TED2010
Michael Sandel: The lost art of democratic debate
Michael Sandel: Izgubljena umjetnost demokratske debate
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Građanska debata koristi napretku demokracije, kaže Michael Sandel -- no mi smo sramotno izvan forme. Kroz zabavnu lekciju obnavljanja znanja, on potiče prepirku sudionika TEDa oko nedavnog slučaja na Vrhovnom sudu (PGA Tour, Inc. v. Martin) čiji ishod otkriva ključni sastojak pravde.
Michael Sandel - Political philosopher
Michael Sandel teaches political philosophy at Harvard, exploring some of the most hotly contested moral and political issues of our time. Full bio
Michael Sandel teaches political philosophy at Harvard, exploring some of the most hotly contested moral and political issues of our time. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Jedna stvar koju svijet treba,
00:17
One thing the world needs,
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jedna stvar koju ova zemlja
očajnički treba
očajnički treba
00:19
one thing this country desperately needs
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00:21
is a better way
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je bolji način
vođenja političkih debata.
00:23
of conducting our political debates.
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00:25
We need to rediscover
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Trebali bismo ponovo otkriti
00:27
the lost art of democratic argument.
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izgubljenu umjetnost
demokratske rasprave.
demokratske rasprave.
00:30
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
00:36
If you think about the arguments we have,
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Ako razmislite o
raspravama koje vodimo,
raspravama koje vodimo,
00:39
most of the time it's shouting matches
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uglavnom su to natjecanja u nadvikavanju
00:41
on cable television,
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na kabelskoj televiziji,
00:43
ideological food fights on the floor of Congress.
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ideološke bitke hranom u Kongresu.
00:48
I have a suggestion.
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Ja imam prijedlog.
00:50
Look at all the arguments we have these days
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Pogledajte sve diskusije
koje imamo ovih dana
koje imamo ovih dana
00:53
over health care,
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o zdravstvenoj skrbi,
00:55
over bonuses and bailouts on Wall Street,
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o bonusima i sanacijama na Wall Streetu,
00:58
over the gap between rich and poor,
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o jazu između bogatih i siromašnih,
01:01
over affirmative action and same-sex marriage.
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o afirmativnoj akciji
i istospolnim brakovima.
i istospolnim brakovima.
01:04
Lying just beneath the surface
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Tik ispod površine
01:06
of those arguments,
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ovih diskusija,
01:09
with passions raging on all sides,
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s uzburkanim strastima
na svim stranama,
na svim stranama,
01:12
are big questions
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leže velika pitanja
01:15
of moral philosophy,
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filozofije morala,
01:17
big questions of justice.
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velika pitanja pravde.
01:19
But we too rarely
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No, mi isuviše rijetko
01:21
articulate and defend
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artikuliramo i branimo
01:24
and argue about
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i diskutiramo o
01:26
those big moral questions in our politics.
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tim velikim moralnim pitanjima
u našoj politici.
u našoj politici.
01:29
So what I would like to do today
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Pa ono što bih danas želio
01:32
is have something of a discussion.
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jest imati neku vrstu diskusije.
01:34
First, let me take
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Prvo, dopustite mi da uzmem
01:36
a famous philosopher
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čuvenog filozofa
01:38
who wrote about those questions
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koji je pisao o ovim pitanjima
01:40
of justice and morality,
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pravde i morala,
01:42
give you a very short lecture
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da vam održim vrlo kratku lekciju
01:44
on Aristotle of ancient Athens,
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o Aristotelu iz drevne Atene,
01:47
Aristotle's theory of justice,
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Aristotelovoj teoriji pravde,
01:49
and then have a discussion here
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i zatim da ovdje provedemo diskusiju
01:52
to see whether Aristotle's ideas
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kako bismo ustanovili
da li Aristotelove ideje
da li Aristotelove ideje
01:54
actually inform
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uistinu utječu
01:56
the way we think and argue
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na način našeg razmišljanja i diskutiranja
01:58
about questions today.
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o pitanjima današnjice.
02:01
So, are you ready for the lecture?
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Dakle, jeste li spremni za lekciju?
02:05
According to Aristotle,
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Prema Aristotelu,
02:07
justice means giving people what they deserve.
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pravda znači ljudima dati
ono što zaslužuju.
ono što zaslužuju.
02:13
That's it; that's the lecture.
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To je to; to je lekcija.
02:15
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
Vi biste sada mogli reći,
pa to je dovoljno jasno.
pa to je dovoljno jasno.
02:18
Now, you may say, well, that's obvious enough.
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02:20
The real questions begin
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Prava pitanja počinju
02:22
when it comes to arguing about
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kada dođe do rasprave o tome
02:24
who deserves what and why.
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tko zaslužuje što i zašto.
02:28
Take the example of flutes.
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Uzmite primjer flauta.
02:30
Suppose we're distributing flutes.
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Pretpostavimo da dijelimo flaute.
