ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Suki Kim - Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book.

Why you should listen

Suki Kim is the only writer to ever go undercover into North Korea to write a book from the inside. Since 2002, South Korean-born Kim travelled to North Korea, witnessing both Kim Jong-Il's 60th birthday celebration and his death at age 69 in 2011. 

Her work sheds a new light on the understanding of the North Korean society by delving into its day-to-day life and provides unprecedented insights into the psychology of its ruling class, about whom the world knows very little.

Kim's novel, The Interpreter, was a finalist for a PEN Hemingway Prize, and her nonfiction has appeared in The New York Times, Harper's and The New York Review of Books. She is the author of the investigation Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite.

 

More profile about the speaker
Suki Kim | Speaker | TED.com
TED2015

Suki Kim: This is what it's like to go undercover in North Korea

金苏琪: 在朝鲜教书是怎样一种体验

Filmed:
4,696,959 views

金苏琪在朝鲜一所精英学校里担任了六个月朝鲜未来领导人的英语老师——同时编写一本关于世界上最压抑的政权之一的书。当她帮助学生理解像“真相”和“批判性思维”这些概念时,她诧异道:教导这些学生去寻求真相会置他们于险境吗?(这个演讲取自Pop-up杂志由嘉宾组织监管的TED2015环节:popupmagazin.com或推特@popupmag)
- Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
In 2011, during the final最后 six months个月
of Kim Jong-Il's金正日 life,
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2011年,金正日在世的最后6个月期间,
00:19
I lived生活 undercover秘密 in North Korea韩国.
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我在朝鲜当卧底
00:23
I was born天生 and raised上调
in South Korea韩国, their enemy敌人.
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我在韩国出生长大,朝鲜的敌国
00:28
I live生活 in America美国, their other enemy敌人.
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我居住在美国,朝鲜的另一个敌国
00:32
Since以来 2002, I had visited参观
North Korea韩国 a few少数 times.
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自从2002年,我访问朝鲜数次
00:36
And I had come to realize实现
that to write about it with any meaning含义,
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我认识到,如果要写出它任何的内涵,
00:42
or to understand理解 the place地点
beyond the regime's政权 propaganda宣传,
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或者想要越过政权的宣传,去深度了解这个国度,
00:47
the only option选项 was total immersion浸没.
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唯一的办法就是沉浸其中
00:54
So I posed构成 as a teacher老师 and a missionary传教士
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于是,我充当老师和传教士的角色,
00:58
at an all-male所有男性 university大学 in Pyongyang平壤.
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生活在平壤的一个全男子大学
01:06
The Pyongyang平壤 University大学
of Science科学 and Technology技术
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平壤科技大学
01:10
was founded成立 by Evangelical福音 Christians基督徒
who cooperate合作 with the regime政权
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是福音派基督徒和政权领导人联合创办的
01:15
to educate教育 the sons儿子
of the North Korean朝鲜的 elite原种,
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为了教育朝鲜精英的子孙,
01:21
without proselytizing传教,
which哪一个 is a capital首都 crime犯罪 there.
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禁止传教,因为在朝鲜这是一个死罪
01:27
The students学生们 were 270 young年轻 men男人,
expected预期 to be the future未来 leaders领导者
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学校里有270名男生,有望成为未来的领导者
01:33
of the most isolated孤立 and brutal野蛮
dictatorship专政 in existence存在.
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统治全球最孤立,残酷的独裁国家
01:40
When I arrived到达, they became成为 my students学生们.
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当我到达时,他们就是我的学生们了
01:47
2011 was a special特别 year,
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2011是非常特殊的一年
01:49
marking印记 the 100th anniversary周年 of the birth分娩
of North Korea's韩国的 original原版的 Great Leader领导,
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因为是朝鲜原伟大领袖,金日成的诞辰
01:55
Kim Il-Sung金日成.
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100周年
01:57
To celebrate庆祝 the occasion场合, the regime政权
shut关闭 down all universities高校,
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为了庆祝这个场合,朝鲜政权关闭了所有的大学
02:03
and sent发送 students学生们 off to the fields领域
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并且派学生去实地宣传
02:06
to build建立 the DPRK's朝鲜 much-heralded大肆赞扬 ideal理想
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朝鲜大肆赞扬的思想:
02:10
as the world's世界 most powerful强大
and prosperous繁荣 nation国家.
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他们是世界上最强大和富强的国家
02:16
My students学生们 were the only ones那些
spared幸免 from that fate命运.
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我的学生是唯一幸免的人
02:21
North Korea韩国 is a gulag古拉格 posing冒充 as a nation国家.
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朝鲜是古拉格(前苏联囚禁营),却冒充一个国家
02:26
Everything there
is about the Great Leader领导.
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那里的一切都是赞扬伟大领袖的
02:28
Every一切 book, every一切 newspaper报纸 article文章,
every一切 song歌曲, every一切 TV电视 program程序 --
