TED2010
Michael Sandel: The lost art of democratic debate
Michael Sandel: Den tabte kunstart at debattere demokratisk
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Readability: 4.2
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Demokrati trives ved civil debat, siger Michael Sandel -- men vi er skammeligt ude af øvelse. Han leder en sjov genopfrisker med TEDstere som sparring over en nylig højesteretssag (PGA Tour, Inc vs. Martin) hvis udfald afslører retfærdighedens vigtigste ingrediens.
Michael Sandel - Political philosopher
Michael Sandel teaches political philosophy at Harvard, exploring some of the most hotly contested moral and political issues of our time. Full bio
Michael Sandel teaches political philosophy at Harvard, exploring some of the most hotly contested moral and political issues of our time. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:17
One thing the world needs,
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En ting, verden har brug for,
00:19
one thing this country desperately needs
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en ting, dette land desperat har brug for,
00:21
is a better way
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er en bedre måde
00:23
of conducting our political debates.
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at føre vores politiske debatter.
00:25
We need to rediscover
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Vi er nødt til at genfinde
00:27
the lost art of democratic argument.
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den tabte kunstart at diskutere demokratisk.
00:30
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
00:36
If you think about the arguments we have,
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Hvis man tænker over diskussionerne, vi har,
00:39
most of the time it's shouting matches
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er de det meste af tiden råbekampe
00:41
on cable television,
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på kabel-tv,
00:43
ideological food fights on the floor of Congress.
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ideologiske madkrige på Kongressens gulv.
00:48
I have a suggestion.
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Jeg har et forslag.
00:50
Look at all the arguments we have these days
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Se på alle diskussionerne, vi har i disse dage
00:53
over health care,
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om sundhedspleje,
00:55
over bonuses and bailouts on Wall Street,
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om bonusser og redningspakker på Wall Street,
00:58
over the gap between rich and poor,
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om gabet mellem rig og fattig,
01:01
over affirmative action and same-sex marriage.
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om positiv særbehandling og homoseksuelle ægteskaber.
01:04
Lying just beneath the surface
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Lige under overfladen af disse
01:06
of those arguments,
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diskussioner ligger,
01:09
with passions raging on all sides,
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med lidenskaber rasende fra alle sider,
01:12
are big questions
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er store spørgsmål
01:15
of moral philosophy,
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om moralsk filosofi,
01:17
big questions of justice.
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store spørgsmål om retfærdighed.
01:19
But we too rarely
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Men alt for sjældent
01:21
articulate and defend
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taler vi om og forsvarer
01:24
and argue about
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og diskuterer
01:26
those big moral questions in our politics.
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de store moralske spørgsmål i politik.
01:29
So what I would like to do today
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Så det, jeg gerne vil gøre i dag,
01:32
is have something of a discussion.
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er at have noget af en diskussion.
01:34
First, let me take
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Først, lad mig tage
01:36
a famous philosopher
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en kendt filosof,
01:38
who wrote about those questions
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der skrev om disse spørgsmål
01:40
of justice and morality,
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om retfærdighed og moral,
01:42
give you a very short lecture
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give jer et meget kort foredrag
01:44
on Aristotle of ancient Athens,
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om Aristoteles fra det gamle Athen,
01:47
Aristotle's theory of justice,
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Aristoteles' teori om retfærdighed,
01:49
and then have a discussion here
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og så have en diskussion her
01:52
to see whether Aristotle's ideas
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for at se om Aristoteles' idéer
01:54
actually inform
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rent faktisk har noget at føje
01:56
the way we think and argue
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til den måde, vi tænker og argumenterer
01:58
about questions today.
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om spørgsmål i dag.
02:01
So, are you ready for the lecture?
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Så er I klar til foredraget?
02:05
According to Aristotle,
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Ifølge Aristoteles
02:07
justice means giving people what they deserve.
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betyder retfærdighed at give folk det, de fortjener.
02:13
That's it; that's the lecture.
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Det var det; det var foredraget.
02:15
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
02:18
Now, you may say, well, that's obvious enough.
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Nå, I kunne sige, tja, det er selvindlysende nok.
02:20
The real questions begin
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De rigtige spørgsmål begynder,
02:22
when it comes to arguing about
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når vi kommer til diskussioner om,
02:24
who deserves what and why.
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hvem fortjener hvad og hvorfor.
02:28
Take the example of flutes.
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Tag eksemplet med fløjterne.
02:30
Suppose we're distributing flutes.
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Forestil jer, vi uddeler fløjter.
02:33
Who should get the best ones?
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Hvem bør få de bedste?
02:35
Let's see what people --
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Lad os se, hvad folk --
02:37
What would you say?
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Hvad ville I sige?
02:39
Who should get the best flute?
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Hvem bør få den bedste fløjte?
