
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创造出新的转变。
04:07
And our brain has come to us
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我们的大脑
是经过很长的时间
演化而来的。
演化而来的。
04:10
through the enormity
of the deep sweep of time.
of the deep sweep of time.
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04:14
If you look at the human brain
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
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如果把人脑和黑猩猩的大脑
做一个对比，
做一个对比，
你会发现人脑其实就是
一个放大的猩猩脑而已。
一个放大的猩猩脑而已。
04:18
what you see is we have basically
a very big chimpanzee brain.
a very big chimpanzee brain.
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04:21
It's a good thing ours is bigger,
because we're also really insecure.
because we're also really insecure.
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我们有个大一些的大脑其实挺好的，
因为毕竟我们太缺乏安全感了。
因为毕竟我们太缺乏安全感了。
04:25
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
这是个海豚的大脑，
04:27
But, uh oh, there's a dolphin,
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更大，而且其中的沟回更多。
04:30
a bigger brain with more convolutions.
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04:34
OK, maybe you're saying,
all right, well, we see brains,
all right, well, we see brains,
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也许你会问了，
我们看到了这些大脑，
我们看到了这些大脑，
04:37
but what does that
have to say about minds?
have to say about minds?
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但是这些和心智有什么关系呢？
04:40
Well, we can see the working of the mind
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正是行为的逻辑
04:44
in the logic of behaviors.
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体现出心智。
04:46
So these elephants, you can see,
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你们看这些大象，
04:50
obviously, they are resting.
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很显然，它们是在休息。
04:53
They have found a patch of shade
under the palm trees
under the palm trees
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它们在棕榈树下找到了一块阴凉地，
它们让小象尽情休息，
04:57
under which to let their babies sleep,
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05:00
while they doze but remain vigilant.
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成年大象打着小盹但依然保持着警惕。
05:03
We make perfect sense of that image
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我们能很好地理解眼前的场景，
05:06
just as they make perfect sense
of what they're doing
of what they're doing
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就像动物们能很好地理解
它们在做什么一样。
它们在做什么一样。
05:10
because under the arc of the same sun
on the same plains,
on the same plains,
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因为在同一个太阳下，
在同一片平原上的嚎叫声，
在同一片平原上的嚎叫声，
05:13
listening to the howls
of the same dangers,
of the same dangers,
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代表着它们世世代代经历的危险，
它们变成了它们的样子，
我们变成了我们的样子。
我们变成了我们的样子。
05:17
they became who they are
and we became who we are.
and we became who we are.
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05:22
We've been neighbors for a very long time.
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长时间以来，我们都是好邻居。
05:24
No one would mistake
these elephants as being relaxed.
these elephants as being relaxed.
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没人会误认为这些大象现在是放松的。
05:28
They're obviously very
concerned about something.
concerned about something.
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很明显它们仍然保持着警觉。
05:31
What are they concerned about?
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那么它们警惕的是什么呢？
05:33
It turns out that if you record
the voices of tourists
the voices of tourists
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实际上如果你将游客的声音录下来
然后把音箱放在草丛里播放录音，
05:37
and you play that recording
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
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05:42
elephants will ignore it,
because tourists never bother elephants.
because tourists never bother elephants.
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大象是不会理你的，
因为游客是不会打扰它们的。
因为游客是不会打扰它们的。
05:46
But if you record the voices of herders
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但如果你录的是拿着长矛的
05:50
who carry spears and often hurt elephants
in confrontations at water holes,
in confrontations at water holes,
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经常在水坑里伤害大象的牧人的声音，
05:55
the elephants will bunch up
and run away from the hidden speaker.
and run away from the hidden speaker.
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大象就会聚在一起逃离
藏着音箱的那个地方。
藏着音箱的那个地方。
06:00
Not only do elephants know
that there are humans,
that there are humans,
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大象不仅仅知道那有人，
它们更知道存在着不同的人，
06:04
they know that there are
different kinds of humans,
different kinds of humans,
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有些人是无害的，
而有些人是危险的。
而有些人是危险的。
06:06
and that some are OK
and some are dangerous.
and some are dangerous.