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每一本书,每一篇报道,每一首歌,每一个电视节目--
02:33
there is just one subject学科.
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都只有一个话题
02:35
The flowers花卉 are named命名 after him,
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花是以他的名字命名
02:37
the mountains are carved with his slogans口号.
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山脉上刻着他的口号
02:40
Every一切 citizen公民 wears穿 the badge徽章
of the Great Leader领导 at all times.
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每一个市民每时每刻都戴着伟大领袖的徽章
02:45
Even their calendar日历 system系统 begins开始
with the birth分娩 of Kim Il-Sung金日成.
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朝鲜的日历甚至都是从金日成的诞辰算起
02:51
The school学校 was a heavily严重 guarded守卫
prison监狱, posing冒充 as a campus校园.
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学校就是一个戒备森严的监狱,冒充是一个校园
02:56
Teachers教师 could only leave离开 on group outings郊游
accompanied伴随着 by an official官方 minder看守者.
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老师只能在守卫伴随的团体出游才能离开学校
03:03
Even then, our trips旅行 were limited有限
to sanctioned制裁 national国民 monuments纪念碑
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即使是这样,我们的旅行也仅限于被批准的庆祝
03:09
celebrating庆祝 the Great Leader领导.
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伟大领袖的国家纪念碑
03:12
The students学生们 were not allowed允许
to leave离开 the campus校园,
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学生不允许离开校园
03:16
or communicate通信 with their parents父母.
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或者与家长沟通
03:20
Their days were meticulously精心 mapped映射 out,
and any free自由 time they had
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每天的安排都是精心计划好的,任何的空闲时间
03:24
was devoted忠诚 to honoring表彰
their Great Leader领导.
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都被用来纪念他们的伟大领袖
03:29
Lesson plans计划 had to meet遇到 the approval赞同
of North Korean朝鲜的 staff员工,
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教案都必须被朝鲜部门批准
03:34
every一切 class was recorded记录 and reported报道 on,
every一切 room房间 was bugged窃听,
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每节课都被记录汇报,每一个房间都被窃听
03:38
and every一切 conversation会话, overheard偷听.
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每一个对话都会被人听到
03:42
Every一切 blank空白 space空间 was covered覆盖 with the
portraits画像 of Kim Il-Sung金日成 and Kim Jong-Il金正日,
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每一个空间和间隙都被金日成和金正日的肖像填满
03:48
like everywhere到处 else其他 in North Korea韩国.
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朝鲜的每一个角落都是如此
03:53
We were never allowed允许
to discuss讨论 the outside world世界.
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我们被禁止讨论外面的世界
03:55
As students学生们 of science科学 and technology技术,
many许多 of them were computer电脑 majors专业
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作为研究科学和科技的学生,很多主修计算机专业,
04:01
but they did not know
the existence存在 of the Internet互联网.
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但是他们却不知道互联网的存在
04:04
They had never heard听说
of Mark标记 Zuckerberg扎克伯格 or Steve史蒂夫 Jobs工作.
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他们从未听说过马克·扎克伯格或者史蒂夫·乔布斯
04:09
FacebookFacebook的, Twitter推特 -- none没有 of those things
would have meant意味着 a thing.
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脸谱网,推特--他们全然不知
04:14
And I could not tell them.
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我也不能告诉他们
04:18
I went there looking for truth真相.
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我去那里寻求真相
04:22
But where do you even start开始
when an entire整个 nation's国家 ideology思想,
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但是你又从何开始呢?当整个国家的思想
04:25
my students'学生们' day-to-day日复一日 realities现实,
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我的学生的日常面对的现实,
04:27
and even my own拥有 position位置
at the universities高校,
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甚至我在大学的职位
04:31
were all built内置 on lies?
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全都建立在谎言上?
04:37
I started开始 with a game游戏.
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我先和学生们做了一个游戏
04:39
We played发挥 "Truth真相 and Lie谎言."
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我们玩 “真相和谎言”
04:42
A volunteer志愿者 would write a sentence句子
on the chalkboard黑板,
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一个人志愿在黑板上写下一句话,
04:45
and the other students学生们 had to guess猜测
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另一个学生需要猜
04:48
whether是否 it was a truth真相 or a lie谎言.
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这句话是真相还是谎言
04:51
Once一旦 a student学生 wrote, "I visited参观
China中国 last year on vacation假期,"
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有一次,我的一个学生写道:“我去年到中国去度假。”
04:55
and everyone大家 shouted喝道, "Lie谎言!"
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每个人都大喊:“说谎!”
04:59
They all knew知道 this wasn't possible可能.
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他们都知道这是不可能的
05:01
Virtually实质上 no North Korean朝鲜的 is allowed允许
