TEDGlobal 2010
Julian Assange: Why the world needs WikiLeaks
Julian Assange: Zergatik behar du munduak WikiLeaks
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Hain eztabaidatua den Wikileaks webguneak dokumentu eta bideo ezkutuak bildu eta argitaratzen ditu. Julian Assange bere sortzailea, AEBetako agintariek galdekatu nahirik dabiltzana, TED-eko Chris Andersonekin arituko da atariaren funtzionamenduaz, bere lorpenez -- eta zerk bultzatzen duen . Solasaldian oraintsu AEBek Bagdaden burututako egazkin eraso baten material grafikoa ikus daiteke.
Julian Assange - Whistleblower
Internet activist Julian Assange serves as spokesperson for WikiLeaks, a controversial, volunteer-driven website that publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct. Full bio
Internet activist Julian Assange serves as spokesperson for WikiLeaks, a controversial, volunteer-driven website that publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Chris Anderson: Julian, welcome.
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Chris Anderson: Ongi etorri, Julian.
00:17
It's been reported that WikiLeaks, your baby,
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Jakin izan dugu Wikileaks-ek, zure haurrak,
00:19
has, in the last few years
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azken urte gutxitan
00:21
has released more classified documents
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argitaratu dituela dokumentu ezkutu gehiago
00:24
than the rest of the world's media combined.
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munduko beste komunikabide guziek batera baino.
00:26
Can that possibly be true?
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Posible izan al daiteke ?
00:28
Julian Assange: Yeah, can it possibly be true?
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Julian Assange: Bai, posible izan al daiteke ?
00:30
It's a worry -- isn't it? -- that the rest of the world's media
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Kezkagarria, ez da? --munduko beste komunikabide guziak
00:33
is doing such a bad job
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bere lanean hain gaizki aritzea
00:35
that a little group of activists
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eta ekintzaile talde txiki bat
00:37
is able to release more
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gai izatea gehiago argitaratzeko
00:39
of that type of information
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horrelako informazioa
00:41
than the rest of the world press combined.
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munduko gainantzeko prensa guzia batera baino.
00:43
CA: How does it work?
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CA: Nola funtzioantzen du ?
00:45
How do people release the documents?
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Jendeak nola argitaratzen ditu dokumentuak ?
00:48
And how do you secure their privacy?
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Eta nola gordetzen duzue bere pribatasuna ?
00:51
JA: So these are -- as far as we can tell --
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JA: Hauek -- esan dezakeguna da --
00:53
classical whistleblowers,
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informatzaile klasikoak direla.
00:55
and we have a number of ways for them
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Eta bide desberdinak ditugu beraiek
00:57
to get information to us.
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informazioa helarazi diezaguten.
00:59
So we use this state-of-the-art encryption
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Goi mailako enkriptazioa erabiltzen dugu
01:01
to bounce stuff around the Internet, to hide trails,
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informazioa batetik bestera helarazteko, arrastoak ezkutatzeko,
01:03
pass it through legal jurisdictions
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jurisdikzio legaletatik zehar aritzeko,
01:05
like Sweden and Belgium
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Suezia edo Belgika bezala,
01:08
to enact those legal protections.
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babes legal hori lortzeko.
01:12
We get information in the mail,
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Informazioa postaz jasotzen dugu,
01:14
the regular postal mail,
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ohiko postaz,
01:17
encrypted or not,
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enkriptatua ala ez,
01:19
vet it like a regular news organization, format it --
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edozein komunikabidek bezela aztertzen dugu, formatua eman --
01:22
which is sometimes something that's quite hard to do,
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batzutan nahiko zaila egiten zaigun arren,
01:25
when you're talking about
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kotutan izanik
01:27
giant databases of information --
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datu base erraldoietaz ari garela --
01:29
release it to the public
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argitara ateratzen dugu
01:31
and then defend ourselves
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eta ondoren geure burua defenditu
01:33
against the inevitable legal and political attacks.
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saieztezinak diren eraso politiko eta legalez.
01:36
CA: So you make an effort to ensure
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CA: Beraz, saiatzen zarete ziurtatzen
01:38
the documents are legitimate,
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dokumentuak egiazkoak direla.
01:40
but you actually
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Baino benetan
01:42
almost never know who the identity of the source is?
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ez duzue ia inoiz informazioaren jatorria ezagutzen.
01:45
JA: That's right, yeah. Very rarely do we ever know,
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JA: Hala da, bai. Oso gutxitan jakiten dugu.
01:49
and if we find out at some stage
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Eta inoiz enteratuko bagina
01:52
then we destroy that information as soon as possible.
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lehen bait lehen informazioa desegiten dugu.
01:55
(Phone ring) God damn it.
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(Telefono dei bat) Madarikatua.
01:57
(Laughter)
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(Barreak)
02:01
CA: I think that's the CIA asking what the code is
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CA: Uste dut CIA-koak dituzula galdezka
02:03
for a TED membership.
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TEDen bazkide egiteko kodea zein den jakin nahian.
02:05
(Laughter)
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(Barreak)
02:08
So let's take [an] example, actually.
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Ongi, har dezagun adibide bat,
02:10
This is something
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Honako hau
02:12
you leaked a few years ago.
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orain dela urte batzuk filtratu zenuten.
02:14
If we can have this document up ...
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Dokumentu hau erakusterik bagenu...
02:16
So this was a story in Kenya a few years ago.
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Duela urte batzuk Kenian gertatutako kontu bat da.
02:18
Can you tell us what you leaked and what happened?