02:41
You can just call it out.
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I kan bare råbe det ud.
02:43
(Audience: Random.)
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(Publikummer: Tilfældig.)
02:45
Michael Sandel: At random. You would do it by lottery.
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Michael Sandel: Tilfældigt. Du ville gøre det ved lotteri.
02:47
Or by the first person to rush into the hall to get them.
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Eller give til den første, der løber ind i salen for at få dem.
02:51
Who else?
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Hvem ellers?
02:53
(Audience: The best flute players.)
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(Publikummer: De bedste fløjtespillere.)
02:55
MS: The best flute players. (Audience: The worst flute players.)
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MS: De bedste fløjtespiller. (Publikum: De dårligste fløjtespillere.)
02:57
MS: The worst flute players.
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MS: De dårligste fløjtespillere.
03:00
How many say the best flute players?
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Hvor mange siger de bedste fløjtespillere?
03:04
Why?
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Hvorfor?
03:07
Actually, that was Aristotle's answer too.
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Faktisk var det også Aristoteles' svar.
03:10
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
03:12
But here's a harder question.
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Men her er et sværere spørgsmål.
03:14
Why do you think,
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Hvorfor synes I,
03:16
those of you who voted this way,
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dem af jer, der stemte på dette,
03:18
that the best flutes should go to the best flute players?
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at de bedste fløjter bør gives til de bedste fløjtespillere?
03:21
Peter: The greatest benefit to all.
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Peter: Den største gavn for alle.
03:23
MS: The greatest benefit to all.
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MS: Den største gavn for alle.
03:25
We'll hear better music
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Vi hører bedre musik,
03:27
if the best flutes should go to the best flute players.
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hvis de bedste fløjter bliver givet til de bedste fløjtespillere.
03:30
That's Peter? (Audience: Peter.)
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Det var Peter? (Publikummer: Peter.)
03:32
MS: All right.
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MS: Fint nok.
03:35
Well, it's a good reason.
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Altså, det er en god grund.
03:37
We'll all be better off if good music is played
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Vi får det alle bedre, hvis der bliver spillet god musik
03:39
rather than terrible music.
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i stedet for dårlig musik.
03:43
But Peter,
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Men Peter,
03:45
Aristotle doesn't agree with you that that's the reason.
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Aristoteles er ikke enig med dig i, at det er grunden.
03:48
That's all right.
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Det er fint nok.
03:50
Aristotle had a different reason
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Aristoteles havde en anden grund
03:52
for saying the best flutes should go to the best flute players.
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til at sige, de bedste fløjter bør gives til de bedste fløjtespillere.
03:55
He said,
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Han sagde,
03:57
that's what flutes are for --
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det er det, fløjter er til for --
03:59
to be played well.
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at blive spillet godt på.
04:02
He says that to reason about
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Han siger, at for at ræsonnere om
04:04
just distribution of a thing,
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ret fordeling af en ting
04:07
we have to reason about,
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er vi nødt til at ræsonnere om,
04:10
and sometimes argue about,
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og nogle gange diskutere om,
04:12
the purpose of the thing,
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tingens formål
04:14
or the social activity --
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eller den sociale aktivitet --
04:16
in this case, musical performance.
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i dette tilfælde musisk præstation.
04:18
And the point, the essential nature,
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Og pointen med, den essentielle natur
04:20
of musical performance
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af musisk præstation
04:22
is to produce excellent music.
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er at producere fremragende musik.
04:24
It'll be a happy byproduct
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Det er et dejligt biprodukt,
04:26
that we'll all benefit.
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at vi alle har gavn.
04:30
But when we think about justice,
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Men når man tænker over retfærdighed,
04:33
Aristotle says,
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siger Aristoteles,
04:35
what we really need to think about
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det, vi virkelig skal tænke over,
04:37
is the essential nature of the activity in question
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er den omtalte aktivitets essentielle natur
04:41
and the qualities that are worth
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og kvaliteterne, der er værd
04:44
honoring and admiring and recognizing.
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at ære og beundre og anerkende.
04:47
One of the reasons
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En af grundene til,
04:49
that the best flute players should get the best flutes
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at de bedste fløjtespillere bør få de bedste fløjter,
04:51
is that musical performance
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er, at musisk præstation
04:53
is not only to make the rest of us happy,
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ikke kun er til for at gøre resten af os glade,
04:55
but to honor
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men for at ære
04:57
and recognize
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og anerkende
04:59
the excellence
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fortrinligheden
05:01
of the best musicians.
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af de bedste musikere.
05:03
Now, flutes may seem ... the distribution of flutes
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Nå, fløjter kan virke ... fordelingen af fløjter
05:06
may seem a trivial case.
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kan virke som et trivielt tilfælde.