to leave离开 the country国家.
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朝鲜人是从来不能离开他们的国家的
05:05
Even traveling旅行 within their own拥有 country国家
requires要求 a travel旅行 pass通过.
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即使是在朝鲜旅游,也需要一个通行证
05:12
I had hoped希望 that this game游戏 would reveal揭示
some truth真相 about my students学生们,
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我希望这个游戏能让我看出学生的真面目,
05:17
because they lie谎言 so often经常 and so easily容易,
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因为他们经常轻易地撒谎
05:20
whether是否 about the mythical神话
accomplishments成就 of their Great Leader领导,
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无论是关于他们伟大领袖的虚构的成就,
05:25
or the strange奇怪 claim要求 that they cloned克隆
a rabbit兔子 as fifth第五 graders平地机.
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还是声称他们在五年级克隆了一只兔子
05:31
The difference区别 between之间 truth真相 and lies
seemed似乎 at times hazy朦胧 to them.
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真相和谎言的区别对他们来说很含糊
05:36
It took me a while to understand理解
the different不同 types类型 of lies;
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我过了一段时间才能分辨出不同类型的谎言
05:40
they lie谎言 to shield屏蔽 their system系统
from the world世界,
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他们撒谎去隐藏他们的统治系统
05:43
or they were taught lies,
and were just regurgitating反刍 them.
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有时,他们被灌输谎言,只是重复他们听到的话
05:47
Or, at moments瞬间, they lied说谎 out of habit习惯.
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或者,有时候,他们习惯性地撒谎
05:52
But if all they have ever known已知 were lies,
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但是如果他们所知道的一切都是谎言,
05:56
how could we expect期望 them to be otherwise除此以外?
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我们怎么能指望他们去改变呢?
06:01
Next下一个, I tried试着 to teach them essay文章 writing写作.
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接下来,我试图教他们写论文
06:04
But that turned转身 out to be
nearly几乎 impossible不可能.
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但是这几乎不可能
06:07
Essays随笔 are about coming未来 up with
one's那些 own拥有 thesis论文,
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论文需要每个人构思得出自己的论点
06:11
and making制造 an evidence-based循证
argument论据 to prove证明 it.
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并且运用证据写出论据去证明观点
06:16
These students学生们, however然而, were
simply只是 told what to think,
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然而这些学生的思维从来都是被命令的
06:19
and they obeyed遵命.
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他们也一直服从
06:21
In their world世界, critical危急 thinking思维
was not allowed允许.
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在他们的世界里,批判性思维是不允许的
06:26
I also gave them the weekly每周 assignment分配
of writing写作 a personal个人 letter,
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我每周的作业是让他们写一封信,
06:31
to anybody任何人.
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可以写给任何人
06:33
It took a long time, but eventually终于
some of them began开始 to write
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过了很长时间,才有人提笔开始
06:37
to their mothers母亲, their friends朋友,
their girlfriends女友.
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写信给妈妈,朋友,女友
06:42
Although虽然 those were just homework家庭作业,
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尽管这都只是作业,
06:45
and would never reach达到
their intended recipients收件人,
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这些信也从来不会到收件人的手中,
06:49
my students学生们 slowly慢慢地 began开始 to reveal揭示
their true真正 feelings情怀 in them.
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我的学生开始慢慢地展现出他们的内心感受
06:54
They wrote that they were fed美联储
up with the sameness千篇一律 of everything.
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他们写道他们对一切的格式化忍无可忍了
06:59
They were worried担心 about their future未来.
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他们很担心自己的未来
07:01
In those letters, they rarely很少 ever
mentioned提到 their Great Leader领导.
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在那些信中,他们很少提到他们的伟大领袖
07:10
I was spending开支 all of my time
with these young年轻 men男人.
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我整天和学生们相处
07:14
We all ate meals together一起,
played发挥 basketball篮球 together一起.
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我们一起吃饭,一起打篮球
07:19
I often经常 called them gentlemen绅士,
which哪一个 made制作 them giggle傻笑.
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我经常称他们 “绅士”, 这让他们暗笑
07:24
They blushed脸红 at the mention提到 of girls女孩.
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他们谈到女生就很害羞
07:28
And I came来了 to adore崇拜 them.
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我逐渐喜欢我的学生
07:30
And watching观看 them open打开 up
even in the tiniest最小的 of ways方法,
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看到他们打开心扉,哪怕就那么一点点,
07:34
was deeply moving移动.
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都十分地感人
07:37
But something also felt wrong错误.
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但是总感觉怪怪的
