TED2004
Malcolm Gladwell: Choice, happiness and spaghetti sauce
葛拉威爾談義大利麵醬
Filmed:
Readability: 3.8
8,618,534 views
《引爆趨勢》的作者葛拉威爾分享飲食產業追求完美義大利麵醬的內幕－也同時探討選擇和幸福的本質。
Malcolm Gladwell - Writer
Detective of fads and emerging subcultures, chronicler of jobs-you-never-knew-existed, Malcolm Gladwell's work is toppling the popular understanding of bias, crime, food, marketing, race, consumers and intelligence. Full bio
Detective of fads and emerging subcultures, chronicler of jobs-you-never-knew-existed, Malcolm Gladwell's work is toppling the popular understanding of bias, crime, food, marketing, race, consumers and intelligence. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
我想我今天應該是要談我的新書，
00:25
I think I was supposed
to talk about my new book,
to talk about my new book,
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00:27
which is called "Blink,"
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書名叫《決斷2秒間》，探討的是瞬間判斷和第一印象。
00:29
and it's about snap judgments
and first impressions.
and first impressions.
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00:32
And it comes out in January,
and I hope you all buy it in triplicate.
and I hope you all buy it in triplicate.
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它會明年一月上市，希望大家都各買三本。
00:36
(Laughter)
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但是當我在想這件事情的時候，
00:38
But I was thinking about this,
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00:39
and I realized that although
my new book makes me happy,
my new book makes me happy,
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我發現雖然我的新書讓我開心、
也會讓我媽開心，
00:44
and I think would make my mother happy,
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00:46
it's not really about happiness.
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這些卻跟快樂無關。
所以，我決定不要談新書，而是跟大家介紹一位
00:49
So I decided instead,
I would talk about someone
I would talk about someone
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00:52
who I think has done as much
to make Americans happy
to make Americans happy
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我覺得在這過去二十年來，
比誰都讓美國人快樂的人。
00:56
as perhaps anyone over the last 20 years,
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00:59
a man who is a great
personal hero of mine:
personal hero of mine:
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這個人是我心目中的英雄。
01:02
someone by the name of Howard Moskowitz,
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他的名字是默斯克韋茲。
01:05
who is most famous
for reinventing spaghetti sauce.
for reinventing spaghetti sauce.
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他以重新發明義大利麵醬而聞名。
默斯克韋茲大概這麼高、身材圓滾滾、
01:10
Howard's about this high, and he's round,
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01:14
and he's in his 60s,
and he has big huge glasses
and he has big huge glasses
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六十來歲、戴著巨大的眼鏡、
和稀疏的白髮、流露出一種奇妙的活力和朝氣，
01:19
and thinning gray hair,
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01:21
and he has a kind of wonderful
exuberance and vitality,
exuberance and vitality,
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他養了一隻鸚鵡、熱愛歌劇、
01:25
and he has a parrot,
and he loves the opera,
and he loves the opera,
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01:28
and he's a great aficionado
of medieval history.
of medieval history.
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也是中世紀歷史的愛好者。
他的職業是心理物理學家。
01:33
And by profession, he's a psychophysicist.
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01:35
Now, I should tell you that I have no idea
what psychophysics is,
what psychophysics is,
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我應該告訴你們，我完全不知道心理物理學是什麼東西，
雖然我曾經跟一個攻讀
01:40
although at some point in my life,
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01:42
I dated a girl for two years
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01:43
who was getting
her doctorate in psychophysics.
her doctorate in psychophysics.
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心理物理學博士的女生約會。
01:45
Which should tell you something
about that relationship.
about that relationship.
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這大概透露出那段感情的一些訊息。（笑聲）
01:49
(Laughter)
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01:51
As far as I know, psychophysics
is about measuring things.
is about measuring things.
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從我所知道的，心理物理學是要測量東西。
01:54
And Howard is very interested
in measuring things.
in measuring things.
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而默斯克韋茲對測量東西非常有興趣。
他得到哈佛博士後，
01:57
And he graduated
with his doctorate from Harvard,
with his doctorate from Harvard,
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在紐約的White Plains成立了一家小顧問公司。
01:59
and he set up a little consulting shop
in White Plains, New York.
in White Plains, New York.
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他的第一個客戶就是－這是在很多年前，在七零年代初期
02:03
And one of his first clients was Pepsi.
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02:06
This is many years ago,
back in the early 70s.
back in the early 70s.
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－他的第一個客戶就是百事可樂。
百事可樂找了默斯克韋茲，說：
02:10
And Pepsi came to Howard and they said,
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"你知道嗎，現在有個新東西叫阿斯巴甜，
02:12
"You know, there's this new
thing called aspartame,
thing called aspartame,
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我們想要用來做健怡百事可樂。
02:14
and we would like to make Diet Pepsi.
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02:16
We'd like you to figure out
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我們希望你可以幫我們研究出，我們應該在每罐健怡百事可樂
02:18
how much aspartame we should put
in each can of Diet Pepsi
in each can of Diet Pepsi
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放入多少阿斯巴甜，才會得到最完美的飲料。" 對嗎？
02:22
in order to have the perfect drink."
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02:24
Now that sounds like an incredibly
straightforward question to answer,
straightforward question to answer,
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這聽起來應該是個最可以直接回答的問題，
02:28
and that's what Howard thought.
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默斯克韋茲也是這麼想。因為百事可樂告訴他，
02:30
Because Pepsi told him,
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"看，我們目前正在考慮界於百分之8和百分之12之間的甜度。
02:31
"We're working with a band
between eight and 12 percent.
between eight and 12 percent.