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Esan diezagukezu zer filtratu zenuten eta zer geratu zen?
02:21
JA: So this is the Kroll Report.
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JA: Hau Kroll Txostena da.
02:23
This was a secret intelligence report
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Inteliligentziaren txosten sekretu bat zen
02:26
commissioned by the Kenyan government
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Keniako gobernuak agindutakoa
02:28
after its election in 2004.
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2004.ean hautatuak izan ondoren.
02:31
Prior to 2004, Kenya was ruled
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2004 aurretik, Kenian agintari
02:33
by Daniel arap Moi
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Daniel arap Moi izan zen
02:35
for about 18 years.
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18 urtez jarraian.
02:37
He was a soft dictator of Kenya.
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Kenyako diktadore bigun bat izan zen.
02:40
And when Kibaki got into power --
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Eta Kibaki agintera iritsi zenean --
02:42
through a coalition of forces that were trying
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saiatu ziren indar kualizio baten bitartez
02:44
to clean up corruption in Kenya --
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Keniako korrupzioa garbitzen --
02:46
they commissioned this report,
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txosten hau agindu zuten,
02:48
spent about two million pounds
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bi milloi libera gastatu zituzten
02:50
on this and an associated report.
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honetan eta berarekin zetorren txostenean.
02:52
And then the government sat on it
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Gero gobernuak ezkutatu egin zuen
02:55
and used it for political leverage on Moi,
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eta Moiren aurkako palanka politiko gisa erabili,
02:57
who was the richest man --
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orduko gizonik aberatsena zena --
02:59
still is the richest man -- in Kenya.
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oraindik gizonik aberatsena da -- Kenian.
03:02
It's the Holy Grail of Kenyan journalism.
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Bera da Keniako kazetaritzaren altxorra.
03:05
So I went there in 2007,
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Horrela haruntz joan nintzen 2007an,
03:08
and we managed to get hold of this
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eta hura lortzea lortu genuen
03:10
just prior to the election --
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justu hateskundeen aurretik --
03:12
the national election, December 28.
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Abenduaren 28ko hauteskundeetan.
03:17
When we released that report,
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Erreportai hau argitaratu genuen,
03:20
we did so three days after the new president, Kibaki,
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Kibaki presidente berriak 3 egun geroago,
03:23
had decided to pal up with
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pakeak egitea erabaki ondoren
03:25
the man that he was going to clean out,
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garbitzera zijoan gizon harekin,
03:27
Daniel arap Moi,
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Daniel arap Moi.
03:29
so this report then
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Horrela txosten hau
03:32
became a dead albatross
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karga bat bihurtu zen
03:34
around President Kibaki's neck.
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Kibaki presidentearen bizkarrean.
03:38
CA: And -- I mean, to cut a long story short --
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CA: Eta -- historia luze hau laburtzeko --
03:41
word of the report leaked into Kenya,
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Kenian informazio hau filtratu zen,
03:44
not from the official media, but indirectly,
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ez komunikabide ofizialetatik, zeharka baizik.
03:47
and in your opinion, it actually shifted the election.
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Eta zure iritziz, eragina izan zuen hauteskundeetan.
03:50
JA: Yeah. So this became front page of the Guardian
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JA: Bai. Orduan The Guardian-en portada bilakatu zen
03:53
and was then printed in all the surrounding countries of Kenya,
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eta Kenyaren inguruko herri guzietan argitaratu zen,
03:56
in Tanzanian and South African press.
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Tanzania eta Hego Afrikako komunikabideetan.
03:59
And so it came in from the outside.
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Eta horrela iritsi zen kanpotik.
04:01
And that, after a couple of days,
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Eta, egun batzuk geroago,
04:03
made the Kenyan press feel safe to talk about it.
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Keniako prensa seguru sentitu zen hortaz aritzeko.
04:05
And it ran for 20 nights straight on Kenyan TV,
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Eta Kenyako Telebistan 20 gauetan jarraian aritu ziren,
04:08
shifted the vote by 10 percent,
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bozketak ehuneko 10-ean aldatu zituen,
04:11
according to a Kenyan intelligence report,
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Kenyako inteligentzia txosten baten arabera,
04:13
which changed the result of the election.
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auteskundeen emaitzak aldatu zituen.
04:15
CA: Wow, so your leak
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CA: Wow, orduan zuen filtrazioak
04:17
really substantially changed the world?
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benetan nabarmen aldatu zuen mundua?
04:19
JA: Yep.
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JA: Bai.
04:21
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
04:25
CA: Here's -- We're going to just show
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CA: Hara -- Azaltzera goaz
04:27
a short clip from this
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bideo zati motz honetan
04:30
Baghdad airstrike video.
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Baghdaden izandako egazkin eraso bat.
04:32
The video itself is longer,
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Bideoa bera luzeagoa da.
04:34
but here's a short clip.
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Baina honakoa zati motz bat da.
04:36
This is -- this is intense material, I should warn you.
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Hau -- material gogorra da, abisatzen zaituztet.
04:39
Radio: ... just fuckin', once you get on 'em just open 'em up.
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Irratia: ...beraien gainera iritsi orduko, txikitu itzazue.
04:42
I see your element, uh, got about four Humvees, uh, out along ...
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Zure tropa ikusten dut, lau bat Humvee ditut, uh, gertu ...
04:46
You're clear. All right. Firing.
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Baimena duzu.Ados. Sua.
04:49
Let me know when you've got them. Let's shoot.
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Esan noiz dauzkazun. Tiro egin dezagun.
