TEDxRiodelaPlata
Dan Ariely: What makes us feel good about our work?
Dan Ariely: Hvad får os til at have det godt med vores arbejde?
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Hvad motiverer os til at arbejde? I modsætning til sædvanlig visdom, er det ikke kun penge. Men det er heller ikke glæde. Det lader til at de fleste af os trives ved konstant fremskridt og en følelse af formål. Adfærdsøkonom Dan Ariely præsenterer to øjeåbnende forsøg, der afslører vores uventede og nuancerede holdninger til mening i vores arbejde. (TEDxRiodelaPlata.)
Dan Ariely - Behavioral economist
The dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely told us why. Full bio
The dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely told us why. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I want to talk a little bit today
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Jeg vil i dag tale lidt om
00:14
about labor and work.
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slid og arbejde.
00:18
When we think about how people work,
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Når vi tænker på hvordan mennesker arbejder,
00:21
the naive intuition we have
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har vi den naive intuition
00:23
is that people are like rats in a maze --
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at mennesker er ligesom rotter i en labyrint --
00:25
that all people care about is money,
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at mennesker kun tænker på penge,
00:28
and the moment we give people money,
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og øjeblikket vi giver mennesker penge,
00:29
we can direct them to work one way,
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kan vi dirigere dem på arbejde på den ene måde,
00:31
we can direct them to work another way.
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vi kan dirigere dem på arbejde på en anden måde.
00:33
This is why we give bonuses to bankers and pay in all kinds of ways.
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Dette er grunden til at vi giver bonuser til bankier og betaler på alle mulige måder.
00:36
And we really have this incredibly simplistic view
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Og vi har i virkeligheden dette utrolig simple syn
00:40
of why people work and what the labor market looks like.
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på hvorfor mennesker arbejder og hvordan arbejdsmarkedet ser ud.
00:44
At the same time, if you think about it,
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Samtidig, hvis man tænker over det,
00:47
there's all kinds of strange behaviors in the world around us.
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er der mange mærkelige adfærd i verden omkring os.
00:50
Think about something like mountaineering and mountain climbing.
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Tænk på noget som bjergbestigning og bjergklatring.
00:53
If you read books of people who climb mountains, difficult mountains,
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Hvis man læser om mennesker der bestiger bjerge, svære bjerge,
00:58
do you think that those books are full of moments of joy and happiness?
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tror I så at de bøger er fulde af øjeblikke med lykke og glæde?
01:03
No, they are full of misery.
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Nej, de er fyldte med elendighed.
01:05
In fact, it's all about frostbite and difficulty to walk
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Faktisk handler det om forfrysninger og gangbesvær
01:09
and difficulty of breathing --
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og besvær med at trække vejret --
01:11
cold, challenging circumstances.
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koldt, udfordrende omstændigheder.
01:14
And if people were just trying to be happy,
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Og hvis folk bare prøvede at være lykkelige,
01:16
the moment they would get to the top,
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det øjeblik de nåede toppen,
01:18
they would say, "This was a terrible mistake.
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ville de sige, "Dette var en forfærdelig fejltagelse.
01:20
I'll never do it again."
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Det gør jeg aldrig igen."
01:21
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
01:23
"Instead, let me sit on a beach somewhere drinking mojitos."
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"Lad mig i stedet sidde på en strand et eller andet sted og drikke mojitos."
01:27
But instead, people go down,
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Men i stedet går folk ned,
01:30
and after they recover, they go up again.
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og efter de kommer sig, går de op igen.
01:33
And if you think about mountain climbing as an example,
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Og hvis man tager bjergbestigning som eksempel,
01:36
it suggests all kinds of things.
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tyder det på alle mulige ting.
01:38
It suggests that we care about reaching the end, a peak.
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Det tyder på at vi bekymrer os om at nå destinationen, en top.
01:42
It suggests that we care about the fight, about the challenge.
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Det tyder på at vi bemkymrer os om kampen, om udfordringen.
01:46
It suggests that there's all kinds of other things
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Det tyder på at der er alle mulige andre ting
01:48
that motivate us to work or behave in all kinds of ways.
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der motiverer os til at arbejde eller opføre os på alle mulige måder.
01:53
And for me personally, I started thinking about this
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Og for mig personligt, begyndte jeg at tænke på dette
01:56
after a student came to visit me.
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efter en studerende kom for at besøge mig.
01:59
This was a student that was one of my students a few years earlier.
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Dette var en studerende der havde været en af mine studerende et par år forinden.
02:03
And he came one day back to campus.
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Og en dag kom han tilbage på campus.
02:05
And he told me the following story:
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Og han fortalte mig den følgende historie:
02:08
He said that for more than two weeks, he was working on a PowerPoint presentation.
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Han sagde at han i mere end to uger havde arbejdet på en PowerPoint præsentation.
02:13
He was working in a big bank.
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Han arbejdede i en stor bank.
02:15
This was in preparation for a merger and acquisition.
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Dette var som forberedelse for en fusionering og en overtagelse.
02:19
And he was working very hard on this presentation --
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Og han arbejdede meget hårdt på denne præsentation --
02:21
graphs, tables, information.
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diagrammer, tabeller, information.
02:23
He stayed late at night every day.
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Han arbejdede over hver aften.
02:27
And the day before it was due,
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Og dagen inden det skulle være færdigt,
02:29
he sent his PowerPoint presentation to his boss,
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sendte han sin PowerPoint præsentation til sin chef,
02:32
and his boss wrote him back and said,
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og hans chef skrev tilbage til ham og sagde,
02:35
"Nice presentation, but the merger is canceled."