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百分之8以下的甜度不夠甜、
02:34
Anything below eight percent
sweetness is not sweet enough;
sweetness is not sweet enough;
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而百分之12以上的甜度太甜。
02:37
anything above 12 percent
sweetness is too sweet.
sweetness is too sweet.
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02:40
We want to know: what's the sweet
spot between 8 and 12?"
spot between 8 and 12?"
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我們想知道，界乎百分之8和12之間的理想甜值是多少？"
02:44
Now, if I gave you this problem to do,
you would all say, it's very simple.
you would all say, it's very simple.
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假如我現在叫你們解決這個問題，你們一定會說："很簡單啦！"
首先，製造一大批的百事可樂做實驗，
02:48
What we do is you make up
a big experimental batch of Pepsi,
a big experimental batch of Pepsi,
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02:51
at every degree of sweetness --
eight percent, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3,
eight percent, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3,
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製造不同的甜度－百分之8、 8.1、8.2、8.3，
一直到百分之12－讓幾千個人試喝，
02:56
all the way up to 12 --
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02:57
and we try this out
with thousands of people,
with thousands of people,
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再把數據畫成曲線圖，
03:00
and we plot the results on a curve,
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03:02
and we take the most popular
concentration, right?
concentration, right?
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然後再取最受歡迎的甜度。對吧？很簡單。
03:05
Really simple.
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03:06
Howard does the experiment,
and he gets the data back,
and he gets the data back,
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默斯克韋茲做了實驗，得到數據，再畫成曲線圖，
03:09
and he plots it on a curve,
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卻突然發現不是一個漂亮的鐘形曲線。
03:10
and all of a sudden he realizes
it's not a nice bell curve.
it's not a nice bell curve.
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03:13
In fact, the data doesn't make any sense.
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事實上，從數據上根本看不出個所以然來。
它亂無章法，分佈在各處。
03:15
It's a mess. It's all over the place.
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03:17
Now, most people in that business,
in the world of testing food and such,
in the world of testing food and such,
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其實，大部分從事那種行業的人、在食品測試之類的世界裡，
03:22
are not dismayed
when the data comes back a mess.
when the data comes back a mess.
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得到這種亂無章法的數據都不會感到驚訝。
03:25
They think, "Well, you know,
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他們會想說："嗯，你知道嘍，要搞清楚大家對可樂的喜好並沒有那麼簡單。"
03:26
figuring out what people think
about cola's not that easy."
about cola's not that easy."
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03:29
"You know, maybe we made an error
somewhere along the way."
somewhere along the way."
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"嗯，也許我們在實驗的過程中哪裡出了錯。"
"嗯，那我們來做個學術性的猜測，"
03:32
"You know, let's just
make an educated guess,"
make an educated guess,"
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03:34
and they simply point
and they go for 10 percent,
and they go for 10 percent,
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然後他們就指向百分之10，就在正中間。
03:37
right in the middle.
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03:38
Howard is not so easily placated.
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默斯克韋茲可就沒這麼容易說服。
03:40
Howard is a man of a certain degree
of intellectual standards.
of intellectual standards.
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默斯克韋茲是個秉持某程度的智慧標準的人。
03:43
And this was not good enough for him,
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這種作法無法滿足他，
03:45
and this question bedeviled him for years.
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而這個問題也困惑了他好幾年。
他會徹底的去想究竟哪裡出錯。
03:48
And he would think it through
and say, "What was wrong?
and say, "What was wrong?
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03:50
Why could we not make sense
of this experiment with Diet Pepsi?"
of this experiment with Diet Pepsi?"
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為什麼我們不能令這個健怡百事可樂的實驗有意義?
有一天他坐在 White Plains裡用餐，
03:55
And one day, he was sitting
in a diner in White Plains,
in a diner in White Plains,
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about to go trying to dream up
some work for Nescafé.
some work for Nescafé.
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開始嘗試幻想為雀巢咖啡的事情。
突然之間，好像靈光一閃，答案閃入他的腦中。
04:01
And suddenly, like a bolt of lightning,
the answer came to him.
the answer came to him.
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那就是當他們分析健怡百事可樂的數據時，
04:04
And that is, that when they analyzed
the Diet Pepsi data,
the Diet Pepsi data,
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04:07
they were asking the wrong question.
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他們問了一個錯誤的問題。
04:09
They were looking for the perfect Pepsi,
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他們在找一個完美的百事可樂，
04:11
and they should have been
looking for the perfect Pepsis.
looking for the perfect Pepsis.
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而他們應該找多個完美的百事可樂。相信我吧!
04:15
Trust me.
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04:16
This was an enormous revelation.
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這是一個重大的啟發。
04:18
This was one of the most brilliant
breakthroughs in all of food science.
breakthroughs in all of food science.
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這是在飲食這門科學中其中一個最聰明的突破。
而默斯克韋茲立即出發
04:22
Howard immediately went on the road,
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到世界各地的研討會
04:24
and he would go to conferences
around the country,
around the country,
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去演說。他會說:
04:26
and he would stand up and say,
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"你們尋找一個完美的百事可樂是錯的。
04:28
"You had been looking
for the perfect Pepsi.
for the perfect Pepsi.
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04:30
You're wrong.
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04:31
You should be looking
for the perfect Pepsis."
for the perfect Pepsis."
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你們應該尋找多種完美的百事可樂。"
04:34
And people would look at him
blankly and say,
blankly and say,
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而其他人很茫然的望著他，並說，
"你在說什麼?你瘋了。"
04:37
"What are you talking about? Craziness."