05:09
Let's take a contemporary example
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Lad os tage et samtidigt eksempel
05:11
of the dispute about justice.
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på striden om retfærdighed.
05:14
It had to do with golf.
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Det handlede om golf.
05:16
Casey Martin -- a few years ago,
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Casey Martin -- for et par år siden
05:18
Casey Martin --
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Casey Martin --
05:20
did any of you hear about him?
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hørte nogle af jer om ham?
05:22
He was a very good golfer,
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Han var en meget god golfspiller,
05:24
but he had a disability.
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men han havde et handikap.
05:26
He had a bad leg, a circulatory problem,
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Han havde et dårligt ben, et kredsløbsproblem,
05:29
that made it very painful
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der gjorde det meget smertefuldt
05:31
for him to walk the course.
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for ham at gå banen.
05:34
In fact, it carried risk of injury.
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Faktisk indebar det risiko for skade.
05:38
He asked the PGA,
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Han spurgte PGA,
05:40
the Professional Golfers' Association,
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Professional Golfers' Association,
05:42
for permission to use a golf cart
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om lov til at benytte en golfvogn
05:45
in the PGA tournaments.
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i PGA-turneringerne.
05:47
They said, "No.
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De sagde, "Nej.
05:49
Now that would give you an unfair advantage."
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Det ville nemlig give dig en uretfærdig fordel."
05:51
He sued,
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Han sagsøgte dem,
05:53
and his case went all the way
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og hans sag gik hele vejen
05:55
to the Supreme Court, believe it or not,
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til Højesteret, tro det eller lad være,
05:57
the case over the golf cart,
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sagen om golfvognen,
06:00
because the law says
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fordi loven siger,
06:02
that the disabled
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at handikappede
06:04
must be accommodated,
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skal imødekommes,
06:07
provided the accommodation does not
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så længe hjælpen ikke
06:10
change the essential nature
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ændrer den essentielle natur
06:13
of the activity.
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af aktiviteten.
06:15
He says, "I'm a great golfer.
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Han sagde, "Jeg er en god golfspiller.
06:17
I want to compete.
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Jeg vil konkurrere.
06:19
But I need a golf cart
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Men jeg har brug for en golfvogn
06:21
to get from one hole to the next."
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for at komme fra et hul til det næste."
06:23
Suppose you were
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Forestil jer, I var
06:25
on the Supreme Court.
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med i Højesteretten.
06:27
Suppose you were deciding
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Forestil jer, I besluttede
06:29
the justice of this case.
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retfærdigheden i denne sag.
06:32
How many here would say
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Hvor mange her ville sige,
06:34
that Casey Martin does have a right to use a golf cart?
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at Casey Martin har ret til at benytte en golfvogn?
06:37
And how many say, no, he doesn't?
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Og hvor mange siger, nej, han har ej?
06:41
All right, let's take a poll, show of hands.
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Fint nok, lad os tage en afstemning, ved håndsoprækning.
06:43
How many would rule in favor of Casey Martin?
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Hvor mange ville dømme til fordel for Casey Martin?
06:47
And how many would not? How many would say he doesn't?
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Og hvor mange ville ikke? Hvor mange ville sige, han ikke har ret?
06:50
All right, we have a good division of opinion here.
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Fint nok, vi har en god meningsopdeling her.
06:54
Someone who would not
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En eller anden, der ikke ville
06:56
grant Casey Martin the right to a golf cart,
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bevillige Casey Martin retten til en golfvogn,
06:58
what would be your reason?
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hvad ville være jeres grund?
07:00
Raise your hand, and we'll try to get you a microphone.
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Ræk jeres hånd op, og vi vil forsøge at få fat i en mikrofon til jer.
07:02
What would be your reason?
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Hvad ville være jeres grund?
07:05
(Audience: It'd be an unfair advantage.)
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(Publikummer: Det ville være en uretfærdig fordel.)
07:07
MS: It would be an unfair advantage
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MS: Det ville være en uretfærdig fordel,
07:10
if he gets to ride in a golf cart.
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hvis han får lov at køre i en golfvogn.
07:12
All right, those of you,
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Fint nok, de af jer,
07:14
I imagine most of you who would not give him the golf cart
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jeg forestiller mig de fleste af jer, der ikke ville bevillige ham en golfvogn,
07:17
worry about an unfair advantage.
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bekymrer sig om en uretfærdige fordel.
07:19
What about those of you who say
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Hvad med de af jer, der siger,
07:21
he should be given a golf cart?
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han burde blive bevilliget en golfvogn?
07:23
How would you answer the objection?
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Hvordan vil I svare på indvendingen?
07:25
Yes, all right.
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Ja, fint nok.
07:27
Audience: The cart's not part of the game.
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Publikummer: Vognen er ikke en del af spillet.