07:40
During those months个月
of living活的 in their world世界,
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生活在他们的世界中的几个月期间,
07:43
I often经常 wondered想知道 if the truth真相 would,
in fact事实, improve提高 their lives生活.
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我经常在想,知道真相会不会让他们的生活变得更好
07:51
I wanted so much to tell them the truth真相,
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我十分想告诉他们真相,
07:54
of their country国家 and of the outside world世界,
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他们的国家以及外面的世界的真相
07:58
where Arab阿拉伯 youth青年 were turning车削
their rotten regime政权 inside out,
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阿拉伯青年正在把他们腐败的政权翻得底朝天,
08:02
using运用 the power功率 of social社会 media媒体,
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凭靠着社交媒体的力量,
08:04
where everyone大家 except them was
connected连接的 through通过 the world世界 wide web卷筒纸,
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除了朝鲜,全世界的人们都通过互联网彼此相连,
08:08
which哪一个 wasn't worldwide全世界 after all.
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终究不是全世界的人能够这样
08:13
But for them, the truth真相 was dangerous危险.
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但是对他们而言,真相是危险的
08:18
By encouraging鼓舞人心的 them to run after it,
I was putting them at risk风险 --
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鼓励他们寻求真相就是把他们处于危险境地--
08:23
of persecution迫害,
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他们可能会遭到迫害,
08:26
of heartbreak心碎.
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他们可能会被痛苦折磨
08:30
When you're not allowed允许 to express表现
anything in the open打开,
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当你不能随意表达自己的想法时,
08:33
you become成为 good at reading
what is unspoken.
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你就会擅长读出潜在的含义
08:37
In one of their personal个人 letters to me,
a student学生 wrote that he understood了解
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在我的一个学生的信件中,他写道他懂得
08:42
why I always called them gentlemen绅士.
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为什么我说他们是 “绅士”,
08:46
It was because I was wishing希望 them
to be gentle温和 in life, he said.
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因为我希望他们能平和地面对生活
08:54
On my last day in December十二月 of 2011,
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2011年的12月份,我在朝鲜的最后一天,
08:57
the day Kim Jong-Il's金正日 death死亡 was announced公布,
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金正日的死讯被公布了,
09:00
their world世界 shattered破灭.
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他们的世界破碎了
09:04
I had to leave离开 without a proper正确 goodbye再见.
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我没有正式地告别就走了
09:08
But I think they knew知道
how sad伤心 I was for them.
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但是我觉得他们知道我为他们感到伤心
09:12
Once一旦, toward the end结束 of my stay,
a student学生 said to me,
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在我快要离开之前,一个学生告诉我,
09:16
"Professor教授, we never think of you
as being存在 different不同 from us.
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“老师,我们从来没有认为你和我们是不同的”
09:21
Our circumstances情况 are different不同,
but you're the same相同 as us.
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“我们的境遇不同,但是你和我们都一样”
09:27
We want you to know that we truly
think of you as being存在 the same相同."
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“我们想让您知道我们一直把您看做我们的一份子”
09:37
Today今天, if I could respond响应
to my students学生们 with a letter of my own拥有,
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今天,如果我能写一封信回复我的学生们,
09:41
which哪一个 is of course课程 impossible不可能,
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当然这是不可能的,
09:44
I would tell them this:
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我会告诉他们:
09:49
"My dear gentlemen绅士,
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“亲爱的绅士们,"
09:52
It's been a bit over three years年份
since以来 I last saw you.
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"我上次见到你们已经是3年前了,"
09:55
And now, you must必须 be 22 --
maybe even as old as 23.
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“现在你们肯定已经过了22,23岁了”
10:00
At our final最后 class, I asked you
if there was anything you wanted.
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“在最后一堂课上,我问你们有没有任何想要的东西”
10:05
The only wish希望 you expressed表达,
the only thing you ever asked of me
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你们唯一的心愿,唯一问我的一件事
10:09
in all those months个月 we spent花费 together一起,
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在我们一起度过的几个月中,
10:12
was for me to speak说话 to you in Korean朝鲜的.
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就是让我用朝鲜语跟你们对话
10:15
Just once一旦.
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就一次
10:17
I was there to teach you English英语;
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我到那里去教你们英语,
10:19
you knew知道 it wasn't allowed允许.
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你们知道这是不允许的
10:22