04:52
Light 'em all up.
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Erre ditzagun danak.
04:54
C'mon, fire!
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Ekin suari!
04:56
(Machine gun fire)
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(Tirokatzen )
04:59
Keep shoot 'n. Keep shoot 'n.
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Jarraitu tiroka. Jarraitu botatzen.
05:02
(Machine gun fire)
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(Tirokatzen)
05:05
Keep shoot 'n.
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Jarraitu tirokatzen.
05:08
Hotel ... Bushmaster Two-Six, Bushmaster Two-Six,
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Hotel... Bushmaster Two-Six, Bushmaster Two-Six,
05:10
we need to move, time now!
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mugitu beharra daukagu, oraintxe!
05:12
All right, we just engaged all eight individuals.
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Ados, zortzi tipo oraintxe eraso ditugu.
05:15
Yeah, we see two birds [helicopters], and we're still firing.
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Bai, bi txori ikusten [helikopteroak], eta tiroka jarraitzen dugu.
05:18
Roger. I got 'em.
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Roger. Hemen ditut.
05:20
Two-Six, this is Two-Six, we're mobile.
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Two-Six, hemen Two-Six, abian goaz.
05:22
Oops, I'm sorry. What was going on?
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Oops, barkatu. Zer gertatzen zen?
05:24
God damn it, Kyle. All right, hahaha. I hit 'em.
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Arraioa, Kyle. Hori bai, hahaha. Eman diet..
05:29
CA: So, what was the impact of that?
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CA: Eta zein izan zen honen eragina?
05:32
JA: The impact on the people who worked on it
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JA: Honetan lanean aritu zen jendearengan
05:35
was severe.
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gogorra izan zen.
05:37
We ended up sending two people to Baghdad
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Bukaeran 2 lagun bidali genituen Baghdadera
05:39
to further research that story.
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historia hau sakonki ikertzera.
05:41
So this is just the first of three attacks
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Beraz hau hiru erasoetatik lehenena da
05:44
that occurred in that scene.
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eszena hartan gertatu zena.
05:46
CA: So, I mean, 11 people died in that attack, right,
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CA: Orduan oker ez banaiz 11 pertsona hil ziren erasoan,
05:48
including two Reuters employees?
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horien artean Reuters-eko bi langile ?
05:50
JA: Yeah. Two Reuters employees,
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Bai, Reuters-eko bi langile,
05:52
two young children were wounded.
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bi ume gazte zaurituak izan ziren.
05:55
There were between 18 and 26 people killed all together.
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Denera 18 tik 26 pertsona bitartean erahil zituzten.
05:58
CA: And releasing this caused
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CA: Eta gertaera hau argitaratzean
06:00
widespread outrage.
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eskandalua eragin zuen.
06:02
What was the key element of this
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Zeintzuk dira honen gakoak
06:04
that actually caused the outrage, do you think?
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oraindik ere eskandalua sortarazteko, zure ustetan?
06:07
JA: I don't know. I guess people can see
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JA: Ez dakit ba, Suposatzen dut jendeak ikus dezakela
06:09
the gross disparity in force.
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indar desoreka zeharo nabarmena.
06:12
You have guys walking in a relaxed way down the street,
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Batetik pertsonak ditugu paseatzen lasai asko kaletik zehar,
06:14
and then an Apache helicopter sitting up at one kilometer
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eta orduan Apatxe helikoptero bat kilometro batetara kokatuz
06:17
firing 30-millimeter cannon shells
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30-milimetroko munizioaz jo ta su
06:19
on everyone --
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edozeinengan --
06:21
looking for any excuse to do so --
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edozer eskusaren bila hala aritzeko --
06:24
and killing people rescuing the wounded.
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eta zaurituak laguntzera zioazenak tirokatzen.
06:26
And there was two journalists involved that clearly weren't insurgents
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Eta bi kazetari zeuden bertan nabarmen matxinatuak ez zirenak
06:29
because that's their full-time job.
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bere eguneroko lanean ari zirenak.
06:33
CA: I mean, there's been this U.S. intelligence analyst,
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CA: Alegia, AEBtako inteligentziako analista bat,
06:36
Bradley Manning, arrested,
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Bradley Manning, atxilotua izan zen.
06:38
and it's alleged that he confessed in a chat room
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Esaten da berak aitortu zuela chat room batetan
06:41
to have leaked this video to you,
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bideo hau zuei filtratu izana,
06:44
along with 280,000
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beste 280,000
06:46
classified U.S. embassy cables.
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AEBetako enbaxadetako kable ezkutuekin batera.
06:48
I mean, did he?
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Tira, hala egin zuen ?
06:51
JA: We have denied receiving those cables.
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JA: Guk kable horiek jaso izana ezeztatu dugu.
06:53
He has been charged,
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Leporatu zioten,
06:55
about five days ago,
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orain dela 5bat egun,
06:57
with obtaining 150,000 cables
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150,000 kable eskuratu eta
07:00
and releasing 50.
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50 zabaltzea.
07:02
Now, we had released,
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Orain, argitaratu dugu
07:05
early in the year,
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urte hasieran
07:07
a cable from the Reykjavik U.S. embassy,
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Reykjavikeko AEBetako enbaxadako kable bat.
07:11
but this is not necessarily connected.
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Baina hau ez dago derrigorrezko elkarlotuta.
07:13
I mean, I was a known visitor of that embassy.
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Esan nahi dut, neu enbaxa horretako bisitaria nintzela.
