Mission Blue II
Carl Safina: What are animals thinking and feeling?
卡爾．薩菲納: 動物在想什麼？
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動物的大腦裡在想什麼？我們能夠知道牠們是否在思考，有情感嗎？如果牠們能思考，那又是在想什麼？牠們能感覺什麼？卡爾．薩菲納認為我們可以做到。他分享了觸及生態學、生物學以及行為科學的發現與趣聞，編織出鯨魚、狼群、大象和信天翁的故事，並認為會思考、感覺、使用工具、表達情緒的不只有人類，跟我們共享地球的其它生物和心智也同樣可以。
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writer
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Have you ever wondered
what animals think and feel?
what animals think and feel?
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你可曾想過動物在想什麼？
感受為何？
感受為何？
00:17
Let's start with a question:
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我們從這問題講起：
00:19
Does my dog really love me,
or does she just want a treat?
or does she just want a treat?
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我的狗真的愛我？
還是她只想吃零食？
還是她只想吃零食？
00:24
Well, it's easy to see
that our dog really loves us,
that our dog really loves us,
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當然我們都知道
我們的狗是真的愛我們。
我們的狗是真的愛我們。
00:29
easy to see, right,
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簡單就看得出來，對吧？
00:32
what's going on in that fuzzy little head.
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可以想像這些毛絨絨的
小腦袋裡想著什麼嗎？
小腦袋裡想著什麼嗎？
00:36
What is going on?
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所以牠們到底在想什麼？
00:39
Something's going on.
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一定有些事。
00:41
But why is the question always
do they love us?
do they love us?
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但是為什麼我們總是
問牠們是否愛我們？
問牠們是否愛我們？
00:46
Why is it always about us?
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為什麼問題總是關於我們？
00:48
Why are we such narcissists?
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為何我們如此自戀？
00:52
I found a different question
to ask animals.
to ask animals.
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我想問動物另一個問題：
00:57
Who are you?
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你是誰？
01:01
There are capacities of the human mind
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人類的智力具有數種能力，
01:04
that we tend to think are capacities
only of the human mind.
only of the human mind.
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我們一向認為是只有人類才擁有的能力。
01:10
But is that true?
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但是事實真是如此嗎？
01:12
What are other beings
doing with those brains?
doing with those brains?
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其他生物跟腦有何關係？
01:16
What are they thinking and feeling?
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牠們思考和感受到什麼？
01:19
Is there a way to know?
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能有辦法知道嗎？
01:21
I think there is a way in.
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我認為可以，
01:22
I think there are several ways in.
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我認為有一些方法可以。
01:24
We can look at evolution,
we can look at their brains
we can look at their brains
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我們可以看看演化過程，
我們可以看看牠們的大腦，
我們可以看看牠們的大腦，
01:29
and we can watch what they do.
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我們也可以觀察牠們的習性。
01:33
The first thing to remember is:
our brain is inherited.
our brain is inherited.
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首先要記得：
我們的頭腦是演化繼承而來的。
我們的頭腦是演化繼承而來的。
01:38
The first neurons came from jellyfish.
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最古老的神經元來自水母。
01:42
Jellyfish gave rise
to the first chordates.
to the first chordates.
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水母演化成早期的脊索動物，
01:45
The first chordates gave rise
to the first vertebrates.
to the first vertebrates.
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脊索動物演化成脊椎動物，
01:49
The vertebrates came out of the sea,
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脊椎動物走出海洋，
01:51
and here we are.
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然後演化成我們。
01:54
But it's still true that a neuron,
a nerve cell, looks the same
a nerve cell, looks the same
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然而，這仍是事實：
神經元、神經細胞看起來都一樣，
神經元、神經細胞看起來都一樣，
02:00
in a crayfish, a bird or you.
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不管存在於小龍蝦、鳥，
或是你都一樣。
或是你都一樣。
02:04
What does that say
about the minds of crayfish?
about the minds of crayfish?
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那這些事實又怎樣說明
小龍蝦的頭腦呢？
小龍蝦的頭腦呢？
02:08
Can we tell anything about that?
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我們能知道什麼？
02:10
Well, it turns out that
if you give a crayfish
if you give a crayfish
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我們發現如果你給一隻小龍蝦
02:14
a lot of little tiny electric shocks
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多次的微量電擊，
02:17
every time it tries
to come out of its burrow,
to come out of its burrow,
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每次牠想從地洞裡出來時
都這麼做的話，
都這麼做的話，
02:19
it will develop anxiety.
