TED2004
Malcolm Gladwell: Choice, happiness and spaghetti sauce
말콤 글래드웰, 스파게티 소스에 관하여
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<티핑 포인트>의 저자 말콤 글래드웰은 완벽한 스파게티 소스를 찾기 위한 식품업계의 고군분투에 얽힌 재미있는 일화를 들려줍니다. 실은 선택과 행복의 본질을 담은 이야기에요.
Malcolm Gladwell - Writer
Detective of fads and emerging subcultures, chronicler of jobs-you-never-knew-existed, Malcolm Gladwell's work is toppling the popular understanding of bias, crime, food, marketing, race, consumers and intelligence. Full bio
Detective of fads and emerging subcultures, chronicler of jobs-you-never-knew-existed, Malcolm Gladwell's work is toppling the popular understanding of bias, crime, food, marketing, race, consumers and intelligence. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
저는 제 새 책에 대한 이야기를 해야 하는 줄 알았어요.
00:25
I think I was supposed
to talk about my new book,
to talk about my new book,
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00:27
which is called "Blink,"
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순간 판단력과 첫인상에 대한 "블링크"라는 책입니다.
00:29
and it's about snap judgments
and first impressions.
and first impressions.
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00:32
And it comes out in January,
and I hope you all buy it in triplicate.
and I hope you all buy it in triplicate.
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1월에 출간되니까, 여러분이 3권씩 사시면 좋겠습니다.
00:36
(Laughter)
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하지만 이런 생각을 하다가
00:38
But I was thinking about this,
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00:39
and I realized that although
my new book makes me happy,
my new book makes me happy,
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제 책이 저를 행복하게 하고,
저희 어머니는 행복하게 하긴 해도
00:44
and I think would make my mother happy,
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00:46
it's not really about happiness.
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행복에 대한 책은 아니라는 걸 깨달았습니다.
그래서 저 말고 다른 인물에 대해 이야기하려고 합니다.
00:49
So I decided instead,
I would talk about someone
I would talk about someone
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00:52
who I think has done as much
to make Americans happy
to make Americans happy
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제 생각에 지난 20년 동안 이 분 만큼
미국인을 행복하게 해준 사람도 드물 거에요.
00:56
as perhaps anyone over the last 20 years,
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00:59
a man who is a great
personal hero of mine:
personal hero of mine:
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제 개인적인 영웅인
01:02
someone by the name of Howard Moskowitz,
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하워드 모스코위츠 씨입니다.
01:05
who is most famous
for reinventing spaghetti sauce.
for reinventing spaghetti sauce.
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스파게티 소스를 재발견한 분이에요.
하워드는 이만한 키에, 통통했고,
01:10
Howard's about this high, and he's round,
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01:14
and he's in his 60s,
and he has big huge glasses
and he has big huge glasses
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커다란 안경을 쓴 60대의 남자였습니다.
얇은 회색 머리칼에, 굉장한 활기가 넘치는 사람이에요.
01:19
and thinning gray hair,
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01:21
and he has a kind of wonderful
exuberance and vitality,
exuberance and vitality,
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앵무새를 키웠고, 오페라를 사랑했으며,
01:25
and he has a parrot,
and he loves the opera,
and he loves the opera,
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01:28
and he's a great aficionado
of medieval history.
of medieval history.
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중세식 투우의 광팬이었습니다.
직업은 정신물리학자였습니다.
01:33
And by profession, he's a psychophysicist.
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01:35
Now, I should tell you that I have no idea
what psychophysics is,
what psychophysics is,
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정신물리학이 무엇인지 사실 저도 전혀 모릅니다.
정신물리학 박사 학위가 있는 여자분과
01:40
although at some point in my life,
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01:42
I dated a girl for two years
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01:43
who was getting
her doctorate in psychophysics.
her doctorate in psychophysics.
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2년이나 데이트를 했는데도 말입니다.
01:45
Which should tell you something
about that relationship.
about that relationship.
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어떤 수준의 관계였는지는 알만하시겠죠. (웃음)
01:49
(Laughter)
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01:51
As far as I know, psychophysics
is about measuring things.
is about measuring things.
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제가 알기론, 정신물리학이 대상을 측정하는 학문이고,
01:54
And Howard is very interested
in measuring things.
in measuring things.
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하워드도 측정하는데 아주 관심이 많았어요.
하버드 대학 박사 출신이 그는
01:57
And he graduated
with his doctorate from Harvard,
with his doctorate from Harvard,
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뉴욕 화이트 플레인즈 지역에 작은 컨설팅 회사를 세웁니다.
01:59
and he set up a little consulting shop
in White Plains, New York.
in White Plains, New York.
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수십 년 전으로 거슬러 올라가 70년대 초반,
02:03
And one of his first clients was Pepsi.
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02:06
This is many years ago,
back in the early 70s.
back in the early 70s.
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그의 초창기 고객사 중 하나가 펩시였습니다.
펩시는 하워드에게 찾아와 이렇게 물었습니다.
02:10
And Pepsi came to Howard and they said,
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"아스파탐"이라는 새로운 물질이 있는데
02:12
"You know, there's this new
thing called aspartame,
thing called aspartame,
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이걸로 다이어트 펩시를 만들까 합니다.
02:14
and we would like to make Diet Pepsi.
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02:16
We'd like you to figure out
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아스파탐을 얼마나 넣어야 할지 고민 중인데
02:18
how much aspartame we should put
in each can of Diet Pepsi
in each can of Diet Pepsi
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어떻게 하면 최적의 비율을 찾을 수 있을까요?"
02:22
in order to have the perfect drink."
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02:24
Now that sounds like an incredibly
straightforward question to answer,
straightforward question to answer,
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굉장히 직설적인 질문이죠. 하워드도 그렇게 생각했습니다.
02:28
and that's what Howard thought.
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펩시는 아예 이렇게 물었어요.
02:30
Because Pepsi told him,
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"8~12% 사이에서 고민하고 있습니다.
02:31
"We're working with a band
between eight and 12 percent.
between eight and 12 percent.