02:33
Who should get the best ones?
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Tko bi trebao dobiti najbolje?
02:35
Let's see what people --
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Da vidimo što ljudi --
02:37
What would you say?
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Što biste vi rekli?
02:39
Who should get the best flute?
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Tko bi trebao dobiti najbolje flaute?
02:41
You can just call it out.
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Možete samo doviknuti.
02:43
(Audience: Random.)
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(Publika: Nasumice.)
Michael Sandel: Nasumice.
Vi bi to proveli lutrijom.
Vi bi to proveli lutrijom.
02:45
Michael Sandel: At random. You would do it by lottery.
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02:47
Or by the first person to rush into the hall to get them.
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Ili prva osoba koja požuri u dvoranu
da ih uzme.
da ih uzme.
02:51
Who else?
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Još netko?
02:53
(Audience: The best flute players.)
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(Publika: Najbolji svirači flauta.)
02:55
MS: The best flute players. (Audience: The worst flute players.)
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MS: Najbolji svirači flauta.
(Publika: Najgori svirači flauta.)
(Publika: Najgori svirači flauta.)
02:57
MS: The worst flute players.
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MS: Najgori svirači flauta.
Koliko vas kaže najbolji svirači flauta?
03:00
How many say the best flute players?
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03:04
Why?
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Zašto?
03:07
Actually, that was Aristotle's answer too.
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Zapravo, to je bio i Aristotelov odgovor.
03:10
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:12
But here's a harder question.
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No, evo težeg pitanja.
03:14
Why do you think,
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Zašto mislite,
03:16
those of you who voted this way,
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oni od vas koji su tako glasali,
03:18
that the best flutes should go to the best flute players?
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da najbolje flaute trebaju dobiti
najbolji svirači flauta?
najbolji svirači flauta?
03:21
Peter: The greatest benefit to all.
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Peter: Najveća korist za sve.
03:23
MS: The greatest benefit to all.
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MS: Najveća korist za sve.
03:25
We'll hear better music
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Slušat ćemo bolju muziku,
03:27
if the best flutes should go to the best flute players.
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ako najbolje flaute odu
najboljim sviračima flauta.
najboljim sviračima flauta.
03:30
That's Peter? (Audience: Peter.)
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To je Peter? (Publika: Peter)
03:32
MS: All right.
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MS: Dobro.
03:35
Well, it's a good reason.
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To je dobar razlog.
03:37
We'll all be better off if good music is played
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Svima će nam biti bolje
ako se svira dobra muzika
ako se svira dobra muzika
03:39
rather than terrible music.
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nego grozna muzika.
03:43
But Peter,
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Ali Peter,
03:45
Aristotle doesn't agree with you that that's the reason.
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Aristotel se ne slaže s vama
da je to razlog.
da je to razlog.
03:48
That's all right.
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To je u redu.
03:50
Aristotle had a different reason
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Aristotel je imao drugi razlog
03:52
for saying the best flutes should go to the best flute players.
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da kaže da najbolje flaute
trebaju ići najboljim sviračima.
trebaju ići najboljim sviračima.
03:55
He said,
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On je rekao,
03:57
that's what flutes are for --
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flaute tome služe --
03:59
to be played well.
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da se na njima dobro svira.
04:02
He says that to reason about
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On kaže da kada prosuđujemo
04:04
just distribution of a thing,
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o pravednoj raspodjeli neke stvari,
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we have to reason about,
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moramo prosuđivati,
04:10
and sometimes argue about,
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i ponekad se prepirati,
04:12
the purpose of the thing,
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o svrsi te stvari
ili društvene aktivnosti --
04:14
or the social activity --
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u ovom slučaju, muzičke izvedbe.
04:16
in this case, musical performance.
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04:18
And the point, the essential nature,
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A poanta, suštinska priroda,
04:20
of musical performance
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muzičke izvedbe
04:22
is to produce excellent music.
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je da proizvede odličnu muziku.
04:24
It'll be a happy byproduct
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To će biti sretan nusproizvod
04:26
that we'll all benefit.
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od kojeg ćemo svi imati koristi.
No, kada razmišljamo o pravdi,
04:30
But when we think about justice,
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04:33
Aristotle says,
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kaže Aristotel,
04:35
what we really need to think about
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ono o čemu zapravo moramo razmišljati
04:37
is the essential nature of the activity in question
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jest suštinska priroda dane aktivnosti
04:41
and the qualities that are worth
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i kvalitete vrijedne poštovanja
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honoring and admiring and recognizing.
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i divljenja i priznavanja.
04:47
One of the reasons
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Jedan od razloga
04:49
that the best flute players should get the best flutes
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zašto najbolje flaute trebaju ići
najboljim sviračima flauta
najboljim sviračima flauta
04:51
is that musical performance
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je taj što muzička izvedba
04:53
is not only to make the rest of us happy,
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ne služi samo da nas ostale usreći
04:55
but to honor
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već da oda počast
04:57
and recognize
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i priznanje
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the excellence
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izvrsnosti
05:01
of the best musicians.