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它们观察我们的时间比
我们观察它们的时间还要多。
我们观察它们的时间还要多。
06:10
They have been watching us for much longer
than we have been watching them.
than we have been watching them.
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06:15
They know us better than we know them.
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它们了解我们的程度也远超于
我们了解它们的程度。
我们了解它们的程度。
06:18
We have the same imperatives:
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我们跟它们都有同样的需求：
06:21
take care of our babies,
find food, try to stay alive.
find food, try to stay alive.
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照顾孩子，寻找食物，
尽力活下去。
尽力活下去。
06:26
Whether we're outfitted for hiking
in the hills of Africa
in the hills of Africa
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不管我们是在非洲的
山峦里徒步旅行，
山峦里徒步旅行，
06:30
or outfitted for diving under the sea,
we are basically the same.
we are basically the same.
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还是在深海中潜水，
我们本质上是一样的。
我们本质上是一样的。
06:34
We are kin under the skin.
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皮囊之下我们都是相同的。
06:36
The elephant has the same skeleton,
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不同的大象有同样的骨架，
06:39
the killer whale has the same skeleton,
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不同的虎鲸也有同样的骨架，
就像我们一样。
06:41
as do we.
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06:45
We see helping where help is needed.
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我们可以在需要帮助的地方找到帮助。
06:48
We see curiosity in the young.
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我们可以在年轻人中看到好奇心。
06:52
We see the bonds of family connections.
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我们可以看到家庭血缘的联系。
06:57
We recognize affection.
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我们可以认知爱情。
07:00
Courtship is courtship.
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求爱就是求爱。
07:03
And then we ask, "Are they conscious?"
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然后我们还会问：“它们有意识吗？”
07:07
When you get general anesthesia,
it makes you unconscious,
it makes you unconscious,
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如果你被全身麻醉了，
你就是无意识的，
你就是无意识的，
07:10
which means you have
no sensation of anything.
no sensation of anything.
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也就是说你对一切事物
都没有感觉了。
都没有感觉了。
意识这个东西，简单地说，
其实就是我们对事物的觉察。
其实就是我们对事物的觉察。
07:13
Consciousness is simply
the thing that feels like something.
the thing that feels like something.
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07:17
If you see, if you hear, if you feel,
if you're aware of anything,
if you're aware of anything,
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如果你看到了，听到了，感受到了，
或者注意到了一些东西，
或者注意到了一些东西，
07:21
you are conscious, and they are conscious.
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你就是有意识的，动物们也是一样。
07:27
Some people say
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有些人说，
07:28
well, there are certain things
that make humans humans,
that make humans humans,
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人之所以为人是因为
人们有一些特别的东西，
人们有一些特别的东西，
其中一样就是同感。
07:30
and one of those things is empathy.
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07:32
Empathy is the mind's ability
to match moods with your companions.
to match moods with your companions.
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同感是一种让你可以
感受同伴感情的心智能力。
感受同伴感情的心智能力。
07:39
It's a very useful thing.
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这是个很有用的能力。
07:41
If your companions start to move quickly,
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如果你的同伴们开始快速跑动，
07:43
you have to feel like
you need to hurry up.
you need to hurry up.
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你就会觉得：
“我也得快点跟上了。”
“我也得快点跟上了。”
07:45
We're all in a hurry now.
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那么大家就一起跑了起来。
07:47
The oldest form of empathy
is contagious fear.
is contagious fear.
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同感最古老的形式
是可传染的恐惧。
是可传染的恐惧。
07:50
If your companions suddenly
startle and fly away,
startle and fly away,
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如果你的同伴们受到惊吓
全都飞走了，
全都飞走了，
07:53
it does not work very well for you to say,
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然后你说出下面这句话
估计就不太妙了，
估计就不太妙了，
“天啊！为什么它们都飞走了？！”
07:55
"Jeez, I wonder why everybody just left."
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（笑声）
07:58
(Laughter)
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08:03
Empathy is old, but empathy,
like everything else in life,
like everything else in life,
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同感自古就有，但就像
生活中的其他事情一样，
生活中的其他事情一样，
08:06
comes on a sliding scale
and has its elaboration.
and has its elaboration.