07:15
CA: I mean, if you did receive thousands
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CA: Hau da, jasoko bazenitu milaka
07:17
of U.S. embassy diplomatic cables ...
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AEBetako embaxadako kable diplomatiko...
07:20
JA: We would have released them. (CA: You would?)
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JA: Argitaratu egingo genituen. (CA: Benetan ?)
07:22
JA: Yeah. (CA: Because?)
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JA: Bai (CA: Zergatik?)
07:25
JA: Well, because these sort of things
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JA: Ba, horrelako gauzak
07:27
reveal what the true state
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erakusten dutelako benetako izaera
07:30
of, say,
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esate baterako,
07:32
Arab governments are like,
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Gobernu Arabiarrak nolakoak diren,
07:34
the true human-rights abuses in those governments.
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eta gobernu hauetako giza eskubideen aurkako gehiegikeriak
07:37
If you look at declassified cables,
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Kable klasifikatuei begiratu ezkero,
07:39
that's the sort of material that's there.
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gisa honetako informazioa dago.
07:41
CA: So let's talk a little more broadly about this.
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CA: Ba hitzegin dezagun zabalago hontaz.
07:43
I mean, in general, what's your philosophy?
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Orokorrean, zein da zuen filosofia?
07:45
Why is it right
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Zergatik dago ondo
07:47
to encourage leaking of secret information?
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informazio sekretuen filtrazioak bultzatzea?
07:51
JA: Well, there's a question as to what sort of information is important in the world,
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JA: Tira, galdera da zer motatako informazioa den inportantea munduarentzat,
07:54
what sort of information
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zein informazio motak
07:56
can achieve reform.
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lor dezaken aldaketa.
07:58
And there's a lot of information.
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Eta informazio asko dago.
08:00
So information that organizations
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Erakundeak informazio hau
08:02
are spending economic effort into concealing,
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saihesteko esfortzu ekonomikoak egiten ari dira,
08:05
that's a really good signal
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hau seinale ona da
08:07
that when the information gets out,
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eta informazioa kaleratzen denean,
08:09
there's a hope of it doing some good --
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itxaropena dugu zerbait ona egiten ari garela.
08:11
because the organizations that know it best,
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Zeren hontaz gehien dakiten erakundeak,
08:13
that know it from the inside out,
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barrutik ezagutzen dutenak,
08:15
are spending work to conceal it.
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ahaleginak egiten ari dira ezkutatzeko.
08:18
And that's what we've found in practice,
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Eta hori da praktikan aurkitu duguna.
08:20
and that's what the history of journalism is.
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Horrela izan da kazetaritzaren historia.
08:23
CA: But are there risks with that,
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CA: Baina arriskurik ba al da
08:26
either to the individuals concerned
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batetik inplikatuta daudenentzat
08:29
or indeed to society at large,
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edo gizartearentzat orokorrean,
08:31
where leaking can actually have
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filtrazioak benetan
08:33
an unintended consequence?
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espero ez diren ondorioak izateko?
08:35
JA: Not that we have seen with anything we have released.
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JA: Ez behintzat argitaratu dugunarekin ikusi dugunaren arabera.
08:37
I mean, we have a harm immunization policy.
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Alegia, kaltearen aurrean babes politika bat dugu.
08:39
We have a way of dealing with information
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Informazioa tratatzeko modu bat daukagu
08:41
that has sort of personal --
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nolabait bere edukian --
08:43
personally identifying information in it.
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pertsonak identifikatzen badira.
08:46
But there are legitimate secrets --
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Baino ba dira zilegi diren sekretuak --
08:49
you know, your records with your doctor;
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esate baterako, zure osasun historia;
08:52
that's a legitimate secret --
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hori zilegi den sekretua da.
08:54
but we deal with whistleblowers that are coming forward
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Tratatzen ditugun informatzaileak aurreratzen zaizkigu
08:56
that are really sort of well-motivated.
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eta oso motibatuak daude.
08:59
CA: So they are well-motivated.
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CA: Oso motibatuak daude beraz.
09:01
And what would you say to, for example,
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Eta zer esango zenioke, adibidez,
09:03
the, you know, the parent of someone
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badakizu, norbaiten aitari...
09:06
whose son is out serving the U.S. military,
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bere semea atzerrian AEBtako-ko armadan izanik,
09:09
and he says, "You know what,
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eta esaten du, "Badakizute ,
09:11
you've put up something that someone had an incentive to put out.
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zuek agerian jarri duzuena, norbaitek interesa zuen gordetzeko.
09:13
It shows a U.S. soldier laughing
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AEBetako soldadu bat barrez erakusten du
09:15
at people dying.
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hiltzen ari diren pertsonei.
09:17
That gives the impression, has given the impression,
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Horrek ematen duen itxura -- eman digun itxura
09:19
to millions of people around the world
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milloika pertsonei munduan zehar
09:21
that U.S. soldiers are inhuman people.
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Amerikar soldaduak anker batzuk direla.
09:23
Actually, they're not. My son isn't. How dare you?"
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Eta ez dira. Nire semea ez. Nola ausartzen zarete?"
09:25
What would you say to that?
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Ze esango zenioke horri?
09:27
JA: Yeah, we do get a lot of that.
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JA: Bai, horrelako asko ditugu.
09:29
But remember, the people in Baghdad,
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Baina gogoratu, Baghdaden dagoen jendeak,
09:31
the people in Iraq, the people in Afghanistan --
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Iraken dagoenak, Afghanistanen dagoenak --
09:34
they don't need to see the video;
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ez dute bideoa ikusi beharrik;
09:36
they see it every day.