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8% 이하는 싱겁고,
02:34
Anything below eight percent
sweetness is not sweet enough;
sweetness is not sweet enough;
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12% 이상은 너무 달기 때문이죠.
02:37
anything above 12 percent
sweetness is too sweet.
sweetness is too sweet.
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02:40
We want to know: what's the sweet
spot between 8 and 12?"
spot between 8 and 12?"
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8~12% 사이에 적정한 당도는 얼마일까요?"
02:44
Now, if I gave you this problem to do,
you would all say, it's very simple.
you would all say, it's very simple.
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만약 이걸 제가 지금 여러분께 묻는다면, 모두들 간단하다고 대답하실 겁니다.
펩시를 위해 대규모 실험을 기획하면 되겠죠.
02:48
What we do is you make up
a big experimental batch of Pepsi,
a big experimental batch of Pepsi,
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02:51
at every degree of sweetness --
eight percent, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3,
eight percent, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3,
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아스타팜의 함량을 8%부터, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3~12% 등급으로 세분화하여
수천 명이 맛보게 한 후, 그들의 선호도를 조사하여
02:56
all the way up to 12 --
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02:57
and we try this out
with thousands of people,
with thousands of people,
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그래프로 나타냅니다.
03:00
and we plot the results on a curve,
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03:02
and we take the most popular
concentration, right?
concentration, right?
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그 중 가장 인기있는 함량을 고르는 거에요. 정말 간단합니다.
03:05
Really simple.
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03:06
Howard does the experiment,
and he gets the data back,
and he gets the data back,
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하워드도 실험을 진행하고, 그 결과를 그래프로 그려봤지만,
03:09
and he plots it on a curve,
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종형곡선(Bell Curve)이 아니라는 것이 문제였습니다.
03:10
and all of a sudden he realizes
it's not a nice bell curve.
it's not a nice bell curve.
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03:13
In fact, the data doesn't make any sense.
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결과는 일관성이 없었습니다.
뒤죽박죽이었죠.
03:15
It's a mess. It's all over the place.
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03:17
Now, most people in that business,
in the world of testing food and such,
in the world of testing food and such,
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대부분의 식품업계 관계자들도
03:22
are not dismayed
when the data comes back a mess.
when the data comes back a mess.
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이 데이터를 보고 당황했습니다.
03:25
They think, "Well, you know,
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적정한 콜라 맛을 알아내는 것은 어렵다고 결론을 내렸습니다.
03:26
figuring out what people think
about cola's not that easy."
about cola's not that easy."
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03:29
"You know, maybe we made an error
somewhere along the way."
somewhere along the way."
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실험 진행 중에 오류가 발생했을 수도 있고요.
그래서 그들은 직업적 경험에 미루어
03:32
"You know, let's just
make an educated guess,"
make an educated guess,"
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03:34
and they simply point
and they go for 10 percent,
and they go for 10 percent,
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중간 10%를 선택하길 원했습니다.
03:37
right in the middle.
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03:38
Howard is not so easily placated.
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하지만 하워드는 그렇게 호락호락 넘어갈 수 없었습니다.
03:40
Howard is a man of a certain degree
of intellectual standards.
of intellectual standards.
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그는 일정한 지적 기준을 가진 사람이니까요.
03:43
And this was not good enough for him,
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이 결과에 만족할 수 없었습니다.
03:45
and this question bedeviled him for years.
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그래서 이 의문은 그를 수년 동안 괴롭히기 시작합니다.
철저하게 고민했습니다. 도대체 뭐가 잘못된 걸까?
03:48
And he would think it through
and say, "What was wrong?
and say, "What was wrong?
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03:50
Why could we not make sense
of this experiment with Diet Pepsi?"
of this experiment with Diet Pepsi?"
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다이어트 펩시 실험에서 이해할 수 없는 결과가 나온 이유가 뭐지?
그러던 어느 날 화이트 플레인즈의 한 식당에서
03:55
And one day, he was sitting
in a diner in White Plains,
in a diner in White Plains,
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03:57
about to go trying to dream up
some work for Nescafé.
some work for Nescafé.
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네스카페가 의뢰한 일을 생각하고 있던
하워드에게 번뜩 해답이 떠올랐습니다.
04:01
And suddenly, like a bolt of lightning,
the answer came to him.
the answer came to him.
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다이어트 펩시 실험의 문제는 바로
04:04
And that is, that when they analyzed
the Diet Pepsi data,
the Diet Pepsi data,
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04:07
they were asking the wrong question.
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잘못된 질문에 있었습니다.
04:09
They were looking for the perfect Pepsi,
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그들은 하나의 완벽한 펩시를 찾았었는데,
04:11
and they should have been
looking for the perfect Pepsis.
looking for the perfect Pepsis.
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완벽한 펩시 여러 개를 찾았어야 하는 거였어요! 정말로요.
04:15
Trust me.
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04:16
This was an enormous revelation.
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이것은 엄청난 발견이었습니다.
04:18
This was one of the most brilliant
breakthroughs in all of food science.
breakthroughs in all of food science.
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식품과학계가 한 단계 도약한 순간이었지요.
하워드는 즉시 사무실을 박차고 나왔습니다.
04:22
Howard immediately went on the road,
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그리고 나라 곳곳의 컨퍼런스마다 달려가서
04:24
and he would go to conferences
around the country,
around the country,
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이렇게 외치고 싶었습니다.
04:26
and he would stand up and say,
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"당신들은 하나의 완벽한 펩시를 찾으려 했죠. 틀렸습니다.
04:28
"You had been looking
for the perfect Pepsi.
for the perfect Pepsi.
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04:30
You're wrong.
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04:31
You should be looking
for the perfect Pepsis."
for the perfect Pepsis."
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완벽한 펩시는 여러 개일수도 있어요!"
04:34
And people would look at him
blankly and say,
blankly and say,
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관중은 멍하니 이렇게 묻겠죠.
"뭐라는 겁니까? 미친 건가요?
04:37
"What are you talking about? Craziness."
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자, 다음 분!"
04:39
And they would say, "Move! Next!"
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04:40
Tried to get business,
nobody would hire him --
nobody would hire him --
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그는 이 생각에 사로잡혀 일을 구하려 했지만, 아무도 써주지 않았습니다.
