TED2015
Suki Kim: This is what it's like to go undercover in North Korea
金苏琪: 在朝鲜教书是怎样一种体验
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金苏琪在朝鲜一所精英学校里担任了六个月朝鲜未来领导人的英语老师——同时编写一本关于世界上最压抑的政权之一的书。当她帮助学生理解像“真相”和“批判性思维”这些概念时，她诧异道：教导这些学生去寻求真相会置他们于险境吗？（这个演讲取自Pop-up杂志由嘉宾组织监管的TED2015环节：popupmagazin.com或推特@popupmag）
Suki Kim - Writer
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book. Full bio
Suki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
In 2011, during the final six months
of Kim Jong-Il's life,
of Kim Jong-Il's life,
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2011年，金正日在世的最后6个月期间，
00:19
I lived undercover in North Korea.
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我在朝鲜当卧底
00:23
I was born and raised
in South Korea, their enemy.
in South Korea, their enemy.
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我在韩国出生长大，朝鲜的敌国
00:28
I live in America, their other enemy.
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我居住在美国，朝鲜的另一个敌国
00:32
Since 2002, I had visited
North Korea a few times.
North Korea a few times.
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自从2002年，我访问朝鲜数次
00:36
And I had come to realize
that to write about it with any meaning,
that to write about it with any meaning,
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我认识到，如果要写出它任何的内涵，
00:42
or to understand the place
beyond the regime's propaganda,
beyond the regime's propaganda,
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或者想要越过政权的宣传，去深度了解这个国度，
00:47
the only option was total immersion.
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唯一的办法就是沉浸其中
00:54
So I posed as a teacher and a missionary
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于是，我充当老师和传教士的角色，
00:58
at an all-male university in Pyongyang.
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生活在平壤的一个全男子大学
01:06
The Pyongyang University
of Science and Technology
of Science and Technology
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平壤科技大学
01:10
was founded by Evangelical Christians
who cooperate with the regime
who cooperate with the regime
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是福音派基督徒和政权领导人联合创办的
01:15
to educate the sons
of the North Korean elite,
of the North Korean elite,
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为了教育朝鲜精英的子孙，
01:21
without proselytizing,
which is a capital crime there.
which is a capital crime there.
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禁止传教，因为在朝鲜这是一个死罪
01:27
The students were 270 young men,
expected to be the future leaders
expected to be the future leaders
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学校里有270名男生，有望成为未来的领导者
01:33
of the most isolated and brutal
dictatorship in existence.
dictatorship in existence.
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统治全球最孤立，残酷的独裁国家
01:40
When I arrived, they became my students.
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当我到达时，他们就是我的学生们了
01:47
2011 was a special year,
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2011是非常特殊的一年
01:49
marking the 100th anniversary of the birth
of North Korea's original Great Leader,
of North Korea's original Great Leader,
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因为是朝鲜原伟大领袖，金日成的诞辰
01:55
Kim Il-Sung.
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100周年
01:57
To celebrate the occasion, the regime
shut down all universities,
shut down all universities,
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为了庆祝这个场合，朝鲜政权关闭了所有的大学
02:03
and sent students off to the fields
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并且派学生去实地宣传
02:06
to build the DPRK's much-heralded ideal
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朝鲜大肆赞扬的思想：
02:10
as the world's most powerful
and prosperous nation.
and prosperous nation.
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他们是世界上最强大和富强的国家
02:16
My students were the only ones
spared from that fate.
spared from that fate.
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我的学生是唯一幸免的人
02:21
North Korea is a gulag posing as a nation.
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朝鲜是古拉格（前苏联囚禁营），却冒充一个国家
02:26
Everything there
is about the Great Leader.
is about the Great Leader.
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那里的一切都是赞扬伟大领袖的
02:28
Every book, every newspaper article,
every song, every TV program --
every song, every TV program --
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每一本书，每一篇报道，每一首歌，每一个电视节目--
02:33
there is just one subject.
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都只有一个话题
02:35
The flowers are named after him,
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花是以他的名字命名
02:37
the mountains are carved with his slogans.