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Haiek egunero ikusten dute.
09:38
So it's not going to change their opinion. It's not going to change their perception.
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Beraz ez dute bere iritzia aldatuko, edo bere pertzepzioa.
09:41
That's what they see every day.
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Egunero ikusten dutena da.
09:43
It will change the perception and opinion
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Horrek ikuspuntua eta iritzia aldaraziko dio
09:46
of the people who are paying for it all,
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guzti hori zergekin ordaintzen duen jendeari.
09:48
and that's our hope.
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Hori da gure itxaropena.
09:51
CA: So you found a way to shine light
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CA: Beraz aurkitu duzute modu bat
09:54
into what you see
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zuen iritziz
09:57
as these sort of dark secrets in companies and in government.
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gobernuek eta erakundeek dituzten sekretu ilunak argitzeko.
10:01
Light is good.
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Argitasuna ona da.
10:03
But do you see any irony in the fact that,
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Baina ez al duzu ironiarik ikusten,
10:05
in order for you to shine that light,
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zuk argi hori pizteko,
10:07
you have to, yourself,
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zuk, zerorrek,
10:09
create secrecy around your sources?
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zure iturrien inguruan sekretua sortu beharra ?
10:12
JA: Not really. I mean, we don't have
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JA: Ez batere. Guk ez bait dugu
10:15
any WikiLeaks dissidents yet.
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oraindik Wikileaks-en disidentziarik.
10:19
We don't have sources who are dissidents on other sources.
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Ez dugu iturririk beste informazio iturrien disidente direnik.
10:23
Should they come forward, that would be a tricky situation for us,
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Azalduko balira, egoera zail baten aurrean izango ginateke.
10:26
but we're presumably acting in such a way
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Baina agian guk dugun jokatzeko moduagatik,
10:29
that people feel
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jendea sentitzen da
10:31
morally compelled
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moralki konprometituta
10:33
to continue our mission, not to screw it up.
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gure lana jarraitzera, eta ez zapuztera.
10:37
CA: I'd actually be interested, just based on what we've heard so far --
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CA:Jakin nahiko nuke, orainarte entzundakoaren arabera --
10:40
I'm curious as to the opinion in the TED audience.
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kuriositatea dut gure TED-eko entzuleekin batera.
10:45
You know, there might be a couple of views
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Badakizu, izan daitezkela ikuspegi desberdinak
10:47
of WikiLeaks and of Julian.
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Wikileaks eta Juleanen inguruan.
10:49
You know, hero -- people's hero --
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Badakizu, heroia -- gizartearen heroia --
10:52
bringing this important light.
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argitasuna dakarkiguna.
10:55
Dangerous troublemaker.
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Eta arazo sortzaile arriskutsua.
10:58
Who's got the hero view?
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Norentzat zara heroi ?
11:02
Who's got the dangerous troublemaker view?
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Norentzat arazo sortzaile arriskutsua ?
11:06
JA: Oh, come on. There must be some.
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JA: Oh, tira. Izango da baten bat.
11:09
CA: It's a soft crowd, Julian, a soft crowd.
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CA: Talde moldakorrak dira, Julian, moldakorrak.
11:11
We have to try better. Let's show them another example.
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Saia gaitezen hobeto. Azter dezagun beste adibide bat.
11:13
Now here's something that you haven't yet leaked,
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Hemen dugu oraindik argitara filtratu ez duzuten zerbait,
11:16
but I think for TED you are.
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baina TED-entzako bai.
11:19
I mean it's an intriguing story that's just happened, right?
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Oraintsu gertatu den istoria bati buruzkoa da, ez da hala?
11:21
What is this?
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Zer da hau ?
11:23
JA: So this is a sample of what we do
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JA: Egiten ari garenaren adibide bat da
11:25
sort of every day.
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gure egunerokoa.
11:27
So late last year -- in November last year --
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Pasa den urte amaieran -- Azaroan --
11:30
there was a series of well blowouts
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putzu batzuetan leherketak izan ziren
11:32
in Albania,
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Albanian
11:34
like the well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico,
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Mexikoko Golkoan izandako eztandak bezala,
11:37
but not quite as big.
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baino ez hain handiak.
11:39
And we got a report --
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Eta txosten bat lortu genuen --
11:42
a sort of engineering analysis into what happened --
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halako analisi tekniko bat, gertatutakoaz --
11:45
saying that, in fact, security guards
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esanaz, segurtasun zaintzaileak izan zirela,
11:48
from some rival, various competing oil firms
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konpetentziaren petrolio firma batzuenak,
11:51
had, in fact, parked trucks there and blown them up.
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han kamioiak aparkatu eta lehertu zituztenak.
11:55
And part of the Albanian government was in this, etc., etc.
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Eta Albaniako gobernuko batzuk horren atzean zeudela e.a.
11:59
And the engineering report
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Informe teknikoak
12:00
had nothing on the top of it,
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ez zuen titulurik.
12:02
so it was an extremely difficult document for us.
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Beraz bereziki zaila zen dokumentu hura guretzat.
12:04
We couldn't verify it because we didn't know
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Ezin izan genuen egiaztatu ez bait genekien
12:06
who wrote it and knew what it was about.
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nork idatzi zuen baino bai zertaz ari zen.
12:08
So we were kind of skeptical that maybe it was
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Orduan eszeptikoak izan ginen pentsatu baigenduen
12:10
a competing oil firm just sort of playing the issue up.