04:43
he was obsessed, though,
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하지만 그는 좌절하지 않고 자신의 발견을 끊임없이 주장하고 다녔습니다.
04:44
and he talked about it
and talked about it.
and talked about it.
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04:46
Howard loves the Yiddish expression
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하워드는 이 유태 속담을 좋아했어요.
"고추냉이에 붙어사는 벌레에겐, 고추냉이가 세상의 전부다."
04:48
"To a worm in horseradish,
the world is horseradish."
the world is horseradish."
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이게 하워드의 고추냉이였습니다. (웃음) 그 생각이 떨어지지 않았거든요!
04:51
This was his horseradish.
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04:52
(Laughter)
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04:54
He was obsessed with it!
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04:56
And finally, he had a breakthrough.
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마침내 그와 이야기가 통한 것은 블래식 피클이란 회사였습니다.
04:59
Vlasic Pickles came to him,
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05:01
and they said, "Doctor Moskowitz,
we want to make the perfect pickle."
we want to make the perfect pickle."
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그들이 물었죠 "모스코위츠 씨, 모스코위츠 박사님--
우리는 완벽한 피클을 만들고 싶습니다."
05:06
And he said,
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그가 대답했습니다. "완벽한 피클은 하나가 아닙니다. 여러 개에요.
05:07
"There is no perfect pickle;
there are only perfect pickles."
there are only perfect pickles."
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지금 생산되고 있는 피클의 맛을 개선하는 것만으로는 부족합니다.
05:11
And he came back to them and he said,
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05:12
"You don't just need
to improve your regular;
to improve your regular;
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새로운 '톡 쏘는 맛 피클'을 만들어야 해요."
05:15
you need to create zesty."
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05:16
And that's where we got zesty pickles.
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이것이 톡 쏘는 맛 피클의 유래입니다.
05:19
Then the next person came to him:
Campbell's Soup.
Campbell's Soup.
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다음 고객은 캠벨 수프 회사였습니다.
05:21
And this was even more important.
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캠벨 수프 회사는 훨씬 더 중요한 고객이었습니다.
사실, 지금의 그의 명성도 이 때 만들어졌으니까요.
05:23
In fact, Campbell's Soup
is where Howard made his reputation.
is where Howard made his reputation.
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05:27
Campbell's made Prego,
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80년대 초반, 캠벨 사는 라구에 대항할 프레고를 만들었습니다.
05:28
and Prego, in the early 80s,
was struggling next to Ragù,
was struggling next to Ragù,
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05:32
which was the dominant
spaghetti sauce of the 70s and 80s.
spaghetti sauce of the 70s and 80s.
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라구는 70~80년대를 주름잡은 스파게티 소스 브랜드였습니다.
여러분이 이 문제에 관심이 있으실지
05:36
In the industry -- I don't
know whether you care about this,
know whether you care about this,
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잘 모르겠습니다.
05:39
or how much time I have to go into this.
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어쨌든 여담이지만, 품질로만 따지자면
05:41
But it was, technically speaking
-- this is an aside --
-- this is an aside --
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프레고가 라구보다 좋은 토마토 소스입니다.
05:43
Prego is a better tomato sauce than Ragù.
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사용한 토마토 반죽도 훨씬 좋고, 양념의 혼합률도 뛰어나서,
05:45
The quality of the tomato paste
is much better;
is much better;
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05:48
the spice mix is far superior;
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파스타와 훨씬 잘 어울립니다.
05:50
it adheres to the pasta
in a much more pleasing way.
in a much more pleasing way.
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05:52
In fact, they would do
the famous bowl test
the famous bowl test
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라구와 프레도가 겨뤘던 접시 테스트는 70년대의 유명한 일화입니다.
05:54
back in the 70s with Ragù and Prego.
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05:57
You'd have a plate of spaghetti,
and you would pour it on, right?
and you would pour it on, right?
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스파게티가 담긴 그릇에 소스를 부었을 때
라구 소스는 그릇 바닥 쪽에 고였고, 프레고 소스는 스파게티 위에 남아 있었습니다.
06:01
And the Ragù would all go to the bottom,
and the Prego would sit on top.
and the Prego would sit on top.
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이런 특성을 "점성"이라고 하죠.
06:05
That's called "adherence."
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06:07
And, anyway, despite the fact
that they were far superior in adherence,
that they were far superior in adherence,
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여하튼, 점성이나 품질이 훨씬 뛰어난데도 불구하고
프레고는 고전을 면치 못하고 있었습니다.
06:12
and the quality of their tomato paste,
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06:14
Prego was struggling.
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06:16
So they came to Howard,
and they said, fix us.
and they said, fix us.
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그래서 하워드에게 도움을 청했습니다.
06:19
And Howard looked
at their product line, and he said,
at their product line, and he said,
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하워드는 제품 목록을 쭉 보더니
이를 "죽은 토마토의 사회"라고 말하고는
06:22
what you have is a dead tomato society.
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새로운 제안을 했습니다.
06:25
So he said, this is what I want to do.
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우선 캠벨 수프 요리사들과 함께
06:28
And he got together
with the Campbell's soup kitchen,
with the Campbell's soup kitchen,
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45개 종류의 스파게티 소스를 만들었습니다.
06:30
and he made 45 varieties
of spaghetti sauce.
of spaghetti sauce.
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06:34
And he varied them according
to every conceivable way
to every conceivable way
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상상할 수 있는 모든 방법을 동원하여 다양한 소스를 창조해냈습니다.
06:37
that you can vary tomato sauce:
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06:38
by sweetness, by level of garlic,
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단 맛, 마늘 맛, 톡쏘는 맛, 신 맛의 정도, 토마토다운 정도에 따라서,
06:40
by tomatoey-ness,
by tartness, by sourness,
by tartness, by sourness,
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그리고 덩어리진 정도에 따라서 나눴습니다. "덩어리"는 스파게티 소스 비즈니스에서 제가 가장 좋아하는 용어입니다. (웃음)
06:43
by visible solids --
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06:45
my favorite term
in the spaghetti sauce business.
in the spaghetti sauce business.