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时时刻刻都存在着，
而且有它的微妙之处。
而且有它的微妙之处。
08:10
So there's basic empathy:
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
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有一种最基本的同感：那就是
如果你觉得不开心，我也会觉得不开心。
如果你觉得不开心，我也会觉得不开心。
08:14
I see you happy, it makes me happy.
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我看见你很高兴，我也会觉得很开心。
08:17
Then there's something
that I call sympathy,
that I call sympathy,
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有一种同感叫做同情心，
和同感有些区别，比如：
08:19
a little more removed:
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08:22
"I'm sorry to hear that your grandmother
has just passed away.
has just passed away.
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“听说你的祖母刚刚去世了，我感到很难过。
08:25
I don't feel that same grief,
but I get it; I know what you feel
but I get it; I know what you feel
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虽然我不是像你一样的悲伤，
但是我懂你，我知道你的感觉，
但是我懂你，我知道你的感觉，
08:29
and it concerns me."
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我很关心你。”
08:30
And then if we're motivated
to act on sympathy,
to act on sympathy,
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如果我们因为有同情心
而产生了相同的举动，
而产生了相同的举动，
那么这就是怜悯了。
08:33
I call that compassion.
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08:36
Far from being the thing
that makes us human,
that makes us human,
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跟那些塑造了人类的其它感情相比，
08:39
human empathy is far from perfect.
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人类的同感离完美也还差的远。
08:42
We round up empathic creatures,
we kill them and we eat them.
we kill them and we eat them.
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我们围捕着拥有同感的动物们，
杀掉它们，吃掉它们。
杀掉它们，吃掉它们。
08:48
Now, maybe you say OK,
well, those are different species.
well, those are different species.
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你可能会说，
嗨，毕竟我们是不同的物种嘛。
嗨，毕竟我们是不同的物种嘛。
08:50
That's just predation,
and humans are predators.
and humans are predators.
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这就是捕食啊，
人类就是捕食者啊。
人类就是捕食者啊。
08:54
But we don't treat our own kind
too well either.
too well either.
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但我们对于同类也不是很好。
09:01
People who seem to know
only one thing about animal behavior
only one thing about animal behavior
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人们似乎只了解关于
动物行为的一点，
动物行为的一点，
09:04
know that you must never attribute
human thoughts and emotions
human thoughts and emotions
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就是永远也不能
把人类的想法和情感
把人类的想法和情感
09:08
to other species.
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套在其他物种身上。
09:10
Well, I think that's silly,
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其实，我觉得这真的挺愚蠢的，
09:12
because attributing human thoughts
and emotions to other species
and emotions to other species
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因为把人类的想法和情感
套用在其他物种身上
套用在其他物种身上
09:16
is the best first guess about what
they're doing and how they're feeling,
they're doing and how they're feeling,
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是了解那些物种的行为
与感觉最好的猜测方式了，
与感觉最好的猜测方式了，
09:20
because their brains
are basically the same as ours.
are basically the same as ours.
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因为它们的大脑和我们的
基本上是相同的。
基本上是相同的。
09:24
They have the same structures.
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它们和我们有着同样的结构。
09:26
The same hormones that create
mood and motivation in us
mood and motivation in us
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创造出情感
和动机的荷尔蒙
和动机的荷尔蒙
同样也存在于它们的大脑中。
09:31
are in those brains as well.
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09:35
It is not scientific to say that they
are hungry when they're hunting
are hungry when they're hunting
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即使它们捕猎是因为饿了，
它们的舌头伸出来是因为累了，
09:40
and they're tired when
their tongues are hanging out,
their tongues are hanging out,
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09:43
and then say when they're playing
with their children
with their children
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但不能就此推断出
当它们和幼崽们玩耍时
当它们和幼崽们玩耍时
09:45
and acting joyful and happy,
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它们表现出的是高兴。
我们无法了解它们真实的感受。
09:47
we have no idea if they can possibly
be experiencing anything.
be experiencing anything.
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这真的不科学。
09:52
That is not scientific.
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09:55
So OK, so a reporter said to me,
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有个记者跟我说，
09:58
"Maybe, but how do you really know
that other animals can think and feel?"
that other animals can think and feel?"