07:30
MS: What's your name? (Audience: Charlie.)
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MS: Hvad er dit navn? (Publikummer: Charlie.)
07:33
MS: Charlie says --
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MS: Charlie siger --
07:36
We'll get Charlie a microphone in case someone wants to reply.
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Vi får lige fat i en mikrofon til Charlie i fald nogen vil svare.
07:38
Tell us, Charlie,
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Fortæl os, Charlie,
07:40
why would you say he should be able to use a golf cart?
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hvorfor ville du sige, han burde have lov til at benytte en golfvogn?
07:43
Charlie: The cart's not part of the game.
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Charlie: Vognen er ikke en del af spillet.
07:47
MS: But what about walking from hole to hole?
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MS: Men hvad med at gå fra hul til hul?
07:50
Charlie: It doesn't matter; it's not part of the game.
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Charlie: Det betyder ikke noget; det er ikke en del af spillet.
07:53
MS: Walking the course is not part of the game of golf?
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MS: At gå banen er ikke en del af spillet golf?
07:57
Charlie: Not in my book, it isn't.
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Charlie: Ikke som jeg ser det, er det ikke.
07:59
MS: All right. Stay there, Charlie.
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MS: Fint nok. Bliv der, Charlie.
08:01
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
08:03
Who has an answer for Charlie?
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Hvem har et svar til Charlie?
08:06
All right, who has an answer for Charlie?
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Fint nok, hvem har et svar til Charlie?
08:08
What would you say?
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Hvad ville I sige?
08:10
Audience: The endurance element is a very important part of the game,
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Publikummer: Udholdenhedselementet er en vigtig del af spillet,
08:13
walking all those holes.
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at gå alle hullerne.
08:15
MS: Walking all those holes?
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MS: At gå alle hullerne?
08:17
That's part of the game of golf? (Audience: Absolutely.)
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Er det en del af spillet golf? (Publikummer: Absolut.)
08:20
MS: What's your name? (Audience: Warren.)
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MS: Hvad er dit navn? (Publikummer: Warren.)
08:22
MS: Warren.
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MS: Warren.
08:25
Charlie, what do you say to Warren?
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Charlie, hvad siger du til Warren?
08:29
Charley: I'll stick to my original thesis.
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Chalie: Jeg holder mig til min første tese.
08:31
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
08:37
MS: Warren, are you a golfer?
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MS: Warren, er du golfspiller?
08:39
Warren: I am not a golfer.
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Warren: Jeg er ikke golfspiller.
08:41
Charley: And I am. (MS: Okay.)
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Charlie: Og det er jeg. (MS: Okay)
08:43
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
08:45
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
08:49
You know,
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Altså,
08:51
it's interesting.
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det er interessant.
08:55
In the case, in the lower court,
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I sagen i den lavere ret
08:57
they brought in golfing greats
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tog de store golfspillere ind
09:00
to testify on this very issue.
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for at vidne om dette spørgsmål.
09:04
Is walking the course essential to the game?
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Er det at gå banen essentiel for spillet?
09:07
And they brought in Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer.
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Og de tog Jack Nicklaus og Arnold Palmer ind.
09:10
And what do you suppose they all said?
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Og hvad tror I, de alle sagde?
09:12
Yes. They agreed with Warren.
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Ja. De var enige med Warren.
09:15
They said, yes, walking the course
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De sagde, ja, at gå banen
09:17
is strenuous physical exercise.
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er anstrengende fysisk udfoldelse.
09:19
The fatigue factor is an important part of golf.
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Udmattelsesfaktoren er en vigtig del af golf.
09:22
And so it would change
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Og derfor ville det ændre
09:24
the fundamental nature of the game
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spillets fundamentale natur
09:27
to give him the golf cart.
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at give ham golfvognen.
09:29
Now, notice,
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Læg nu mærke til
09:31
something interesting --
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noget interessant --
09:33
Well, I should tell you about the Supreme Court first.
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Altså, jeg burde fortælle jer om Højesteretten først.
09:35
The Supreme Court
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Højesteretten
09:37
decided.
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besluttede.
09:39
What do you suppose they said?
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Hvad tror I de sagde?
09:42
They said yes,
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De sagde ja,
09:44
that Casey Martin must be provided a golf cart.
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at Casey Martin skulle bevilliges en golfvogn.
09:47
Seven to two, they ruled.
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Syv mod to dømte de.
09:50
What was interesting about their ruling
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Det, der var interessant ved dommen
09:54
and about the discussion we've just had
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og ved diskussionen, vi lige har haft,
09:58
is that the discussion about
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er, at diskussionen om
10:00
the right, the justice, of the matter
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det rette, retfærdigheden, i sagen
10:02
depended on
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afhang af
10:04
figuring out what is
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at finde ud af, hvad er
10:07
the essential nature of golf.