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牠會變得緊張。
02:23
If you give the crayfish the same drug
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如果你給小龍蝦人類的藥物，
02:26
used to treat anxiety disorder in humans,
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一些治療人類焦慮症的藥物，
02:29
it relaxes and comes out and explores.
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牠會放鬆然後爬出來走一走。
02:34
How do we show how much
we care about crayfish anxiety?
we care about crayfish anxiety?
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那如何呈現我們
多麼在乎小龍蝦的焦慮？
多麼在乎小龍蝦的焦慮？
02:37
Mostly, we boil them.
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我們大都把牠們烹煮了吧。
02:39
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:42
Octopuses use tools,
as well as do most apes
as well as do most apes
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章魚也使用工具，
做得跟多數猿類一樣熟練，
做得跟多數猿類一樣熟練，
02:47
and they recognize human faces.
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牠們也會識別人臉。
02:50
How do we celebrate the ape-like
intelligence of this invertebrate?
intelligence of this invertebrate?
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我們要如何讚頌
這如猿類智力般的無脊椎動物？
這如猿類智力般的無脊椎動物？
02:55
Mostly boiled.
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我們大都把牠們烹煮了吧。
02:58
If a grouper chases a fish
into a crevice in the coral,
into a crevice in the coral,
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如果石斑魚將魚趕到珊瑚縫中，
03:02
it will sometimes go to where it knows
a moray eel is sleeping
a moray eel is sleeping
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牠有時候會游去
已知道有海鰻睡覺的地方，
已知道有海鰻睡覺的地方，
03:07
and it will signal
to the moray, "Follow me,"
to the moray, "Follow me,"
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然後對著海鰻發出
「跟我走」的信號，
「跟我走」的信號，
03:11
and the moray will understand that signal.
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海鰻可以理解牠的意思，
03:14
The moray may go into the crevice
and get the fish,
and get the fish,
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然後跟著游進珊瑚縫去捕獵魚，
03:17
but the fish may bolt
and the grouper may get it.
and the grouper may get it.
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但魚可能逃脫，
而石斑魚就可以逮到牠。
而石斑魚就可以逮到牠。
03:20
This is an ancient partnership that we
have just recently found out about.
have just recently found out about.
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這種古老的合作關係
我們最近才發現。
我們最近才發現。
03:26
How do we celebrate
that ancient partnership?
that ancient partnership?
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我們要如何讚頌
這古老的合作關係？
這古老的合作關係？
03:30
Mostly fried.
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我們大都把牠們炸了吧！
03:32
A pattern is emerging and it says
a lot more about us
a lot more about us
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這些行為模式的出現
更加清楚說明了我們的行為，
更加清楚說明了我們的行為，
03:36
than it does about them.
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並不單只是說明了牠們的。
03:39
Sea otters use tools
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水瀨會用工具，
03:42
and they take time away
from what they're doing
from what they're doing
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而且他們挪出時間
03:45
to show their babies what to do,
which is called teaching.
which is called teaching.
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示範動作給牠們的寶寶看，
這就是教學。
這就是教學。
03:49
Chimpanzees don't teach.
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黑猩猩沒有教學行為。
03:52
Killer whales teach
and killer whales share food.
and killer whales share food.
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虎鯨不但會教學，
也會分享食物。
也會分享食物。
03:58
When evolution makes something new,
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在演化創造新生物時，
04:00
it uses the parts it has
in stock, off the shelf,
in stock, off the shelf,
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保留原有部分的血統體系，
04:05
before it fabricates a new twist.
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再分化轉變。
04:07
And our brain has come to us
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而我們現在所演化而成的大腦
04:10
through the enormity
of the deep sweep of time.
of the deep sweep of time.
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歷經了時間的巨輪。
04:14
If you look at the human brain
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
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如果你拿人類的大腦
與黑猩猩的大腦來比較，
與黑猩猩的大腦來比較，
04:18
what you see is we have basically
a very big chimpanzee brain.
a very big chimpanzee brain.
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你看到的基本上是
我們有一顆很大的黑猩猩大腦。
我們有一顆很大的黑猩猩大腦。
04:21
It's a good thing ours is bigger,
because we're also really insecure.
because we're also really insecure.