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"Fin præsentation, men fusionen er annuleret."
02:40
And the guy was deeply depressed.
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Og fyren blev utrolig deprimeret.
02:42
Now at the moment when he was working,
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På det tidspunkt da han arbejdede,
02:44
he was actually quite happy.
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var han faktisk temmelig lykkelig.
02:46
Every night he was enjoying his work,
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Hver nat nød han sit arbejde,
02:48
he was staying late, he was perfecting this PowerPoint presentation.
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han arbejdede over, han perfektionerede sin PowerPoint præsentation.
02:53
But knowing that nobody would ever watch that made him quite depressed.
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Men at vide at ingen nogensinde kom til at se det gjorde ham temmelig deprimeret.
02:58
So I started thinking about how do we experiment
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Jeg begyndte at tænke på hvordan vi eksperimenterer
03:01
with this idea of the fruits of our labor.
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med denne ide om resultatet på vores lid.
03:05
And to start with, we created a little experiment
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Og til at starte med skabte vi et lille eksperiment
03:09
in which we gave people Legos, and we asked them to build with Legos.
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hvor vi gav mennesker Lego, og vi bad dem om at bygge med Lego.
03:15
And for some people, we gave them Legos and we said,
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Og for nogle mennesker, gav vi dem Lego og vi sagde,
03:19
"Hey, would you like to build this Bionicle for three dollars?
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"Hey, vil du bygge denne Bionicle for tre dollars?
03:24
We'll pay you three dollars for it."
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Vi betaler dig tre dollars for den."
03:26
And people said yes, and they built with these Legos.
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Og folk sagde ja, og de byggede med disse Legoer.
03:29
And when they finished, we took it, we put it under the table,
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Og når de blev færdige, tog vi det, vi satte det under bordet,
03:33
and we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for $2.70?"
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og vi sagde, "Vil du bygge endnu en, denne gang for $2.70?"
03:38
If they said yes, we gave them another one.
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Hvis de sagde ja gav vi dem endnu en.
03:40
And when they finished, we asked them,
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Og når de var færdige, spurgte vi dem,
03:41
"Do you want to build another one?" for $2.40, $2.10, and so on,
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"Vil du bygge endnu en?" for $2.40, $2.10 og så videre,
03:46
until at some point people said, "No more. It's not worth it for me."
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indtil folk på et tidspunkt sagde, "Ikke mere. Det er det ikke værd for mig."
03:51
This was what we called the meaningful condition.
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Det var det vi kaldte den meningsfulde betingelse.
03:54
People built one Bionicle after another.
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Folk byggede den ene Bionicle efter den anden.
03:57
After they finished every one of them, we put them under the table.
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Efter de blev færdige med hver eneste, satte vi dem under bordet.
04:00
And we told them that at the end of the experiment,
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Og vi fortalte dem at vi i slutningen af eksperimentet,
04:03
we will take all these Bionicles, we will disassemble them,
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ville vi tage alle disse Bionicles, ville vi skille dem ad,
04:06
we will put them back in the boxes, and we will use it for the next participant.
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putte dem tilbage i æsken, og vi bruger dem til den næste deltager.
04:11
There was another condition.
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Der var en anden betingelse.
04:13
This other condition was inspired by David, my student.
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Den anden betingelse var inspireret af David, min studerende.
04:17
And this other condition we called the Sisyphic condition.
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Og denne anden betingelse kaldte vi Sisyfos betingelsen.
04:21
And if you remember the story about Sisyphus,
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Og hvis man husker historien om Sisyfos,
04:23
Sisyphus was punished by the gods to push the same rock up a hill,
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Sisyfos blev straffet af guderne til at skubbe den samme sten op af bakken,
04:28
and when he almost got to the end,
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og når han næsten nåede slutningen,
04:30
the rock would roll over, and he would have to start again.
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ville stenen rulle tilbage, og han skulle starte forfra.
04:33
And you can think about this as the essence of doing futile work.
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Og man kan se på dette som essensen af at lave forgæves arbejde.
04:38
You can imagine that if he pushed the rock on different hills,
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Man kan forestille sig at hvis han skubbede stenen op af forskellige bakker,
04:41
at least he would have some sense of progress.
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ville han i det mindste have en følelse af fremskridt.
04:44
Also, if you look at prison movies,
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Derudover, hvis man ser på film der foregår i fængslet,
04:46
sometimes the way that the guards torture the prisoners
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piner vagterne nogen gange de indsatte ved at
04:50
is to get them to dig a hole
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få dem til at grave et hul
04:52
and when the prisoner is finished, they ask him to fill the hole back up and then dig again.
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og når den indsatte er færdig, beder de ham om at dække hullet til, og begynde at grave igen.
04:56
There's something about this cyclical version
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Der er noget ved denne cykliske version
04:59
of doing something over and over and over
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af at gøre noget igen og igen og igen
05:01
that seems to be particularly demotivating.
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der lader til at være særlig demotiverende.
05:04
So in the second condition of this experiment, that's exactly what we did.
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Så i den anden betingelse for eksperimentet er det præcis hvad vi gjorde.
05:07
We asked people, "Would you like to build one Bionicle for three dollars?"
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Vi spurgte folk, "Kunne du tænkte dig at bygge en Bionicle for tre dollars?"
05:12
And if they said yes, they built it.
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Og hvis de sagde ja, byggede de den.