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najboljih muzičara.
05:03
Now, flutes may seem ... the distribution of flutes
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Međutim, flaute mogu izgledati ...
raspodjela flauta
raspodjela flauta
05:06
may seem a trivial case.
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može izgledati kao trivijalan slučaj.
05:09
Let's take a contemporary example
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Uzmimo moderan primjer
05:11
of the dispute about justice.
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prepirke o pravdi.
05:14
It had to do with golf.
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Radi se o golfu.
05:16
Casey Martin -- a few years ago,
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Casey Martin -- prije nekoliko godina,
05:18
Casey Martin --
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Casey Martin --
05:20
did any of you hear about him?
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je li itko od vas čuo za njega?
05:22
He was a very good golfer,
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On je bio jako dobar golfer,
05:24
but he had a disability.
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ali invalid.
05:26
He had a bad leg, a circulatory problem,
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Imao je problem
sa jednom nogom i cirkulacijom
sa jednom nogom i cirkulacijom
05:29
that made it very painful
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što je mu uzrokovalo jaku bol
05:31
for him to walk the course.
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pri hodanju po igralištu.
05:34
In fact, it carried risk of injury.
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U stvari, postojao je i rizik od povrede.
05:38
He asked the PGA,
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Tražio je od PGA,
05:40
the Professional Golfers' Association,
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Udruženja profesionalnih igrača golfa,
05:42
for permission to use a golf cart
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dozvolu za korištenje vozila za golf
05:45
in the PGA tournaments.
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na PGA turnirima.
05:47
They said, "No.
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Oni su rekli, "Ne.
05:49
Now that would give you an unfair advantage."
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To bi vam dalo nepoštenu prednost."
05:51
He sued,
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On ih je tužio
05:53
and his case went all the way
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i njegov je slučaj dospio skroz
05:55
to the Supreme Court, believe it or not,
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do Vrhovnog suda, vjerovali ili ne,
05:57
the case over the golf cart,
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slučaj u vezi vozila za golf,
06:00
because the law says
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zato jer zakon kaže
06:02
that the disabled
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da osobe s invaliditetom
06:04
must be accommodated,
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moraju biti zbrinute,
06:07
provided the accommodation does not
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uz uvijet da ta skrb
06:10
change the essential nature
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ne mijenja suštinsku prirodu
06:13
of the activity.
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aktivnosti.
06:15
He says, "I'm a great golfer.
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On kaže, "Ja sam odličan golfer.
06:17
I want to compete.
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Želim se natjecati.
06:19
But I need a golf cart
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Ali mi je potrebno vozilo za golf
06:21
to get from one hole to the next."
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da bih došao od jedne rupe do druge."
06:23
Suppose you were
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Pretpostavimo da ste vi
06:25
on the Supreme Court.
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član Vrhovnog suda.
06:27
Suppose you were deciding
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Pretpostavimo da odlučujete
06:29
the justice of this case.
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o pravdi u ovom slučaju.
06:32
How many here would say
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Koliko vas ovdje bi reklo
06:34
that Casey Martin does have a right to use a golf cart?
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da Casey Martin ima pravo
koristiti vozilo za golf?
koristiti vozilo za golf?
06:37
And how many say, no, he doesn't?
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A koliko vas kaže, ne, nema pravo?
U redu, hajde da prebrojimo glasove,
podignute ruke.
podignute ruke.
06:41
All right, let's take a poll, show of hands.
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06:43
How many would rule in favor of Casey Martin?
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Koliko bi vas presudilo u korist
Casey Martina?
Casey Martina?
06:47
And how many would not? How many would say he doesn't?
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A koliko ne bi?
Koliko bi vas reklo da nema pravo?
Koliko bi vas reklo da nema pravo?
06:50
All right, we have a good division of opinion here.
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U redu, ovdje imamo
dobru podjelu mišljenja.
dobru podjelu mišljenja.
06:54
Someone who would not
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Netko tko Casey Martinu
06:56
grant Casey Martin the right to a golf cart,
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ne bi odobrio pravo na
vozilo za golf,
vozilo za golf,
06:58
what would be your reason?
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koji bi bio vaš razlog?
07:00
Raise your hand, and we'll try to get you a microphone.
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Dignite ruku i pokušat ćemo
vam dodati mikrofon.
vam dodati mikrofon.
07:02
What would be your reason?
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Koji bi bio vaš razlog?
07:05
(Audience: It'd be an unfair advantage.)
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(Publika: To bi bila nepoštena prednost.)
07:07
MS: It would be an unfair advantage
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MS: To bi bila nepoštena prednost,
07:10
if he gets to ride in a golf cart.
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ako dobije vozilo za golf.