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06:48
(Laughter)
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06:49
Every conceivable way
you can vary spaghetti sauce,
you can vary spaghetti sauce,
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상상할 수 있는 모든 스파게티 소스를 만들어 봤습니다.
06:53
he varied spaghetti sauce.
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이렇게 만든 45개의 소스를 전부 들고 길을 나섰습니다.
06:54
And then he took this whole raft
of 45 spaghetti sauces,
of 45 spaghetti sauces,
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06:58
and he went on the road.
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뉴욕으로, 시카고로, 잭슨빌로,
06:59
He went to New York, to Chicago,
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그리고 로스앤젤레스로 갔습니다. 한 트럭 분의 사람들을 커다란 강당에 모은 후,
07:01
he went to Jacksonville, to Los Angeles.
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07:03
And he brought in people
by the truckload into big halls.
by the truckload into big halls.
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07:07
And he sat them down for two hours,
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2시간 동안 10가지 종류의 음식을
07:09
and over the course of that two hours,
he gave them ten bowls.
he gave them ten bowls.
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맛보게 했습니다.
07:12
Ten small bowls of pasta,
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서로 다른 소스를 사용하여 만든 파스타들이었어요.
07:13
with a different spaghetti
sauce on each one.
sauce on each one.
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각각의 파스타를 먹은 후에 선호도에 따라
07:16
And after they ate each bowl,
they had to rate, from 0 to 100,
they had to rate, from 0 to 100,
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0~100까지 점수를 매기도록 했습니다.
07:21
how good they thought
the spaghetti sauce was.
the spaghetti sauce was.
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여러 달에 걸쳐 똑같은 실험을 반복한 결과
07:24
At the end of that process,
after doing it for months and months,
after doing it for months and months,
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미국인들의 스파게티 소스 선호도에 대한 데이터를
07:27
he had a mountain of data
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산더미 같이 축적할 수 있었습니다.
07:28
about how the American people
feel about spaghetti sauce.
feel about spaghetti sauce.
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07:32
And then he analyzed the data.
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그리고 데이터를 분석하면서
07:34
Did he look for the most popular
variety of spaghetti sauce?
variety of spaghetti sauce?
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가장 인기있는 스파게티 소스를 찾았냐고요? 아니죠!
07:38
No! Howard doesn't believe
that there is such a thing.
that there is such a thing.
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하워드는 그런 게 있을거라고 믿지 않았으니까요.
그는 데이터를 보더니, 그 대신에
07:41
Instead, he looked
at the data, and he said,
at the data, and he said,
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특징에 따라 사람들의 선호도 데이터를
07:43
let's see if we can group all these
different data points into clusters.
different data points into clusters.
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07:48
Let's see if they congregate
around certain ideas.
around certain ideas.
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그룹 지어 보자고 했습니다.
07:51
And sure enough, if you sit down,
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스파게티 소스에 대한 데이터를 꼼꼼히 분석한 결과
07:54
and you analyze all this data
on spaghetti sauce,
on spaghetti sauce,
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07:57
you realize that all Americans
fall into one of three groups.
fall into one of three groups.
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미국인이 세 그룹으로 나눠진다는 사실을 알게 되었습니다.
단조로운 맛을 좋아하는 그룹,
08:01
There are people
who like their spaghetti sauce plain;
who like their spaghetti sauce plain;
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강한 양념 맛을 좋아하는 그룹,
08:04
there are people
who like their spaghetti sauce spicy;
who like their spaghetti sauce spicy;
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08:06
and there are people
who like it extra chunky.
who like it extra chunky.
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그리고 과육 덩어리가 많은 상태를 좋아하는 그룹.
08:09
And of those three facts,
the third one was the most significant,
the third one was the most significant,
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이 중에서 세 번째 그룹이 가장 의미 있었습니다.
08:13
because at the time, in the early 1980s,
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왜냐하면 1980년대 초에는
수퍼마켓에
08:16
if you went to a supermarket,
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덩어리가 많은 스파게티 소스는 없었거든요.
08:18
you would not find
extra-chunky spaghetti sauce.
extra-chunky spaghetti sauce.
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08:21
And Prego turned to Howard, and they said,
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프레고는 하워드에게 물었습니다.
"덩어리가 많이 든 스파게티 소스를 원하는 인구가 미국인의 삼분의 일이나 되는데,
08:23
"You're telling me
that one third of Americans
that one third of Americans
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08:26
crave extra-chunky spaghetti sauce
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08:29
and yet no one is servicing their needs?"
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이런 제품을 만드는 사람이 아직 없다는 말이에요?" 그의 대답은 "예스!" 였습니다.
08:32
And he said "Yes!"
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08:33
(Laughter)
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(웃음) 프레고는 돌아가서
08:34
And Prego then went back,
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완전히 새로운 스파게티 소스를 만들기 시작했습니다.
08:36
and completely reformulated
their spaghetti sauce,
their spaghetti sauce,
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덩어리가 든 제품 라인을 출시했고
08:38
and came out with a line of extra chunky
that immediately and completely
that immediately and completely
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이 제품들은 순식간에 국내 스파게티 소스 시장을 평정하게 됩니다.
08:42
took over the spaghetti sauce
business in this country.
business in this country.
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그 후 10년 간 덩어리 소스는
08:45
And over the next 10 years,
they made 600 million dollars
they made 600 million dollars
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60억 달러를 벌어들였습니다.
08:49
off their line of extra-chunky sauces.
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08:52
Everyone else in the industry looked
at Howard had done, and they said,
at Howard had done, and they said,
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업계 모든 이들은 하워드가 해낸 일을 보고 이렇게 외쳤습니다.
"맙소사! 우리는 전부 틀렸었어!"
08:56
"Oh my god! We've been
thinking all wrong!"
thinking all wrong!"
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08:58
And that's when you started to get
seven different kinds of vinegar,
seven different kinds of vinegar,
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이 사건이 우리에게 7종의 식초와 14종의 머스터드
71종의 올리브유에 대한 선택권이 생긴 발단입니다.
09:02
and 14 different kinds of mustard,
and 71 different kinds of olive oil.
and 71 different kinds of olive oil.
