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Yanis Varoufakis: Capitalism will eat democracy -- unless we speak up
Janis Varufakis (Yanis Varoufakis): Kapitalizam će da pojede demokratiju - ukoliko ne podignemo glas
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Da li se pitate zašto političari nisu ono što su nekad bili, zašto se vlade čine nesposobnim da reše stvarne probleme? Ekonomista Janis Varufakis, bivši ministar finansija Grčke, kaže da je to zato što danas možete da budete u politici, ali ne i da upravljate - jer istinska moć pripada onima koji upravljaju ekonomijom. On veruje da megabogati i korporacije kanibalizuju političku sferu, uzrokujući finansijsku krizu. U ovom govoru, poslušajte njegov san o svetu u kom se kapital i rad više ne bore jedan protiv drugog: "svetu koji je istovremeno libertarijanski, marksistički i kejnsijanski."
Yanis Varoufakis - Economist and professor
Yanis Varoufakis thinks we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism. Full bio
Yanis Varoufakis thinks we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Democracy.
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Demokratija.
00:14
In the West,
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Na Zapadu
00:16
we make a colossal mistake
taking it for granted.
taking it for granted.
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pravimo kolosalnu grešku
uzimajući je zdravo za gotovo.
uzimajući je zdravo za gotovo.
00:20
We see democracy
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Vidimo demokratiju
00:21
not as the most fragile
of flowers that it really is,
of flowers that it really is,
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ne kao najkrhkiji cvet, što uistinu jeste,
00:26
but we see it as part
of our society's furniture.
of our society's furniture.
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već je vidimo kao deo
društvenog nameštaja.
društvenog nameštaja.
00:29
We tend to think of it
as an intransigent given.
as an intransigent given.
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Imamo naviku da mislimo o njoj
kao o beskompromisnoj datosti.
kao o beskompromisnoj datosti.
00:34
We mistakenly believe that capitalism
begets inevitably democracy.
begets inevitably democracy.
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U zabludi smo da kapitalizam
neizbežno stvara demokratiju.
neizbežno stvara demokratiju.
00:39
It doesn't.
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Ne stvara.
00:41
Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew
and his great imitators in Beijing
and his great imitators in Beijing
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Li Kvan Ju iz Singapura
i njegovi veliki podražavaoci iz Pekinga
i njegovi veliki podražavaoci iz Pekinga
00:45
have demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt
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su protestovali van razumne sumnje
00:48
that it is perfectly possible
to have a flourishing capitalism,
to have a flourishing capitalism,
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da je savršeno moguće
imati procvat kapitalizma,
imati procvat kapitalizma,
00:52
spectacular growth,
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spektakularan rast,
00:54
while politics remains democracy-free.
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a da politika bude bez demokratije.
00:58
Indeed, democracy is receding
in our neck of the woods,
in our neck of the woods,
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Uistinu, demokratija je u opadanju
u našem kutku sveta,
u našem kutku sveta,
01:02
here in Europe.
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ovde u Evropi.
01:04
Earlier this year,
while I was representing Greece --
while I was representing Greece --
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Ranije ove godine,
dok sam predstavljao Grčku -
dok sam predstavljao Grčku -
01:07
the newly elected Greek government --
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novoizabranu grčku vladu -
01:10
in the Eurogroup as its Finance Minister,
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u Evrogrupi kao njen ministar finansija,
01:12
I was told in no uncertain terms
that our nation's democratic process --
that our nation's democratic process --
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nedvosmisleno mi je saopšteno
da demokratski procesi naše nacije -
da demokratski procesi naše nacije -
01:17
our elections --
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naši izbori -
01:19
could not be allowed to interfere
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ne bi smeli da se mešaju
01:21
with economic policies
that were being implemented in Greece.
that were being implemented in Greece.
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u ekonomsku politiku
koja se primenjuje u Grčkoj.
koja se primenjuje u Grčkoj.
01:25
At that moment,
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U tom trenutku
01:26
I felt that there could be no greater
vindication of Lee Kuan Yew,
vindication of Lee Kuan Yew,
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sam osećao da nema boljeg
opravdanja za Li Kvana Jua
opravdanja za Li Kvana Jua
ili za Kinesku komunističku partiju,
01:30
or the Chinese Communist Party,
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01:32
indeed of some recalcitrant
friends of mine who kept telling me
friends of mine who kept telling me
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i zaista za neke moje neposlušne prjatelje
koji mi stalno govore
koji mi stalno govore
01:36
that democracy would be banned
if it ever threatened to change anything.
if it ever threatened to change anything.
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da će da zabrane demokratiju
čim postane pretnja bilo kakvim promenama.
čim postane pretnja bilo kakvim promenama.
01:41
Tonight, here, I want to present to you
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Večeras vam ovde želim predstaviti
01:44
an economic case
for an authentic democracy.
for an authentic democracy.
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ekonomski argument
za autentičnu demokratiju.
za autentičnu demokratiju.
01:48
I want to ask you
to join me in believing again
to join me in believing again
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Želim da zatražim od vas
da mi se pridružite u ponovnoj veri
da mi se pridružite u ponovnoj veri
01:53
that Lee Kuan Yew,
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da Li Kvan Ju,
01:56
the Chinese Communist Party
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Kineska komunistička partija
01:57
and indeed the Eurogroup
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kao i Evrogrupa
01:59
are wrong in believing
that we can dispense with democracy --
that we can dispense with democracy --
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greše u ubeđenju
da možemo bez demokratije -
da možemo bez demokratije -
02:03
that we need an authentic,
boisterous democracy.
boisterous democracy.
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i da nam je potrebna autentična,
žestoka demokratija.
žestoka demokratija.
02:07
And without democracy,
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A bez demokratije,
02:10
our societies will be nastier,
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naša društva bi bila gnusnija,
02:13
our future bleak
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naša budućnost mračna
02:15
and our great, new technologies wasted.
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a naša sjajna, nova tehnologija
bi bila protraćena.
bi bila protraćena.
02:18
Speaking of waste,
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Govoreći o traćenju,
02:19
allow me to point out
an interesting paradox
an interesting paradox
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dozvolite da ukažem
na jedan zanimljiv paradoks
na jedan zanimljiv paradoks
02:22
that is threatening
our economies as we speak.
our economies as we speak.
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koji trenutno preti našim ekonomijama.