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他們會續說，"好，下一位!"
04:39
And they would say, "Move! Next!"
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04:40
Tried to get business,
nobody would hire him --
nobody would hire him --
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他嘗試找生意。沒有人聘用他 -- 但他仍然堅持
04:43
he was obsessed, though,
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他不斷的談及它，再談及它，再談及它。
04:44
and he talked about it
and talked about it.
and talked about it.
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04:46
Howard loves the Yiddish expression
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默斯克韋茲很愛意第緒語的一句表達
"對於一個在辣根的蠕蟲來說，世界只有辣根。"
04:48
"To a worm in horseradish,
the world is horseradish."
the world is horseradish."
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這是他的辣根。 (笑聲) 他對此很堅持。
04:51
This was his horseradish.
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04:52
(Laughter)
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04:54
He was obsessed with it!
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04:56
And finally, he had a breakthrough.
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最後他有一個突破，弗拉希奇醬菜找他
04:59
Vlasic Pickles came to him,
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05:01
and they said, "Doctor Moskowitz,
we want to make the perfect pickle."
we want to make the perfect pickle."
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他們說，"默斯克韋茲先生 -- 默斯克韋茲博士 --
我們想製造完美的醬菜。" 而他回答說，
05:06
And he said,
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"世上沒有一個完美的醬菜，只有完美的醬菜們。"
05:07
"There is no perfect pickle;
there are only perfect pickles."
there are only perfect pickles."
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他回去跟他們說，"你們不只要改善你們的常規，
05:11
And he came back to them and he said,
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05:12
"You don't just need
to improve your regular;
to improve your regular;
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也需要創造驚喜。"
05:15
you need to create zesty."
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05:16
And that's where we got zesty pickles.
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這就是我們得到美好的醬菜的方法。
05:19
Then the next person came to him:
Campbell's Soup.
Campbell's Soup.
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跟著找他的是康寶濃湯。
05:21
And this was even more important.
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這個更為重要。事實上
康寶濃湯是令默斯克韋茲成名的。
05:23
In fact, Campbell's Soup
is where Howard made his reputation.
is where Howard made his reputation.
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05:27
Campbell's made Prego,
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康寶濃湯生產 Prego，而 Prego 在八零年代初在 Ragu 的競爭中掙扎求存。
05:28
and Prego, in the early 80s,
was struggling next to Ragù,
was struggling next to Ragù,
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05:32
which was the dominant
spaghetti sauce of the 70s and 80s.
spaghetti sauce of the 70s and 80s.
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Ragu 在七零和八零年代是最主要的義大利麪醬。
現在在這個行業裡 -- 我不知道你對此有多少關心，
05:36
In the industry -- I don't
know whether you care about this,
know whether you care about this,
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或我應花多少時間說明。
05:39
or how much time I have to go into this.
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但，以技術上來說，
05:41
But it was, technically speaking
-- this is an aside --
-- this is an aside --
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Prego 比 Ragu 有更好的蕃茄醬。
05:43
Prego is a better tomato sauce than Ragù.
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蕃茄膏的品質更好，香料的配搭更出色。
05:45
The quality of the tomato paste
is much better;
is much better;
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05:48
the spice mix is far superior;
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它更容易黏附在義大利麪。事實上
05:50
it adheres to the pasta
in a much more pleasing way.
in a much more pleasing way.
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05:52
In fact, they would do
the famous bowl test
the famous bowl test
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他們在七零年代用Ragu 和 Prego 做了一個很有名的測試。
05:54
back in the 70s with Ragù and Prego.
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05:57
You'd have a plate of spaghetti,
and you would pour it on, right?
and you would pour it on, right?
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如果你有一盤義大利麪，你會把醬倒上去，對嗎?
而 Ragu 會全沉在底下， 而 Prego 則會凝在表層。
06:01
And the Ragù would all go to the bottom,
and the Prego would sit on top.
and the Prego would sit on top.
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這就是"黏附性"。
06:05
That's called "adherence."
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06:07
And, anyway, despite the fact
that they were far superior in adherence,
that they were far superior in adherence,
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無論如何，儘管事實證明它們的黏附性較優，
蕃茄醬的品質較好，Prego 還是掙扎著。
06:12
and the quality of their tomato paste,
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06:14
Prego was struggling.
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06:16
So they came to Howard,
and they said, fix us.
and they said, fix us.
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所以他們去與默斯克韋茲見面並說，幫我們調整吧。
06:19
And Howard looked
at their product line, and he said,
at their product line, and he said,
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默斯克韋茲看了他們的生產線後說，
"你們所擁有的是一個已死的蕃茄社會。
06:22
what you have is a dead tomato society.
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這是我將會做的。
06:25
So he said, this is what I want to do.
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他在康寶濃湯的廚房裡
06:28
And he got together
with the Campbell's soup kitchen,
with the Campbell's soup kitchen,
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製造45種不同的義大利麪醬，把它們
06:30
and he made 45 varieties
of spaghetti sauce.
of spaghetti sauce.
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06:34
And he varied them according
to every conceivable way
to every conceivable way
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根據各種可能分辨蕃茄醬的方式分類。
06:37
that you can vary tomato sauce:
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06:38
by sweetness, by level of garlic,
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以甜度，蒜的多少，辛辣度，酸度，蕃茄的濃度，
06:40
by tomatoey-ness,
by tartness, by sourness,
by tartness, by sourness,
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可見的料的多少 -- 這是我在義大利麪的行業中最喜歡的詞語。 (笑聲)
06:43
by visible solids --
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06:45
my favorite term
in the spaghetti sauce business.
in the spaghetti sauce business.