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나중에는 라구에서도 하워드를 고용했습니다.
09:07
And then eventually
even Ragù hired Howard,
even Ragù hired Howard,
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09:10
and Howard did the exact same thing
for Ragù that he did for Prego.
for Ragù that he did for Prego.
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하워드는 프레고에 했던 것과 똑같은 일을 했습니다.
오늘날 좋은 수퍼마켓에 가면
09:14
And today, if you go
to a really good supermarket,
to a really good supermarket,
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얼마나 많은 라구 제품이 있는지 보실 수 있습니다.
09:16
do you know how many Ragùs there are?
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몇 개인지 아세요? 36개입니다!
09:18
36!
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09:20
In six varieties:
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총 여섯 개의 그룹으로 나뉩니다: 치즈 맛, 가벼운 맛, 감칠 맛,
09:22
Cheese, Light,
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09:25
Robusto, Rich & Hearty,
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기름진 맛, 전통적인 맛, 덩어리가 많은 제품까지! (웃음)
09:28
Old World Traditional --
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09:32
Extra-Chunky Garden.
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09:34
(Laughter)
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09:35
That's Howard's doing.
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모두 하워드가 한 일입니다. 미국인들에게 준 선물이죠.
09:37
That is Howard's gift
to the American people.
to the American people.
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09:39
Now why is that important?
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이것이 왜 중요할까요?
09:41
(Laughter)
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09:43
It is, in fact, enormously important.
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사실 이건 정말로 중요한 사건입니다. 왜 그런지 설명해드리죠.
09:45
I'll explain to you why.
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09:47
What Howard did is he fundamentally
changed the way the food industry thinks
changed the way the food industry thinks
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하워드는 식품업계가 소비자를 행복하게 하는 방법을
근본적으로 바꿨기 때문입니다.
09:51
about making you happy.
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09:53
Assumption number one
in the food industry used to be
in the food industry used to be
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식품업계는 사람들이 무엇을 먹기 원하는지
09:56
that the way to find out
what people want to eat,
what people want to eat,
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무엇이 그들을 행복하게 하는지 알기 위해
09:59
what will make people happy,
is to ask them.
is to ask them.
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그들에게 물어야 한다고 생각했었습니다.
10:02
And for years and years and years,
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그래서 여러 해 동안 라구와 프레고는
10:04
Ragù and Prego would have focus groups,
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소비자 그룹을 앉혀 두고 이렇게 물었습니다.
10:06
and they would sit you down,
and they would say,
and they would say,
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"어떤 스파게티 소스를 원하시나요? 여러분이 바라는 것을 알려주세요."
10:08
"What do you want in a spaghetti sauce?
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10:10
Tell us what you want
in a spaghetti sauce."
in a spaghetti sauce."
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20~30년 간 있었던
10:12
And for all those years -- 20, 30 years --
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10:15
through all those focus group sessions,
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소비자 그룹 모임 중에
10:17
no one ever said they wanted extra-chunky.
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덩어리가 많으면 좋겠다는 말은 한 번도 나오지 않았습니다.
10:21
Even though at least a third of them,
deep in their hearts, actually did.
deep in their hearts, actually did.
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소비자 세 명 중 한 명은 마음 속 깊이 이것을 원했음에도 불구하고 말이죠.
(웃음)
10:25
(Laughter)
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10:27
People don't know what they want!
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사람들은 사실 자기가 무엇을 원하는지 본인도 모르는 거에요!
10:29
As Howard loves to say,
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하워드는 "마음은 혀가 무엇을 원하는지 모른다"고 즐겨 말했습니다.
10:31
"The mind knows not
what the tongue wants."
what the tongue wants."
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미스테리한 사실이죠!
10:33
It's a mystery!
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10:34
(Laughter)
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그러니 자신이 원하는 것을 이해하기 위해서는
10:35
And a critically important step
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10:38
in understanding
our own desires and tastes
our own desires and tastes
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원하는 것을 항상 설명할 수는 없다는 것을 깨닫는 것이 매우 중요합니다.
10:41
is to realize that we cannot always
explain what we want, deep down.
explain what we want, deep down.
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제가 만약 여기 계신 여러분들께 어떤 커피를 원하시는지 묻는다면
10:46
If I asked all of you, for example,
in this room, what you want in a coffee,
in this room, what you want in a coffee,
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뭐라고 하시겠어요? 모든 분들이 "깊고 진하며 풍부한 맛을 원한다"고 할 겁니다.
10:50
you know what you'd say?
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10:51
Every one of you would say,
"I want a dark, rich, hearty roast."
"I want a dark, rich, hearty roast."
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그 답이 어떤 커피를 원하는지 물었을 때 나오는 일반적인 대답입니다.
10:56
It's what people always say
when you ask them.
when you ask them.
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어떤 게 좋냐고요? 깊고 진하며 풍부한 맛이요!
10:58
"What do you like?"
"Dark, rich, hearty roast!"
"Dark, rich, hearty roast!"
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여러분 중 실제로 몇 퍼센트가 그 깊고 진하며 풍부한 맛의 커피를 원할까요?
11:01
What percentage of you actually
like a dark, rich, hearty roast?
like a dark, rich, hearty roast?
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11:04
According to Howard, somewhere
between 25 and 27 percent of you.
between 25 and 27 percent of you.
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하워드에 따르면 25~27%의 사람이 그렇다고 합니다.
대부분의 사람들은 우유가 든 연한 커피를 좋아합니다.
11:08
Most of you like milky, weak coffee.
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11:10
(Laughter)
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11:11
But you will never, ever say
to someone who asks you what you want
to someone who asks you what you want
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하지만 어떤 커피를 원하냐고 물었을 때, "우유가 든 연한 커피가 좋아요"
라고 대답하는 사람은 절대 없습니다. (웃음)
11:14
that "I want a milky, weak coffee."
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이게 하워드가 이룬 첫번째 업적입니다.
11:17
So that's number one thing
that Howard did.
that Howard did.