05:14
Then we asked them, "Do you want to build another one for $2.70?"
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Så spurgte vi dem, "Kunne du tænke dig at bygge endnu en for $2.70?"
05:18
And if they said yes, we gave them a new one,
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Og hvis de sagde ja, gav vi dem en ny en,
05:21
and as they were building it,
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og i takt med at de byggede den,
05:23
we took apart the one that they just finished.
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skillede vi den ad som de lige havde færdiggjort.
05:26
And when they finished that,
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Og da de blev færdige med den,
05:29
we said, "Would you like to build another one, this time for 30 cents less?"
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sagde vi, "Kunne du tænke dig at bygge endnu en, denne gang for 30 cent mindre?"
05:32
And if they said yes, we gave them the one that they built and we broke.
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Og hvis de sagde ja, gav vi dem den de lige havde bygget og som vi skilte ad.
05:36
So this was an endless cycle
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Så dette var en endeløs cyklus
05:39
of them building and us destroying in front of their eyes.
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af at de byggede og vi skilte det ad foran deres øjne.
05:44
Now what happens when you compare these two conditions?
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Hvad sker der hvis man sammenligner disse to betingelser?
05:48
The first thing that happened
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Det første der skete
05:49
was that people built many more Bionicles -- they built 11 versus seven --
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var at folk byggede mange flere Bionicles -- de byggede 11 mod 7 --
05:53
in the meaningful condition versus the Sisyphus condition.
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i den meningsfyldte betingelse imod Sisyfos betingelsen.
05:56
And by the way, we should point out that this was not a big meaning.
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Og for øvrigt, bør vi nævne at dette ikke var af stor betydning.
05:59
People were not curing cancer or building bridges.
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Folk kurerede ikke kræft eller byggede broer.
06:02
People were building Bionicles for a few cents.
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Folk byggede Bionicles for et par cent.
06:06
And not only that, everybody knew that the Bionicles would be destroyed quite soon.
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Og ikke nok med det, alle vidste at de Bionicles blev skilt ad temmelig hurtigt derefter.
06:11
So there was not a real opportunity for big meaning.
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Så der var ikke rigtig en mulighed for stor betydning.
06:14
But even the small meaning made a difference.
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Men selv den lille mening gjorde en forskel.
06:18
Now we had another version of this experiment.
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Nu havde vi en anden version af dette eksperiment.
06:20
In this other version of the experiment,
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I denne anden version af eksperimentet,
06:22
we didn't put people in this situation,
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vi satte ikke folk i denne situation,
06:24
we just described to them the situation, much as I am describing to you now,
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vi beskrev bare situationen for dem, ligesom jeg beskriver den for jer nu,
06:28
and we asked them to predict what the result would be.
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og vi bad dem om at forudisge hvad resultatet ville være.
06:31
What happened?
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Hvad skete der?
06:33
People predicted the right direction but not the right magnitude.
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Folk forudså den rigtige retning, men ikke den rigtige størrelsesorden.
06:37
People who were just given the description of the experiment
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Folk der kun blev givet beskrivelsen af eksperimentet
06:41
said that in the meaningful condition people would probably build one more Bionicle.
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sagde at folk i den meningsfyldte betingelse sikkert ville bygge en Bionicle mere.
06:45
So people understand that meaning is important,
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Så folk forstår at mening er vigtigt,
06:47
they just don't understand the magnitude of the importance,
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de forstår bare ikke størrelsesordenen af vigtigheden,
06:50
the extent to which it's important.
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i hvor stor grad det er vigtigt.
06:52
There was one other piece of data we looked at.
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Der var et andet stykke data vi kiggede efter.
06:55
If you think about it, there are some people who love Legos and some people who don't.
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Hvis man tænker over det, er der nogle mennesker der kan elsker Lego, og nogle der ikke gør.
07:00
And you would speculate that the people who love Legos
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Og man kunne spekulere at de mennesker der elsker Lego
07:02
will build more Legos, even for less money,
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vil bygge mere Lego, selv for færre penge,
07:05
because after all, they get more internal joy from it.
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fordi de får trods alt mere indvendig glæde af det.
07:08
And the people who love Legos less will build less Legos
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Og de mennesker der holder mindre af Lego vil bygge mindre Lego
07:11
because the enjoyment that they derive from it is lower.
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fordi glæden de får af det er lavere.
07:14
And that's actually what we found in the meaningful condition.
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Og det er faktisk det vi fandt ud af i den meningsfyldte betingelse.
07:17
There was a very nice correlation between love of Lego
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Der var en meget fin korrelation mellem kærlighed til Lego
07:20
and the amount of Legos people built.
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og den mængde Lego som folk byggede.
07:22
What happened in the Sisyphic condition?
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Hvad skete der under Sisyfos betingelsen?
07:25
In that condition the correlation was zero.
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I den betingelse var korrelationen nul.
07:28
There was no relationship between the love of Lego and how much people built,
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Der var ikke noget forhold mellem kærligheden til Lego og hvor meget folk byggede,
07:32
which suggests to me that with this manipulation
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hvilket viser mig at man med denne manipulation
07:35
of breaking things in front of people's eyes,
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med at skille ting ad foran folk øjne,
07:37
we basically crushed any joy that they could get out of this activity.
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dybest set smadrede enhver glæde som de kunne få ud af denne aktivitet.
07:42
We basically eliminated it.
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Vi eliminerede det dybest set.
07:45
Soon after I finished running this experiment,
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Kort efter jeg stoppede med at udføre dette eksperiment,
07:49
I went to talk to a big software company in Seattle.