07:12
All right, those of you,
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U redu, oni od vas,
07:14
I imagine most of you who would not give him the golf cart
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pretpostavljam da većinu vas
koji mu ne bi dali vozilo za golf
koji mu ne bi dali vozilo za golf
07:17
worry about an unfair advantage.
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brine nepoštena prednost.
07:19
What about those of you who say
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Što je s vama koji kažete
07:21
he should be given a golf cart?
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da bi mu trebalo dati vozilo za golf?
07:23
How would you answer the objection?
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Kako biste vi odgovorili na prigovor?
07:25
Yes, all right.
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Da, u redu.
07:27
Audience: The cart's not part of the game.
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Publika: Vozilo nije dio igre.
07:30
MS: What's your name? (Audience: Charlie.)
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MS: Kako se vi zovete?
(Publika: Charlie.)
(Publika: Charlie.)
07:33
MS: Charlie says --
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MS: Charlie kaže --
Dodajte Charlie mikrofon za slučaj
da netko želi odgovoriti.
da netko želi odgovoriti.
07:36
We'll get Charlie a microphone in case someone wants to reply.
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07:38
Tell us, Charlie,
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Recite nam, Charlie,
07:40
why would you say he should be able to use a golf cart?
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zašto bi vi rekli da bi mu moralo biti
omogućeno da vozi vozilo za golf?
omogućeno da vozi vozilo za golf?
07:43
Charlie: The cart's not part of the game.
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Charlie: Vozilo nije dio igre.
07:47
MS: But what about walking from hole to hole?
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MS: A što je s hodanjem
od rupe do rupe?
od rupe do rupe?
07:50
Charlie: It doesn't matter; it's not part of the game.
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Charlie: To nije važno; to nije dio igre.
07:53
MS: Walking the course is not part of the game of golf?
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MS: Hodanje po terenu
nije dio igre golfa?
nije dio igre golfa?
07:57
Charlie: Not in my book, it isn't.
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Charlie: Ne, po mom mišljenju.
07:59
MS: All right. Stay there, Charlie.
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MS: U redu. Ostanite tu, Charlie.
08:01
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:03
Who has an answer for Charlie?
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Tko bi odgovorio Charlie?
08:06
All right, who has an answer for Charlie?
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U redu, tko bi odgovorio Charlie?
08:08
What would you say?
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Što biste vi rekli?
08:10
Audience: The endurance element is a very important part of the game,
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Publika: Element izdržljivosti je
vrlo važan dio igre,
vrlo važan dio igre,
08:13
walking all those holes.
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hodanje do svih rupa.
08:15
MS: Walking all those holes?
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MS: Hodanje do svih rupa?
08:17
That's part of the game of golf? (Audience: Absolutely.)
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To je dio igre golfa?
(Publika: Apsolutno.)
(Publika: Apsolutno.)
08:20
MS: What's your name? (Audience: Warren.)
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MS: Kako se vi zovete?
(Publika: Warren)
(Publika: Warren)
08:22
MS: Warren.
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MS: Warren.
08:25
Charlie, what do you say to Warren?
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Charlie, što vi kažete Warrenu?
Charley: Ostala bih kod
svoje prvobitne teze.
svoje prvobitne teze.
08:29
Charley: I'll stick to my original thesis.
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08:31
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:37
MS: Warren, are you a golfer?
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MS: Warren, jeste li vi golfer?
08:39
Warren: I am not a golfer.
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Warren: Nisam golfer.
08:41
Charley: And I am. (MS: Okay.)
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Charley: A ja jesam. (MS: U redu.)
08:43
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:45
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
Znate,
08:49
You know,
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08:51
it's interesting.
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to je zanimljivo.
08:55
In the case, in the lower court,
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U ovom slučaju, na niži sud
08:57
they brought in golfing greats
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su doveli velikane golfa
09:00
to testify on this very issue.
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kako bi svjedočili upravo o ovom pitanju.
09:04
Is walking the course essential to the game?
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Je li hodanje po terenu bitni dio igre?
09:07
And they brought in Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer.
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Doveli su Jacka Niklausa
i Arnolda Palmera.
i Arnolda Palmera.
09:10
And what do you suppose they all said?
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I što mislite da su svi oni rekli?
09:12
Yes. They agreed with Warren.
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Da. Složili su se s Warrenom.
09:15
They said, yes, walking the course
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Rekli su, da hodanje po terenu
09:17
is strenuous physical exercise.
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je naporna fizička vježba.
09:19
The fatigue factor is an important part of golf.
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Faktor umora važan je dio golfa.
09:22
And so it would change
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I zato bi to promijenilo
09:24
the fundamental nature of the game
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fundamentalnu prirodu igre
09:27
to give him the golf cart.
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kada bi se dalo vozilo za golf.
09:29
Now, notice,
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Sada, uočite
09:31
something interesting --
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nešto zanimljivo --
09:33
Well, I should tell you about the Supreme Court first.