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11:21
Number two thing that Howard did
is he made us realize --
is he made us realize --
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하워드의 두번째 업적은 --
11:24
it's another very critical point --
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이것도 매우 중요한 것인데 --
11:26
he made us realize the importance
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그가 우리에게 수평적 구분(horizontal segmentation)이라는 특성을 일깨워주었다는 것입니다.
11:28
of what he likes to call
"horizontal segmentation."
"horizontal segmentation."
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11:32
Why is this critical?
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이것이 그렇게 중요한 이유는
11:33
Because this is the way the food industry
thought before Howard.
thought before Howard.
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하워드 등장 이전의 식품업계의 사고 방식과 반대되기 때문입니다.
80년대 초반 식품 업계는 머스터드에 사로잡혀 있었습니다.
11:37
What were they obsessed with
in the early 80s?
in the early 80s?
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11:39
They were obsessed with mustard.
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11:41
In particular, they were obsessed
with the story of Grey Poupon.
with the story of Grey Poupon.
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정확히 말해 그레이 푸폰에 홀려 있었습니다.
11:44
Used to be, there were two mustards:
French's and Gulden's.
French's and Gulden's.
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기존의 머스터드는 프랑스풍과 네덜란드풍으로 나뉘어 있었습니다.
이게 다 뭐냐고요? 황색 머스터드입니다. 그 속에 뭐가 들어있냐고요?
11:48
What were they? Yellow mustard.
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11:49
What's in it?
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황색 겨자씨와, 심황, 파프리카가 섞여 있습니다. 그게 머스터드였습니다.
11:50
Yellow mustard seeds,
turmeric, and paprika.
turmeric, and paprika.
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11:52
That was mustard.
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11:53
Grey Poupon came along, with a Dijon.
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이 때 디종 산 그레이 푸폰이 등장합니다.
11:56
Right?
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코를 톡 쏘는, 휘발성 높은 갈색 겨자씨에 화이트 와인을 섞은
11:57
Much more volatile brown mustard seed,
some white wine, a nose hit,
some white wine, a nose hit,
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훨씬 더 복잡한 향기를 가진 제품입니다. 이걸로 무얼 할 수 있을까요?
12:03
much more delicate aromatics.
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12:05
And what do they do?
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멋진 에나멜 상표를 붙인 작은 유리병에 담아서 프랑스풍으로 만들었습니다.
12:06
They put it in a little tiny glass jar,
with a wonderful enameled label on it,
with a wonderful enameled label on it,
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실제로는 캘리포니아 옥스나드에서 만들었지만요.
12:11
made it look French,
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12:12
even though it's made
in Oxnard, California.
in Oxnard, California.
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12:14
(Laughter)
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8온스 병에 1달러 50센트를 받는 대신에
12:15
And instead of charging a dollar fifty
for the eight-ounce bottle,
for the eight-ounce bottle,
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12:19
the way that French's and Gulden's did,
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프랑스와 네덜란드식으로 4달러를 받기로 했습니다.
12:21
they decided to charge four dollars.
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그리고 광고에 그레이 푸폰을 먹고 있는 롤스로이스 주인을 내세웠습니다.
12:23
And they had those ads.
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12:24
With the guy in the Rolls Royce,
eating the Grey Poupon.
eating the Grey Poupon.
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다른 롤스로이스들이 멈추자 그는 묻죠.
12:27
Another pulls up, and says,
"Do you have any Grey Poupon?"
"Do you have any Grey Poupon?"
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당신은 그레이 푸폰 먹어본 적 있나요?
이런 과정을 거쳐 그레이 푸폰은 떴습니다.
12:30
And the whole thing, after they did that,
Grey Poupon takes off!
Grey Poupon takes off!
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머스터드 업계를 장악했어요!
12:33
Takes over the mustard business!
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여기서 얻을 수 있는 교훈은
12:35
And everyone's take-home lesson from that
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12:37
was that the way to make people happy
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사람들을 행복하게 해주려면
12:41
is to give them something
that is more expensive,
that is more expensive,
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좀 더 비싸고, 열망할만한 제품을 제공해야 한다는 것입니다.
12:45
something to aspire to.
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그래야 사람들은 현재 만족하고 있는 제품을 떠나
12:47
It's to make them turn their back
on what they think they like now,
on what they think they like now,
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12:51
and reach out for something
higher up the mustard hierarchy.
higher up the mustard hierarchy.
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머스터드 위계 상에 더 높이 있는 제품을 구매하기 위해 노력하게 됩니다.
12:54
(Laughter)
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더 좋은 머스터드! 더 비싼 머스터드!
12:55
A better mustard!
A more expensive mustard!
A more expensive mustard!
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좀 더 세련 되고, 교양 있고, 의미 있는 머스터드 말이죠.
12:58
A mustard of more sophistication
and culture and meaning.
and culture and meaning.
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하지만 하워드는 말합니다. 모두 틀렸어!
13:01
And Howard looked to that
and said, "That's wrong!"
and said, "That's wrong!"
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머스터드나 토마토 소스 세계에 위계 질서 따위는 없고
13:04
Mustard does not exist on a hierarchy.
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모든 제품이 수평선 상에 늘어서 있다는 것입니다.
13:07
Mustard exists, just like tomato sauce,
on a horizontal plane.
on a horizontal plane.
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13:11
There is no good mustard or bad mustard.
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좋고 나쁜 머스터드도 없고
13:14
There is no perfect mustard
or imperfect mustard.
or imperfect mustard.
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완전하거나 불완전한 머스터드도 없고
단지 서로 다른 사람들의 입맛에 맞는 여러 종류의 머스터드가 있을 뿐이라는거죠.
13:16
There are only different kinds of mustards
that suit different kinds of people.
that suit different kinds of people.
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맛에 대한 사고 방식을 근본적으로 민주화했던 것입니다.
13:21
He fundamentally democratized
the way we think about taste.
the way we think about taste.
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이것이 두 번째 하워드 모스코위츠 씨에게 감사할 일이죠.
13:26
And for that, as well, we owe
Howard Moskowitz a huge vote of thanks.
Howard Moskowitz a huge vote of thanks.