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konpetentziko petrolio firma bat izan zitekeela hura zabaldu nahian.
12:12
So under that basis, we put it out and said,
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Oinarri hauen arabera, zabaldu genuen esanez,
12:14
"Look, we're skeptical about this thing.
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"Begira, gu sinezgaitzak gara hontaz.
12:16
We don't know, but what can we do?
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Ez dakigu, baina zer egin dezakegu ?
12:18
The material looks good, it feels right,
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Material ona dirudi, itxura ona du,
12:20
but we just can't verify it."
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baina ezin dugu egiaztatu."
12:22
And we then got a letter
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Orduan mezu bat jaso genuen
12:25
just this week
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aste hortan bertan,
12:28
from the company who wrote it,
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idatzi zuen enpresarena,
12:31
wanting to track down the source --
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iturria aurkitu nahi zuen --
12:34
(Laughter)
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(Farreak)
12:38
saying, "Hey, we want to track down the source."
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esanaz. "Hey, guk iturria aurkitu nahi dugu."
12:41
And we were like, "Oh, tell us more.
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Eta gu han, "Oh, esaiguzu gehiago.
12:43
What document is it, precisely, you're talking about?
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Zein dokumentu da, zehazki, hitzegiten ari zarena ?
12:46
Can you show that you had legal authority over that document?
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Erakusterik ba al duzu dokumentu horren jabetza legala duzula?
12:49
Is it really yours?"
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Benetan zuena al da?"
12:51
So they sent us this screen shot
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Orduan bidali ziguten hau
12:54
with the author
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egilearekin
12:56
in the Microsoft Word ID.
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Microsoft Word-aren ID-an.
13:01
Yeah.
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Bai.
13:03
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
13:08
That's happened quite a lot though.
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Hori nahiko sarri gertatu zaigu.
13:10
This is like one of our methods
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Hau da gure metodoetako bat
13:12
of identifying, of verifying, what a material is,
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identifikatzeko -- edo materiala egiaztatzeko,
13:15
is to try and get these guys to write letters.
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saiatu beraiek domumentuak idatzi ditzaten.
13:17
CA: Yeah. Have you had information
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CA: Bai. Jaso al zenuten informaziorik
13:20
from inside BP?
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BP-ren barrutik ?
13:22
JA: Yeah, we have a lot, but I mean, at the moment,
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JA: Bai, asko ditugu, baina esan nahi dut, momentuz,
13:25
we are undergoing a sort of serious fundraising and engineering effort.
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diru sarrera bilketa serio batean ari gera eta ingeniaritza esfortzu batean.
13:28
So our publication rate
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Orduan gure publikazio kopurua
13:30
over the past few months
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azken hilabeteetan zehar
13:32
has been sort of minimized
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gutxiago izan da
13:34
while we're re-engineering our back systems
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gure segurtasun sistemak berregiten gabiltzalako
13:37
for the phenomenal public interest that we have.
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sortu dugun interes publikoa aparta dela eta.
13:40
That's a problem.
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Hau arazo bat da.
13:42
I mean, like any sort of growing startup organization,
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Alegia, hazten ari den edozein talde hasiberri bezala,
13:45
we are sort of overwhelmed
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nolabait gaindituta aurkitzen gara
13:47
by our growth,
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gure hazkundeagatik.
13:49
and that means we're getting enormous quantity
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Eta horrek esan nahi du jasotzen ari garela ikaragarri
13:51
of whistleblower disclosures
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salaketa filtrazio
13:53
of a very high caliber
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garrantzi handikoak,
13:55
but don't have enough people to actually
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baina ez dugu behar adina jende
13:57
process and vet this information.
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informazio hori prozesatzeko.
13:59
CA: So that's the key bottleneck,
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CA: Orduan hori da daukazuten arazoa,
14:01
basically journalistic volunteers
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kazetari boluntarioak
14:03
and/or the funding of journalistic salaries?
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eta/edo soldatapeko kazetaritzarako diru sarrerak ?
14:06
JA: Yep. Yeah, and trusted people.
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JA: Bai, eta jende fidagarria.
14:08
I mean, we're an organization
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Esan nahi dut, gure organizazioa
14:10
that is hard to grow very quickly
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nekez hazi daiteke azkar
14:12
because of the sort of material we deal with,
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darabilgun material motagatik.
14:14
so we have to restructure
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Beraz berrantolatu beharra dugu
14:17
in order to have people
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jendea lortzeko
14:19
who will deal with the highest national security stuff,
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segurtasun nazionalari buruzko gauzetaz ariko dena,
14:22
and then lower security cases.
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eta maila baxuagoko segurtasun auzietaz.
14:24
CA: So help us understand a bit about you personally
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CA: Beno lagundu gaitzazu zutaz gehiago ezagutzen
14:27
and how you came to do this.
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eta nola iritxi zinen hontara.
14:29
And I think I read that as a kid
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Uste dut irakurri dudala gaztetxo zinela
14:31
you went to 37 different schools.
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37 eskola desberdinetatik pasa zinela.
14:34
Can that be right?
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Izan al daiteke?
14:36
JA: Well, my parents were in the movie business
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JA: Ongi, nire gurasoak zinearen industrian jardutetik
14:39
and then on the run from a cult,
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sekta batetik ihesi ibiltzera pasa ziren,
14:41
so the combination between the two ...
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beraz bien arteko uztarketa ...
14:43
(Laughter)
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(Farreak)
14:47
CA: I mean, a psychologist might say
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CA: Psikologo batek esan zezakeen
14:49
that's a recipe for breeding paranoia.