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No, prije bih vam trebao reći
o Višem sudu.
o Višem sudu.
09:35
The Supreme Court
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Viši sud
09:37
decided.
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je odlučio.
09:39
What do you suppose they said?
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Što mislite da su rekli?
09:42
They said yes,
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Rekli su, da
09:44
that Casey Martin must be provided a golf cart.
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Casey Martinu treba osigurati
vozilo za golf.
vozilo za golf.
09:47
Seven to two, they ruled.
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Omjer je bio sedam prema dva.
09:50
What was interesting about their ruling
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Ono što je zanimljivo u njihovom suđenju
09:54
and about the discussion we've just had
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i u diskusiji koju smo upravo imali
09:58
is that the discussion about
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jest da je diskusija o
10:00
the right, the justice, of the matter
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pravu, pravdi u ovoj stvari
10:02
depended on
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ovisila o
10:04
figuring out what is
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utvrđivanju što je
10:07
the essential nature of golf.
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suštinska priroda golfa.
10:10
And the Supreme Court justices
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I suci Vrhovnog suda
10:12
wrestled with that question.
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borili su se s tim pitanjem.
10:14
And Justice Stevens, writing for the majority,
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A sudac Stevens, pišući u ime većine,
10:16
said he had read all about the history of golf,
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rekao je da je pročitao
sve o povijesti golfa
sve o povijesti golfa
10:21
and the essential point of the game
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i da je suština igre u tome
10:24
is to get very small ball from one place
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da se vrlo mala lopta dovede
od jednog mjesta
od jednog mjesta
10:26
into a hole
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do rupe
10:28
in as few strokes as possible,
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sa što je moguće manje udaraca,
10:31
and that walking was not essential, but incidental.
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a hodanje nije bilo bitno, već uzgredno.
10:33
Now, there were two dissenters,
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Dvoje ih se nije slagalo,
10:35
one of whom was Justice Scalia.
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jedan od njih bio je sudac Scalia.
On ne bi dozvolio vozilo,
10:40
He wouldn't have granted the cart,
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a imao je vrlo zanimljiv prigovor.
10:43
and he had a very interesting dissent.
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10:45
It's interesting because
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Zanimljiv je stoga
što je odbacio Aristotelovsku premisu
10:47
he rejected the Aristotelian premise
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10:50
underlying the majority's opinion.
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u podlozi mišljenja većine.
10:52
He said it's not possible
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On je rekao da nije moguće
10:55
to determine the essential nature
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odrediti suštinsku prirodu
10:58
of a game like golf.
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igre poput golfa.
11:00
Here's how he put it.
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Ovako je to sročio.
11:02
"To say that something is essential
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"Reći da je nešto suštinsko
11:04
is ordinarily to say that it is necessary
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je općenito isto kao reći da je nužno
11:06
to the achievement of a certain object.
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za postizanje određenog cilja.
11:09
But since it is the very nature of a game
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No budući da je sama priroda igre
11:11
to have no object except amusement,
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da nema cilja osim zabave,
11:15
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
11:19
that is, what distinguishes games
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to jest, ono što igre razlikuje
11:21
from productive activity,
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od proizvodne djelatnosti,
11:23
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
11:26
it is quite impossible to say
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potpuno je nemoguće reći
11:28
that any of a game's arbitrary rules
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da je bilo koje od
proizvoljnih pravila igre
proizvoljnih pravila igre
11:31
is essential."
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suštinsko."
11:33
So there you have Justice Scalia
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Dakle ovdje imate suca Scaliu
11:35
taking on the Aristotelian premise
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koji napada Aristotelovsku premisu
11:38
of the majority's opinion.
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mišljenja većine.
11:41
Justice Scalia's opinion
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Mišljenje suca Scalie
11:44
is questionable
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upitno je
11:46
for two reasons.
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iz dva razloga.
Prvo, niti jedan pravi ljubitelj sporta
ne bi tako govorio.
ne bi tako govorio.
11:48
First, no real sports fan would talk that way.
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11:51
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
11:53
If we had thought that the rules
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Da smo mislili da su pravila
11:55
of the sports we care about
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sporta koji nam je drag
11:57
are merely arbitrary,
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tek proizvoljna,
11:59
rather than designed to call forth
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a ne osmišljena da potaknu
12:02
the virtues and the excellences
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vrline i izvrsnosti
koje smatramo vrijednim divljenja,
12:05
that we think are worthy of admiring,
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mi ne bismo marili o ishodu igre.
12:07
we wouldn't care about the outcome of the game.
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12:10
It's also objectionable
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To je također upitno
12:13
on a second ground.
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na drugoj osnovi.
12:15
On the face of it,
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Na prvi pogled
12:17
it seemed to be -- this debate about the golf cart --
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je izgledalo da je
-- ova debata o vozilu za golf --
-- ova debata o vozilu za golf --
12:20
an argument about fairness,
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rasprava o pravičnosti,
12:23
what's an unfair advantage.