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하워드가 세 번째 일은, 아마도 가장 중요한 일이 될텐데,
13:31
Third thing that Howard did,
and perhaps the most important,
and perhaps the most important,
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13:34
is Howard confronted the notion
of the Platonic dish.
of the Platonic dish.
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"이상적인 음식"이라는 개념에 맞섰다는 것입니다. (웃음)
13:37
(Laughter)
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이 말은 무슨 뜻일까요?
13:38
What do I mean by that?
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13:39
(Laughter)
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유사 이래 식품업계는 아주 오랫동안
13:41
For the longest time in the food industry,
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어떤 요리에든 하나의 완벽한 요리법이 존재한다는 생각을 갖고 있었습니다.
13:43
there was a sense that there was one way,
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13:45
a perfect way, to make a dish.
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13:49
You go to Chez Panisse,
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쉐 파니즈 레스토랑에 가면 어떠어떠한 조리 방법으로 만든
13:51
they give you the red-tail sashimi
with roasted pumpkin seeds
with roasted pumpkin seeds
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볶은 호박 씨를 곁들인 붉은 꼬리 생선회가 나옵니다.
13:56
in a something something reduction.
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요리사의 조리법에 대해 우리는 선택의 여지가 없습니다.
13:58
They don't give you five options
on the reduction.
on the reduction.
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14:00
They don't say, "Do you want
the extra-chunky reduction, or ...?"
the extra-chunky reduction, or ...?"
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식당에서 "추가 과육은 빼고 요리해 드릴까요?"라고 물어보지는 않잖아요?
14:04
No!
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그냥 빠진 상태로 나옵니다. 왜 일까요? 쉐 파니즈 주방장은
14:05
You just get the reduction. Why?
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14:07
Because the chef at Chez Panisse
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붉은 꼬리 생선회 요리에 대한 이상적 관념을 가지고 있기 때문입니다.
14:08
has a Platonic notion
about red-tail sashimi.
about red-tail sashimi.
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"반드시 이래야 한다"는 방식 말입니다.
14:11
"This is the way it ought to be."
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14:13
And she serves it that way
time and time again,
time and time again,
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지금까지 계속 같은 방식으로 그 요리를 대접했기 때문이죠.
14:17
and if you quarrel with her, she will say,
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주방장과 말다툼이 벌어진다면, 주방장은 이렇게 얘기할 겁니다.
"당신은 틀렸어! 이게 이 레스토랑에서 따라야 할 최상의 방법이라고!"
14:20
"You know what? You're wrong!
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14:22
This is the best way it ought to be
in this restaurant."
in this restaurant."
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식품 공장에서도 똑같습니다.
14:25
Now that same idea fueled
the commercial food industry as well.
the commercial food industry as well.
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그들은 토마토 소스는 이러이러해야 한다는 이상적인 관념을 갖고 있었습니다.
14:29
They had a Platonic notion
of what tomato sauce was.
of what tomato sauce was.
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토마토 소스의 기원이 어디일까요? 이탈리아입니다.
14:32
And where did that come from?
It came from Italy.
It came from Italy.
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14:34
Italian tomato sauce is what?
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이탈리아 토마토 소스는 어떻죠? 묽게 혼합되어 있습니다.
14:37
It's blended; it's thin.
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원조 토마토 소스는 묽어요.
14:39
The culture of tomato sauce was thin.
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14:41
When we talked about "authentic
tomato sauce" in the 1970s,
tomato sauce" in the 1970s,
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1970년대 정통 토마토 소스에 대해 이야기한다면
14:44
we talked about Italian tomato sauce,
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이탈리아 토마토 소스를 언급해야 합니다. 최초의 라구 제품에 대해서요.
14:46
we talked about the earliest Ragùs,
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덩어리를 찾아볼 수 없는 제품이었어요.
14:48
which had no visible solids, right?
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14:50
Which were thin, you just put a little bit
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묽기 때문에 파스타에 부으면
그릇 바닥에 가라 앉아 버립니다.
14:52
and it sunk down to the bottom
of the pasta.
of the pasta.
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그거면 되죠. 여기에 뭔가 더할 이유가 있나요?
14:55
That's what it was.
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14:56
And why were we attached to that?
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왜냐하면 가장 정통에 가까운 토마토 소스를 제공하면
14:57
Because we thought
that what it took to make people happy
that what it took to make people happy
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사람들이 행복해질 것이라고 생각했었기 때문입니다.
15:00
was to provide them with the most
culturally authentic tomato sauce, A.
culturally authentic tomato sauce, A.
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15:05
And B, we thought that if we gave them
the culturally authentic tomato sauce,
the culturally authentic tomato sauce,
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가장 정통에 가까운 토마토 소스만 제공하면
모두가 받아들일 거라고 생각했지요.
15:10
then they would embrace it.
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이것이 최대 다수의 최대 행복을 이끌어 낼 수 있는 방법이고,
15:11
And that's what would please
the maximum number of people.
the maximum number of people.
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다시 말해, 요리사들이
15:15
In other words,
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인류에 맞는 보편적인 요리법을 찾아 헤맸다는 뜻입니다.
15:17
people in the cooking world
were looking for cooking universals.
were looking for cooking universals.
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그들은 우리들 모두를 즐겁게 할 수 있는 한 가지 방법을 연구했습니다.
15:21
They were looking for one way
to treat all of us.
to treat all of us.
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15:23
And it's good reason for them
to be obsessed
to be obsessed
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보편성이라는 개념에 사로잡히는 이 현상은
15:26
with the idea of universals,
337
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19~20세기 동안 모든 과학 분야 전반을
15:27
because all of science,
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15:29
through the 19th century
and much of the 20th,
and much of the 20th,
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휩쓸었습니다.
15:31
was obsessed with universals.
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심리학자, 의학자, 경제학자들도 인류의 행동을
15:32
Psychologists, medical scientists,
economists
economists
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15:37
were all interested
in finding out the rules
in finding out the rules
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다스릴 수 있는 규칙을 찾는데 혈안이 되어 있었습니다.
15:39
that govern the way all of us behave.
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하지만 이제는 바뀌었습니다.
15:42
But that changed, right?