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den essentielle natur af golf.
10:10
And the Supreme Court justices
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Og højesteretsdommerne
10:12
wrestled with that question.
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brødes med det spørgsmål.
10:14
And Justice Stevens, writing for the majority,
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Og Dommer Stevens, stemmende med flertallet,
10:16
said he had read all about the history of golf,
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sagde han havde læst alt om golfs historie,
10:21
and the essential point of the game
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og spillets essentielle pointe
10:24
is to get very small ball from one place
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er at få en meget lille kugle fra et sted
10:26
into a hole
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ned i et hul
10:28
in as few strokes as possible,
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med så få slag som muligt,
10:31
and that walking was not essential, but incidental.
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og at gå ikke var essentielt, men hændeligt.
10:33
Now, there were two dissenters,
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Nå, der var to, der modsatte sig,
10:35
one of whom was Justice Scalia.
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en af dem var Dommer Scalia.
10:40
He wouldn't have granted the cart,
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Han ville ikke have bevilliget vognen,
10:43
and he had a very interesting dissent.
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og han havde en meget interessant indvending.
10:45
It's interesting because
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Den er interessant, fordi
10:47
he rejected the Aristotelian premise
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han afviste det aristoteliske præmis,
10:50
underlying the majority's opinion.
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der lå til bunds for flertallets holdning.
10:52
He said it's not possible
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Han sagde, det ikke er muligt
10:55
to determine the essential nature
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at bestemme den essentielle natur
10:58
of a game like golf.
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af et spil som golf.
11:00
Here's how he put it.
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Her er, hvordan han sagde det.
11:02
"To say that something is essential
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"At sige, noget er essentielt,
11:04
is ordinarily to say that it is necessary
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er normalt at sige, at det er nødvendigt
11:06
to the achievement of a certain object.
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for at kunne opnå et bestemt mål.
11:09
But since it is the very nature of a game
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Men eftersom selve naturen i et spil ligger i
11:11
to have no object except amusement,
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at have intet mål ud over underholdning,
11:15
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
11:19
that is, what distinguishes games
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det er det, der adskiller spil
11:21
from productive activity,
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fra produktive aktiviteter,
11:23
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
11:26
it is quite impossible to say
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er det ret umuligt at sige,
11:28
that any of a game's arbitrary rules
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at nogen af et spils vilkårlige regler
11:31
is essential."
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er essentielle."
11:33
So there you have Justice Scalia
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Så der har I Dommer Scalia,
11:35
taking on the Aristotelian premise
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da han prøver kræfter med det aristoteliske præmis
11:38
of the majority's opinion.
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for flertallets holdning.
11:41
Justice Scalia's opinion
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Dommer Scalias holdning
11:44
is questionable
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er tvivlsom
11:46
for two reasons.
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af to grunde.
11:48
First, no real sports fan would talk that way.
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For det første, ingen ægte sportsfan ville tale sådan.
11:51
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
11:53
If we had thought that the rules
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Hvis vi havde troet, at reglerne
11:55
of the sports we care about
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i sportsgrenene, vi kan lide,
11:57
are merely arbitrary,
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simpelthen er vilkårlige
11:59
rather than designed to call forth
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i stedet for designede til at fremkalde
12:02
the virtues and the excellences
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de dyder og fortræffeligheder,
12:05
that we think are worthy of admiring,
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som vi mener er værdige at beundre,
12:07
we wouldn't care about the outcome of the game.
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ville vi være ligeglade med udfaldet af spillet.
12:10
It's also objectionable
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Den er også kritisabel
12:13
on a second ground.
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af en anden grund.
12:15
On the face of it,
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På overfladen
12:17
it seemed to be -- this debate about the golf cart --
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lod den til at være -- denne debat om golfvognen --
12:20
an argument about fairness,
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en diskussion om retfærdighed,
12:23
what's an unfair advantage.
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hvad der er en uretfærdig fordel.
12:27
But if fairness were the only thing at stake,
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Men hvis retfærdighed var det eneste på spil,
12:30
there would have been an easy and obvious solution.
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ville der have været en let og selvindlysende løsning.
12:33
What would it be? (Audience: Let everyone use the cart.)
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Hvad ville det have været? (Publikum: Lad alle bruge vognen.)
12:35
Let everyone ride in a golf cart
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Lad alle køre i en golfvogn,
12:38
if they want to.
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hvis de har lyst.
12:40
Then the fairness objection goes away.
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Så forsvinder retfærdighedsindvendingen.
12:43
But letting everyone ride in a cart
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Men at lade alle køre i en vogn
12:46
would have been, I suspect,
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ville være, kunne jeg forestille mig,
12:48
more anathema
297
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blevet endnu mere bandlyst
12:50
to the golfing greats
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af de store golfspillere
12:52
and to the PGA,
299
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og af PGA,
12:54
even than making an exception for Casey Martin.