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što je to nepoštena prednost.
12:27
But if fairness were the only thing at stake,
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No, kada bi jedino pravičnost
bila u pitanju,
bila u pitanju,
12:30
there would have been an easy and obvious solution.
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tada bi to bilo lako i očigledno rješenje.
12:33
What would it be? (Audience: Let everyone use the cart.)
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Koje bi to bilo?
(Publika: Svima dozvoliti vozilo.)
(Publika: Svima dozvoliti vozilo.)
12:35
Let everyone ride in a golf cart
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Svima dozvoliti vožnju vozilom za golf
12:38
if they want to.
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ako to žele.
12:40
Then the fairness objection goes away.
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Tada prigovor pravičnosti nestaje.
12:43
But letting everyone ride in a cart
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No, dozvoliti svima vožnju u vozilu
12:46
would have been, I suspect,
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bilo bi, pretpostavljam,
12:48
more anathema
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još veća anatema
12:50
to the golfing greats
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za velikane golfa
12:52
and to the PGA,
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i za PGA,
12:54
even than making an exception for Casey Martin.
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čak od dozvoljavanja
iznimke za Casey Martina.
iznimke za Casey Martina.
12:56
Why?
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Zašto?
12:58
Because what was at stake
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Zato jer ono što je na kocki
13:00
in the dispute over the golf cart
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u prepirci o vozilu za golf
13:03
was not only the essential nature of golf,
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nije samo suštinska priroda golfa,
13:06
but, relatedly, the question:
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već, s tim u vezi, pitanje:
13:09
What abilities
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Koje sposobnosti
13:12
are worthy
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su vrijedne
13:14
of honor and recognition
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poštovanja i priznanja
13:16
as athletic talents?
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kao atletski talenti?
13:19
Let me put the point
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Dozvolite da pojasnim
13:21
as delicately as possible:
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što je moguće delikatnije:
13:24
Golfers are a little sensitive
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Golferi su malo osjetljivi
13:26
about the athletic status of their game.
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na atletski status svoje igre.
13:29
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:35
After all, there's no running or jumping,
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Konačno, tu nema trčanja ni skakanja,
13:38
and the ball stands still.
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a loptica stoji na miru.
13:41
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
13:44
So if golfing is the kind of game
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Zato, da je golf vrsta igre
13:47
that can be played while riding around in a golf cart,
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koja se može igrati vozeći se naokolo
vozilom za golf,
vozilom za golf,
13:50
it would be hard to confer
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bilo bi teško
13:53
on the golfing greats
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velikanima golfa pridjeljivati
13:55
the status that we confer,
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status koji im pridjeljujemo,
13:57
the honor and recognition
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poštovanje i priznanje
13:59
that goes to truly great athletes.
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koje pripada uistinu velikim atletičarima.
14:03
That illustrates
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Ovo ilustrira
14:06
that with golf,
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da je u vezi golfa,
14:09
as with flutes,
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kao i flauta,
14:11
it's hard to decide the question
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teško odgovoriti na pitanje
14:14
of what justice requires,
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što zahtijeva pravda,
14:17
without grappling with the question,
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bez hvatanja u koštac s pitanjem,
14:19
"What is the essential nature
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"Koja je suštinska priroda
14:21
of the activity in question,
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dane aktivnosti
14:23
and what qualities,
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i koje su kvalitete,
14:26
what excellences
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koje izvrsnosti,
14:28
connected with that activity,
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povezane s tom aktivnosti,
14:30
are worthy of honor and recognition?"
336
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vrijedne poštovanja i priznanja?"
14:34
Let's take a final example
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Uzmimo posljednji primjer
14:36
that's prominent in contemporary political debate:
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istaknut u suvremenoj političkoj debati:
14:39
same-sex marriage.
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istospolni brak.
14:43
There are those who favor state recognition
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Postoje oni koji zagovaraju
priznavanje od strane države
priznavanje od strane države
14:46
only of traditional marriage
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samo tradicionalnog braka
14:48
between one man and one woman,
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između jednog muškarca i jedne žene,
14:51
and there are those who favor state recognition
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a postoje oni koji zagovaraju priznavanje
14:53
of same-sex marriage.
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istospolnog braka.
14:55
How many here
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Koliko vas ovdje
14:57
favor the first policy:
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zagovara prvo načelo:
14:59
the state should recognize traditional marriage only?
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država bi trebala priznavati
samo tradicionalni brak?
samo tradicionalni brak?
15:04
And how many favor the second, same-sex marriage?
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A koliko vas zagovara drugo,
istospolni brak?
istospolni brak?
15:08
Now, put it this way:
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Recimo to ovako:
15:11
What ways of thinking
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Koji načini razmišljanja
15:13
about justice and morality
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o pravdi i moralnosti
15:15
underlie the arguments we have
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leže u podlozi naših rasprava
15:17
over marriage?