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paranoia sortzeko errezeta bat dela.
14:52
JA: What, the movie business?
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JA: Nola, zinearen industria ?
14:54
(Laughter)
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(Farreak)
14:57
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
15:00
CA: And you were also -- I mean,
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CA: Eta izan zinen baita -- uste dut,
15:02
you were also a hacker at an early age
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hacker bat izan zinen zure gaztaroan
15:04
and ran into the authorities early on.
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eta agintariekin topo egin zenuen geroxeago.
15:07
JA: Well, I was a journalist.
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JA: Beno, kazetaria nintzen.
15:10
You know, I was a very young journalist activist at an early age.
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Zera, nire gaztaroan kazetari ekintzaile bat izan nintzen.
15:12
I wrote a magazine,
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Aldizkari bat idatzi nuen,
15:14
was prosecuted for it when I was a teenager.
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eta horregatik auzipetua izan nintzen gazte nintzela.
15:17
So you have to be careful with hacker.
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Orduan argi ibili behar da 'hacker' hitzarekin.
15:19
I mean there's like -- there's a method
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Esan nahi dut -- metodo bat da,
15:21
that can be deployed for various things.
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erabil daitekena, gauza desberdinetarako.
15:23
Unfortunately, at the moment,
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Zoritxarrez, gaur egun,
15:25
it's mostly deployed by the Russian mafia
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gehienbat errusiako mafiak erabiltzen du
15:27
in order to steal your grandmother's bank accounts.
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zure amonaren bankuko kontu zenbakiak lapurtzeko.
15:29
So this phrase is not,
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Beraz hitz hau ez da --
15:32
not as nice as it used to be.
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garai batean izan ohi zen bezain polita.
15:34
CA: Yeah, well, I certainly don't think
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CA: Bai, ongi, nik ez dut inolaz ere uste
15:36
you're stealing anyone's grandmother's bank account,
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zu norbaiten amonaren bankuko kontuak lapurtzen zabiltzanik.
15:39
but what about
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Baina zein dira
15:41
your core values?
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zure oinarrizko baloreak ?
15:43
Can you give us a sense of what they are
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Emango al zenizkiguke pista batzuk haietaz
15:46
and maybe some incident in your life
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eta agian zure bizitzako gertakizun bat
15:48
that helped determine them?
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horiek finkatzen lagundu zizuna?
15:53
JA: I'm not sure about the incident.
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JA: Ez nago ziur.
15:55
But the core values:
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Baina oinarrizko baloreak:
15:58
well, capable, generous men
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ba, gizon handi eta eskuzabalak
16:01
do not create victims;
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biktimarik ez dutela sortzen;
16:03
they nurture victims.
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biktimei laguntzen diete.
16:05
And that's something from my father
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Hori nire aitarengan ikasi nuen
16:07
and something from other capable, generous men
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eta beste zenbait pertsona eskuzabal eta handirengan
16:10
that have been in my life.
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nire bizitzan izan direnak.
16:13
CA: Capable, generous men do not create victims;
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CA: Handiak, biktimak sortzea ekiditen duten gizon eskuzabalak;
16:15
they nurture victims?
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biktimak zaintzen dituzte?
16:17
JA: Yeah. And you know,
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JA: Bai, eta badakizu,
16:19
I'm a combative person,
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ni pertsona borrokalaria naizela,
16:23
so I'm not actually so big on the nurture,
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ez naiz oso trebea zaintzeari dagokionez.
16:25
but some way --
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Baina nolabait --
16:28
there is another way of nurturing victims,
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Ba da beste modu bat biktimak zaintzeko,
16:31
which is to police perpetrators
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zera da, gaizkileak
16:34
of crime.
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kontrolatuz.
16:36
And so that is something
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Eta hori izan da
16:38
that has been in my character
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nire nortasunean izan den zerbait
16:40
for a long time.
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betidanik.
16:42
CA: So just tell us, very quickly in the last minute, the story:
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CA: Kontaiguzu bada, oso azkar azken minutu hontan, historia:
16:45
what happened in Iceland?
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zer gertatu zen Islandian?
16:48
You basically published something there,
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Zeozer publikatu zenuen han,
16:51
ran into trouble with a bank,
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eta banku batekin arazoak izan zenituen,
16:54
then the news service there
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orduan hango kazetariek
16:56
was injuncted from running the story.
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istorio hura gelditzeko agindu judiziala jaso zuten.
16:59
Instead, they publicized your side.
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Horren ordez, zure bertsioa argitaratu zuten.
17:01
That made you very high-profile in Iceland. What happened next?
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Horrek oso famatua egin zintuen Islandian. Zer gertatu zen gero?
17:04
JA: Yeah, this is a great case, you know.
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JA: Bai, hau kasu bikaina da, zera.
17:06
Iceland went through this financial crisis.
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Islandia finantza krisi batean sartu zen.
17:08
It was the hardest hit of any country in the world.
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Munduko edozein herrialdek izandako kolperik gogorrena.
17:10
Its banking sector was 10 times the GDP
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Bankari zegokion sektorea 10 aldiz BPG-a zen
17:12
of the rest of the economy.
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gainentzeko ekonomiarekin alderatuz.
17:14
Anyway, so we release this report
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Edozen modutan, txosten hau argitaratu genuen
17:17
in July last year.
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pasaden urteko Uztailean.
17:20
And the national TV station was injuncted
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Eta telebista nazionalak beste agindu judizial bat jaso zuen
17:22
five minutes before it went on air,
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airera irten baino bost minutu lehenago.