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我們頭腦較大是好事，
因為我們很真的很沒信心。
因為我們很真的很沒信心。
04:25
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:27
But, uh oh, there's a dolphin,
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然而... 喔哦...
這是的海豚大腦。
這是的海豚大腦。
04:30
a bigger brain with more convolutions.
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這是更大的腦，
皺摺也更多。
皺摺也更多。
04:34
OK, maybe you're saying,
all right, well, we see brains,
all right, well, we see brains,
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好了，也許你會說：
「沒錯我們看到大腦，
「沒錯我們看到大腦，
04:37
but what does that
have to say about minds?
have to say about minds?
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但這跟心智有什麼關係呢？」
04:40
Well, we can see the working of the mind
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嗯，我們可以看到心智
04:44
in the logic of behaviors.
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在行為邏輯中的活動。
04:46
So these elephants, you can see,
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所以你看這些大象
04:50
obviously, they are resting.
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很明顯正在休息。
04:53
They have found a patch of shade
under the palm trees
under the palm trees
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牠們在棕梠樹下找到一方樹蔭，
04:57
under which to let their babies sleep,
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作為牠們寶寶睡覺的地方，
05:00
while they doze but remain vigilant.
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牠們自己則在小盹中也仍維持警戒。
05:03
We make perfect sense of that image
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我們相當能理解這個景象，
05:06
just as they make perfect sense
of what they're doing
of what they're doing
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就像動物完全可以理解他們正在做什麼，
05:10
because under the arc of the same sun
on the same plains,
on the same plains,
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因為同在一個太陽下、同一片平原上，
05:13
listening to the howls
of the same dangers,
of the same dangers,
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聆聽著相同危險的怒號聲音，
05:17
they became who they are
and we became who we are.
and we became who we are.
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牠們演化成牠們如今的模樣，
正如我們演化成現成我們現今的模樣。
正如我們演化成現成我們現今的模樣。
05:22
We've been neighbors for a very long time.
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我們有很長一段時間
一直為相比為鄰。
一直為相比為鄰。
05:24
No one would mistake
these elephants as being relaxed.
these elephants as being relaxed.
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沒人會誤以為
這些大象的情緒是鬆懈的，
這些大象的情緒是鬆懈的，
05:28
They're obviously very
concerned about something.
concerned about something.
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牠們顯然正擔心某些事物。
05:31
What are they concerned about?
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牠們在擔心什麼呢？
05:33
It turns out that if you record
the voices of tourists
the voices of tourists
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如果你將遊客的聲音錄下來，
05:37
and you play that recording
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
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然後從草叢裡的擴音器播放音檔，
05:42
elephants will ignore it,
because tourists never bother elephants.
because tourists never bother elephants.
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大象會無視錄音，
因為大象從不會操心遊客。
因為大象從不會操心遊客。
05:46
But if you record the voices of herders
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但如果你錄的是牧人的聲音，
05:50
who carry spears and often hurt elephants
in confrontations at water holes,
in confrontations at water holes,
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牧人都攜帶長矛
且經常在水源地和大象對峙，
且經常在水源地和大象對峙，
05:55
the elephants will bunch up
and run away from the hidden speaker.
and run away from the hidden speaker.
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大象就會集結在一起跑走，
遠離隱藏的擴音器，
遠離隱藏的擴音器，
06:00
Not only do elephants know
that there are humans,
that there are humans,
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大象不僅知道這是人類的聲音，
06:04
they know that there are
different kinds of humans,
different kinds of humans,
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他們也知道人類分為好幾種，
06:06
and that some are OK
and some are dangerous.
and some are dangerous.
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有些人類還是好的，
有些人類則是危險的。
有些人類則是危險的。
06:10
They have been watching us for much longer
than we have been watching them.
than we have been watching them.
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大象觀察我們的時間
遠比我們觀察牠們的時間多。
遠比我們觀察牠們的時間多。
06:15
They know us better than we know them.
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牠們了解我們的程度
遠超過我們了解牠們的程度。
遠超過我們了解牠們的程度。
06:18
We have the same imperatives:
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我們和大象有相同的生存責任：
06:21
take care of our babies,
find food, try to stay alive.
find food, try to stay alive.
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照顧嬰兒、覓食、試著活下去。
06:26
Whether we're outfitted for hiking
in the hills of Africa
in the hills of Africa
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無論是我們是穿戴旅行裝備
健走在非洲的山丘，
健走在非洲的山丘，
06:30
or outfitted for diving under the sea,
we are basically the same.
we are basically the same.