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4308
“也许你是对的，但你怎么能真正知道
其他动物的思想和感受呢？”
其他动物的思想和感受呢？”
我就开始到处搜寻数以百计的科学文献
10:02
And I started to rifle
through all the hundreds
through all the hundreds
170
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3055
10:05
of scientific references
that I put in my book
that I put in my book
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并在书中引用了它们，
10:08
and I realized that the answer
was right in the room with me.
was right in the room with me.
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之后我才发现其实答案就在
我所处的那间屋子里。
我所处的那间屋子里。
当我的狗离开毛毯朝我走来的时候——
10:11
When my dog gets off the rug
and comes over to me --
and comes over to me --
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不是朝沙发走来，是朝我——
10:15
not to the couch, to me --
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10:17
and she rolls over on her back
and exposes her belly,
and exposes her belly,
175
605089
4177
她翻身躺下了，
露出了她的肚子，
露出了她的肚子，
10:21
she has had the thought,
"I would like my belly rubbed.
"I would like my belly rubbed.
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她肯定有这样的想法，
“我想让人给我挠挠肚子。
“我想让人给我挠挠肚子。
10:26
I know that I can go over to Carl,
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我知道走到卡尔那去肯定管用，
他会懂我的想法的。
10:29
he will understand what I'm asking.
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2313
10:32
I know I can trust him
because we're family.
because we're family.
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620084
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我可以相信他，
因为我们是一家人。
因为我们是一家人。
10:35
He'll get the job done,
and it will feel good."
and it will feel good."
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他肯定会给我挠的，
而且那感觉肯定很爽。”
而且那感觉肯定很爽。”
（笑声）
10:38
(Laughter)
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10:40
She has thought and she has felt,
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她有思想，也有情感，
10:43
and it's really not
more complicated than that.
more complicated than that.
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这真的没有多复杂。
10:46
But we see other animals
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
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但是我们看到其他的动物，
我们说道：“看！虎鲸、
我们说道：“看！虎鲸、
狼、大象！”
10:50
wolves, elephants:
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2410
不过它们自己可不是这么互相看的。
10:53
that's not how they see it."
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10:55
That tall-finned male is L41.
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643714
4294
这头高鳍的公鲸叫L41。
11:00
He's 38 years old.
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2047
他38岁。
11:02
The female right on his left side is L22.
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3472
他左侧的这头母鲸叫L22。
11:05
She's 44.
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653899
1552
她44岁。
11:07
They've known each other for decades.
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2635
它们相识几十年了。
11:10
They know exactly who they are.
192
658650
1972
它们很清楚自己是谁。
11:12
They know who their friends are.
193
660646
1551
谁是他们的朋友。
11:14
They know who their rivals are.
194
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1698
谁是他们的敌人。
11:15
Their life follows the arc of a career.
195
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2113
它们遵循着自己的生活轨迹。
11:18
They know where they are all the time.
196
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2234
它们时时刻刻都清楚自己在哪。
11:22
This is an elephant named Philo.
197
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2375
这是一头叫Philo的大象。
11:25
He was a young male.
198
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1828
他是头年轻的公象。
11:27
This is him four days later.
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675519
1818
这是四天后的他。
11:30
Humans not only can feel grief,
we create an awful lot of it.
we create an awful lot of it.
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5330
人类不仅能感到悲痛，
我们还常常制造很多的痛苦。
我们还常常制造很多的痛苦。
11:38
We want to carve their teeth.
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我们总想拔掉它们的牙。
11:42
Why can't we wait for them to die?
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难道我们就真的等不到它们死去后再说吗？
11:47
Elephants once ranged from the shores
of the Mediterranean Sea
of the Mediterranean Sea
203
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3468
大象的生活区域曾经遍布地中海的沿岸
11:51
all the way down to the Cape of Good Hope.
204
699490
2075
一路向南直到非洲的好望角。
11:53
In 1980, there were vast
strongholds of elephant range
strongholds of elephant range
205
701589
3386
到了1980年，大象的生存区
仍然分布在
仍然分布在
11:56
in Central and Eastern Africa.
206
704999
2188
中非和东非的广袤地区。
11:59
And now their range is shattered
into little shards.
into little shards.