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06:48
(Laughter)
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06:49
Every conceivable way
you can vary spaghetti sauce,
you can vary spaghetti sauce,
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用各種可變化的方式來產出不同的蕃茄醬。
06:53
he varied spaghetti sauce.
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然後他就帶著全部45種義大利麪醬出發。
06:54
And then he took this whole raft
of 45 spaghetti sauces,
of 45 spaghetti sauces,
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06:58
and he went on the road.
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他到了紐約，芝加哥，傑克遜維，洛杉磯。
06:59
He went to New York, to Chicago,
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他用貨車載人到大禮堂
07:01
he went to Jacksonville, to Los Angeles.
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07:03
And he brought in people
by the truckload into big halls.
by the truckload into big halls.
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07:07
And he sat them down for two hours,
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在兩小時裡給他們
07:09
and over the course of that two hours,
he gave them ten bowls.
he gave them ten bowls.
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十碗義大利麪。
07:12
Ten small bowls of pasta,
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這十碗義大利麪各有不同的醬。
07:13
with a different spaghetti
sauce on each one.
sauce on each one.
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當他們每嚐完一碗後，他們都以零至100中給評分。
07:16
And after they ate each bowl,
they had to rate, from 0 to 100,
they had to rate, from 0 to 100,
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評定哪一款義大利麪他們覺得最好。
07:21
how good they thought
the spaghetti sauce was.
the spaghetti sauce was.
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經過多個月來的試吃後，
07:24
At the end of that process,
after doing it for months and months,
after doing it for months and months,
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他得到了很多有關美國人
07:27
he had a mountain of data
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對義大利麪醬感想的數據。
07:28
about how the American people
feel about spaghetti sauce.
feel about spaghetti sauce.
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07:32
And then he analyzed the data.
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他分析結果。
07:34
Did he look for the most popular
variety of spaghetti sauce?
variety of spaghetti sauce?
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但他有沒有去尋找最熱門的口味呢? 沒有!
07:38
No! Howard doesn't believe
that there is such a thing.
that there is such a thing.
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默斯克韋茲不相信有這樣東西。
相反，他看著數據
07:41
Instead, he looked
at the data, and he said,
at the data, and he said,
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希望把它們組成群組。
07:43
let's see if we can group all these
different data points into clusters.
different data points into clusters.
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07:48
Let's see if they congregate
around certain ideas.
around certain ideas.
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看看是否可得出某個概念。
07:51
And sure enough, if you sit down,
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當然，如果你坐下來分析所有義大利麪的數據時，
07:54
and you analyze all this data
on spaghetti sauce,
on spaghetti sauce,
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07:57
you realize that all Americans
fall into one of three groups.
fall into one of three groups.
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你會發現美國人的口味可分三種。
有些人喜歡醬料樸實，
08:01
There are people
who like their spaghetti sauce plain;
who like their spaghetti sauce plain;
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有些人喜歡醬料辛辣，
08:04
there are people
who like their spaghetti sauce spicy;
who like their spaghetti sauce spicy;
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08:06
and there are people
who like it extra chunky.
who like it extra chunky.
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有些人喜歡醬料特別有咬感。
08:09
And of those three facts,
the third one was the most significant,
the third one was the most significant,
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在這三類中，尤以第三種更為明顯。
08:13
because at the time, in the early 1980s,
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因為在當時，在八零年代初，
若你到超級市場，
08:16
if you went to a supermarket,
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你無法發現特別爽脆的義大利麪醬。
08:18
you would not find
extra-chunky spaghetti sauce.
extra-chunky spaghetti sauce.
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08:21
And Prego turned to Howard, and they said,
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Prego 轉向默斯克韋茲問到，
"你告訴我有三分之一美國人鍾情特別爽脆的義大利麪醬，
08:23
"You're telling me
that one third of Americans
that one third of Americans
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2697
08:26
crave extra-chunky spaghetti sauce
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08:29
and yet no one is servicing their needs?"
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但沒有人滿足他們的要求?" 他回答說，"是。"
08:32
And he said "Yes!"
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08:33
(Laughter)
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(笑聲) Prego 回去
08:34
And Prego then went back,
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完全把他們的義大利麪醬重新調配，
08:36
and completely reformulated
their spaghetti sauce,
their spaghetti sauce,
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製造一系列特別爽脆的醬。這立即而且完全
08:38
and came out with a line of extra chunky
that immediately and completely
that immediately and completely
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攻佔全國整個義大利麪的工業。
08:42
took over the spaghetti sauce
business in this country.
business in this country.
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而在之後的十數年裡，他們從這個特別爽脆的醬料中
08:45
And over the next 10 years,
they made 600 million dollars
they made 600 million dollars
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得到六億元的收入。
08:49
off their line of extra-chunky sauces.
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08:52
Everyone else in the industry looked
at Howard had done, and they said,
at Howard had done, and they said,
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而其他所有在這行業的人望著默斯克韋茲的所為全都說，
"我的天呀! 我們全都想錯了。"
08:56
"Oh my god! We've been
thinking all wrong!"
thinking all wrong!"
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08:58
And that's when you started to get
seven different kinds of vinegar,
seven different kinds of vinegar,
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而這就開始了七種不同口味的醋，
十四種不同的芥末，七十一種不同的橄欖油
09:02
and 14 different kinds of mustard,
and 71 different kinds of olive oil.
and 71 different kinds of olive oil.