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山脉上刻着他的口号
02:40
Every citizen wears the badge
of the Great Leader at all times.
of the Great Leader at all times.
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每一个市民每时每刻都戴着伟大领袖的徽章
02:45
Even their calendar system begins
with the birth of Kim Il-Sung.
with the birth of Kim Il-Sung.
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朝鲜的日历甚至都是从金日成的诞辰算起
02:51
The school was a heavily guarded
prison, posing as a campus.
prison, posing as a campus.
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学校就是一个戒备森严的监狱，冒充是一个校园
02:56
Teachers could only leave on group outings
accompanied by an official minder.
accompanied by an official minder.
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老师只能在守卫伴随的团体出游才能离开学校
03:03
Even then, our trips were limited
to sanctioned national monuments
to sanctioned national monuments
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即使是这样，我们的旅行也仅限于被批准的庆祝
03:09
celebrating the Great Leader.
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伟大领袖的国家纪念碑
03:12
The students were not allowed
to leave the campus,
to leave the campus,
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学生不允许离开校园
03:16
or communicate with their parents.
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或者与家长沟通
03:20
Their days were meticulously mapped out,
and any free time they had
and any free time they had
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每天的安排都是精心计划好的，任何的空闲时间
03:24
was devoted to honoring
their Great Leader.
their Great Leader.
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都被用来纪念他们的伟大领袖
03:29
Lesson plans had to meet the approval
of North Korean staff,
of North Korean staff,
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教案都必须被朝鲜部门批准
03:34
every class was recorded and reported on,
every room was bugged,
every room was bugged,
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每节课都被记录汇报，每一个房间都被窃听
03:38
and every conversation, overheard.
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每一个对话都会被人听到
03:42
Every blank space was covered with the
portraits of Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il,
portraits of Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il,
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每一个空间和间隙都被金日成和金正日的肖像填满
03:48
like everywhere else in North Korea.
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朝鲜的每一个角落都是如此
03:53
We were never allowed
to discuss the outside world.
to discuss the outside world.
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我们被禁止讨论外面的世界
03:55
As students of science and technology,
many of them were computer majors
many of them were computer majors
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作为研究科学和科技的学生，很多主修计算机专业，
04:01
but they did not know
the existence of the Internet.
the existence of the Internet.
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但是他们却不知道互联网的存在
04:04
They had never heard
of Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs.
of Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs.
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他们从未听说过马克·扎克伯格或者史蒂夫·乔布斯
04:09
Facebook, Twitter -- none of those things
would have meant a thing.
would have meant a thing.
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脸谱网，推特--他们全然不知
04:14
And I could not tell them.
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我也不能告诉他们
04:18
I went there looking for truth.
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我去那里寻求真相
04:22
But where do you even start
when an entire nation's ideology,
when an entire nation's ideology,
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但是你又从何开始呢？当整个国家的思想
04:25
my students' day-to-day realities,
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我的学生的日常面对的现实，
04:27
and even my own position
at the universities,
at the universities,
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甚至我在大学的职位
04:31
were all built on lies?
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全都建立在谎言上？
04:37
I started with a game.
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我先和学生们做了一个游戏
04:39
We played "Truth and Lie."
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我们玩 “真相和谎言”
04:42
A volunteer would write a sentence
on the chalkboard,
on the chalkboard,
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一个人志愿在黑板上写下一句话，
04:45
and the other students had to guess
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另一个学生需要猜
04:48
whether it was a truth or a lie.
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这句话是真相还是谎言
04:51
Once a student wrote, "I visited
China last year on vacation,"
China last year on vacation,"
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有一次，我的一个学生写道：“我去年到中国去度假。”
04:55
and everyone shouted, "Lie!"
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每个人都大喊：“说谎！”
04:59
They all knew this wasn't possible.
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他们都知道这是不可能的
05:01
Virtually no North Korean is allowed
to leave the country.
to leave the country.
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朝鲜人是从来不能离开他们的国家的
05:05
Even traveling within their own country
requires a travel pass.
requires a travel pass.