02:25
I call it the twin peaks paradox.
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Zovem ga paradoksom blizanačkih vrhova.
02:27
One peak you understand --
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Jedan vrh razumete -
02:28
you know it, you recognize it --
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poznat vam je, prepoznajete ga -
02:30
is the mountain of debts
that has been casting a long shadow
that has been casting a long shadow
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to je planina dugova
koja baca veliku senku
koja baca veliku senku
02:35
over the United States,
Europe, the whole world.
Europe, the whole world.
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preko Sjedinjenih Država,
Evrope, čitavog sveta.
Evrope, čitavog sveta.
02:38
We all recognize the mountain of debts.
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Svima nam je poznata planina dugova.
02:40
But few people discern its twin.
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Ali nekolicina raspoznaje
njenu bliznakinju.
njenu bliznakinju.
02:45
A mountain of idle cash
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Planinu ležećeg novca
02:48
belonging to rich savers
and to corporations,
and to corporations,
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koja pripada bogatim štedišama
i korporacijama,
i korporacijama,
02:53
too terrified to invest it
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koji su suviše uplašeni da ga ulože
02:55
into the productive activities
that can generate the incomes
that can generate the incomes
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u produktivne delatnosti
koje bi proizvodile dobiti
koje bi proizvodile dobiti
02:59
from which you can extinguish
the mountain of debts
the mountain of debts
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kojima biste mogli
da eliminišete planinu duga
da eliminišete planinu duga
03:02
and which can produce all those things
that humanity desperately needs,
that humanity desperately needs,
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i koji bi mogli da proizvedu sve ono
što je čovečanstvu očajnički potrebno,
što je čovečanstvu očajnički potrebno,
03:06
like green energy.
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poput ekološke energije.
03:07
Now let me give you two numbers.
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Sada mi dozvolite
da vam ponudim dva broja.
da vam ponudim dva broja.
03:10
Over the last three months,
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U protekla tri meseca
03:11
in the United States,
in Britain and in the Eurozone,
in Britain and in the Eurozone,
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u Sjedinjenim Državama,
Britaniji i Evrozoni
Britaniji i Evrozoni
03:14
we have invested, collectively,
3.4 trillion dollars
3.4 trillion dollars
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smo uložili, sveukupno,
3,4 biliona dolara
3,4 biliona dolara
03:18
on all the wealth-producing goods --
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na sve tekovine za proizvodnju bogatstva -
03:21
things like industrial plants, machinery,
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stvari poput industrijskog bilja, mašina,
03:24
office blocks, schools,
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kancelarija, škola,
03:26
roads, railways, machinery,
and so on and so forth.
and so on and so forth.
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puteva, železnica, mašina i tako dalje.
03:29
$3.4 trillion sounds like a lot of money
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3,4 biliona zvuči kao mnogo novca,
03:32
until you compare it to the $5.1 trillion
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sve dok ga uporedite sa 5,1 biliona dolara
03:36
that has been slushing around
in the same countries,
in the same countries,
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koji se prebacuju okolo
u istim tim državama,
u istim tim državama,
03:39
in our financial institutions,
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u našim finansijskim institucijama,
03:41
doing absolutely nothing
during the same period
during the same period
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sve to vreme ne radeći ništa,
03:45
except inflating stock exchanges
and bidding up house prices.
and bidding up house prices.
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osim što dovodi do inflacije na našim
berzama i uvećava cene nekretnina.
berzama i uvećava cene nekretnina.
03:50
So a mountain of debt
and a mountain of idle cash
and a mountain of idle cash
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Dakle, planina duga
i planina ležećeg novca
i planina ležećeg novca
03:55
form twin peaks,
failing to cancel each other out
failing to cancel each other out
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formiraju blizanačke vrhove
koji ne uspevaju da se ponište
koji ne uspevaju da se ponište
03:59
through the normal
operation of the markets.
operation of the markets.
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kroz normalan rad tržišta.
04:02
The result is stagnant wages,
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Rezultat toga je stagnacija plata,
04:05
more than a quarter of 25- to 54-year-olds
in America, in Japan and in Europe
in America, in Japan and in Europe
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više od četvrtine onih od 25 do 54 godine
u Americi, Japanu i Evropi
u Americi, Japanu i Evropi
04:11
out of work.
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su bez posla.
04:12
And consequently, low aggregate demand,
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I posledično, niska ukupna potražnja
04:14
which in a never-ending cycle,
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koja u beskrajnom ciklusu,
04:17
reinforces the pessimism of the investors,
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učvršćuje pesimizam investitora,
04:20
who, fearing low demand,
reproduce it by not investing --
reproduce it by not investing --
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koji iz straha od niske potražnje
ne investiraju i tako stvaraju istu -
ne investiraju i tako stvaraju istu -
04:24
exactly like Oedipus' father,
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baš poput Edipovog oca,
04:27
who, terrified
by the prophecy of the oracle
by the prophecy of the oracle
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koji, preplašen
proročanstvom iz proročišta
proročanstvom iz proročišta
04:29
that his son would grow up to kill him,
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da će ga njegov odrasli sin ubiti,
04:32
unwittingly engineered the conditions
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nenamerno stvara uslove
04:34
that ensured that Oedipus,
his son, would kill him.
his son, would kill him.
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koji će obezbediti
da ga ubije njegov sin Edip.
da ga ubije njegov sin Edip.
04:38
This is my quarrel with capitalism.
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Ovo je moje neslaganje s kapitalizmom.
04:41
Its gross wastefulness,
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Njegova sveukupna protraćenost,
04:43
all this idle cash,
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sav taj ležeći novac
04:44
should be energized to improve lives,
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bi trebalo da bude podstaknut
da unapređuje živote,
da unapređuje živote,
04:49
to develop human talents,
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da razvija ljudske talente
04:50
and indeed to finance
all these technologies,
all these technologies,
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i zaista da finansira svu ovu tehnologiju,
04:53
green technologies,
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ekološku tehnologiju,
04:54
which are absolutely essential
for saving planet Earth.
for saving planet Earth.
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sve to je apsolutno ključno
za spas planete Zemlje.
za spas planete Zemlje.
04:58
Am I right in believing
that democracy might be the answer?
that democracy might be the answer?
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Jesam li u pravu što verujem
da bi demokratija mogla da bude rešenje?
da bi demokratija mogla da bude rešenje?