207
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4337
而现在它们的生存空间仅仅只有
一些零零散散的小地方了。
一些零零散散的小地方了。
12:03
This is the geography of an animal
that we are driving to extinction,
that we are driving to extinction,
208
711572
4679
这就是被我们灭绝
动物的栖息地变化，
动物的栖息地变化，
12:08
a fellow being, the most
magnificent creature on land.
magnificent creature on land.
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3849
它们是我们的同胞，
这个星球上最神奇的生物。
这个星球上最神奇的生物。
12:13
Of course, we take much better care
of our wildlife in the United States.
of our wildlife in the United States.
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4028
当然了，我们对美国的
野生动物稍微好一点。
野生动物稍微好一点。
12:17
In Yellowstone National Park,
we killed every single wolf.
we killed every single wolf.
211
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4235
在黄石国家公园，
我们把狼全杀了。
我们把狼全杀了。
12:21
We killed every single wolf
south of the Canadian border, actually.
south of the Canadian border, actually.
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3449
实际上，我们把加拿大
南部边境的狼也全杀了。
南部边境的狼也全杀了。
12:25
But in the park, park rangers
did that in the 1920s,
did that in the 1920s,
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4393
20世纪90年代，
公园管理员们把狼杀光了，
公园管理员们把狼杀光了，
12:29
and then 60 years later
they had to bring them back,
they had to bring them back,
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2591
60年后，他们又得送些狼进公园里，
12:32
because the elk numbers
had gotten out of control.
had gotten out of control.
215
740445
2907
因为没有了狼，公园里的麋鹿
数量疯长不可控了。
数量疯长不可控了。
12:36
And then people came.
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1274
而且后来游客们来了，
12:37
People came by the thousands
to see the wolves,
to see the wolves,
217
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3724
数以千计的人们都想看看狼，
12:41
the most accessibly
visible wolves in the world.
visible wolves in the world.
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3495
全球只有那里能够轻易看到狼群了。
12:45
And I went there and I watched
this incredible family of wolves.
this incredible family of wolves.
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3252
我也到那去看了
难以置信的狼族。
难以置信的狼族。
12:48
A pack is a family.
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1453
这是一个狼的家族。
12:50
It has some breeding adults
and the young of several generations.
and the young of several generations.
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3575
这个家族有一些成年狼
和几代年轻的狼。
和几代年轻的狼。
12:55
And I watched the most famous, most stable
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
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4616
我去看的是黄石国家公园中
最著名的，也是最稳定的一个狼族。
最著名的，也是最稳定的一个狼族。
13:00
And then, when they wandered
just outside the border,
just outside the border,
223
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当它们就在边境线以外一点徘徊时，
13:03
two of their adults were killed,
224
771524
2681
两只成年狼就被猎杀了，
13:06
including the mother,
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2253
有一只母狼，
13:08
which we sometimes call the alpha female.
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2178
也就是我们通常叫的母头狼。
13:11
The rest of the family immediately
descended into sibling rivalry.
descended into sibling rivalry.
227
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4243
之后，狼族中剩下的成员
马上就开始了手足相残。
马上就开始了手足相残。
13:16
Sisters kicked out other sisters.
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2241
狼姐妹之间相互驱离。
13:19
That one on the left tried for days
to rejoin her family.
to rejoin her family.
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787565
3481
在左边的那一只为重新融入
自己的家族而努力了好几天。
自己的家族而努力了好几天。
13:23
They wouldn't let her
because they were jealous of her.
because they were jealous of her.
230
791070
2692
然而其他狼不准，
她受到嫉妒。
她受到嫉妒。
13:25
She was getting too much attention
from two new males,
from two new males,
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2813
有两头公狼简直对她垂涎欲滴。
13:28
and she was the precocious one.
232
796623
2018
她很早熟。
13:30
That was too much for them.
233
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1653
这是它们完全忍不了的。
13:32
She wound up wandering
outside the park and getting shot.
outside the park and getting shot.
234
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2725
她到了公园外面徘徊，然后被猎杀了。
13:36
The alpha male wound up
being ejected from his own family.
being ejected from his own family.