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tog jeg ud og talte med et stort software selskab i Seattle.
07:53
I can't tell you who they were, but they were a big company in Seattle.
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Jeg kan ikke fortælle jer hvem det var, men det var et stort firma i Seattle.
07:56
And this was a group within this software company that was put in a different building.
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Og dette var en gruppe indenfor software firmaet der blev placeret i en anden bygning.
08:01
And they asked them to innovate and create the next big product for this company.
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Og de bad dem om at innovere og skabe det næste store produkt for dette firma.
08:06
And the week before I showed up,
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Og ugen inden jeg kom,
08:08
the CEO of this big software company went to that group, 200 engineers,
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gik den administrerende direktør for dette store selskab hen til den gruppe, 200 ingeniører,
08:12
and canceled the project.
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og afblæste projektet.
08:15
And I stood there in front of 200 of the most depressed people I've ever talked to.
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Og jeg stod der foran 200 af de mest deprimerede mennesker jeg nogensinde har talt med.
08:20
And I described to them some of these Lego experiments,
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Og jeg beskrev nogle af disse Lego eksperimenter for dem,
08:23
and they said they felt like they had just been through that experiment.
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og de sagde at de alle følte det som om de lige var gået igennem det eksperiment.
08:28
And I asked them, I said,
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Og jeg spurgte dem, jeg sagde,
08:30
"How many of you now show up to work later than you used to?"
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"Hvor mange af jer kommer nu senere på arbejde end I plejede?"
08:33
And everybody raised their hand.
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Og alle rakte hånden op.
08:35
I said, "How many of you now go home earlier than you used to?"
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Jeg sagde, "Hvor mange af jer tager hjem tidligere end I plejede?"
08:38
And everybody raised their hand.
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Og alle rakte hånden op.
08:40
I asked them, "How many of you now add not-so-kosher things to your expense reports?"
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Jeg spurgte dem, "Hvor mange af jer tilføjer ikke-helt-i-orden ting til jeres udgifts bilag?"
08:46
And they didn't really raise their hands,
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Og de rakte ikke hånden op,
08:48
but they took me out to dinner and showed me what they could do with expense reports.
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men de tog mig med ud og spise, og de viste mig hvad de kunne gøre med udgiftsbilag.
08:53
And then I asked them, I said,
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Og jeg spurgte dem, jeg sagde,
08:55
"What could the CEO have done to make you not as depressed?"
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"Hvad kunne den administrerende direktør have gjort, for at gøre jer knap så deprimerede?"
09:00
And they came up with all kinds of ideas.
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Og de kom med alle mulige ideer.
09:02
They said the CEO could have asked them to present to the whole company
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De sagde at den administrerende direktør kunne have bedt dem om at fremlægge hele deres rejse
09:05
about their journey over the last two years and what they decided to do.
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i løbet af de sidste to år for firmaet, og hvad de besluttede at gøre.
09:09
He could have asked them to think about which aspect of their technology
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Han kunne have bedt dem om at tænke på hvilket del af deres teknologi
09:12
could fit with other parts of the organization.
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kunne passe i andre dele af organisationen.
09:16
He could have asked them to build some prototypes, some next-generation prototypes,
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Han kunne have bedt dem om at bygge nogle prototyper, nogle næste generations prototyper,
09:19
and seen how they would work.
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og se hvordan de fungerede.
09:21
But the thing is that any one of those
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Men det der er ved det er, at enhver af de muligheder
09:23
would require some effort and motivation.
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kræver nogen indsats og motivation.
09:26
And I think the CEO basically did not understand the importance of meaning.
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Og jeg tror den administrerende direktør dybest set ikke forstod betydningen af mening.
09:30
If the CEO, just like our participants,
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Hvis den administrerende direktør, ligesom vores deltagere,
09:33
thought the essence of meaning is unimportant,
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mente at essensen af mening er ubetydelig,
09:36
then he [wouldn't] care.
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så ville han være ligeglad.
09:37
And he would tell them, "At the moment I directed you in this way,
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Og han sagde til dem, "På det tidspunkt dirigerede jeg jer denne vej,
09:40
and now that I am directing you in this way,
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og nu dirigerer jeg jer denne vej,
09:42
everything will be okay."
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1960
det skal nok gå det hele.
09:44
But if you understood how important meaning is,
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Men hvis man forstår hvor vigtigt mening er,
09:46
then you would figure out that it's actually important
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så ville man se at det faktisk er vigtigt
09:49
to spend some time, energy and effort
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at bruge noget tid, energi og umage
09:50
in getting people to care more about what they're doing.
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på at få folk til at bekymre sig mere om hvad de laver.
09:54
The next experiment was slightly different.
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Den næste eksperiment var lidt anderledes.
09:57
We took a sheet of paper with random letters,
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Vi tog et ark papir med tilfældige bogstaver,
09:59
and we asked people to find pairs of letters that were identical next to each other.
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og vi bad folk om at finde bogstav par der var identiske ved siden af hinanden.
10:04
That was the task.
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Det ar opgaven.
10:05
And people did the first sheet.
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Og folk lavede det første ark.
10:06
And then we asked them if they wanted to do the next sheet for a little bit less money
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Og så spurgte vi dem om de kunne lave det næste ark for lidt færre penge,
10:09
and the next sheet for a little bit less money, and so on and so forth.
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og den næste for lidt færre penge, og så videre og så videre.
10:12
And we had three conditions.