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或是穿戴潛水裝備潛入海底，
我們基本上都是一樣的，
我們基本上都是一樣的，
06:34
We are kin under the skin.
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我們在皮囊之下是一樣的。
06:36
The elephant has the same skeleton,
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大象有相同的骨架，
06:39
the killer whale has the same skeleton,
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殺人鯨有相同的骨架，
06:41
as do we.
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我們亦是如此。
06:45
We see helping where help is needed.
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我們能看到牠們互相幫助，
06:48
We see curiosity in the young.
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我們明白年幼者的好奇心，
06:52
We see the bonds of family connections.
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我們了解家人之間的聯繫，
06:57
We recognize affection.
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我們領悟愛情，
07:00
Courtship is courtship.
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追求愛。
07:03
And then we ask, "Are they conscious?"
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於是我們想問：「動物也有意識嗎？」
07:07
When you get general anesthesia,
it makes you unconscious,
it makes you unconscious,
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如果你服用了麻醉劑，
你就會暫時失去意識，
你就會暫時失去意識，
07:10
which means you have
no sensation of anything.
no sensation of anything.
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也就是說你對任何事情
都不會有知覺。
都不會有知覺。
07:13
Consciousness is simply
the thing that feels like something.
the thing that feels like something.
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意識簡單地說
就是感覺與比對。
就是感覺與比對。
07:17
If you see, if you hear, if you feel,
if you're aware of anything,
if you're aware of anything,
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如果你看見、聽見
感覺、認知到任何東西，
感覺、認知到任何東西，
07:21
you are conscious, and they are conscious.
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你就是有意識的，
而且動物也是。
而且動物也是。
07:27
Some people say
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有人說，
07:28
well, there are certain things
that make humans humans,
that make humans humans,
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人之所以為人，有一些特點，
07:30
and one of those things is empathy.
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其中之一就是同理心。
07:32
Empathy is the mind's ability
to match moods with your companions.
to match moods with your companions.
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同理心是能夠感受
同伴情緒的心靈力量。
同伴情緒的心靈力量。
07:39
It's a very useful thing.
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這是有益的事情。
07:41
If your companions start to move quickly,
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如果同伴開始快速動作，
07:43
you have to feel like
you need to hurry up.
you need to hurry up.
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你便會覺得也應該加快腳步，
我們都在急促追趕中。
我們都在急促追趕中。
07:45
We're all in a hurry now.
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07:47
The oldest form of empathy
is contagious fear.
is contagious fear.
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同理心最古老的一種形式
就是具有傳染力的恐懼。
就是具有傳染力的恐懼。
07:50
If your companions suddenly
startle and fly away,
startle and fly away,
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如果你的同伴
突然受驚嚇且全部飛走，
突然受驚嚇且全部飛走，
07:53
it does not work very well for you to say,
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如果你還像這樣悠悠哉哉地說：
07:55
"Jeez, I wonder why everybody just left."
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「老天，為何大家都飛走了！」
這對你沒有什麼幫助。
這對你沒有什麼幫助。
07:58
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:03
Empathy is old, but empathy,
like everything else in life,
like everything else in life,
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同理心雖然存在已久，
但像生活大小事一樣，
但像生活大小事一樣，
08:06
comes on a sliding scale
and has its elaboration.
and has its elaboration.
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排山倒海而來，有其精密複雜。
基本的同理心是：
如果你很難過，我也會跟著難過，
如果你很難過，我也會跟著難過，
08:10
So there's basic empathy:
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
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08:14
I see you happy, it makes me happy.
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我看見你高興，所以我也高興。
還有一種情感我稱之為同情心，
08:17
Then there's something
that I call sympathy,
that I call sympathy,
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情緒稍微疏離一點：
08:19
a little more removed:
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08:22
"I'm sorry to hear that your grandmother
has just passed away.
has just passed away.
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「我很難過聽到你祖母剛過世的消息。」
08:25
I don't feel that same grief,
but I get it; I know what you feel
but I get it; I know what you feel
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雖然我沒有感到同樣的悲傷，
但我懂，我知道那感覺，
但我懂，我知道那感覺，
08:29
and it concerns me."