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3409
一只公头狼也被赶出了那个家族。
13:40
As winter was coming in,
236
808436
2003
当冬天逐渐来临，
13:42
he lost his territory,
his hunting support,
his hunting support,
237
810463
3750
他失去了他的领地，
失去了他的捕食帮手，
失去了他的捕食帮手，
13:46
the members of his family and his mate.
238
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2471
失去了他的家庭成员和妻子。
13:50
We cause so much pain to them.
239
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3624
我们对它们造成太多的伤害了。
13:55
The mystery is, why don't
they hurt us more than they do?
they hurt us more than they do?
240
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4960
可问题是，为什么它们不会那样伤害我们呢？
14:01
This whale had just finished eating
part of a grey whale
part of a grey whale
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3198
这头鲸鱼刚刚吃了一只灰色鲸鱼的残尸，
14:05
with his companions
who had killed that whale.
who had killed that whale.
242
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2579
那灰色的鲸鱼是它和它的同伴们一起猎杀的。
14:07
Those people in the boat
had nothing at all to fear.
had nothing at all to fear.
243
835680
3084
而那些船里的人们根本无所畏惧。
14:11
This whale is T20.
244
839999
1989
这只鲸鱼叫T20。
14:14
He had just finished tearing a seal
into three pieces with two companions.
into three pieces with two companions.
245
842488
4251
它刚和它的两个同伴刚刚
把一只海豹撕成了三段。
把一只海豹撕成了三段。
14:19
The seal weighed about as much
as the people in the boat.
as the people in the boat.
246
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2692
那只海豹和那些船里的人们差不多重。
14:21
They had nothing to fear.
247
849884
1503
他们还是什么都不怕。
14:24
They eat seals.
248
852189
1422
它们吃海豹。
14:26
Why don't they eat us?
249
854699
1686
可为什么它们不吃我们呢？
14:30
Why can we trust them around our toddlers?
250
858823
3760
为什么当它们靠近我们的孩子时
我们仍然信任它们？
我们仍然信任它们？
14:36
Why is it that killer whales have returned
to researchers lost in thick fog
to researchers lost in thick fog
251
864488
5902
为什么虎鲸在大雾天会到海上研究员那里
14:42
and led them miles until the fog parted
252
870414
3330
指引他们一直到数英里以外浓雾散去
14:45
and the researchers' home
was right there on the shoreline?
was right there on the shoreline?
253
873768
3165
到达那些研究员的家所在的海岸边？
14:48
And that's happened more than one time.
254
876957
2016
而且这种情况还不止一次发生。
14:53
In the Bahamas, there's a woman
named Denise Herzing,
named Denise Herzing,
255
881171
2575
在巴哈马群岛，
有个叫Denise Herzing的女人，
有个叫Denise Herzing的女人，
14:55
and she studies spotted dolphins
and they know her.
and they know her.
256
883770
3324
她研究斑海豚，那些斑海豚也认识她。
14:59
She knows them very well.
She knows who they all are.
She knows who they all are.
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887118
2598
她非常了解它们。
她能认出来它们每一只都是谁。
她能认出来它们每一只都是谁。
15:01
They know her.
They recognize the research boat.
They recognize the research boat.
258
889740
2262
它们也了解她。
它们能认出来那艘调查船。
它们能认出来那艘调查船。
15:04
When she shows up,
it's a big happy reunion.
it's a big happy reunion.
259
892026
2230
她每次出现的时候，
简直就是一次欢庆的重逢。
简直就是一次欢庆的重逢。
15:06
Except, one time showed up and they
didn't want to come near the boat,
didn't want to come near the boat,
260
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3315
只有一次，她出现的时候，
它们并不想靠近那艘船，
它们并不想靠近那艘船，
15:09
and that was really strange.
261
897619
2074
那次确实是挺奇怪的。
15:11
And they couldn't figure out
what was going on
what was going on
262
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2164
人们都弄不清楚是怎么回事，
15:13
until somebody came out on deck
263
901905
1500
直到有人来到了甲板上
15:15
and announced that one
of the people onboard had died
of the people onboard had died
264
903429
2635
告诉了人们他们船上的一个人
在床上打盹的时候
在床上打盹的时候
15:18
during a nap in his bunk.