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Og vi havde tre betingelser.
10:14
In the first condition, people wrote their name on the sheet,
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I den første betingelse, skrev folk deres navn på et ark,
10:18
found all the pairs of letters, gave it to the experimenter.
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fandt alle bogstav parrene, gav det til undersøgeren.
10:22
The experimenter would look at it, scan it from top to bottom,
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Undersøgeren kiggede på det, skannede det ovenfra og ned,
10:25
say "uh huh" and put it on the pile next to them.
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sagde "uh huh" og lagde det i stakken ved siden af sig.
10:30
In the second condition, people did not write their name on it.
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I det andet forhold, skrev folk ikke deres navn på det.
10:33
The experimenter looked at it,
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Undersøgeren kiggede på det,
10:36
took the sheet of paper, did not look at it, did not scan it,
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tog endnu et ark papir, kiggede ikke på det, skannede det ikke,
10:39
and simply put it on the pile of pages.
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og lagde det bare i stakken af sider.
10:42
So you take a piece, you just put it on the side.
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Så man tager et stykke, man lægger det bare til side.
10:45
And in the third condition,
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Og i det tredje forhold,
10:46
the experimenter got the sheet of paper and directly put it into a shredder.
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fik undersøgeren papirarket og puttede det direkte i en makulatur.
10:54
What happened in those three conditions?
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Hvad skete der med de tre forhold?
10:57
In this plot I'm showing you at what pay rate people stopped.
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I dette diagram viser jeg jer ved hvilken betaling folk stoppede.
11:02
So low numbers mean that people worked harder. They worked for much longer.
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Lave tal betyder at folk arbejdede hårdere. De arbejdede meget længere.
11:06
In the acknowledged condition, people worked all the way down to 15 cents.
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I det anerkendende forhold, arbejdede folk helt ned til 15 cent.
11:11
At 15 cents per page, they basically stopped these efforts.
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Ved 15 cent per side, stoppede de dybest set med deres anstrengelser.
11:15
In the shredder condition, it was twice as much -- 30 cents per sheet.
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4755
I makulatur forholdet, var det dobbelt så meget -- 30 cent per side.
11:20
And this is basically the result we had before.
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Og det er dybest set det resultat vi havde før.
11:22
You shred people's efforts, output,
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Man makulerer folks anstrengelser, resultater,
11:25
you get them not to be as happy with what they're doing.
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man får dem til at blive mindre glade med det de laver.
11:28
But I should point out, by the way,
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Men jeg bør pointere, for øvrigt,
11:29
that in the shredder condition, people could have cheated.
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at i makulatur forholdet, kunne folk have snydt.
11:32
They could have done not so good work,
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De kunne have lavet et mindre godt stykke arbejde,
11:34
because they realized that people were just shredding it.
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2503
fordi de blev klar over at folk bare makulerede det.
11:37
So maybe the first sheet you would do good work,
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Så måske gør man et godt stykke arbejde med det første ark,
11:39
but then you see nobody is really testing it,
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men så ser man at der ikke er nogen der retter det,
11:41
so you would do more and more and more.
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så man kan lave, flere og flere og flere.
11:43
So in fact, in the shredder condition,
220
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Faktisk, i makulatur forholdet,
11:45
people could have submitted more work and gotten more money
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kunne folk have afleveret mere arbejde og fået flere penge
11:47
and put less effort into it.
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2419
og gjort sig mindre umagen.
11:50
But what about the ignored condition?
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Men hvad med det ignorerende forhold?
11:52
Would the ignored condition be more like the acknowledged or more like the shredder,
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Ville det ignorerende forhold være mere ligesom det anerkendende eller mere ligesom med makulaturen,
11:55
or somewhere in the middle?
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2019
eller et sted midt i mellem?
11:58
It turns out it was almost like the shredder.
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3356
Det viser sig, at det var næsten magen til makulaturen.
12:01
Now there's good news and bad news here.
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Nu er der godt nyt og der er dårligt nyt.
12:04
The bad news is that ignoring the performance of people
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Den dårlige nyhed er, at ignorere andre folks præstation
12:08
is almost as bad as shredding their effort in front of their eyes.
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er næsten lige så slemt som at makulere deres indsats for deres øjnene.
12:13
Ignoring gets you a whole way out there.
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At ignorere får en næsten helt derud.
12:17
The good news is that by simply looking at something that somebody has done,
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Den gode nyhed er, at ved bare at kigge på noget som nogen har lavet,
12:21
scanning it and saying "uh huh,"
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skimme det og sige "uh huh,"
12:23
that seems to be quite sufficient
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1404
det lader til at være ganske tilstrækkeligt
12:25
to dramatically improve people's motivations.
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til dramatisk at forbedre folks motivationer.
12:28
So the good news is that adding motivation doesn't seem to be so difficult.
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Så den gode nyhed er at det ser ud til det ikke er svært at give motivation.
12:33
The bad news is that eliminating motivations
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Den dårlige nyhed er, at eliminere motivationer
12:36
seems to be incredibly easy,
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ser ud til at være utrolig nemt,
12:37
and if we don't think about it carefully, we might overdo it.
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og hvis vi ikke tænker forsigtigt over det, overdriver vi det måske.
12:41
So this is all in terms of negative motivation
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Dette er alt sammen med hensyn til de negative motivationer
12:45
or eliminating negative motivation.
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2883
eller at eliminere de negative motivationer.
12:47
The next part I want to show you is something about the positive motivation.