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mere end at lave en undtagelse for Casey Martin.
12:56
Why?
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Hvorfor?
12:58
Because what was at stake
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Fordi det, der var på spil
13:00
in the dispute over the golf cart
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i striden om golfvognen,
13:03
was not only the essential nature of golf,
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var ikke bare golfspillets essentielle natur,
13:06
but, relatedly, the question:
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men relateret dertil spørgsmålet:
13:09
What abilities
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Hvilke evner
13:12
are worthy
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er værd
13:14
of honor and recognition
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at ære og anerkende
13:16
as athletic talents?
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som atletiske talenter?
13:19
Let me put the point
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Lad mig fremsætte pointen
13:21
as delicately as possible:
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så taktfuldt som muligt:
13:24
Golfers are a little sensitive
312
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Golfspillere er en smule følsomme
13:26
about the athletic status of their game.
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over for deres spils atletiske status.
13:29
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
13:35
After all, there's no running or jumping,
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Når alt kommer til alt, er der ingen løb eller spring,
13:38
and the ball stands still.
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og kuglen står stille.
13:41
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
13:44
So if golfing is the kind of game
318
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Så hvis golf er et spil af den type,
13:47
that can be played while riding around in a golf cart,
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der kan blive spillet, imens man kører omkring i en golfvogn,
13:50
it would be hard to confer
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ville det være svært at tildele
13:53
on the golfing greats
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de store golfspillere
13:55
the status that we confer,
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den status, som vi tildeler,
13:57
the honor and recognition
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den ære og anerkendelse,
13:59
that goes to truly great athletes.
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der tildeles virkelig store atleter.
14:03
That illustrates
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Det illustrerer,
14:06
that with golf,
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at med golf
14:09
as with flutes,
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som med fløjter
14:11
it's hard to decide the question
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er det svært at afgøre spørgsmålet
14:14
of what justice requires,
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om, hvad retfærdighed kræver,
14:17
without grappling with the question,
330
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uden at kæmpe med spørgsmålet,
14:19
"What is the essential nature
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"Hvad er den essentielle natur
14:21
of the activity in question,
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af den pågældende aktivitet,
14:23
and what qualities,
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og hvilke kvaliteter,
14:26
what excellences
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hvilke fortrinligheder
14:28
connected with that activity,
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forbundet med den aktivitet,
14:30
are worthy of honor and recognition?"
336
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er værd at ære og anerkende?"
14:34
Let's take a final example
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Lad os tage et sidste eksempel,
14:36
that's prominent in contemporary political debate:
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der er fremtrædende i dagens politiske debat:
14:39
same-sex marriage.
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homoseksuelle ægteskaber.
14:43
There are those who favor state recognition
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Der er dem, der er for statslig anerkendelse
14:46
only of traditional marriage
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af kun traditionelle ægteskaber
14:48
between one man and one woman,
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mellem én mand og én kvinde,
14:51
and there are those who favor state recognition
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og der er dem, der er for statslig anerkendelse
14:53
of same-sex marriage.
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af homoseksuelle ægteskaber.
14:55
How many here
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Hvor mange her
14:57
favor the first policy:
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er for den første politik:
14:59
the state should recognize traditional marriage only?
347
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staten bør kun anerkende traditionelle ægteskaber?
15:04
And how many favor the second, same-sex marriage?
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Og hvor mange er for den anden, homoseksuelle ægteskaber?
15:08
Now, put it this way:
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Tænk så på det på denne måde:
15:11
What ways of thinking
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Hvilke måder at tænke
15:13
about justice and morality
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på retfærdighed og moral
15:15
underlie the arguments we have
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ligger til grunds for argumenterne, vi har
15:17
over marriage?
353
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om ægteskaber?
15:19
The opponents of same-sex marriage say
354
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Modstanderne af homoseksuelle ægteskaber siger,
15:22
that the purpose of marriage,
355
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at formålet med ægteskabet
15:24
fundamentally, is procreation,
356
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fundamentalt set er formering,
15:26
and that's what's worthy of honoring
357
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og at det er det, der er værd at ære
15:28
and recognizing and encouraging.
358
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3000
og anerkende og opmuntre til.
15:31
And the defenders of same-sex marriage say no,
359
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Og forsvarerne af homoseksuelle ægteskaber siger nej,
15:34
procreation is not the only purpose of marriage;
360
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3000
formering er ikke det eneste formål med ægteskabet;
15:38
what about a lifelong, mutual, loving commitment?
361
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hvad med et livslangt, gensidigt, kærligt forhold?
15:41
That's really what marriage is about.