265
906088
1771
去世了。
15:20
How could dolphins know
that one of the human hearts
that one of the human hearts
266
908740
3926
海豚是怎么知道
那其中的一个人
那其中的一个人
15:24
had just stopped?
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心脏停止了跳动呢？
15:26
Why would they care?
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为什么它们会关心这个呢？
15:29
And why would it spook them?
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为什么这把它们吓住了呢？
15:33
These mysterious things just hint at
all of the things that are going on
all of the things that are going on
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这些奇妙的事情就是在这个地球上
和我们一起生存的生物的大脑中
和我们一起生存的生物的大脑中
15:38
in the minds that are with us on Earth
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时时刻刻在发生着的，
15:41
that we almost never think about at all.
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而我们对这些却根本毫不关心。
15:46
At an aquarium in South Africa
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在南非的一个水族馆里，
15:48
was a little baby bottle-nosed
dolphin named Dolly.
dolphin named Dolly.
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有一只叫Dolly的小宽吻海豚。
15:52
She was nursing, and one day
a keeper took a cigarette break
a keeper took a cigarette break
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它还在哺乳期，有一天，
一个饲养员在抽烟休息，
一个饲养员在抽烟休息，
他一边抽着烟，一边透过玻璃
看着那些水里的海豚。
看着那些水里的海豚。
15:58
and he was looking into the window
into their pool, smoking.
into their pool, smoking.
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Dolly过去看了一下他，
16:02
Dolly came over and looked at him,
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然后回到它妈妈身边，
大概吃了一两分钟的奶，
大概吃了一两分钟的奶，
16:04
went back to her mother,
nursed for a minute or two,
nursed for a minute or two,
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16:08
came back to the window
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之后又回到了玻璃边，
16:10
and released a cloud of milk
that enveloped her head like smoke.
that enveloped her head like smoke.
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吐出了一口奶，那些“奶烟”
笼罩在它的头上，就像人们抽烟一样。
笼罩在它的头上，就像人们抽烟一样。
16:16
Somehow, this baby bottle-nosed dolphin
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不知怎么的，这只小宽吻海豚
16:19
got the idea of using milk
to represent smoke.
to represent smoke.
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竟然想到了用吐奶来代表抽烟。
16:24
When human beings use one thing
to represent another,
to represent another,
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当人类用一个事物去代表另一样事物，
16:27
we call that art.
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我们便称之为艺术。
（笑声）
16:29
(Laughter)
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16:31
The things that make us human
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真正使我们成为人类的东西
16:33
are not the things
that we think make us human.
that we think make us human.
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其实并不是那些我们认为的
使我们成为人类的东西。
使我们成为人类的东西。
16:36
What makes us human is that,
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真正让我们成为人类的东西其实是
16:39
of all these things that our minds
and their minds have,
and their minds have,
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那些我们和动物们
都有的心智活动，
都有的心智活动，
但我们却是最极端的。
16:42
we are the most extreme.
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16:46
We are the most compassionate,
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在这个星球上
16:48
most violent, most creative
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我们是最有同情心
也最暴力
也最暴力
16:51
and most destructive animal
that has ever been on this planet,
that has ever been on this planet,
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4660
最有创造力
也最具破坏性的动物，
也最具破坏性的动物，
我们是所有这些特征的结合体。
16:56
and we are all of those things
all jumbled up together.
all jumbled up together.
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3724
17:01
But love is not the thing
that makes us human.
that makes us human.
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并不是爱让人得以为人。
17:06
It's not special to us.
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爱不是我们特有的。
17:09
We are not the only ones
who care about our mates.
who care about our mates.
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我们并不是唯一会关心同伴的生物。
17:13
We are not the only ones
who care about our children.
who care about our children.
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我们并不是唯一会照顾孩子的生物。
17:18
Albatrosses frequently fly six,
sometimes ten thousand miles
sometimes ten thousand miles
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信天翁经常飞到六千多英里，
有时甚至是一万多英里外，
有时甚至是一万多英里外，
17:23
over several weeks to deliver
one meal, one big meal,
one meal, one big meal,
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飞好几个星期去找寻
一份食物，一份大餐，
一份食物，一份大餐，
17:28
to their chick who is waiting for them.