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最終連Ragu 都聘請默斯克韋茲，
09:07
And then eventually
even Ragù hired Howard,
even Ragù hired Howard,
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3247
09:10
and Howard did the exact same thing
for Ragù that he did for Prego.
for Ragù that he did for Prego.
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而他為Ragu 作了完全相同的事情。
今天，若你到超級市場，非常好的那間，
09:14
And today, if you go
to a really good supermarket,
to a really good supermarket,
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你會看到多麼的Ragu
09:16
do you know how many Ragùs there are?
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你知道他們有多少種? 36 種!
09:18
36!
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09:20
In six varieties:
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有六種類別: 乳酪，輕味， 羅布斯托，
09:22
Cheese, Light,
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3050
09:25
Robusto, Rich & Hearty,
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濃厚，世界經典，特別爽脆，田園風味 (笑聲)
09:28
Old World Traditional --
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09:32
Extra-Chunky Garden.
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09:34
(Laughter)
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09:35
That's Howard's doing.
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這是默斯克韋茲貢獻的。這是他給美國人的禮物。
09:37
That is Howard's gift
to the American people.
to the American people.
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2208
09:39
Now why is that important?
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這有什麼重要呢?
09:41
(Laughter)
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09:43
It is, in fact, enormously important.
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事實上它是非常重要。讓我來說明。
09:45
I'll explain to you why.
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09:47
What Howard did is he fundamentally
changed the way the food industry thinks
changed the way the food industry thinks
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默斯克韋茲從根本改變飲食業對
如何滿足我們快樂的想法。
09:51
about making you happy.
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1421
09:53
Assumption number one
in the food industry used to be
in the food industry used to be
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它們以往首先假設
09:56
that the way to find out
what people want to eat,
what people want to eat,
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想要找出人類想吃什麼的方法
09:59
what will make people happy,
is to ask them.
is to ask them.
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或想知道什麼會令他們高興 -- 是要去詢問他們。
10:02
And for years and years and years,
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在很多很多年裡，Ragu 和 Prego會成立
10:04
Ragù and Prego would have focus groups,
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2238
焦點團體,他們會把顧客集合起來問他們，
10:06
and they would sit you down,
and they would say,
and they would say,
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"你想要什麼的義大利麪醬呀? 告訴我你的需求吧。"
10:08
"What do you want in a spaghetti sauce?
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1873
10:10
Tell us what you want
in a spaghetti sauce."
in a spaghetti sauce."
218
585953
2075
在這二、三十年裡 --
10:12
And for all those years -- 20, 30 years --
219
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2924
10:15
through all those focus group sessions,
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591000
1976
通過這些焦點團體，
10:17
no one ever said they wanted extra-chunky.
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593000
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沒有人說他們想要特別爽脆。
10:21
Even though at least a third of them,
deep in their hearts, actually did.
deep in their hearts, actually did.
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儘管當中至少有三分之一人從心底裡想要。
(笑聲)
10:25
(Laughter)
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10:27
People don't know what they want!
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人們不知道他們想要什麼! 對吧?
10:29
As Howard loves to say,
225
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默斯克韋茲喜歡說，"頭腦不知道舌頭的喜好。"
10:31
"The mind knows not
what the tongue wants."
what the tongue wants."
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2752
這是一個謎!
10:33
It's a mystery!
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1152
10:34
(Laughter)
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1004
而最關鍵的一點是 我們了解自己的慾望和口味時
10:35
And a critically important step
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10:38
in understanding
our own desires and tastes
our own desires and tastes
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3331
才發現無法表達自己內心深處的想法
10:41
is to realize that we cannot always
explain what we want, deep down.
explain what we want, deep down.
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例如，如果我問在這房間裡的你們，你們想要怎樣的咖啡，
10:46
If I asked all of you, for example,
in this room, what you want in a coffee,
in this room, what you want in a coffee,
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你會知道你會回答什麼嗎? 每個人都會答，"我要香濃碳燒黑咖啡。"
10:50
you know what you'd say?
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10:51
Every one of you would say,
"I want a dark, rich, hearty roast."
"I want a dark, rich, hearty roast."
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4239
這是人們經常回答的答案。
10:56
It's what people always say
when you ask them.
when you ask them.
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你喜歡哪一種? 香濃碳燒黑咖啡!
10:58
"What do you like?"
"Dark, rich, hearty roast!"
"Dark, rich, hearty roast!"
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2532
究竟你們有多少個百分比的人真的喜歡香濃碳燒黑咖啡?
11:01
What percentage of you actually
like a dark, rich, hearty roast?
like a dark, rich, hearty roast?
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3513
11:04
According to Howard, somewhere
between 25 and 27 percent of you.
between 25 and 27 percent of you.
238
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3048
根據默斯克韋茲，大概介於百分之25 至27。
你們大部份喜歡奶味淡咖啡。
11:08
Most of you like milky, weak coffee.
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2195
11:10
(Laughter)
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645786
1001
11:11
But you will never, ever say
to someone who asks you what you want
to someone who asks you what you want
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3332
但你們永遠不會向問你這問題的人說出你想要的 --
"我想要奶味淡咖啡。"
11:14
that "I want a milky, weak coffee."
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2191
所以這是默斯克韋茲的首要貢獻。
11:17
So that's number one thing
that Howard did.
that Howard did.