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Den næste del jeg vil vise jer er noget om de positive motivationer.
12:52
So there is a store in the U.S. called IKEA.
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4128
Her er der en forretning i USA der hedder IKEA.
12:56
And IKEA is a store with kind of okay furniture that takes a long time to assemble.
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6848
Og IKEA er en forretning med møbler der er okay, som er svære at samle.
13:03
(Laughter)
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771390
1950
(Latter)
13:05
And I don't know about you, but every time I assemble one of those,
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773340
2840
Og jeg ved ikke med jer, men hver gang jeg samler en af dem,
13:08
it takes me much longer, it's much more effortful, it's much more confusing.
246
776180
4086
tager det meget længere tid, det kræver langt flere anstrengelser, det er meget mere forvirrende.
13:12
I put things in the wrong way.
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Jeg samler det på den forkerte måde.
13:15
I can't say enjoy those pieces.
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2604
Jeg kan ikke sige at jeg nyder delene.
13:17
I can't say I enjoy the process.
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Jeg kan ikke sige at jeg nyder processen.
13:21
But when I finish it, I seem to like those IKEA pieces of furniture
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3863
Men når jeg færdiggør det, er det som om jeg bedre kan lide de IKEA møbler
13:24
more than I like other ones.
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end nogen af de andre.
13:27
And there's an old story about cake mixes.
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4372
Og der er en gammel historie om miksere.
13:31
So when they started cake mixes in the '40s,
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3028
Da de begyndte at lave bland-selv kagemix tilbage i 40'erne,
13:34
they would take this powder and they would put it in a box,
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3815
tog de dette pulver og de puttede det i en æske,
13:38
and they would ask housewives to basically pour it in, stir some water in it,
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4439
og de bad husfruer dybest set om at hælde det i, tilsætte noget vand,
13:42
mix it, put it in the oven, and -- voila! -- you had cake.
256
810928
4512
blande det, sætte det i ovnen, og -- viola! -- man havde kage.
13:47
But it turns out they were very unpopular.
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2199
Men det viser sig at de var meget upopulære.
13:49
People did not want them.
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1785
Folk ville ikke have det.
13:51
And they thought about all kinds of reasons for that.
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Og de tænkte på alle mulige årsager til det.
13:53
Maybe the taste was not good.
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Måske var smagen ikke god.
13:55
No, the taste was great.
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Nej, smagen var fantastisk.
13:56
What they figured out was that there was not enough effort involved.
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Det de fandt frem til var, at der ikke krævede en stor nok indsats.
14:01
It was so easy that nobody could serve cake to their guests
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Det var så nemt at inden kunne servere kagen for deres gæster
14:05
and say, "Here is my cake."
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2308
og sige, "Her er min kage."
14:07
No, no, no, it was somebody else's cake.
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1569
Nej, nej, nej, det var en andens kage.
14:08
It was as if you bought it in the store.
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2015
Det var som om man havde købt den i supermarkedet.
14:10
It didn't really feel like your own.
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Det føltes ikke som ens egen.
14:13
So what did they do?
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Hvad gjorde de så?
14:15
They took the eggs and the milk out of the powder.
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3667
De tog æg og mælk ud af pulveret.
14:18
(Laughter)
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1353
(Latter)
14:20
Now you had to break the eggs and add them.
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3841
Nu skulle man slå æggene ud og tilføje dem.
14:23
You had to measure the milk and add it, mixing it.
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2970
Man skulle afmåle mælk og tilføje det og blande det.
14:26
Now it was your cake. Now everything was fine.
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Nu var det ens egen kage. Nu var det hele fint.
14:29
(Applause)
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9586
(Bifald)
14:39
Now I think a little bit like the IKEA effect,
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Nu tror jeg det er lidt ligesom IKEA effekten,
14:42
by getting people to work harder,
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1966
ved at få folk til at arbejde hårdere,
14:44
they actually got them to love what they're doing to a higher degree.
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fik de dem faktisk til at elske det de lavede i højere grad.
14:47
So how do we look at this question experimentally?
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3022
Så hvordan ser vi på dette spørgsmål eksperimentelt?
14:50
We asked people to build some origami.
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2439
Vi bad folk om at bygge noget origami.
14:53
We gave them instructions on how to create origami,
280
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2853
Vi gav dem instruktioner på hvordan de skulle skabe origami,
14:56
and we gave them a sheet of paper.
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1686
og vi gav dem et ark papir.
14:57
And these were all novices, and they built something that was really quite ugly --
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4314
Og dette var alle nybegyndere, og de byggede noget der faktisk var temmelig grimt --
15:02
nothing like a frog or a crane.
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2667
ikke noget som en frø eller en trane.
15:04
But then we told them, we said, "Look, this origami really belongs to us.
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3532
Men så fortalte vi dem, vi sagde, "Se, denne origami er faktisk vores.
15:08
You worked for us, but I'll tell you what, we'll sell it to you.
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896275
2817
Du arbejdede for os, men hør engang, vi vil sælge den til dig.
15:11
How much do you want to pay for it?"
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899092
2135
Hvor meget vil du betale for den?"
15:13
And we measured how much they were willing to pay for it.
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2983
Og vi målte hvor meget de var villige til at betale for det.
15:16
And we had two types of people.
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1973
Og vi havde to typer mennesker.
15:18
We had the people who built it,
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1927
Vi havde menneskene der byggede den,
15:20
and we had the people who did not build it and just looked at it as external observers.