05:01
I believe so,
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Verujem da da,
no pre nego što nastavimo,
05:02
but before we move on,
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05:04
what do we mean by democracy?
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šta podrazumevamo pod demokratijom?
05:06
Aristotle defined democracy
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Aristotel je definisao demokratiju
05:08
as the constitution
in which the free and the poor,
in which the free and the poor,
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kao uređenje u kome slobodni i siromašni
05:13
being in the majority, control government.
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kao većina upravljaju vladom.
05:17
Now, of course Athenian democracy
excluded too many.
excluded too many.
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Sad, naravno atinska demokratija
je izuzimala mnoge.
je izuzimala mnoge.
05:20
Women, migrants and,
of course, the slaves.
of course, the slaves.
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Žene, migrante i naravno robove.
05:24
But it would be a mistake
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Međutim, bila bi greška
05:25
to dismiss the significance
of ancient Athenian democracy
of ancient Athenian democracy
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odbaciti značaj
antičke atinske demokratije
antičke atinske demokratije
05:28
on the basis of whom it excluded.
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na osnovu toga koga je isključivala.
Ono što je bilo značajnije,
05:31
What was more pertinent,
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05:32
and continues to be so
about ancient Athenian democracy,
about ancient Athenian democracy,
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i danas je tako, kod atinske demokratije
05:36
was the inclusion of the working poor,
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to je uključenje siromašnih radnika,
05:40
who not only acquired
the right to free speech,
the right to free speech,
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koji ne samo da su stekli
pravo na slobodu govora,
pravo na slobodu govora,
05:45
but more importantly, crucially,
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već značajnije, krucijalnije,
05:47
they acquired the rights
to political judgments
to political judgments
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stekli su pravo na političke sudove
05:50
that were afforded equal weight
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koji su im obezbeđivali jednaku težinu
05:52
in the decision-making
concerning matters of state.
concerning matters of state.
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u donošenju odluka
koje se tiču državnih pitanja.
koje se tiču državnih pitanja.
05:56
Now, of course, Athenian
democracy didn't last long.
democracy didn't last long.
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Sad, naravno, atinska demokratija
nije dugo trajala.
nije dugo trajala.
05:59
Like a candle that burns brightly,
it burned out quickly.
it burned out quickly.
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Poput sveće koja jarko svetli,
brzo je sagorela.
brzo je sagorela.
06:03
And indeed,
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I zaista
06:04
our liberal democracies today
do not have their roots in ancient Athens.
do not have their roots in ancient Athens.
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naše današnje liberalne demokratije
nemaju korene u antičkoj Atini.
nemaju korene u antičkoj Atini.
06:09
They have their roots in the Magna Carta,
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Njihovi koreni su u Velikoj povelji,
06:11
in the 1688 Glorious Revolution,
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u Slavnoj revoluciji iz 1688,
06:14
indeed in the American constitution.
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kao i u američkom ustavu.
06:17
Whereas Athenian democracy
was focusing on the masterless citizen
was focusing on the masterless citizen
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Dok se atinska demokratija
usredsređivala na slobodnog građanina
usredsređivala na slobodnog građanina
06:22
and empowering the working poor,
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i na jačanje siromašnih radnika,
06:25
our liberal democracies are founded
on the Magna Carta tradition,
on the Magna Carta tradition,
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naše liberalne demokratije
su zasnovane na tradiciji Velike povelje,
su zasnovane na tradiciji Velike povelje,
06:29
which was, after all,
a charter for masters.
a charter for masters.
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koja je, sve u svemu,
bila povelja za gospodare.
bila povelja za gospodare.
06:32
And indeed, liberal democracy
only surfaced when it was possible
only surfaced when it was possible
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I, uistinu, liberalna demokratija
je tek isplivala s mogućnošću
je tek isplivala s mogućnošću
06:36
to separate fully the political sphere
from the economic sphere,
from the economic sphere,
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potpunog razdvajanja
političke i ekonomske sfere,
političke i ekonomske sfere,
06:40
so as to confine the democratic process
fully in the political sphere,
fully in the political sphere,
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kako bi se demokratski procesi ograničili
u potpunosti na političku sferu,
u potpunosti na političku sferu,
06:45
leaving the economic sphere --
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ostavljajući ekonomsku sferu -
06:47
the corporate world, if you want --
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korporativni svet, ako hoćete -
06:49
as a democracy-free zone.
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kao prostor oslobođen demokratije.
06:53
Now, in our democracies today,
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Sad, u našim današnjim demokratijama
06:56
this separation of the economic
from the political sphere,
from the political sphere,
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ova razdvojenost ekonomske
od političke sfere,
od političke sfere,
07:00
the moment it started happening,
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u trenutku kad se počela dešavati
07:02
it gave rise to an inexorable,
epic struggle between the two,
epic struggle between the two,
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dovela je do neumoljive,
epske borbe između njih,
epske borbe između njih,
07:06
with the economic sphere
colonizing the political sphere,
colonizing the political sphere,
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pri čemu je ekonomska sfera
kolonizovala političku sferu,
kolonizovala političku sferu,
07:10
eating into its power.
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nagrizavši njenu moć.
07:12
Have you wondered why politicians
are not what they used to be?
are not what they used to be?
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Jeste li se ikad zapitali
zašto političari nisu što su nekad bili?
zašto političari nisu što su nekad bili?
07:16
It's not because their DNA
has degenerated.
has degenerated.
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To nije zbog degeneracije njihovog DNK.
07:19
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
07:20
It is rather because one can be
in government today and not in power,
in government today and not in power,
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Već zato što danas pojedinac
može da bude u vladi, ali ne na vlasti
može da bude u vladi, ali ne na vlasti
07:25
because power has migrated
from the political to the economic sphere,
from the political to the economic sphere,
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jer je vlast prešla
iz političke u ekonomsku sferu,
iz političke u ekonomsku sferu,
07:28
which is separate.
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koja je oodvojena.
07:31
Indeed,
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Zaista,
07:32
I spoke about my quarrel
with capitalism.
with capitalism.
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govorio sam o mom
neslaganju s kapitalizmom.
neslaganju s kapitalizmom.