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2899
11:21
Number two thing that Howard did
is he made us realize --
is he made us realize --
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3448
第二件默斯克韋茲讓我們明白的事 --
11:24
it's another very critical point --
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660000
1976
這是另一個非常關鍵的點子 --
11:26
he made us realize the importance
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他令我們明白他所謂的橫向分割的重要。
11:28
of what he likes to call
"horizontal segmentation."
"horizontal segmentation."
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2999
11:32
Why is this critical?
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為什麼這是那麼的重要呢? 因為
11:33
Because this is the way the food industry
thought before Howard.
thought before Howard.
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3698
這是飲食業在默斯克韋茲之前的想法。不對嗎?
是他們八零年代初所堅持? 他們對芥末的堅持。
11:37
What were they obsessed with
in the early 80s?
in the early 80s?
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2310
11:39
They were obsessed with mustard.
251
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1540
11:41
In particular, they were obsessed
with the story of Grey Poupon.
with the story of Grey Poupon.
252
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3317
特別是對Grey Poupon 的故事所堅持。 對嗎?
11:44
Used to be, there were two mustards:
French's and Gulden's.
French's and Gulden's.
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以往有兩款芥末。法國味和古爾登味。
它們是什麼? 黃色芥末。 它有什麼?
11:48
What were they? Yellow mustard.
254
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1493
11:49
What's in it?
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1015
黃色芥末種子、薑黃和辣椒粉。 這就是芥末了。
11:50
Yellow mustard seeds,
turmeric, and paprika.
turmeric, and paprika.
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2054
11:52
That was mustard.
257
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1074
11:53
Grey Poupon came along, with a Dijon.
258
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2525
Grey Poupon 就有第戎。不是嗎?
11:56
Right?
259
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1188
比較易揮發的啡色芥末種子、一些白酒，
11:57
Much more volatile brown mustard seed,
some white wine, a nose hit,
some white wine, a nose hit,
260
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5663
和比較刺鼻的芳草。它們用作什麼?
12:03
much more delicate aromatics.
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1938
12:05
And what do they do?
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1015
他們放在一個細小的玻璃瓶裡，有一個美妙的搪瓷標籤。
12:06
They put it in a little tiny glass jar,
with a wonderful enameled label on it,
with a wonderful enameled label on it,
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讓它看上去好像是法國製造但實際上是在加州奧克斯納德所製。
12:11
made it look French,
264
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1074
12:12
even though it's made
in Oxnard, California.
in Oxnard, California.
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12:14
(Laughter)
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1001
原本收取1.5元一瓶八盎司的芥末，
12:15
And instead of charging a dollar fifty
for the eight-ounce bottle,
for the eight-ounce bottle,
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4499
12:19
the way that French's and Gulden's did,
268
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1973
因為法國味和古爾登味，他們決定收取四元。
12:21
they decided to charge four dollars.
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1727
而他們有那些廣告，對嗎?有一個男子駕駛他的勞斯萊斯，
12:23
And they had those ads.
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12:24
With the guy in the Rolls Royce,
eating the Grey Poupon.
eating the Grey Poupon.
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2635
而他正吃著他的Grey Poupon。 另一輛勞斯萊斯駛來，
12:27
Another pulls up, and says,
"Do you have any Grey Poupon?"
"Do you have any Grey Poupon?"
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他便問到，"你有Grey Poupon 嗎?"
整個事件到最後，當他做完這個後，Grey Poupon 起飛!
12:30
And the whole thing, after they did that,
Grey Poupon takes off!
Grey Poupon takes off!
273
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3184
它攻佔芥末業!
12:33
Takes over the mustard business!
274
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1524
而所有人從這得到的教訓是
12:35
And everyone's take-home lesson from that
275
730209
2008
12:37
was that the way to make people happy
276
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4735
要令他人感到高興
12:41
is to give them something
that is more expensive,
that is more expensive,
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就要給予他們一些更昂貴，一些令他們渴望的事物。對吧!
12:45
something to aspire to.
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要他們背棄他們現在所想的，
12:47
It's to make them turn their back
on what they think they like now,
on what they think they like now,
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4143
12:51
and reach out for something
higher up the mustard hierarchy.
higher up the mustard hierarchy.
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3419
去追求一些在芥末業裡更高的層次。
12:54
(Laughter)
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1001
一個更好的芥末。一個更昂貴的芥末。
12:55
A better mustard!
A more expensive mustard!
A more expensive mustard!
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2212
一個更複雜，更有文化和意義的芥末。
12:58
A mustard of more sophistication
and culture and meaning.
and culture and meaning.
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3163
默斯克韋茲看著這並說，這是錯的!
13:01
And Howard looked to that
and said, "That's wrong!"
and said, "That's wrong!"
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芥末是不存在等級。
13:04
Mustard does not exist on a hierarchy.
285
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芥末就好像蕃茄醬一樣只有平行面。
13:07
Mustard exists, just like tomato sauce,
on a horizontal plane.
on a horizontal plane.
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4101
13:11
There is no good mustard or bad mustard.
287
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2739
這裡沒有好的芥末或壞的芥末。
13:14
There is no perfect mustard
or imperfect mustard.
or imperfect mustard.
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這裡沒有完美的芥末或不完美的芥末。
只有不同種類的芥末來迎合不同種類的人。
13:16
There are only different kinds of mustards
that suit different kinds of people.
that suit different kinds of people.
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他從根本解放我們對味覺的想法。
13:21
He fundamentally democratized
the way we think about taste.
the way we think about taste.
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就因為這樣 我們欠默斯克韋茲一個深深的感謝。
13:26
And for that, as well, we owe
Howard Moskowitz a huge vote of thanks.