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o braku?
15:19
The opponents of same-sex marriage say
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Protivnici istospolnog braka kažu
15:22
that the purpose of marriage,
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da je svrha braka
15:24
fundamentally, is procreation,
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u osnovi, rađanje,
15:26
and that's what's worthy of honoring
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i to je ono što je vrijedno poštovanja
15:28
and recognizing and encouraging.
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i priznavanja i poticanja.
15:31
And the defenders of same-sex marriage say no,
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A branitelji istospolnog braka kažu ne,
15:34
procreation is not the only purpose of marriage;
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rađanje nije jedina svrha braka;
15:38
what about a lifelong, mutual, loving commitment?
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što je s cijeloživotnim, međusobnim,
ljubavnim zavjetom?
ljubavnim zavjetom?
15:41
That's really what marriage is about.
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To je ustvari bit braka.
15:45
So with flutes, with golf carts,
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Dakle sa flautama, sa vozilima za golf,
15:48
and even with a fiercely contested question
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a čak i sa žestoko osporavanim pitanjem
15:51
like same-sex marriage,
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poput istospolnog braka,
15:54
Aristotle has a point.
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Aristotel je u pravu.
15:57
Very hard to argue about justice
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Vrlo je teško raspravljati o pravdi
15:59
without first arguing
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bez prethodnog raspravljanja
16:02
about the purpose of social institutions
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o svrsi društvenih institucija
16:05
and about what qualities are worthy
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i o kvalitetama vrijednim
16:07
of honor and recognition.
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poštovanja i priznanja.
16:10
So let's step back from these cases
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Odmaknimo se sada od tih slučajeva
16:13
and see how they shed light
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i pogledajmo kako oni pojašnjavaju
16:16
on the way we might improve, elevate,
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način na koji bismo mogli poboljšati,
16:19
the terms of political discourse
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unaprijediti uvjete političke debate
16:22
in the United States,
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u Sjedinjenim državama
16:24
and for that matter, around the world.
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i s tim u vezi, diljem svijeta.
16:27
There is a tendency to think
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Postoji tendencija da se smatra
16:29
that if we engage too directly
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da ako se isuviše direktno bavimo
16:32
with moral questions in politics,
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moralnim pitanjima u politici,
16:34
that's a recipe for disagreement,
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to je recept za nesuglasice
16:36
and for that matter, a recipe for
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i s tim u vezi, recept za
16:38
intolerance and coercion.
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netoleranciju i prisilu.
16:40
So better to shy away from,
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Zato je bolje izbjegavati,
16:42
to ignore,
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ignorirati
16:44
the moral and the religious convictions
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moralna i religijska uvjerenja
16:46
that people bring to civic life.
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koje ljudi donose u politički život.
16:48
It seems to me that our discussion
388
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Meni se čini da naša diskusija
16:51
reflects the opposite,
389
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pokazuje suprotno,
16:53
that a better way
390
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da je bolji način
16:56
to mutual respect
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za međusobno poštovanje
16:58
is to engage directly
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da se direktno bavimo
17:00
with the moral convictions
393
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moralnim uvjerenjima
17:02
citizens bring to public life,
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koje građani donose u javni život,
17:05
rather than to require
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radije nego da zahtijevamo
17:07
that people leave their deepest moral convictions
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da ljudi ostave svoja
najdublja moralna uvjerenja
najdublja moralna uvjerenja
17:10
outside politics
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izvan politike
17:12
before they enter.
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prije no što u nju ulaze.
17:14
That, it seems to me, is a way
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Meni se čini da je to način
17:16
to begin to restore
400
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da se započne obnavljanje
17:18
the art of democratic argument.
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umjetnosti demokratske rasprave.
17:20
Thank you very much.
402
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Puno vam hvala.
17:22
(Applause)
403
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(Pljesak)
17:25
Thank you.
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Hvala.
17:27
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
17:30
Thank you.
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Hvala.
17:32
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
17:34
Thank you very much.
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Puno vam hvala.
17:36
Thanks. Thank you.
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Hvala. Hvala vam.
17:39
Chris.
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Chris.
17:41
Thanks, Chris.
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Hvala, Chris.
17:44
Chris Anderson: From flutes to golf courses
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Chris Anderson: Od flauta do golf terena
17:46
to same-sex marriage --
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do istospolnog braka --
17:48
that was a genius link.
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to je bila genijalna veza.
17:50
Now look, you're a pioneer of open education.
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Vidite, vi ste pionir
otvorenog obrazovanja.
otvorenog obrazovanja.
Serija vaših predavanja
bila je prva koja je to radila kako treba.
bila je prva koja je to radila kako treba.
17:53
Your lecture series was one of the first to do it big.
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17:55
What's your vision for the next phase of this?
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Koja je vaša vizija za
sljedeću fazu ovoga?
sljedeću fazu ovoga?