07:35
If you think about it,
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Ako razmislite o tome,
07:36
it is a little bit like
a population of predators,
a population of predators,
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on je nalik na populaciju grabljivica,
07:41
that are so successful in decimating
the prey that they must feed on,
the prey that they must feed on,
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koje su toliko uspešne u desetkovanju
plena kojim se hrane
plena kojim se hrane
07:46
that in the end they starve.
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da na kraju umiru od gladi.
07:48
Similarly,
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Slično,
07:49
the economic sphere has been colonizing
and cannibalizing the political sphere
and cannibalizing the political sphere
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ekonomska sfera je kolonizovala
i kanibalizovala političku sferu
i kanibalizovala političku sferu
07:53
to such an extent
that it is undermining itself,
that it is undermining itself,
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do te mere da je počela
da podriva samu sebe,
da podriva samu sebe,
07:57
causing economic crisis.
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uzrokujući ekonomske krize.
07:58
Corporate power is increasing,
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Korporativna moć raste,
08:00
political goods are devaluing,
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politička dobra gube vrednost,
08:03
inequality is rising,
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nejednakost je u usponu,
08:05
aggregate demand is falling
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ukupna potražnja je u padu,
08:06
and CEOs of corporations are too scared
to invest the cash of their corporations.
to invest the cash of their corporations.
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a izvršni direktori korporacija
su isuviše uplašeni
da ulažu novac svojih korporacija.
da ulažu novac svojih korporacija.
08:13
So the more capitalism succeeds
in taking the demos out of democracy,
in taking the demos out of democracy,
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Pa, što je kapitalizam uspešniji
u uklanjanju demosa iz demokratije,
u uklanjanju demosa iz demokratije,
08:20
the taller the twin peaks
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to su blizanački vrhovi viši
08:21
and the greater the waste
of human resources
of human resources
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i sve se više traće ljudski resursi
08:25
and humanity's wealth.
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i ljudsko bogatstvo.
08:27
Clearly, if this is right,
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Očito, ako je ovo tačno,
08:30
we must reunite the political
and economic spheres
and economic spheres
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moramo da ponovo ujedinimo
političke i ekonomske sfere
političke i ekonomske sfere
08:33
and better do it
with a demos being in control,
with a demos being in control,
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i bolje da to učinimo s narodom na vlasti.
08:37
like in ancient Athens
except without the slaves
except without the slaves
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Kao u antičkoj Atini, samo bez robova
08:40
or the exclusion of women and migrants.
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ili isključivanja žena i migranata.
08:44
Now, this is not an original idea.
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Sad, ovo nije originalna zamisao.
08:45
The Marxist left
had that idea 100 years ago
had that idea 100 years ago
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Marksistički levičari
su imali ovu zamisao pre 100 godina
su imali ovu zamisao pre 100 godina
08:48
and it didn't go very well, did it?
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i nisu se baš proslavili, zar ne?
08:50
The lesson that we learned
from the Soviet debacle
from the Soviet debacle
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Lekcija koju smo naučili
iz sovjetskog debakla
iz sovjetskog debakla
08:54
is that only by a miracle
will the working poor be reempowered,
will the working poor be reempowered,
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je da će samo uz pomoć čuda
siromašni radnici biti ponovo osnaženi,
siromašni radnici biti ponovo osnaženi,
09:00
as they were in ancient Athens,
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kao što su bili u antičkoj Atini,
09:02
without creating new forms
of brutality and waste.
of brutality and waste.
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bez stvaranja novih oblika
brutalnosti i traćenja.
brutalnosti i traćenja.
09:06
But there is a solution:
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Međutim, postoji rešenje:
09:08
eliminate the working poor.
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uklonite siromašne radnike.
09:11
Capitalism's doing it
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Kapitalizam to radi,
09:12
by replacing low-wage workers
with automata, androids, robots.
with automata, androids, robots.
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zamenjujući loše plaćene radnike
automatima, androidima, robotima.
automatima, androidima, robotima.
09:19
The problem is
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Problem je
09:20
that as long as the economic
and the political spheres are separate,
and the political spheres are separate,
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da dok su god ekonomska
i politička sfera razdvojene,
i politička sfera razdvojene,
09:23
automation makes the twin peaks taller,
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automatizacija povećava blizanačke vrhove,
09:28
the waste loftier
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traćenje je blagorodnije,
09:30
and the social conflicts deeper,
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a društveni konflikti dublji,
09:32
including --
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uključujući -
09:34
soon, I believe --
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verujem uskoro -
09:35
in places like China.
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na mestima poput Kine.
09:38
So we need to reconfigure,
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Zato moramo da rekonfigurišemo,
09:41
we need to reunite the economic
and the political spheres,
and the political spheres,
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moramo da ponovo ujedninimo
ekonomske i političke sfere,
ekonomske i političke sfere,
09:44
but we'd better do it
by democratizing the reunified sphere,
by democratizing the reunified sphere,
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ali bolje da to učinimo
demokratizacijom nanovo ujedinjenih sfera,
demokratizacijom nanovo ujedinjenih sfera,
09:50
lest we end up with
a surveillance-mad hyperautocracy
a surveillance-mad hyperautocracy
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inače ćemo da završimo
u hiperautokratiji opsednutoj nadzorom
u hiperautokratiji opsednutoj nadzorom
09:55
that makes The Matrix, the movie,
look like a documentary.
look like a documentary.
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zbog koje film "Matriks"
izgleda poput dokumentarca.
izgleda poput dokumentarca.
10:00
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
10:01
So the question is not
whether capitalism will survive
whether capitalism will survive
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Zato nije u pitanju to
da li će kapitalizam preživeti
da li će kapitalizam preživeti
10:05
the technological innovations
it is spawning.
it is spawning.
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tehnološke inovacije koje stvara.
10:07
The more interesting question
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Zanimljivije je pitanje
10:09
is whether capitalism will be succeeded
by something resembling a Matrix dystopia
by something resembling a Matrix dystopia
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da li će kapitalizam naslediti
nešto što liči na distopiju iz "Matriksa"
nešto što liči na distopiju iz "Matriksa"
10:15
or something much closer
to a Star Trek-like society,
to a Star Trek-like society,
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ili nešto što je bliže
društvu iz "Zvezdanih staza",
društvu iz "Zvezdanih staza",
10:19
where machines serve the humans
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gde su mašine u službi ljudi,
10:22
and the humans expend their energies
exploring the universe
exploring the universe
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a ljudi troše svoju energiju
u istraživanje univerzuma
u istraživanje univerzuma
10:26
and indulging in long debates
about the meaning of life
about the meaning of life
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i u upuštanju u duge rasprave
o smislu života
o smislu života
10:30
in some ancient, Athenian-like,
high tech agora.
high tech agora.