Howard Moskowitz a huge vote of thanks.
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第三樣默斯克韋茲所做的大概是最重要的。
13:31
Third thing that Howard did,
and perhaps the most important,
and perhaps the most important,
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13:34
is Howard confronted the notion
of the Platonic dish.
of the Platonic dish.
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他對抗柏拉圖菜的概念。(笑聲)
13:37
(Laughter)
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我的意思是
13:38
What do I mean by that?
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13:39
(Laughter)
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在飲食業界裡有很長時期
13:41
For the longest time in the food industry,
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認為只有一種，完美的一種製作食物的方法
13:43
there was a sense that there was one way,
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13:45
a perfect way, to make a dish.
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13:49
You go to Chez Panisse,
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你去到Chez Panisse, 他們會給你紅尾魚生魚片
13:51
they give you the red-tail sashimi
with roasted pumpkin seeds
with roasted pumpkin seeds
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配烤南瓜種子在一個什麼的縮版上。
13:56
in a something something reduction.
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他們不會給你五款縮版。對吧!
13:58
They don't give you five options
on the reduction.
on the reduction.
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14:00
They don't say, "Do you want
the extra-chunky reduction, or ...?"
the extra-chunky reduction, or ...?"
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他們不會說，你喜歡超爽脆縮版或你喜歡那個 -- 不會!
14:04
No!
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你只能得到那個縮版。為什麼? 因為那個在 Chez Panisse 的廚師
14:05
You just get the reduction. Why?
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14:07
Because the chef at Chez Panisse
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對紅尾魚有一份柏拉圖式的概念。
14:08
has a Platonic notion
about red-tail sashimi.
about red-tail sashimi.
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只有這才是紅尾魚的做法
14:11
"This is the way it ought to be."
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14:13
And she serves it that way
time and time again,
time and time again,
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而她一次又一次的用這個方式供應。
14:17
and if you quarrel with her, she will say,
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而若果你跟好爭辯，她會說，
"你知道嗎? 你是錯的! 這是這餐廳料理紅尾魚最好的方式。
14:20
"You know what? You're wrong!
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14:22
This is the best way it ought to be
in this restaurant."
in this restaurant."
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現在這相同的想法亦同樣地激起整個商業飲食業。
14:25
Now that same idea fueled
the commercial food industry as well.
the commercial food industry as well.
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他們有一個概念，柏拉圖式的概念，認為蕃茄醬應有的方式。
14:29
They had a Platonic notion
of what tomato sauce was.
of what tomato sauce was.
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而這個概念怎樣得來? 它原自義大利。
14:32
And where did that come from?
It came from Italy.
It came from Italy.
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14:34
Italian tomato sauce is what?
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義大利蕃茄醬是怎樣的? 它是混合的， 它是稀的。
14:37
It's blended; it's thin.
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蕃茄醬的傳統是稀的。
14:39
The culture of tomato sauce was thin.
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14:41
When we talked about "authentic
tomato sauce" in the 1970s,
tomato sauce" in the 1970s,
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當我們在一九七零年代談到真實的蕃茄醬時，
14:44
we talked about Italian tomato sauce,
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我們會說是義大利蕃茄醬。我們談到最初的Ragus 時，
14:46
we talked about the earliest Ragùs,
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它是沒有可見的固體，不是嗎?
14:48
which had no visible solids, right?
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14:50
Which were thin, you just put a little bit
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它是薄薄的一小層
而它會流到義大利麪的底下。
14:52
and it sunk down to the bottom
of the pasta.
of the pasta.
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就是這樣。但我們為什麼對此執著呢?
14:55
That's what it was.
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14:56
And why were we attached to that?
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因為我們想要令別人開心是
14:57
Because we thought
that what it took to make people happy
that what it took to make people happy
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要供給他們最傳統正宗的蕃茄醬，這是第一點。
15:00
was to provide them with the most
culturally authentic tomato sauce, A.
culturally authentic tomato sauce, A.
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15:05
And B, we thought that if we gave them
the culturally authentic tomato sauce,
the culturally authentic tomato sauce,
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第二點是，你會想如果你給了他們最傳統正宗的蕃茄醬，
他們會很感激。
15:10
then they would embrace it.
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而這樣會令大部份人高興。
15:11
And that's what would please
the maximum number of people.
the maximum number of people.
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我們有這種想法的原因 -- 換句話說，
15:15
In other words,
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在烹飪世界裡的人是尋求烹調的大同世界。
15:17
people in the cooking world
were looking for cooking universals.
were looking for cooking universals.
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他們尋找一個方法去滿足所有人。
15:21
They were looking for one way
to treat all of us.
to treat all of us.
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15:23
And it's good reason for them
to be obsessed
to be obsessed
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他們有很好的理由去堅持這種大同的思維，
15:26
with the idea of universals,
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因為所有科學，從十九世紀至差不多二十世紀，
15:27
because all of science,
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15:29
through the 19th century
and much of the 20th,
and much of the 20th,
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都堅持著大同這個概念
15:31
was obsessed with universals.
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心理學家，醫學家，經濟學家們都有興趣了解
15:32
Psychologists, medical scientists,
economists
economists
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15:37
were all interested
in finding out the rules
in finding out the rules
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管轄我們行為的法則。
15:39
that govern the way all of us behave.
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但這個變了，不對嗎?
15:42
But that changed, right?
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15:43
What is the great revolution
in science of the last 10, 15 years?
in science of the last 10, 15 years?