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這讓我擔心。
而如果我們被觸發了
同情心因而產生行動，
同情心因而產生行動，
08:30
And then if we're motivated
to act on sympathy,
to act on sympathy,
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08:33
I call that compassion.
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我稱那為憐憫。
這根本不是人類獨特所有，
08:36
Far from being the thing
that makes us human,
that makes us human,
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08:39
human empathy is far from perfect.
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人類同理心也並非那麼完美。
08:42
We round up empathic creatures,
we kill them and we eat them.
we kill them and we eat them.
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我們圍捕擁有同理心的動物，
殺死牠們，把牠們吃掉。
殺死牠們，把牠們吃掉。
你可能會說：好了，好吧。
牠們是不同物種嘛。
牠們是不同物種嘛。
08:48
Now, maybe you say OK,
well, those are different species.
well, those are different species.
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08:50
That's just predation,
and humans are predators.
and humans are predators.
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肉若強食很正常啊，
人類是肉食動物。
人類是肉食動物。
然而我們對待同胞也沒多好。
08:54
But we don't treat our own kind
too well either.
too well either.
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人們也似乎只認識一種動物行為，
09:01
People who seem to know
only one thing about animal behavior
only one thing about animal behavior
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09:04
know that you must never attribute
human thoughts and emotions
human thoughts and emotions
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就是你絕對不能
將人類的思想和情緒
將人類的思想和情緒
09:08
to other species.
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套用在其他物種身上。
我覺得這是愚蠢的，
09:10
Well, I think that's silly,
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09:12
because attributing human thoughts
and emotions to other species
and emotions to other species
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因為把人類思緒和情感
套用在其他物種身上，
套用在其他物種身上，
是了解牠們的最佳第一步，
猜測牠們在做什麼、感覺如何，
猜測牠們在做什麼、感覺如何，
09:16
is the best first guess about what
they're doing and how they're feeling,
they're doing and how they're feeling,
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09:20
because their brains
are basically the same as ours.
are basically the same as ours.
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因為牠們的大腦
基本上和我們一樣，
基本上和我們一樣，
09:24
They have the same structures.
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有相同的結構，
造就我們情緒與動力的賀爾蒙
09:26
The same hormones that create
mood and motivation in us
mood and motivation in us
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09:31
are in those brains as well.
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也同樣在牠們的大腦中。
這並不是科學的說法：
牠們餓了才會獵食、
牠們餓了才會獵食、
09:35
It is not scientific to say that they
are hungry when they're hunting
are hungry when they're hunting
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牠們舌頭垂在外面時，
就表示牠們是累了。
就表示牠們是累了。
09:40
and they're tired when
their tongues are hanging out,
their tongues are hanging out,
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09:43
and then say when they're playing
with their children
with their children
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或者說，當牠們和孩子玩耍，
09:45
and acting joyful and happy,
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行為表現喜悅和快樂的時候，
我們無從了解是否牠們真的感受如此。
09:47
we have no idea if they can possibly
be experiencing anything.
be experiencing anything.
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09:52
That is not scientific.
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這些說法不科學。
所以，好了，有個記者跟我說：
09:55
So OK, so a reporter said to me,
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09:58
"Maybe, but how do you really know
that other animals can think and feel?"
that other animals can think and feel?"
169
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4308
「也許吧，但你如何真正知道
其他動物能思考與感覺？」
其他動物能思考與感覺？」
10:02
And I started to rifle
through all the hundreds
through all the hundreds
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我開始到處搜尋
我書裡引用的所有科學參考資料，
10:05
of scientific references
that I put in my book
that I put in my book
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10:08
and I realized that the answer
was right in the room with me.
was right in the room with me.
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我發現答案就在我的房間裡。
10:11
When my dog gets off the rug
and comes over to me --
and comes over to me --
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當我的狗起身離開了毯子，
來到我身邊，
來到我身邊，
沒有跑到沙發，而是跑向我，
10:15
not to the couch, to me --
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1762
10:17
and she rolls over on her back
and exposes her belly,
and exposes her belly,
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她滾躺著露出肚子，
她所想的是：「我要肚子抓抓。
10:21
she has had the thought,
"I would like my belly rubbed.
"I would like my belly rubbed.
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10:26
I know that I can go over to Carl,
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2536
我知道我可以跑到卡爾那，
10:29
he will understand what I'm asking.
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2313
他會知道我想要什麼，
我信任他，因為我們是家人。
10:32
I know I can trust him
because we're family.
because we're family.