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u nekakvoj antičkoj, nalik atinskoj,
visoko tehnološkoj agori.
visoko tehnološkoj agori.
10:36
I think we can afford to be optimistic.
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Mislim da možemo sebi priuštiti optimizam.
10:41
But what would it take,
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Ali šta bi nas koštalo,
10:42
what would it look like
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kako bi izgledalo
10:44
to have this Star Trek-like utopia,
instead of the Matrix-like dystopia?
instead of the Matrix-like dystopia?
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da imamo ovu utopiju iz "Zvezdanih staza"
umesto distopije iz "Matriksa"?
umesto distopije iz "Matriksa"?
10:50
In practical terms,
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Prostim rečima,
10:51
allow me to share just briefly,
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dozvolite da podelim s vama sažeto
10:53
a couple of examples.
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nekoliko primera.
10:55
At the level of the enterprise,
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Zamislite glavno tržište
na nivou preduzeća,
na nivou preduzeća,
10:56
imagine a capital market,
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10:59
where you earn capital as you work,
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gde možete da steknete kapital dok radite,
11:02
and where your capital follows you
from one job to another,
from one job to another,
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i gde vas vaš kapital prati
s jednog posla na drugi,
s jednog posla na drugi,
11:08
from one company to another,
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od jedne do druge firme,
11:09
and the company --
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a firma -
11:11
whichever one you happen
to work at at that time --
to work at at that time --
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u kojoj god da radite u tom trenutku -
11:14
is solely owned by those who happen
to work in it at that moment.
to work in it at that moment.
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je u potpunosti u posedu
onih koji u tom trenutku rade u njoj.
onih koji u tom trenutku rade u njoj.
11:19
Then all income stems
from capital, from profits,
from capital, from profits,
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Tako sav prihod proizilazi
iz kapitala, iz profita,
iz kapitala, iz profita,
11:24
and the very concept
of wage labor becomes obsolete.
of wage labor becomes obsolete.
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a sam koncept plaćenog rada
postaje prevaziđen.
postaje prevaziđen.
11:28
No more separation between those
who own but do not work in the company
who own but do not work in the company
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Nema više razdvajanja između onih
koji poseduju firmu, ali ne rade u njoj
koji poseduju firmu, ali ne rade u njoj
11:35
and those who work
but do not own the company;
but do not own the company;
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i onih koji rade, ali ne poseduju firmu;
11:38
no more tug-of-war
between capital and labor;
between capital and labor;
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nema više rastrgnutosti
između kapitala i rada;
između kapitala i rada;
11:42
no great gap between
investment and saving;
investment and saving;
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nema velikog jaza
između investicije i štednje;
između investicije i štednje;
11:46
indeed, no towering twin peaks.
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uistinu, nema više
gomilanja blizanačkih vrhova.
gomilanja blizanačkih vrhova.
11:50
At the level of the global
political economy,
political economy,
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Na nivou globalne političke ekonomije,
11:53
imagine for a moment
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zamislite na trenutak
11:54
that our national currencies
have a free-floating exchange rate,
have a free-floating exchange rate,
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da naše nacionalne monete
imaju slobodno-plutajuću stopu razmene,
imaju slobodno-plutajuću stopu razmene,
11:59
with a universal,
global, digital currency,
global, digital currency,
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sa univerzalnom, globalnom,
digitalnom monetom,
digitalnom monetom,
12:03
one that is issued
by the International Monetary Fund,
by the International Monetary Fund,
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koju bi izdavali
Međunarodni monetarni fond,
Međunarodni monetarni fond,
12:07
the G-20,
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G-20,
12:09
on behalf of all humanity.
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u ime celokupnog čovečanstva.
12:11
And imagine further
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Zamislite još
12:12
that all international trade
is denominated in this currency --
is denominated in this currency --
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da je sva međunarodna trgovina
izražena u ovoj moneti -
izražena u ovoj moneti -
12:17
let's call it "the cosmos,"
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nazovimo je "kosmos",
12:19
in units of cosmos --
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u jedinicama kosmosa -
12:21
with every government agreeing
to be paying into a common fund
to be paying into a common fund
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uz dogovor svih vlada
da će uplaćivati u zajednički fond
da će uplaćivati u zajednički fond
12:26
a sum of cosmos units proportional
to the country's trade deficit,
to the country's trade deficit,
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sumu kosmičkih jedinica proporcionalnu
trgovinskom deficitu te zemlje
trgovinskom deficitu te zemlje
12:31
or indeed to a country's trade surplus.
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ili, zapravo, trgovinskom višku te zemlje.
12:35
And imagine that that fund is utilized
to invest in green technologies,
to invest in green technologies,
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I zamislite da se taj fond koristi
za ulaganje u ekološke tehnologije,
za ulaganje u ekološke tehnologije,
12:40
especially in parts of the world
where investment funding is scarce.
where investment funding is scarce.
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naročito u delovima sveta
gde su investicioni fondovi oskudni.
gde su investicioni fondovi oskudni.
12:46
This is not a new idea.
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Ovo nije nova zamisao.
12:48
It's what, effectively,
John Maynard Keynes proposed
John Maynard Keynes proposed
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To je u suštini nešto
što je Džon Majnard Kejns predložio
što je Džon Majnard Kejns predložio
12:51
in 1944 at the Bretton Woods Conference.
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1944. nakonferenciji Breton Vuds.
12:56
The problem is
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Problem je
12:57
that back then, they didn't have
the technology to implement it.
the technology to implement it.
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da tada nisu imali tehnologiju
da bi ovo primenili.
da bi ovo primenili.
13:00
Now we do,
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Sada imamo,
13:01
especially in the context
of a reunified political-economic sphere.
of a reunified political-economic sphere.
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naročito u kontekstu ponovnog ujedinjenja
političko-ekonomske sfere.
političko-ekonomske sfere.