17:24
like out of a movie: injunction landed on the news desk,
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Pelikuletan bezala, agindua erredakziora iritxi zen,
17:26
and the news reader was like,
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eta kazetaria han zegoen esanaz bezela,
17:28
"This has never happened before. What do we do?"
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"Hau ez da inoiz gertatu. Zer egingo dugu?"
17:30
Well, we just show the website instead,
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Horren ordez soilik webgunean azaldu genuen,
17:32
for all that time, as a filler,
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denbora guzian, bete lanean.
17:35
and we became very famous in Iceland,
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Eta oso ezagunak egin ginen Islandian,
17:37
went to Iceland and spoke about this issue.
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hara joan eta gertakari hontaz hitzegin genuen.
17:40
And there was a feeling in the community
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Ba zen sentipen bat hango gizartean
17:42
that that should never happen again,
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hura ezin zitekeela pasa berriro.
17:44
and as a result,
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Eta ondorioz,
17:46
working with Icelandic politicians
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hango politikari batzuekin lanean
17:48
and some other international legal experts,
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eta beste zenbait nazioarteko legegizonekin,
17:50
we put together a new sort of
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jarri genituen batera
17:52
package of legislation for Iceland
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lege sorta bat Islandiarentzat
17:55
to sort of become an offshore haven
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itsasoan zegoen paraiso moduko bat
17:58
for the free press,
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prensa askearentzat,
18:01
with the strongest journalistic protections in the world,
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munduko kazetagintzarentzat berme handiena zuena,
18:04
with a new Nobel Prize
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Premio Nobel berriarekin
18:06
for freedom of speech.
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adierazpen askatasunarentzat.
18:08
Iceland's a Nordic country,
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Islandia herrialde Nordiko bat da
18:10
so, like Norway, it's able to tap into the system.
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Noruega bezela, sistemaz baliatzeko gai da.
18:13
And just a month ago,
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Eta orain hillabete,
18:15
this was passed by the Icelandic parliament unanimously.
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hau Islandiako parlamentuak onartu zuen aho batez.
18:18
CA: Wow.
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CA: Wow.
18:20
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
18:26
Last question, Julian.
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Azken galdera, Julian.
18:28
When you think of the future then,
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Etorkizunaz gogoeta egiten duzunean,
18:30
do you think it's more likely to be
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ze uste duzu izan daitekela halako
18:32
Big Brother exerting more control,
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Anai Handia kontrol gehiago eragiten,
18:34
more secrecy,
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sekretu gehiago,
18:36
or us watching
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edo guk zainduko dugu
18:38
Big Brother,
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Anai Handia,
18:40
or it's just all to be played for either way?
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edo dena jokoan dago alde guzietatik ?
18:43
JA: I'm not sure which way it's going to go.
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JA: Ez nago seguru zein bide jarraituko dugun.
18:45
I mean, there's enormous pressures
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Presio ikaragarriak daude
18:47
to harmonize freedom of speech legislation
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adierazpen askatasun legedia bateratzeko
18:50
and transparency legislation around the world --
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baita gardentasunerako legedia ere munduan zehar --
18:53
within the E.U.,
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EB-aren barruan.,
18:55
between China and the United States.
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China eta AEB-en artean.
18:57
Which way is it going to go? It's hard to see.
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Zein bide hartuko den? Zaila da ikustea.
19:00
That's why it's a very interesting time to be in --
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Horregatik da hain momentu interesgarria bertan egoteko.
19:02
because with just a little bit of effort,
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Zeren ezfortzu txiki batekin
19:04
we can shift it one way or the other.
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batera ala bestera bideratu dezakegu.
19:07
CA: Well, it looks like I'm reflecting the audience's opinion
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CA: Ongi, uste dut gure entzuleen iritziarekin bat natorrela
19:10
to say, Julian, be careful,
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esatean, Julian, argi ibili
19:12
and all power to you.
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eta ondo joan dakizula.
19:14
JA: Thank you, Chris. (CA: Thank you.)
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JA: Esker mila, Chis. (CA: Eskerrak zuri.)
19:16
(Applause)
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(Txaloak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julian Assange - WhistleblowerInternet activist Julian Assange serves as spokesperson for WikiLeaks, a controversial, volunteer-driven website that publishes and comments on leaked documents alleging government and corporate misconduct.
Why you should listen
You could say Australian-born Julian Assange has swapped his long-time interest in network security flaws for the far-more-suspect flaws of even bigger targets: governments and corporations. Since his early 20s, he has been using network technology to prod and probe the vulnerable edges of administrative systems, but though he was a computing hobbyist first (in 1991 he was the target of hacking charges after he accessed the computers of an Australian telecom), he's now taken off his "white hat" and launched a career as one of the world's most visible human-rights activists.
He calls himself "editor in chief." He travels the globe as its spokesperson. Yet Assange's part in WikiLeaks is clearly dicier than that: he's become the face of creature that, simply, many powerful organizations would rather see the world rid of. His Wikipedia entry says he is "constantly on the move," and some speculate that his role in publishing decrypted US military video has put him in personal danger. A controversial figure, pundits debate whether his work is reckless and does more harm than good. Amnesty International recognized him with an International Media Award in 2009.
Assange studied physics and mathematics at the University of Melbourne. He wrote Strobe, the first free and open-source port scanner, and contributed to the book Underground: Tales of Hacking, Madness and Obsession on the Electronic Frontier.
Julian Assange | Speaker | TED.com