290
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4914
og vi havde de mennesker der ikke byggede den og bare kiggede på det udefra som observatører.
15:25
And what we found was that the builders thought
291
913024
2404
Og det vi fandt ud af var at dem der byggede det mente
15:27
that these were beautiful pieces of origami,
292
915428
3514
at dette var smukke origami stykker,
15:30
and they were willing to pay for them five times more
293
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2539
og de var villige til at betale fem gange mere for dem
15:33
than the people who just evaluated them externally.
294
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3158
end de mennesker der bare bedømte dem udefra.
15:36
Now you could say, if you were a builder,
295
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3025
Man kunne sige, at hvis man var bygger,
15:39
do you think that, "Oh, I love this origami, but I know that nobody else would love it?"
296
927664
6439
tænker man at, "Åh, jeg elsker dette origami, men jeg ved at ingen andre ville holde af det?"
15:46
Or do you think, "I love this origami, and everybody else will love it as well?"
297
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5694
Eller tænker man, "Jeg elsker dette origami, og alle andre vil også elske det?"
15:51
Which one of those two is correct?
298
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2469
Hvilken af de to er korrekte?
15:54
Turns out the builders not only loved the origami more,
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3157
Det viser sig at byggerne ikke kun elskede origamien mere,
15:57
they thought that everybody would see the world in their view.
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3498
de mente også at alle ville se verden ud fra deres synspunkt.
16:00
They thought everybody else would love it more as well.
301
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3021
De mente at alle andre også ville holde mere af det.
16:03
In the next version we tried to do the IKEA effect.
302
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3052
I den næste version prøvede vi at skabe IKEA effekten.
16:06
We tried to make it more difficult.
303
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1799
Vi prøvede at gøre det sværere.
16:08
So for some people we gave the same task.
304
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2910
For nogle mennesker gav vi dem den samme opgave.
16:11
For some people we made it harder by hiding the instructions.
305
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4022
For nogle mennesker gjorde vi det sværere ved at gemme instruktionerne.
16:15
At the top of the sheet, we had little diagrams of how do you fold origami.
306
963725
4272
I toppen af arket, havde vi et lille diagram over hvordan man folder origamien.
16:19
For some people we just eliminated that.
307
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2746
Hos nogle mennesker fjernede vi det bare.
16:22
So now this was tougher. What happened?
308
970743
2959
Så nu blev det sværere. Hvad skete der?
16:25
Well in an objective way, the origami now was uglier, it was more difficult.
309
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5907
Jamen objektivt set, blev origamien nu grimmere, det var sværere.
16:31
Now when we looked at the easy origami,
310
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2102
Da vi nu kiggede på den nemme origami,
16:33
we saw the same thing: Builders loved it more, evaluators loved it less.
311
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4392
så vi den samme ting: Byggere der elskede det mere, evaulatorer der elskede det mindre.
16:38
When you looked at the hard instructions,
312
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2161
Når man så på de svære instruktioner,
16:40
the effect was larger.
313
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2930
var effekten større.
16:43
Why? Because now the builders loved it even more.
314
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5078
Hvorfor? Fordi nu elskede byggerne det endnu mere.
16:48
They put all this extra effort into it.
315
996272
2654
De gjorde sig ekstra umage med det.
16:50
And evaluators? They loved it even less.
316
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4098
Og dem der evaluerede? De elskede det endnu mindre.
16:55
Because in reality it was even uglier than the first version.
317
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4405
Fordi det i virkeligheden var endnu grimmere end den første version.
16:59
Of course, this tells you something about how we evaluate things.
318
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5097
Selvfølgelig fortæller dette en noget om hvordan vi evaluerer ting.
17:04
Now think about kids.
319
1012526
2205
Tænk på børn.
17:06
Imagine I asked you, "How much would you sell your kids for?"
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4414
Forestil at jeg spurgte jer, "Hvor meget vil du sælge dine børn for?"
17:11
Your memories and associations and so on.
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2635
Ens minder og ens associationer og så videre.
17:13
Most people would say for a lot, a lot of money --
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3423
De fleste mennesker ville sige for mange, mange penge --
17:17
on good days.
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på gode dage.
17:19
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
17:20
But imagine this was slightly different.
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Men forestil jer at dette var lidt anderledes.
17:22
Imagine if you did not have your kids,
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Forestil jer at I ikke havde jeres børn,
17:23
and one day you went to the park and you met some kids,
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og en dag gik man ned i parken og man mødte nogle børn,
17:26
and they were just like your kids.
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og de var ligesom ens egne børn.
17:28
And you played with them for a few hours.
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Og man legede med dem i et par timer.
17:29
And when you were about to leave, the parents said,
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Og da man skulle til at gå, sagde forældrene,
17:32
"Hey, by the way, just before you leave, if you're interested, they're for sale."
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"Hey, forresten, lige inden du går, hvis du er interesseret, så er de til salg."
17:36
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
17:38
How much would you pay for them now?
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Hvor meget ville man betale for dem nu?
17:41
Most people say not that much.
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De fleste mennesker ville nok sige ikke så meget.
17:43
And this is because our kids are so valuable,
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Og dette er fordi vores børn er så værdifulde,
17:48
not just because of who they are,
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ikke kun på grund af dem de er,
17:50
but because of us, because they are so connected to us
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men på grund af os, fordi de er så forbundet med os
17:54
and because of the time and connection.
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og på grund af tiden og forbindelsen.
17:56
And by the way, if you think that IKEA instructions are not good,
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Og for resten, hvis man mener at IKEA brugsvejledningen ikke er god,
18:00
think about the instructions that come with kids.