13:08
The world that I am describing to you
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Svet koji vam opisujem
13:11
is simultaneously libertarian,
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je istovremeno libertarijanski,
13:13
in that it prioritizes
empowered individuals,
empowered individuals,
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u smislu da mu je prioritet
osnaživanje pojedinaca,
osnaživanje pojedinaca,
13:18
Marxist,
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marksistički,
13:19
since it will have confined
to the dustbin of history
to the dustbin of history
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pošto bi poslao na đubrište istorije
13:22
the division between capital and labor,
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podelu između kapitala i rada
13:25
and Keynesian,
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i kejnsijanistički,
13:27
global Keynesian.
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globalni kejnsijanizam.
13:30
But above all else,
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Ali iznad svega
13:31
it is a world in which we will be able
to imagine an authentic democracy.
to imagine an authentic democracy.
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to je svet u kome bismo bili u stanju
da zamislimo autentičnu demokratiju.
da zamislimo autentičnu demokratiju.
13:37
Will such a world dawn?
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Hoće li takav svet da se začne?
13:40
Or shall we descend
into a Matrix-like dystopia?
into a Matrix-like dystopia?
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Ili ćemo da skliznemo
u distopiju nalik Matriksu?
u distopiju nalik Matriksu?
13:44
The answer lies in the political choice
that we shall be making collectively.
that we shall be making collectively.
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Odgovor leži u političkom izboru
koji ćemo kolektivno da napravimo.
koji ćemo kolektivno da napravimo.
13:49
It is our choice,
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Izbor je na nama
13:51
and we'd better make it democratically.
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i bolje bi nam bilo
da ga napravimo demokratski.
da ga napravimo demokratski.
13:54
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
13:55
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
14:01
Bruno Giussani: Yanis ...
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Bruno Đuzani: Janise...
14:03
It was you who described yourself
in your bios as a libertarian Marxist.
in your bios as a libertarian Marxist.
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ti si sebe u biografiji opisao
kao libertarijanskog marksistu.
kao libertarijanskog marksistu.
14:10
What is the relevance
of Marx's analysis today?
of Marx's analysis today?
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Koji je značaj Marksove analize danas?
14:14
Yanis Varoufakis: Well, if there was
any relevance in what I just said,
any relevance in what I just said,
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Janis Varufakis: Pa, ako je iole značajno
ono što sam upravo ispričao,
ono što sam upravo ispričao,
14:17
then Marx is relevant.
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onda je Marks značajan.
14:18
Because the whole point of reunifying
the political and economic is --
the political and economic is --
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Jer je čitava svrha ponovnog ujedinjenja
politike i ekonomije -
politike i ekonomije -
14:22
if we don't do it,
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ako to ne uradimo,
14:23
then technological innovation
is going to create
is going to create
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onda će tehnološke inovacije stvoriti
14:25
such a massive fall in aggregate demand,
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tako velik pad u sveukupnoj potražnji,
14:27
what Larry Summers
refers to as secular stagnation.
refers to as secular stagnation.
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nešto što Leri Samers
označava kao sekularnu stagnaciju.
označava kao sekularnu stagnaciju.
14:32
With this crisis migrating
from one part of the world,
from one part of the world,
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Uz migraciju ove krize
iz jednog dela sveta u drugi,
iz jednog dela sveta u drugi,
14:35
as it is now,
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kao što imamo danas,
14:37
it will destabilize
not only our democracies,
not only our democracies,
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to će destabilizovati,
ne samo naše demokratije,
ne samo naše demokratije,
14:39
but even the emerging world that is not
that keen on liberal democracy.
that keen on liberal democracy.
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već čak i svet u razvoju koji nije toliko
naklonjen liberalnoj demokratiji.
naklonjen liberalnoj demokratiji.
14:44
So if this analysis holds water,
then Marx is absolutely relevant.
then Marx is absolutely relevant.
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Pa, ako ova analiza pije vodu,
onda je Marks apsolutno relevantan.
onda je Marks apsolutno relevantan.
14:48
But so is Hayek,
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Ali je i Hajek,
14:49
that's why I'm a libertarian Marxist,
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zato sam ja libertarijanski marksista,
14:51
and so is Keynes,
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kao što je i Kejns,
14:52
so that's why I'm totally confused.
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eto zašto sam potpuno zbunjen.
14:54
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
14:56
BG: Indeed, and possibly we are too, now.
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BĐ: Uistinu, a verovatno smo sad i mi.
14:58
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
14:59
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
15:01
YV: If you are not confused,
you are not thinking, OK?
you are not thinking, OK?
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JV: Ako niste zbunjeni,
ne razmišljate, u redu?
ne razmišljate, u redu?
15:04
BG: That's a very, very Greek
philosopher kind of thing to say --
philosopher kind of thing to say --
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BĐ: To baš zvuči kao nešto
što bi rekli grčki filozofi -
što bi rekli grčki filozofi -
15:07
YV: That was Einstein, actually --
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JV: Ovo je zapravo rekao Ajnštajn -
15:09
BG: During your talk
you mentioned Singapore and China,
you mentioned Singapore and China,
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BĐ: Tokom svog govora,
pomenuo si Singapur i Kinu,
pomenuo si Singapur i Kinu,
15:11
and last night at the speaker dinner,
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a sinoć na večeri za govornike,
15:13
you expressed a pretty strong opinion
about how the West looks at China.
about how the West looks at China.
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izrazio si veoma snažan stav
o tome kako Zapad gleda na Kinu.
o tome kako Zapad gleda na Kinu.
Da li bi želeo da podeliš taj stav?
15:18
Would you like to share that?
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15:20
YV: Well, there's a great
degree of hypocrisy.
degree of hypocrisy.
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JV: Pa, radi se
o velikom stepenu licemerja.
o velikom stepenu licemerja.
15:23
In our liberal democracies,
we have a semblance of democracy.
we have a semblance of democracy.
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U našim liberalnim demokratijama
imamo naličje demokratije.
imamo naličje demokratije.
15:27
It's because we have confined,
as I was saying in my talk,
as I was saying in my talk,
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To je zato što smo ograničili,
kao što sam rekao u govoru,
kao što sam rekao u govoru,
15:30
democracy to the political sphere,
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demokratiju na političku sferu,
15:32
while leaving the one sphere
where all the action is --
where all the action is --
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dok smo ostavili jednu sferu
u kojoj se sve događa -
u kojoj se sve događa -
15:35
the economic sphere --
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ekonomsku sferu -
15:36
a completely democracy-free zone.
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u potpunosti lišenu demokratije.