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2496
10:35
He'll get the job done,
and it will feel good."
and it will feel good."
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2715
他會把事情做好，讓我開心。」
10:38
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:40
She has thought and she has felt,
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3329
她有思考過，而且她也感覺到了。
10:43
and it's really not
more complicated than that.
more complicated than that.
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這真的沒有那麼複雜。
10:46
But we see other animals
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
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當我們欣賞其他動物時說：
「瞧！虎鯨、狼、大象。」
「瞧！虎鯨、狼、大象。」
10:50
wolves, elephants:
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2410
10:53
that's not how they see it."
186
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這並非牠們觀察其他動物的方式。
這隻背鰭高大的公鯨叫 L41，
10:55
That tall-finned male is L41.
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4294
11:00
He's 38 years old.
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38歲，
11:02
The female right on his left side is L22.
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在牠左側的母鯨是 L22，
11:05
She's 44.
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1552
44歲。
11:07
They've known each other for decades.
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2635
牠們彼此認識已經幾十年了。
11:10
They know exactly who they are.
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牠們知道自己是誰，
11:12
They know who their friends are.
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牠們知道誰是朋友，
11:14
They know who their rivals are.
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牠們知道誰是敵人。
11:15
Their life follows the arc of a career.
195
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牠們也有生涯曲線。
11:18
They know where they are all the time.
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總是知道自己身處何處。
11:22
This is an elephant named Philo.
197
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2375
這隻叫作菲洛的大象，
11:25
He was a young male.
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1828
是年輕的公象。
11:27
This is him four days later.
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四天之後牠變成這樣。
11:30
Humans not only can feel grief,
we create an awful lot of it.
we create an awful lot of it.
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5330
人類不只可以感受悲傷，
我們做了很多這種駭人之舉。
我們做了很多這種駭人之舉。
11:38
We want to carve their teeth.
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我們想拔除牠們的象牙，
11:42
Why can't we wait for them to die?
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但為何就不能等牠們死亡後再做？
11:47
Elephants once ranged from the shores
of the Mediterranean Sea
of the Mediterranean Sea
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3468
大象曾經分布在地中海的沿岸，
11:51
all the way down to the Cape of Good Hope.
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一路到好望角。
11:53
In 1980, there were vast
strongholds of elephant range
strongholds of elephant range
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3386
1980年這裡是大象的廣大分布區，
11:56
in Central and Eastern Africa.
206
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就在中非、東非。
11:59
And now their range is shattered
into little shards.
into little shards.
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而現在牠們散布到零星的區域。
12:03
This is the geography of an animal
that we are driving to extinction,
that we are driving to extinction,
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這是我們造成大象滅絕的情況，
12:08
a fellow being, the most
magnificent creature on land.
magnificent creature on land.
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牠們是地表上最壯觀的動物、
也我們的同伴。
也我們的同伴。
12:13
Of course, we take much better care
of our wildlife in the United States.
of our wildlife in the United States.
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當然，在美國我們
照顧野生動物更為周到。
照顧野生動物更為周到。
12:17
In Yellowstone National Park,
we killed every single wolf.
we killed every single wolf.
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我們在黃石公園
獵殺每隻一隻狼，
獵殺每隻一隻狼，
12:21
We killed every single wolf
south of the Canadian border, actually.
south of the Canadian border, actually.
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其實我們也在加拿大的南境
獵殺每一隻狼。
獵殺每一隻狼。
12:25
But in the park, park rangers
did that in the 1920s,
did that in the 1920s,
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4393
在1920年代，
森林警備隊都在執行這種任務。
森林警備隊都在執行這種任務。
12:29
and then 60 years later
they had to bring them back,
they had to bring them back,
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2591
而60年後，他們必須增加狼群數量，
12:32
because the elk numbers
had gotten out of control.
had gotten out of control.
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2907
因為駝鹿的數目已經失控。
12:36
And then people came.
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1274
然後遊客也來了，
12:37
People came by the thousands
to see the wolves,
to see the wolves,
217
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3724
成千上萬的人前來觀賞狼群，
12:41
the most accessibly
visible wolves in the world.
visible wolves in the world.
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3495
這裡是全世界最容易
看到狼群的地方。
看到狼群的地方。
12:45
And I went there and I watched
this incredible family of wolves.
this incredible family of wolves.