362
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Det er det, ægteskabet virkelig handler om.
15:45
So with flutes, with golf carts,
363
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Så med fløjter, med golfvogne
15:48
and even with a fiercely contested question
364
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3000
og selv med et voldsomt omstridt spørgsmål
15:51
like same-sex marriage,
365
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3000
som homoseksuelle ægteskaber
15:54
Aristotle has a point.
366
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har Aristoteles en pointe.
15:57
Very hard to argue about justice
367
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2000
Meget svært at argumentere omkring retfærdighed
15:59
without first arguing
368
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3000
uden først at argumentere
16:02
about the purpose of social institutions
369
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om formålet med de sociale institutioner
16:05
and about what qualities are worthy
370
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og om hvilke kvaliteter, der er værd
16:07
of honor and recognition.
371
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at ære og anerkende.
16:10
So let's step back from these cases
372
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Så lad os træde tilbage fra disse sager
16:13
and see how they shed light
373
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og se, hvordan de kaster lys
16:16
on the way we might improve, elevate,
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over den måde, vi kunne forbedre, opløfte
16:19
the terms of political discourse
375
964000
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forholdene i den politiske debat
16:22
in the United States,
376
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i USA
16:24
and for that matter, around the world.
377
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3000
og for den sags skyld verden over.
16:27
There is a tendency to think
378
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2000
Der er en tendens til at tro,
16:29
that if we engage too directly
379
974000
3000
at hvis man beskæftiger sig for direkte
16:32
with moral questions in politics,
380
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2000
med moralske spørgsmål i politik,
16:34
that's a recipe for disagreement,
381
979000
2000
er det en opskrift på uenighed
16:36
and for that matter, a recipe for
382
981000
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og for den sags skyld en opskrift på
16:38
intolerance and coercion.
383
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2000
intolerance og tvang.
16:40
So better to shy away from,
384
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2000
Så er det bedre at vige bort fra,
16:42
to ignore,
385
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2000
at ignorere
16:44
the moral and the religious convictions
386
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2000
de moralske og religiøse overbevisninger,
16:46
that people bring to civic life.
387
991000
2000
som folk tager med sig ind i deres officielle liv.
16:48
It seems to me that our discussion
388
993000
3000
Det lader for mig til, at vores diskussion
16:51
reflects the opposite,
389
996000
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viser det modsatte,
16:53
that a better way
390
998000
3000
at en bedre måde
16:56
to mutual respect
391
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2000
at nå gensidig respekt
16:58
is to engage directly
392
1003000
2000
er at beskæftige sig direkte
17:00
with the moral convictions
393
1005000
2000
med moralske overbevisninger,
17:02
citizens bring to public life,
394
1007000
3000
borgere bringer med i det offentlige liv,
17:05
rather than to require
395
1010000
2000
i stedet for at kræve,
17:07
that people leave their deepest moral convictions
396
1012000
3000
at folk efterlader deres dybeste moralske overbevisninger
17:10
outside politics
397
1015000
2000
uden for politik,
17:12
before they enter.
398
1017000
2000
før de går ind.
17:14
That, it seems to me, is a way
399
1019000
2000
Det, lader det til for mig, er en måde
17:16
to begin to restore
400
1021000
2000
at begynde at genskabe
17:18
the art of democratic argument.
401
1023000
2000
den tabte kunstart at debattere demokratisk.
17:20
Thank you very much.
402
1025000
2000
Mange tak.
17:22
(Applause)
403
1027000
3000
(Bifald)
17:25
Thank you.
404
1030000
2000
Tak.
17:27
(Applause)
405
1032000
3000
(Bifald)
17:30
Thank you.
406
1035000
2000
Tak.
17:32
(Applause)
407
1037000
2000
(Bifald)
17:34
Thank you very much.
408
1039000
2000
Mange tak.
17:36
Thanks. Thank you.
409
1041000
2000
Tak. Tak.
17:39
Chris.
410
1044000
2000
Chris.
17:41
Thanks, Chris.
411
1046000
2000
Tak, Chris.
17:44
Chris Anderson: From flutes to golf courses
412
1049000
2000
Chris Anderson: Fra fløjter til golfbaner
17:46
to same-sex marriage --
413
1051000
2000
til homoseksuelle ægteskaber --
17:48
that was a genius link.
414
1053000
2000
det var en genial forbindelse.
17:50
Now look, you're a pioneer of open education.
415
1055000
3000
Altså, du er en pioner inden for åben uddannelse.
17:53
Your lecture series was one of the first to do it big.
416
1058000
2000
Din foredragsserie var en af de første til at blive delt for alvor.
17:55
What's your vision for the next phase of this?
417
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3000
Hvad er din vision for den næste fase af det her?
17:58
MS: Well, I think that it is possible.