15:39
In a sense,
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U smislu,
15:40
if I am allowed to be provocative,
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ako mi dozvoljavate da budem provokativan,
15:43
China today is closer to Britain
in the 19th century.
in the 19th century.
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da je današnja Kina
bliža Britaniji iz 19. veka.
bliža Britaniji iz 19. veka.
15:48
Because remember,
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Jer upamtite,
15:49
we tend to associate
liberalism with democracy --
liberalism with democracy --
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često poistovećujemo
liberalizam s demokratijom -
liberalizam s demokratijom -
to je istorijska greška.
15:51
that's a mistake, historically.
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Liberalizam, liberalnost,
to je poput Džona Stjuarta Mila.
to je poput Džona Stjuarta Mila.
15:53
Liberalism, liberal,
it's like John Stuart Mill.
it's like John Stuart Mill.
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15:56
John Stuart Mill was particularly
skeptical about the democratic process.
skeptical about the democratic process.
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Džon Stjuart Mil je bio naročito
sumnjičav po pitanju demokratskih procesa.
sumnjičav po pitanju demokratskih procesa.
16:00
So what you are seeing now in China
is a very similar process
is a very similar process
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948760
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Ono što trenutno gledate u Kini
je veoma sličan proces
je veoma sličan proces
16:06
to the one that we had in Britain
during the Industrial Revolution,
during the Industrial Revolution,
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onome koji smo imali u Britaniji
tokom Industrijske revolucije,
tokom Industrijske revolucije,
16:09
especially the transition
from the first to the second.
from the first to the second.
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naročito prelaz iz prve u drugu.
16:12
And to be castigating China
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A kritikovati Kinu
16:15
for doing that which the West did
in the 19th century,
in the 19th century,
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zato što radi
ono što je Zapad radio u 19. veku
ono što je Zapad radio u 19. veku
16:18
smacks of hypocrisy.
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ima šmek licemerstva.
16:21
BG: I am sure that many people here
are wondering about your experience
are wondering about your experience
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BĐ: Siguran sam da se mnogi ovde
pitaju o tvom iskustvu
pitaju o tvom iskustvu
16:25
as the Finance Minister of Greece
earlier this year.
earlier this year.
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ministra finansija Grčke
ranije ove godine.
ranije ove godine.
JV: Očekivao sam to pitanje.
16:27
YV: I knew this was coming.
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BĐ: Da.
16:29
BG: Yes.
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977365
1251
16:30
BG: Six months after,
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1336
Šest meseci kasnije,
16:32
how do you look back
at the first half of the year?
at the first half of the year?
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kako sad gledaš na prvu polovinu godine?
16:35
YV: Extremely exciting,
from a personal point of view,
from a personal point of view,
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2616
JV: Izuzetno je uzbudljivo,
s lične tačke gledišta
s lične tačke gledišta
16:38
and very disappointing,
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i veoma razočaravajuće
16:39
because we had an opportunity
to reboot the Eurozone.
to reboot the Eurozone.
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jer smo imali šansu
da nanovo definišemo Evrozonu.
da nanovo definišemo Evrozonu.
16:43
Not just Greece, the Eurozone.
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Ne samo Grčku, već Evrozonu.
16:45
To move away from the complacency
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Da napravimo otklon od samozadovoljstva
16:48
and the constant denial
that there was a massive --
that there was a massive --
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2456
i stalnog poricanja da smo imali ogromnu -
16:51
and there is a massive
architectural fault line
architectural fault line
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2856
i dalje imamo ogromnu
arhitektonsku pukotinu
arhitektonsku pukotinu
16:54
going through the Eurozone,
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koja prolazi Evrozonom,
16:56
which is threatening, massively,
the whole of the European Union process.
the whole of the European Union process.
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4416
koja masivno preti
celokupnim procesima Evropske unije.
celokupnim procesima Evropske unije.
17:00
We had an opportunity
on the basis of the Greek program --
on the basis of the Greek program --
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3176
Imali smo šansu,
na osnovu grčkog programa -
na osnovu grčkog programa -
17:04
which by the way,
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koji je usput
17:05
was the first program
to manifest that denial --
to manifest that denial --
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4376
bio prvi program
koji je obelodanio to poricanje -
koji je obelodanio to poricanje -
17:09
to put it right.
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1216
da ispravimo stvari.
17:11
And, unfortunately,
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A, nažalost,
17:12
the powers in the Eurozone,
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snage u Evrozoni,
17:14
in the Eurogroup,
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1200
u Evrogrupi,
17:16
chose to maintain denial.
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1977
biraju da održavaju to poricanje.
Ali znate o čemu se radi.
17:18
But you know what happens.
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17:19
This is the experience
of the Soviet Union.
of the Soviet Union.
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To je iskustvo Sovjetskog saveza.
17:21
When you try to keep alive
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1029440
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Kada pokušavate da održite u životu
17:23
an economic system
that architecturally cannot survive,
that architecturally cannot survive,
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ekonomski sistem,
koji arhitektonski ne može da preživi,
koji arhitektonski ne može da preživi,
17:28
through political will
and through authoritarianism,
and through authoritarianism,
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političkom voljom i autoritarnošću,
17:31
you may succeed in prolonging it,
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možda ćete uspeti da ga produžite,
17:32
but when change happens
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ali kada dođe do promene,
17:34
it happens very abruptly
and catastrophically.
and catastrophically.
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ona se dešava naglo i katastrofalno.
17:37
BG: What kind of change
are you foreseeing?
are you foreseeing?
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2007
BĐ: Kakvu promenu predviđaš?
17:39
YV: Well, there's no doubt
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JV: Pa, nema sumnje
17:40
that if we don't change
the architecture of the Eurozone,
the architecture of the Eurozone,
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da ako ne promenimo arhitekturu Evrozone,
17:43
the Eurozone has no future.
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1051001
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Evrozona nema budućnost.
BĐ: Da li si napravio neku grešku
dok si bio ministar finansija?
dok si bio ministar finansija?
17:44
BG: Did you make any mistakes
when you were Finance Minister?
when you were Finance Minister?
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2896
17:47
YV: Every day.
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JV: Svakodnevno.
17:49
BG: For example?
YV: Anybody who looks back --
YV: Anybody who looks back --
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BĐ: Na primer? JV: Svako ko se osvrne -
17:51
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
17:56
No, but seriously.