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即使是在朝鲜旅游，也需要一个通行证
05:12
I had hoped that this game would reveal
some truth about my students,
some truth about my students,
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我希望这个游戏能让我看出学生的真面目，
05:17
because they lie so often and so easily,
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因为他们经常轻易地撒谎
05:20
whether about the mythical
accomplishments of their Great Leader,
accomplishments of their Great Leader,
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无论是关于他们伟大领袖的虚构的成就，
05:25
or the strange claim that they cloned
a rabbit as fifth graders.
a rabbit as fifth graders.
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还是声称他们在五年级克隆了一只兔子
05:31
The difference between truth and lies
seemed at times hazy to them.
seemed at times hazy to them.
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真相和谎言的区别对他们来说很含糊
05:36
It took me a while to understand
the different types of lies;
the different types of lies;
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我过了一段时间才能分辨出不同类型的谎言
05:40
they lie to shield their system
from the world,
from the world,
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他们撒谎去隐藏他们的统治系统
05:43
or they were taught lies,
and were just regurgitating them.
and were just regurgitating them.
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有时，他们被灌输谎言，只是重复他们听到的话
05:47
Or, at moments, they lied out of habit.
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或者，有时候，他们习惯性地撒谎
05:52
But if all they have ever known were lies,
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但是如果他们所知道的一切都是谎言，
05:56
how could we expect them to be otherwise?
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我们怎么能指望他们去改变呢？
06:01
Next, I tried to teach them essay writing.
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接下来，我试图教他们写论文
06:04
But that turned out to be
nearly impossible.
nearly impossible.
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但是这几乎不可能
06:07
Essays are about coming up with
one's own thesis,
one's own thesis,
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论文需要每个人构思得出自己的论点
06:11
and making an evidence-based
argument to prove it.
argument to prove it.
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并且运用证据写出论据去证明观点
06:16
These students, however, were
simply told what to think,
simply told what to think,
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然而这些学生的思维从来都是被命令的
06:19
and they obeyed.
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他们也一直服从
06:21
In their world, critical thinking
was not allowed.
was not allowed.
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在他们的世界里，批判性思维是不允许的
06:26
I also gave them the weekly assignment
of writing a personal letter,
of writing a personal letter,
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我每周的作业是让他们写一封信，
06:31
to anybody.
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可以写给任何人
06:33
It took a long time, but eventually
some of them began to write
some of them began to write
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过了很长时间，才有人提笔开始
06:37
to their mothers, their friends,
their girlfriends.
their girlfriends.
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写信给妈妈，朋友，女友
06:42
Although those were just homework,
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尽管这都只是作业，
06:45
and would never reach
their intended recipients,
their intended recipients,
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这些信也从来不会到收件人的手中，
06:49
my students slowly began to reveal
their true feelings in them.
their true feelings in them.
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我的学生开始慢慢地展现出他们的内心感受
06:54
They wrote that they were fed
up with the sameness of everything.
up with the sameness of everything.
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他们写道他们对一切的格式化忍无可忍了
06:59
They were worried about their future.
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他们很担心自己的未来
07:01
In those letters, they rarely ever
mentioned their Great Leader.
mentioned their Great Leader.
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在那些信中，他们很少提到他们的伟大领袖
07:10
I was spending all of my time
with these young men.
with these young men.
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我整天和学生们相处
07:14
We all ate meals together,
played basketball together.
played basketball together.
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我们一起吃饭，一起打篮球
07:19
I often called them gentlemen,
which made them giggle.
which made them giggle.
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我经常称他们 “绅士”， 这让他们暗笑
07:24
They blushed at the mention of girls.
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他们谈到女生就很害羞
07:28
And I came to adore them.
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我逐渐喜欢我的学生
07:30
And watching them open up
even in the tiniest of ways,
even in the tiniest of ways,
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看到他们打开心扉，哪怕就那么一点点，
07:34
was deeply moving.
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都十分地感人
07:37
But something also felt wrong.
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但是总感觉怪怪的
07:40
During those months
of living in their world,
of living in their world,
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生活在他们的世界中的几个月期间，
07:43
I often wondered if the truth would,
in fact, improve their lives.
in fact, improve their lives.