418
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3000
MS: Altså, jeg tror, at det er muligt.
18:01
In the classroom, we have arguments
419
1066000
3000
I klasseværeset har vi diskussioner
18:04
on some of the most fiercely held
420
1069000
3000
over nogle af de voldsomste
18:07
moral convictions that students have
421
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2000
moralske overbevisninger, som elever har
18:09
about big public questions.
422
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2000
om store offentlige spørgsmål.
18:11
And I think we can do that in public life more generally.
423
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3000
Og jeg tror, vi kan gøre det i det offentlige liv mere generelt.
18:14
And so my real dream would be
424
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Og derfor ville min virkelige drøm være
18:16
to take the public television series
425
1081000
2000
at tage den offentlige fjernsynsserie,
18:18
that we've created of the course --
426
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2000
som vi har skabt af kurset --
18:20
it's available now, online,
427
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2000
det er tilgængeligt nu, online,
18:22
free for everyone anywhere in the world --
428
1087000
2000
gratis for alle overalt i verden --
18:24
and to see whether we can partner with institutions,
429
1089000
3000
og at se, hvorvidt vi kan samarbejde med institutioner,
18:27
at universities in China, in India,
430
1092000
2000
på universiteter i Kina, i Indien,
18:29
in Africa, around the world,
431
1094000
2000
i Afrika, over hele verden,
18:31
to try to promote
432
1096000
3000
for at prøve at fremme
18:34
civic education
433
1099000
2000
uddannelse af borgere
18:36
and also a richer kind
434
1101000
2000
og også en rigere form
18:38
of democratic debate.
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for demokratisk debat.
18:41
CA: So you picture, at some point,
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CA: Så du ser for dig på et tidspunkt,
18:43
live, in real time,
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live, direkte,
18:45
you could have this kind of conversation, inviting questions,
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at du kunne have denne form for samtale, der inviterer spørgsmål,
18:48
but with people from China and India joining in?
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men med folk fra Kina og Indien, der slutter sig til?
18:51
MS: Right. We did a little bit of it here
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MS: Korrekt. Vi gjorde en smule af det her
18:53
with 1,500 people in Long Beach,
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med 1.500 personer i Long Beach,
18:55
and we do it in a classroom at Harvard
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og vi gør det i et klasseværelse på Harvard
18:58
with about 1,000 students.
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med omkring 1.000 elever.
19:00
Wouldn't it be interesting
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Ville det ikke være interessant
19:02
to take this way
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at tage denne måde
19:05
of thinking and arguing,
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at tænke og argumentere,
19:07
engaging seriously with big moral questions,
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beskæftige sig seriøst med store moralske spørgsmål,
19:10
exploring cultural differences
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udforske kulturelle forskelle
19:12
and connect through a live video hookup,
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og forbinde gennem en live videoforbindelse
19:16
students in Beijing and Mumbai
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elever i Beijing og Mumbai
19:18
and in Cambridge, Massachusetts
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og i Cambridge, Massachusetts
19:20
and create a global classroom.
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og skabe et globalt klasseværelse.
19:22
That's what I would love to do.
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Det er det, jeg ville elske at gøre.
19:24
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
19:28
CA: So, I would imagine
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CA: Så kunne jeg forestille mig,
19:30
that there are a lot of people who would love to join you in that endeavor.
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at der er mange mennesker, der ville elske at slutte sig til dig i den bestræbelse.
19:33
Michael Sandel. Thank you so much. (MS: Thanks so much.)
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Michael Sandel. Mange tak. (MS: Tak.)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michael Sandel - Political philosopherMichael Sandel teaches political philosophy at Harvard, exploring some of the most hotly contested moral and political issues of our time.
Why you should listen
Michael Sandel is one of the best known American public intellectuals. The London Observer calls him "one of the most popular teachers in the world" and indeed his lectures at Harvard draw thousands of students eager to discuss big questions of modern political life: bioethics, torture, rights versus responsibilities, the value we put on things. Sandel's class is a primer on thinking through the hard choices we face as citizens. The course has been turned into a public TV series with companion website and book: Justice: What’s the Right Thing to Do? In his newest book, What Money Can't Buy, he challenges the idea that markets are morally neutral.
"To understand the importance of his purpose," a Guardian reviewer wrote of the book, "you first have to grasp the full extent of the triumph achieved by market thinking in economics, and the extent to which that thinking has spread to other domains. This school sees economics as a discipline that has nothing to do with morality, and is instead the study of incentives, considered in an ethical vacuum. Sandel's book is, in its calm way, an all-out assault on that idea, and on the influential doctrine that the economic approach to "utility maximisation" explains all human behaviour."
Read more about his thinking on markets and morality: "Lunch with Michael Sandel" on FT.com >>
Michael Sandel | Speaker | TED.com