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så tænk på brugsvejledningen der følger med børn.
18:02
Those are really tough.
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Den er virkelig svær.
18:03
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
18:04
By the way, these are my kids, which, of course, are wonderful and so on.
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For øvrigt, så er dette mine børn, som, selvfølgelig, er vidunderlige og så videre.
18:08
Which comes to tell you one more thing,
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Hvilket fortæller en endnu en ting,
18:10
which is, much like our builders,
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som er, ligesom byggerne,
18:13
when they look at the creature of their creation,
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når de ser på deres egen skabelse,
18:16
we don't see that other people don't see things our way.
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ser vi ikke at andre mennesker ikke ser det på vores måde.
18:21
Let me say one last comment.
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Lad mig give en sidste kommentar.
18:24
If you think about Adam Smith versus Karl Marx,
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Hvis man tænker på Adam Smith versus Karl Marx,
18:28
Adam Smith had the very important notion of efficiency.
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havde Adam Smith en meget vigtig ide om effektivitet.
18:32
He gave an example of a pin factory.
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Han gav et eksempel på en nåle fabrik.
18:35
He said pins have 12 different steps,
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Han sagde at nåle har 12 forskellige trin,
18:38
and if one person does all 12 steps, production is very low.
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og hvis en person laver alle 12 trin, er produktionen meget lav.
18:42
But if you get one person to do step one
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Men hvis man får en person til at lave trin et
18:45
and one person to do step two and step three and so on,
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og en person til at lave trin to og trin tre og så videre,
18:47
production can increase tremendously.
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kan produktionen stige enormt.
18:50
And indeed, this is a great example and the reason for the Industrial Revolution and efficiency.
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Og bestemt, dette er et fantastisk eksempel og grunden til den industrielle revolution og effektivitet.
18:55
Karl Marx, on the other hand,
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Karl Marx, på den anden side,
18:57
said that the alienation of labor is incredibly important
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sagde at fremmedgørelsen af arbejde er utrolig vigtig
19:01
in how people think about the connection to what they are doing.
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i hvordan mennesker tænker på deres forbindelse med det de gør.
19:04
And if you make all 12 steps, you care about the pin.
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Og hvis man laver alle 12 trin, bekymrer man sig om nålen.
19:08
But if you make one step every time, maybe you don't care as much.
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Men hvis man laver et skridt hver gang, bekymrer man sig måske ikke lige så meget.
19:11
And I think that in the Industrial Revolution,
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Og jeg mener at i den industrielle revolution,
19:14
Adam Smith was more correct than Karl Marx,
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havde Adam Smith mere ret end Karl Marx,
19:18
but the reality is that we've switched
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men virkeligheden er at vi er skiftet
19:20
and now we're in the knowledge economy.
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og nu lever vi i en videns økonomi.
19:23
And you can ask yourself, what happens in a knowledge economy?
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Og man kan spørge sig selv, hvad sker der i en videns økonomi?
19:26
Is efficiency still more important than meaning?
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Er effektivitet stadig mere vigtig end mening?
19:29
I think the answer is no.
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Jeg mener svaret er nej.
19:31
I think that as we move to situations
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Jeg mener, at i takt med at vi flytter til situationer
19:33
in which people have to decide on their own
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2983
hvor mennesker selv skal beslutte
19:36
about how much effort, attention, caring, how connected they feel to it,
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om hvor meget umage, opmærksomhed, omsorg, hvor forbundet de føler sig med det,
19:39
are they thinking about labor on the way to work and in the shower and so on,
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tænker de på arbejdet på vej på arbejde og i brusebadet og så videre,
19:44
all of a sudden Marx has more things to say to us.
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og pludselig har Marx flere ting at fortælle os.
19:48
So when we think about labor, we usually think about motivation and payment as the same thing,
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Når vi tænker på arbejde, tænker vi typisk på motivation og betaling som den samme ting,
19:53
but the reality is that we should probably add all kinds of things to it --
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men virkeligheden er at vi nok burde tilføje alle mulige ting til det --
19:57
meaning, creation, challenges, ownership, identity, pride, etc.
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mening, skabelse, udfordringer, ejeskab, identitet, stolthed, osv.
20:01
And the good news is that if we added all of those components and thought about them,
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Og den gode nyhed er at hvis vi tilføjede alle de komponenter og tænkte over dem,
20:05
how do we create our own meaning, pride, motivation,
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hvordan vi skaber vores egen mening, stolthed, motivation,
20:09
and how do we do it in our workplace and for the employees,
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og hvordan vi gør det på arbejdspladsen og for de ansatte,
20:12
I think we could get people to both be more productive and happier.
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mener jeg vi kunne få folk til at være både mere produktive og mere glade.
20:16
Thank you very much.
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Mange tak.
20:18
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Dan Ariely - Behavioral economistThe dismal science of economics is not as firmly grounded in actual behavior as was once supposed. In "Predictably Irrational," Dan Ariely told us why.
Why you should listen
Dan Ariely is a professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke University and a founding member of the Center for Advanced Hindsight. He is the author of the bestsellers Predictably Irrational, The Upside of Irrationality, and The Honest Truth About Dishonesty -- as well as the TED Book Payoff: The Hidden Logic that Shapes Our Motivations.
Through his research and his (often amusing and unorthodox) experiments, he questions the forces that influence human behavior and the irrational ways in which we often all behave.
Dan Ariely | Speaker | TED.com