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在過去十至十五年裡，科學有很大的革命。
這是從尋找大同到了解變異。
15:47
It is the movement
from the search for universals
from the search for universals
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15:50
to the understanding of variability.
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現在在醫學裡我們不一定要知道如何 --
15:53
Now in medical science,
we don't want to know, necessarily,
we don't want to know, necessarily,
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15:56
just how cancer works,
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例如癌症是如何產生。我們想知道你的癌症跟我的癌症有何分別。
15:58
we want to know how your cancer
is different from my cancer.
is different from my cancer.
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16:01
I guess my cancer different
from your cancer.
from your cancer.
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我想我的癌症跟你的癌症是不同的。
16:04
Genetics has opened the door
to the study of human variability.
to the study of human variability.
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基因開啟了人類變異學的門。
16:08
What Howard Moskowitz
was doing was saying,
was doing was saying,
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而默斯克韋茲所做的正引證著
16:10
"This same revolution needs to happen
in the world of tomato sauce."
in the world of tomato sauce."
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蕃茄醬的世界應有這個相同的革命。
16:15
And for that, we owe him
a great vote of thanks.
a great vote of thanks.
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正因為此，我們欠他一個感激。
我將舉最後一個有關變異的例子，就是 -- 噢，對不起。
16:20
I'll give you one last
illustration of variability,
illustration of variability,
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16:22
and that is -- oh, I'm sorry.
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16:24
Howard not only believed that,
but he took it a second step,
but he took it a second step,
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默斯克韋茲不相信此，但他行了另一步，
就是當我們追求的普世的食物原則時，
16:28
which was to say that when we pursue
universal principles in food,
universal principles in food,
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16:33
we aren't just making an error;
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我們不只是作了一個錯誤。我們其實是對自己作出一個重大的傷害。
16:35
we are actually doing ourselves
a massive disservice.
a massive disservice.
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16:38
And the example he used was coffee.
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他所用的例子是咖啡。
咖啡是他作了很多功課的事情，是與雀巢咖啡。
16:41
And coffee is something he did
a lot of work with, with Nescafé.
a lot of work with, with Nescafé.
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16:45
If I were to ask all of you to try
and come up with a brand of coffee --
and come up with a brand of coffee --
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如果我請求在座的各位想出一個咖啡的品牌
-- 一種咖啡，沖泡咖啡 -- 是令你高興的，
16:49
a type of coffee, a brew --
that made all of you happy,
that made all of you happy,
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然後我要求你為那個咖啡評分，
16:52
and then I asked you to rate that coffee,
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在這裡咖啡的平均分數大概應該會是在零至100分中的60分。
16:54
the average score in this room for coffee
would be about 60 on a scale of 0 to 100.
would be about 60 on a scale of 0 to 100.
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16:58
If, however, you allowed me
to break you into coffee clusters,
to break you into coffee clusters,
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如果你容許我把你們分成一小群，
或許三或四個咖啡群，
17:02
maybe three or four coffee clusters,
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而我能為每一個群組沖泡一個獨特的咖啡，
17:04
and I could make coffee just
for each of those individual clusters,
for each of those individual clusters,
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17:08
your scores would go from 60 to 75 or 78.
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你的評分將由60升至75 至78。
17:12
The difference between coffee
at 60 and coffee at 78
at 60 and coffee at 78
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60分的咖啡和78分的咖啡的分別是
那個咖啡能令你抽搐
17:18
is a difference between coffee
that makes you wince,
that makes you wince,
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17:20
and coffee that makes you
deliriously happy.
deliriously happy.
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和令你極其興奮的分別。
17:24
That is the final, and I think
most beautiful lesson,
most beautiful lesson,
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我想這是默斯克韋茲最後而且我想是最美妙的教訓。
17:27
of Howard Moskowitz:
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在容納人類多樣化的同時，
17:29
that in embracing the diversity
of human beings,
of human beings,
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17:32
we will find a surer way
to true happiness.
to true happiness.
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我們找到一個能令我們真正快樂的可靠方法。
17:35
Thank you.
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謝謝。
17:36
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Malcolm Gladwell - WriterDetective of fads and emerging subcultures, chronicler of jobs-you-never-knew-existed, Malcolm Gladwell's work is toppling the popular understanding of bias, crime, food, marketing, race, consumers and intelligence.
Why you should listen
Malcolm Gladwell searches for the counterintuitive in what we all take to be the mundane: cookies, sneakers, pasta sauce. A New Yorker staff writer since 1996, he visits obscure laboratories and infomercial set kitchens as often as the hangouts of freelance cool-hunters -- a sort of pop-R&D gumshoe -- and for that has become a star lecturer and bestselling author.
Sparkling with curiosity, undaunted by difficult research (yet an eloquent, accessible writer), his work uncovers truths hidden in strange data. His always-delightful blog tackles topics from serial killers to steroids in sports, while provocative recent work in the New Yorker sheds new light on the Flynn effect -- the decades-spanning rise in I.Q. scores.
Gladwell has written four books. The Tipping Point, which began as a New Yorker piece, applies the principles of epidemiology to crime (and sneaker sales), while Blink examines the unconscious processes that allow the mind to "thin slice" reality -- and make decisions in the blink of an eye. His third book, Outliers, questions the inevitabilities of success and identifies the relation of success to nature versus nurture. The newest work, What the Dog Saw and Other Adventures, is an anthology of his New Yorker contributions.
He says: "There is more going on beneath the surface than we think, and more going on in little, finite moments of time than we would guess."
Malcolm Gladwell | Speaker | TED.com