17:58
MS: Well, I think that it is possible.
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MS: Pa, mislim da je to moguće.
18:01
In the classroom, we have arguments
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U predavaonici mi diskutiramo
18:04
on some of the most fiercely held
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o nekim od najdubljih
moralnih uvjerenja koja studenti imaju
18:07
moral convictions that students have
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18:09
about big public questions.
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o značajnim javnim pitanjima.
18:11
And I think we can do that in public life more generally.
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I ja mislim da to u javnom životu
općenito možemo činiti češće.
općenito možemo činiti češće.
18:14
And so my real dream would be
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I zato bi moj pravi san bio
18:16
to take the public television series
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da uzmemo javnu televizijsku seriju
18:18
that we've created of the course --
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koju samo napravili od predavanja --
18:20
it's available now, online,
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ona je sada dostupna online
18:22
free for everyone anywhere in the world --
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besplatno za svakog
bilo gdje na svijetu --
bilo gdje na svijetu --
18:24
and to see whether we can partner with institutions,
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i da se pokušamo povezati
sa institucijama
sa institucijama
18:27
at universities in China, in India,
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na sveučilištima u Kini, Indiji,
18:29
in Africa, around the world,
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u Africi, diljem svijeta,
18:31
to try to promote
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da bismo pokušali promovirati
18:34
civic education
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građansko obrazovanje
18:36
and also a richer kind
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i također bogatiju vrstu
18:38
of democratic debate.
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demokratske debate.
CA: Dakle vi zamišljate da biste
u nekom času
u nekom času
18:41
CA: So you picture, at some point,
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18:43
live, in real time,
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uživo, u realnom vremenu
18:45
you could have this kind of conversation, inviting questions,
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mogli imati ovu vrstu konverzacije,
potičući pitanja,
potičući pitanja,
18:48
but with people from China and India joining in?
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ali da vam se pridruže
i ljudi iz Kine i Indije?
i ljudi iz Kine i Indije?
18:51
MS: Right. We did a little bit of it here
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MS: Točno. Mi smo to malo radili ovdje
18:53
with 1,500 people in Long Beach,
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s 1.500 ljudi u Long Beachu,
18:55
and we do it in a classroom at Harvard
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a radili smo u predavaonici na Harvardu
18:58
with about 1,000 students.
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s oko 1.000 studenata.
19:00
Wouldn't it be interesting
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Ne bi li bilo zanimljivo
19:02
to take this way
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uzeti taj način
19:05
of thinking and arguing,
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razmišljanja i raspravljanja,
19:07
engaging seriously with big moral questions,
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ozbiljno se baveći
velikim moralnim pitanjima,
velikim moralnim pitanjima,
19:10
exploring cultural differences
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istražujući kulturalne razlike
19:12
and connect through a live video hookup,
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i povezati uživo preko video priključka
studente u Beijingu i Mumbaiu
19:16
students in Beijing and Mumbai
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19:18
and in Cambridge, Massachusetts
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i u Cambridgeu u Massachusettsu
19:20
and create a global classroom.
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i stvoriti globalnu predavaonicu.
19:22
That's what I would love to do.
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To je ono što bih volio raditi.
19:24
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
CA: Pa, pretpostavljam
19:28
CA: So, I would imagine
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19:30
that there are a lot of people who would love to join you in that endeavor.
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da ima mnogo ljudi koji bi vam se
rado pridružili u tom pothvatu.
rado pridružili u tom pothvatu.
19:33
Michael Sandel. Thank you so much. (MS: Thanks so much.)
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Michael Sandel. Puno vam hvala.
(MS: Puno hvala.)
(MS: Puno hvala.)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michael Sandel - Political philosopherMichael Sandel teaches political philosophy at Harvard, exploring some of the most hotly contested moral and political issues of our time.
Why you should listen
Michael Sandel is one of the best known American public intellectuals. The London Observer calls him "one of the most popular teachers in the world" and indeed his lectures at Harvard draw thousands of students eager to discuss big questions of modern political life: bioethics, torture, rights versus responsibilities, the value we put on things. Sandel's class is a primer on thinking through the hard choices we face as citizens. The course has been turned into a public TV series with companion website and book: Justice: What’s the Right Thing to Do? In his newest book, What Money Can't Buy, he challenges the idea that markets are morally neutral.
"To understand the importance of his purpose," a Guardian reviewer wrote of the book, "you first have to grasp the full extent of the triumph achieved by market thinking in economics, and the extent to which that thinking has spread to other domains. This school sees economics as a discipline that has nothing to do with morality, and is instead the study of incentives, considered in an ethical vacuum. Sandel's book is, in its calm way, an all-out assault on that idea, and on the influential doctrine that the economic approach to "utility maximisation" explains all human behaviour."
Read more about his thinking on markets and morality: "Lunch with Michael Sandel" on FT.com >>
Michael Sandel | Speaker | TED.com