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1976
回去喂食给等待它们的幼鸟。
17:30
They nest on the most remote islands
in the oceans of the world,
in the oceans of the world,
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4398
它们在大海里最偏远的岛屿上筑巢，
17:35
and this is what it looks like.
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这就是那些巢穴的样子。
17:39
Passing life from one generation
to the next is the chain of being.
to the next is the chain of being.
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4180
生命一代一代向下相传，
铸成了生命的联结。
铸成了生命的联结。
17:43
If that stops, it all goes away.
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如果这停止了，一切就消失了。
17:46
If anything is sacred, that is,
and into that sacred relationship
and into that sacred relationship
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4650
如果有东西是神圣的，那么信天翁就是，
在它们这种神圣的关系中
在它们这种神圣的关系中
17:51
comes our plastic trash.
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2831
出现了我们的塑料垃圾。
17:54
All of these birds
have plastic in them now.
have plastic in them now.
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1062504
2687
现在所有这些鸟的身体里都有塑料。
17:57
This is an albatross six months old,
ready to fledge --
ready to fledge --
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1065990
4651
这是一只六个月大的信天翁，
刚要长羽毛——
刚要长羽毛——
18:02
died, packed with red cigarette lighters.
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4001
却死于肚子里塞满的红色打火机。
18:06
This is not the relationship
we are supposed to have
we are supposed to have
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3285
这不是我们和这个世界其他生物之间
18:09
with the rest of the world.
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1077999
1586
应有的关系。
我们常常以我们优秀的大脑自居，
18:11
But we, who have named
ourselves after our brains,
ourselves after our brains,
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3324
18:16
never think about the consequences.
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却根本从来都没考虑过后果。
18:21
When we welcome new
human life into the world,
human life into the world,
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3120
当我们欢迎来到这个世界上的新生命时，
18:24
we welcome our babies
into the company of other creatures.
into the company of other creatures.
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4503
我们常常让我们的宝宝
与其他的生物作伴。
与其他的生物作伴。
18:28
We paint animals on the walls.
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2093
我们把动物的图案涂绘在墙上。
我们不会画手机。
18:30
We don't paint cell phones.
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18:32
We don't paint work cubicles.
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我们不会画工作间。
18:34
We paint animals to show them
that we are not alone.
that we are not alone.
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我们画动物给宝宝们看，
让他们知道我们并不孤单。
让他们知道我们并不孤单。
18:39
We have company.
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我们还有它们陪伴。
18:42
And every one of those animals
in every painting of Noah's ark,
in every painting of Noah's ark,
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在每一幅诺亚方舟画上的每一种动物，
18:47
deemed worthy of salvation
is in mortal danger now,
is in mortal danger now,
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那些应该被拯救的动物
现在都处于灭绝的危险中。
现在都处于灭绝的危险中。
18:51
and their flood is us.
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而我们就是他们的灭顶之灾。
18:55
So we started with a question:
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所以我们是从这个问题开始的：
18:58
Do they love us?
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它们爱我们吗？
19:01
We're going to ask another question.
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而现在我们要问另外一个问题。
19:04
Are we capable of using what we have
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我们有没有竭尽所能地
19:09
to care enough to simply
let them continue?
let them continue?
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去在乎他们的未来？
19:16
Thank you very much.
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非常感谢。
19:18
(Applause)
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（掌声)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writerCarl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature.
Why you should listen
Carl Safina explores how the ocean is changing and what those changes mean for wildlife and for people.
Safina is author of seven books, including Song for the Blue Ocean, which was a New York Times Notable Book of the Year, Eye of the Albatross, Voyage of the Turtle and The View From Lazy Point. Safina is founding president of The Safina Center at Stony Brook University, where he also co-chairs the University's Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science. A winner of the 2012 Orion Award and a MacArthur Prize, among others, his work has been featured in outlets such as The New York Times, National Geographic, CNN.com and The Huffington Post, and he hosts “Saving the Ocean” on PBS.
His latest book, Beyond Words: What Animals Think And Feel, explores the inner lives of animals.
Carl Safina | Speaker | TED.com