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Ne, ozbiljno.
17:57
If there's any Minister of Finance,
or of anything else for that matter,
or of anything else for that matter,
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Ako postoji ijedan ministar finansija
ili bilo čega drugog,
ili bilo čega drugog,
18:01
who tells you after six months in a job,
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koji vam nakon šest meseci na poslu kaže,
18:03
especially in such a stressful situation,
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3696
naročito u tako stresnoj situaciji,
da nisu napravili nikakvu grešku,
radi se o opasnim ljudima.
radi se o opasnim ljudima.
18:07
that they have made no mistake,
they're dangerous people.
they're dangerous people.
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18:09
Of course I made mistakes.
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Naravno da sam grešio.
18:11
The greatest mistake
was to sign the application
was to sign the application
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Najveća greška je što sam potpisao molbu
18:13
for the extension of a loan agreement
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1081960
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za produženje dogovora o zajmu
18:16
in the end of February.
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krajem februara.
18:17
I was imagining
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Zamišljao sam
18:18
that there was a genuine interest
on the side of the creditors
on the side of the creditors
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da postoji stvarna zainteresovanost
od strane kreditora
od strane kreditora
da se nađe zajednički jezik.
18:21
to find common ground.
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18:23
And there wasn't.
365
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Međutim nije tako bilo.
18:24
They were simply interested
in crushing our government,
in crushing our government,
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Jedino ih je interesovalo
da sruše našu vladu,
da sruše našu vladu,
18:27
just because they did not want
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samo zato što nisu želeli
18:28
to have to deal with
the architectural fault lines
the architectural fault lines
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da budu prinuđeni da se bave
arhitektonskim pukotinama
arhitektonskim pukotinama
18:31
that were running through the Eurozone.
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2016
koje se šire Evrozonom.
18:33
And because they didn't want to admit
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1816
I zato što nisu želeli da priznaju
18:35
that for five years they were implementing
a catastrophic program in Greece.
a catastrophic program in Greece.
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3616
da su tokom pet godina primenjivali
katastrofalan program u Grčkoj.
katastrofalan program u Grčkoj.
18:39
We lost one-third of our nominal GDP.
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2896
Izgubili smo trećinu
našeg nominalnog BDP-a.
našeg nominalnog BDP-a.
18:42
This is worse than the Great Depression.
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1936
Ovo je gore od Velike depresije.
A niko nije izneo na videlo,
18:44
And no one has come clean
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18:45
from the troika of lenders
that have been imposing this policy
that have been imposing this policy
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od strane kreditorske trojke
koja je primenjivala ovu politiku
koja je primenjivala ovu politiku
18:48
to say, "This was a colossal mistake."
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priznanje: "Ovo je bila kolosalna greška."
18:51
BG: Despite all this,
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BĐ: Uprkos svemu ovome,
18:52
and despite the aggressiveness
of the discussion,
of the discussion,
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2336
i uprkos agresivnosti diskusije,
18:55
you seem to be remaining
quite pro-European.
quite pro-European.
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2416
čini se da si i dalje
prilično pro-Evropljanin.
prilično pro-Evropljanin.
18:57
YV: Absolutely.
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1216
JV: Apsolutno.
18:58
Look, my criticism
of the European Union and the Eurozone
of the European Union and the Eurozone
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4136
Vidite, moja kritika
Evropske unije i Evrozone
Evropske unije i Evrozone
19:02
comes from a person
who lives and breathes Europe.
who lives and breathes Europe.
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dolazi od osobe koja živi i diše Evropu.
19:07
My greatest fear is that
the Eurozone will not survive.
the Eurozone will not survive.
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Moj najveći strah
je da Evrozona neće preživeti.
je da Evrozona neće preživeti.
19:11
Because if it doesn't,
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1456
Jer, ako ne preživi,
19:12
the centrifugal forces
that will be unleashed
that will be unleashed
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2856
centrifugalne sile koje će se osloboditi
19:15
will be demonic,
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1696
će da budu demonske
19:17
and they will destroy the European Union.
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1976
i uništiće Evropsku uniju.
19:19
And that will be catastrophic
not just for Europe
not just for Europe
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2416
A to će da bude katastrofalno,
ne samo za Evropu,
ne samo za Evropu,
već za celokupnu globalnu ekonomiju.
19:21
but for the whole global economy.
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19:23
We are probably the largest
economy in the world.
economy in the world.
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4096
Mi smo najverovatnije
najveća ekonomija na svetu.
najveća ekonomija na svetu.
19:27
And if we allow ourselves
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1155560
1736
I, ako dozvolimo sebi
19:29
to fall into a route
of the postmodern 1930's,
of the postmodern 1930's,
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2816
da skliznemo na trasu
postmodernih 1930-ih,
postmodernih 1930-ih,
19:32
which seems to me to be what we are doing,
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2656
a čini mi se da to radimo,
19:34
then that will be detrimental
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1816
onda će to da bude štetno
19:36
to the future of Europeans
and non-Europeans alike.
and non-Europeans alike.
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1164680
3416
po budućnost Evropljana
i sličnih neevropljana.
i sličnih neevropljana.
19:40
BG: We definitely hope
you are wrong on that point.
you are wrong on that point.
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2416
BĐ: Definitivno se nadamo
da grešiš po tom pitanju.
da grešiš po tom pitanju.
19:42
Yanis, thank you for coming to TED.
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Janise, hvala što si došao na TED.
19:44
YV: Thank you.
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JV: Hvala vama.
19:45
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Yanis Varoufakis - Economist and professorYanis Varoufakis thinks we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism.
Why you should listen
Yanis Varoufakis describes himself as a "libertarian Marxist," although, he says, "It is not something that I volunteer to talk about much, because the very mention of Marx switches audiences off." He teaches economic theory at the University of Athens, where he challenges mainstream notions -- arguing that after the financial crash of 2008 we need a radically new way of thinking about the economy, finance and capitalism.
He became widely known in the first half of 2015 when, as Minister of Finance of the newly formed Greek government, he was a leading, outspoken and much-discussed figure in the renegotiations of Greece's debt.
In May 2017, Varoufakis released Adults in The Room: My Battle With Europe’s Deep Establishment, a personal account of Europe's hidden agenda and an urgent wake-up call to renew European democracy.
Yanis Varoufakis | Speaker | TED.com