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我经常在想，知道真相会不会让他们的生活变得更好
07:51
I wanted so much to tell them the truth,
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我十分想告诉他们真相，
07:54
of their country and of the outside world,
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他们的国家以及外面的世界的真相
07:58
where Arab youth were turning
their rotten regime inside out,
their rotten regime inside out,
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阿拉伯青年正在把他们腐败的政权翻得底朝天，
08:02
using the power of social media,
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凭靠着社交媒体的力量，
08:04
where everyone except them was
connected through the world wide web,
connected through the world wide web,
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除了朝鲜，全世界的人们都通过互联网彼此相连，
08:08
which wasn't worldwide after all.
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终究不是全世界的人能够这样
08:13
But for them, the truth was dangerous.
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但是对他们而言，真相是危险的
08:18
By encouraging them to run after it,
I was putting them at risk --
I was putting them at risk --
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鼓励他们寻求真相就是把他们处于危险境地--
08:23
of persecution,
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他们可能会遭到迫害，
08:26
of heartbreak.
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他们可能会被痛苦折磨
08:30
When you're not allowed to express
anything in the open,
anything in the open,
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当你不能随意表达自己的想法时，
08:33
you become good at reading
what is unspoken.
what is unspoken.
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你就会擅长读出潜在的含义
08:37
In one of their personal letters to me,
a student wrote that he understood
a student wrote that he understood
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在我的一个学生的信件中，他写道他懂得
08:42
why I always called them gentlemen.
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为什么我说他们是 “绅士”，
08:46
It was because I was wishing them
to be gentle in life, he said.
to be gentle in life, he said.
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因为我希望他们能平和地面对生活
08:54
On my last day in December of 2011,
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2011年的12月份，我在朝鲜的最后一天，
08:57
the day Kim Jong-Il's death was announced,
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金正日的死讯被公布了，
09:00
their world shattered.
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他们的世界破碎了
09:04
I had to leave without a proper goodbye.
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我没有正式地告别就走了
09:08
But I think they knew
how sad I was for them.
how sad I was for them.
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但是我觉得他们知道我为他们感到伤心
09:12
Once, toward the end of my stay,
a student said to me,
a student said to me,
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在我快要离开之前，一个学生告诉我，
09:16
"Professor, we never think of you
as being different from us.
as being different from us.
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“老师，我们从来没有认为你和我们是不同的”
09:21
Our circumstances are different,
but you're the same as us.
but you're the same as us.
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“我们的境遇不同，但是你和我们都一样”
09:27
We want you to know that we truly
think of you as being the same."
think of you as being the same."
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“我们想让您知道我们一直把您看做我们的一份子”
09:37
Today, if I could respond
to my students with a letter of my own,
to my students with a letter of my own,
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今天，如果我能写一封信回复我的学生们，
09:41
which is of course impossible,
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当然这是不可能的，
09:44
I would tell them this:
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我会告诉他们：
09:49
"My dear gentlemen,
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“亲爱的绅士们,"
09:52
It's been a bit over three years
since I last saw you.
since I last saw you.
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"我上次见到你们已经是3年前了，"
09:55
And now, you must be 22 --
maybe even as old as 23.
maybe even as old as 23.
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“现在你们肯定已经过了22,23岁了”
10:00
At our final class, I asked you
if there was anything you wanted.
if there was anything you wanted.
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“在最后一堂课上，我问你们有没有任何想要的东西”
10:05
The only wish you expressed,
the only thing you ever asked of me
the only thing you ever asked of me
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你们唯一的心愿，唯一问我的一件事
10:09
in all those months we spent together,
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在我们一起度过的几个月中，
10:12
was for me to speak to you in Korean.
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就是让我用朝鲜语跟你们对话
10:15
Just once.
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就一次
10:17
I was there to teach you English;
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我到那里去教你们英语，
10:19
you knew it wasn't allowed.
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你们知道这是不允许的
10:22
But I understood then, you wanted
to share that bond of our mother tongue.
to share that bond of our mother tongue.