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15:43
What is the great revolution
in science of the last 10, 15 years?
in science of the last 10, 15 years?
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지난 10~15년 간 과학계에 일어난 대변혁이 무엇입니까?
보편성 논쟁을 마치고, 다양성에 대한 이해를 넓혀가려는 운동입니다.
15:47
It is the movement
from the search for universals
from the search for universals
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15:50
to the understanding of variability.
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이제 의학계는 암이 어떻게 작동하는지보다
15:53
Now in medical science,
we don't want to know, necessarily,
we don't want to know, necessarily,
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15:56
just how cancer works,
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여러분의 암과 제 암이 어떻게 다른지를 연구하기 시작했습니다.
15:58
we want to know how your cancer
is different from my cancer.
is different from my cancer.
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16:01
I guess my cancer different
from your cancer.
from your cancer.
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그 둘은 서로 다르니까요.
16:04
Genetics has opened the door
to the study of human variability.
to the study of human variability.
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유전학은 인간의 다양성에 대한 연구의 문을 열었습니다.
16:08
What Howard Moskowitz
was doing was saying,
was doing was saying,
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하워드 모스코위츠 씨는 이런 대변혁이
16:10
"This same revolution needs to happen
in the world of tomato sauce."
in the world of tomato sauce."
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토마토 소스의 세계에도 일어나야 한다고 주장했던 것입니다.
16:15
And for that, we owe him
a great vote of thanks.
a great vote of thanks.
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이것이 우리가 그의 공로에 감사해야하는 세 번째 이유입니다.
다양성에 대한 마지막 예를 하나 들겠습니다. -- 아, 죄송합니다.
16:20
I'll give you one last
illustration of variability,
illustration of variability,
356
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2842
16:22
and that is -- oh, I'm sorry.
357
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16:24
Howard not only believed that,
but he took it a second step,
but he took it a second step,
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하워드는 단순한 믿음에서 한 걸음 더 나아갔습니다.
음식의 보편성을 찾아 헤맨 것은 단순한 실수가 아니라
16:28
which was to say that when we pursue
universal principles in food,
universal principles in food,
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16:33
we aren't just making an error;
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우리 자신을 대단히 홀대해온 것이라고 했습니다.
16:35
we are actually doing ourselves
a massive disservice.
a massive disservice.
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16:38
And the example he used was coffee.
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그는 커피를 예로 들었습니다.
네스카페와의 작업 중에 커피와 관련된 일을 많이 했습니다.
16:41
And coffee is something he did
a lot of work with, with Nescafé.
a lot of work with, with Nescafé.
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16:45
If I were to ask all of you to try
and come up with a brand of coffee --
and come up with a brand of coffee --
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만약 제가 여러분께 여기 있는 모든 사람을 행복하게 할 수 있는
브랜드를 딱 하나 골라오시라고 한 후에
16:49
a type of coffee, a brew --
that made all of you happy,
that made all of you happy,
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나머지 분들께 0~100점 사이의 평점을 요구한다면
16:52
and then I asked you to rate that coffee,
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아마 평균 60점 정도의 점수를 받을 겁니다.
16:54
the average score in this room for coffee
would be about 60 on a scale of 0 to 100.
would be about 60 on a scale of 0 to 100.
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16:58
If, however, you allowed me
to break you into coffee clusters,
to break you into coffee clusters,
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하지만 만약 여러분을
3~4개 정도의 그룹으로 나누고
17:02
maybe three or four coffee clusters,
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개별 그룹을 위한 커피를 만든다면
17:04
and I could make coffee just
for each of those individual clusters,
for each of those individual clusters,
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17:08
your scores would go from 60 to 75 or 78.
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평균 점수가 60점에서 75~78점까지로 높아집니다.
17:12
The difference between coffee
at 60 and coffee at 78
at 60 and coffee at 78
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이 60점과 78점의 차이는 커피를 마신 후 여러분의 기분이
그저 그럴지, 아니면 아주 행복할지를
17:18
is a difference between coffee
that makes you wince,
that makes you wince,
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17:20
and coffee that makes you
deliriously happy.
deliriously happy.
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결정할 정도의 큰 차이입니다.
17:24
That is the final, and I think
most beautiful lesson,
most beautiful lesson,
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이것이 하워드 모스코위츠 씨가 베푼 가장 아름다운 마지막 교훈입니다.
17:27
of Howard Moskowitz:
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인류의 다양성을 포용하는 것이
17:29
that in embracing the diversity
of human beings,
of human beings,
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17:32
we will find a surer way
to true happiness.
to true happiness.
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진정한 행복으로 가는 틀림없는 길이라는 것이죠.
17:35
Thank you.
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감사합니다.
17:36
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Malcolm Gladwell - WriterDetective of fads and emerging subcultures, chronicler of jobs-you-never-knew-existed, Malcolm Gladwell's work is toppling the popular understanding of bias, crime, food, marketing, race, consumers and intelligence.
Why you should listen
Malcolm Gladwell searches for the counterintuitive in what we all take to be the mundane: cookies, sneakers, pasta sauce. A New Yorker staff writer since 1996, he visits obscure laboratories and infomercial set kitchens as often as the hangouts of freelance cool-hunters -- a sort of pop-R&D gumshoe -- and for that has become a star lecturer and bestselling author.
Sparkling with curiosity, undaunted by difficult research (yet an eloquent, accessible writer), his work uncovers truths hidden in strange data. His always-delightful blog tackles topics from serial killers to steroids in sports, while provocative recent work in the New Yorker sheds new light on the Flynn effect -- the decades-spanning rise in I.Q. scores.
Gladwell has written four books. The Tipping Point, which began as a New Yorker piece, applies the principles of epidemiology to crime (and sneaker sales), while Blink examines the unconscious processes that allow the mind to "thin slice" reality -- and make decisions in the blink of an eye. His third book, Outliers, questions the inevitabilities of success and identifies the relation of success to nature versus nurture. The newest work, What the Dog Saw and Other Adventures, is an anthology of his New Yorker contributions.
He says: "There is more going on beneath the surface than we think, and more going on in little, finite moments of time than we would guess."
Malcolm Gladwell | Speaker | TED.com