But I understood了解 then, you wanted
to share分享 that bond of our mother母亲 tongue.
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但是我懂得你们想分享我们母语的纽带
10:30
I called you my gentlemen绅士,
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我称你们为 “绅士”,
10:33
but I don't know if being存在 gentle温和
in Kim Jong-Un's金正云的 merciless无情 North Korea韩国
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但是我不知道在金正恩统治的残忍的朝鲜,性情温和
10:37
is a good thing.
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是否是一件好事
10:39
I don't want you to lead a revolution革命 --
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我不想你们引领一场革命 --
10:42
let some other young年轻 person do it.
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2004
让别的年轻人去做吧
10:45
The rest休息 of the world世界 might威力 casually胡乱
encourage鼓励 or even expect期望
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世界可能会鼓励,甚至期待
10:48
some sort分类 of North Korean朝鲜的 Spring弹簧,
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朝鲜的跃进
10:50
but I don't want you to do anything risky有风险,
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但是我不希望你们做任何冒险的事,
10:53
because I know in your world世界,
someone有人 is always watching观看.
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因为我知道在你们的世界里,总有人观察你们的一举一动
10:59
I don't want to imagine想像
what might威力 happen发生 to you.
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我不想去想象你们可能会有怎样的遭遇
11:02
If my attempts尝试 to reach达到 you have
inspired启发 something new in you,
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如果我所做的事启发了你,
11:07
I would rather you forget忘记 me.
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我宁愿你们忘了我
11:09
Become成为 soldiers士兵 of your Great Leader领导,
and live生活 long, safe安全 lives生活.
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成为你们伟大领袖的士兵,生活安稳,长寿
11:16
You once一旦 asked me if I thought
your city of Pyongyang平壤 was beautiful美丽,
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你们曾经问我觉得平壤很美丽吗,
11:21
and I could not answer回答 truthfully如实 then.
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我当时不能如实回答
11:25
But I know why you asked.
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但是我知道你们为什么问这个问题
11:27
I know that it was important重要 for you
to hear that I, your teacher老师,
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我知道这个对你们很重要,要从我,你们的老师的口中,
11:32
the one who has seen看到 the world世界
that you are forbidden被禁止 from,
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一个能看到你们看不到的世界的人,
11:35
declare宣布 your city as the most beautiful美丽.
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听到你们的城市是最美丽的
11:41
I know hearing听力 that would make
your lives生活 there a bit more bearable可忍受的,
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我知道听到这句会让你们的生活更加好受一些
11:46
but no, I don't find
your capital首都 beautiful美丽.
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但是,不,我不觉得你们的首都很美丽
11:50
Not because it's monotone单调 and concrete具体,
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不是因为它的单调无趣或随处可见的混凝土,
11:53
but because of what it symbolizes象征着:
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而是它所象征的意义;
11:55
a monster怪物 that feeds供稿 off
the rest休息 of the country国家,
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一个侵蚀自己国家的怪兽
12:00
where citizens公民 are soldiers士兵 and slaves奴隶.
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它的百姓都是士兵和奴隶
12:05
All I see there is darkness黑暗.
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我看到的一切都是黑暗的
12:09
But it's your home, so I cannot不能 hate讨厌 it.
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但是那是你们的家,我不能憎恨它
12:13
And I hope希望 instead代替 that you,
my lovely可爱 young年轻 gentlemen绅士,
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我依旧希望你们,我的绅士们,
12:18
will one day help make it beautiful美丽.
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能有一天使它变得美丽
12:22
Thank you.
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谢谢!
12:24
(Applause掌声)
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(掌声)
Reviewed by Lee Li

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Suki Kim - Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book.

Why you should listen

Suki Kim is the only writer to ever go undercover into North Korea to write a book from the inside. Since 2002, South Korean-born Kim travelled to North Korea, witnessing both Kim Jong-Il's 60th birthday celebration and his death at age 69 in 2011. 

Her work sheds a new light on the understanding of the North Korean society by delving into its day-to-day life and provides unprecedented insights into the psychology of its ruling class, about whom the world knows very little.

Kim's novel, The Interpreter, was a finalist for a PEN Hemingway Prize, and her nonfiction has appeared in The New York Times, Harper's and The New York Review of Books. She is the author of the investigation Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite.

 

More profile about the speaker
Suki Kim | Speaker | TED.com