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但是我懂得你们想分享我们母语的纽带
10:30
I called you my gentlemen,
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我称你们为 “绅士”，
10:33
but I don't know if being gentle
in Kim Jong-Un's merciless North Korea
in Kim Jong-Un's merciless North Korea
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但是我不知道在金正恩统治的残忍的朝鲜，性情温和
10:37
is a good thing.
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是否是一件好事
10:39
I don't want you to lead a revolution --
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我不想你们引领一场革命 --
10:42
let some other young person do it.
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让别的年轻人去做吧
10:45
The rest of the world might casually
encourage or even expect
encourage or even expect
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世界可能会鼓励，甚至期待
10:48
some sort of North Korean Spring,
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朝鲜的跃进
10:50
but I don't want you to do anything risky,
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但是我不希望你们做任何冒险的事，
10:53
because I know in your world,
someone is always watching.
someone is always watching.
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因为我知道在你们的世界里，总有人观察你们的一举一动
10:59
I don't want to imagine
what might happen to you.
what might happen to you.
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我不想去想象你们可能会有怎样的遭遇
11:02
If my attempts to reach you have
inspired something new in you,
inspired something new in you,
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如果我所做的事启发了你，
11:07
I would rather you forget me.
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我宁愿你们忘了我
11:09
Become soldiers of your Great Leader,
and live long, safe lives.
and live long, safe lives.
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成为你们伟大领袖的士兵，生活安稳，长寿
11:16
You once asked me if I thought
your city of Pyongyang was beautiful,
your city of Pyongyang was beautiful,
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你们曾经问我觉得平壤很美丽吗，
11:21
and I could not answer truthfully then.
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我当时不能如实回答
11:25
But I know why you asked.
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但是我知道你们为什么问这个问题
11:27
I know that it was important for you
to hear that I, your teacher,
to hear that I, your teacher,
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我知道这个对你们很重要，要从我，你们的老师的口中，
11:32
the one who has seen the world
that you are forbidden from,
that you are forbidden from,
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一个能看到你们看不到的世界的人，
11:35
declare your city as the most beautiful.
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听到你们的城市是最美丽的
11:41
I know hearing that would make
your lives there a bit more bearable,
your lives there a bit more bearable,
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我知道听到这句会让你们的生活更加好受一些
11:46
but no, I don't find
your capital beautiful.
your capital beautiful.
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但是，不，我不觉得你们的首都很美丽
11:50
Not because it's monotone and concrete,
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不是因为它的单调无趣或随处可见的混凝土，
11:53
but because of what it symbolizes:
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而是它所象征的意义；
11:55
a monster that feeds off
the rest of the country,
the rest of the country,
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一个侵蚀自己国家的怪兽
12:00
where citizens are soldiers and slaves.
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它的百姓都是士兵和奴隶
12:05
All I see there is darkness.
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我看到的一切都是黑暗的
12:09
But it's your home, so I cannot hate it.
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但是那是你们的家，我不能憎恨它
12:13
And I hope instead that you,
my lovely young gentlemen,
my lovely young gentlemen,
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我依旧希望你们，我的绅士们，
12:18
will one day help make it beautiful.
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能有一天使它变得美丽
12:22
Thank you.
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谢谢！
12:24
(Applause)
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（掌声）
Reviewed by Lee Li
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Suki Kim - WriterSuki Kim's investigation, "Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite," chronicles her six months undercover in Pyongyang during Kim Jong-Il's final six months. She worked as a teacher and a missionary in a university for future leaders -- all while writing her book.
Why you should listen
Suki Kim is the only writer to ever go undercover into North Korea to write a book from the inside. Since 2002, South Korean-born Kim travelled to North Korea, witnessing both Kim Jong-Il's 60th birthday celebration and his death at age 69 in 2011.
Her work sheds a new light on the understanding of the North Korean society by delving into its day-to-day life and provides unprecedented insights into the psychology of its ruling class, about whom the world knows very little.
Kim's novel, The Interpreter, was a finalist for a PEN Hemingway Prize, and her nonfiction has appeared in The New York Times, Harper's and The New York Review of Books. She is the author of the investigation Without You, There Is No Us: My Time with the Sons of North Korea's Elite.
Suki Kim | Speaker | TED.com