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我也前往觀察這個
令人驚嘆的野狼家族，
令人驚嘆的野狼家族，
12:48
A pack is a family.
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1453
這是一個狼群家族，
12:50
It has some breeding adults
and the young of several generations.
and the young of several generations.
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3575
有成年的狼與幾代年輕的狼。
12:55
And I watched the most famous, most stable
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
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4616
我在黃石公園觀察這個
名聲響亮、最穩定的野狼家族。
名聲響亮、最穩定的野狼家族。
13:00
And then, when they wandered
just outside the border,
just outside the border,
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當牠們徘徊在邊境，
13:03
two of their adults were killed,
224
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2681
有兩隻成年狼被獵殺了，
13:06
including the mother,
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2253
其中一隻是雌狼媽媽，
13:08
which we sometimes call the alpha female.
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我們有時候稱之為頭號母狼。
13:11
The rest of the family immediately
descended into sibling rivalry.
descended into sibling rivalry.
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4243
剩下的狼族立即展開了兄弟鬩牆。
13:16
Sisters kicked out other sisters.
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2241
狼的姊妹彼此互相驅離，
13:19
That one on the left tried for days
to rejoin her family.
to rejoin her family.
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3481
左邊的這一隻狼有好幾天想回到家族，
13:23
They wouldn't let her
because they were jealous of her.
because they were jealous of her.
230
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2692
但其他狼不接受，因為忌妒她，
13:25
She was getting too much attention
from two new males,
from two new males,
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2813
她受到另外兩隻新公狼太多的關注了。
13:28
and she was the precocious one.
232
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2018
她太早熟了，
13:30
That was too much for them.
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1653
對其它狼來說，這太麻煩。
13:32
She wound up wandering
outside the park and getting shot.
outside the park and getting shot.
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2725
後來，牠在公園裡徘徊，
後來被獵殺了。
後來被獵殺了。
13:36
The alpha male wound up
being ejected from his own family.
being ejected from his own family.
235
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3409
頭號公狼也被逐出家族。
13:40
As winter was coming in,
236
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2003
隨著冬季到來，
13:42
he lost his territory,
his hunting support,
his hunting support,
237
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3750
牠失去了領地、捕獵的支援，
13:46
the members of his family and his mate.
238
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2471
失去了家人，也失去了同伴。
13:50
We cause so much pain to them.
239
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3624
我們對牠們傷害如此之重。
13:55
The mystery is, why don't
they hurt us more than they do?
they hurt us more than they do?
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4960
難解的是，為何牠們
不會更加地傷害我們？
不會更加地傷害我們？
14:01
This whale had just finished eating
part of a grey whale
part of a grey whale
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3198
這隻鯨剛剛吃掉了半隻灰鯨，
14:05
with his companions
who had killed that whale.
who had killed that whale.
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2579
牠跟同伴一起殺了這隻灰鯨。
14:07
Those people in the boat
had nothing at all to fear.
had nothing at all to fear.
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3084
船上這群人一點都不害怕。
14:11
This whale is T20.
244
839999
1989
這隻鯨叫 T20，
14:14
He had just finished tearing a seal
into three pieces with two companions.
into three pieces with two companions.
245
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4251
牠剛剛和另外兩隻同伴
將海豹撕裂成三塊。
將海豹撕裂成三塊。
14:19
The seal weighed about as much
as the people in the boat.
as the people in the boat.
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2692
海豹的體重跟人類的體重差不多。
14:21
They had nothing to fear.
247
849884
1503
牠們沒什麼好怕的啊，
14:24
They eat seals.
248
852189
1422
牠們吃海豹，
14:26
Why don't they eat us?
249
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1686
那為何牠們不吃我們？
14:30
Why can we trust them around our toddlers?
250
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3760
為何我們能相信牠們，
讓牠靠近還在學步的孩童？
讓牠靠近還在學步的孩童？
14:36
Why is it that killer whales have returned
to researchers lost in thick fog
to researchers lost in thick fog
251
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5902
為何這些虎鯨知道研究員
在霧中迷航，而游回附近，
在霧中迷航，而游回附近，
14:42
and led them miles until the fog parted
252
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3330
引領數哩，直到迷霧散去，
14:45
and the researchers' home
was right there on the shoreline?
was right there on the shoreline?
253
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3165
而研究員的家就在岸邊？
14:48
And that's happened more than one time.
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2016
不只發生一次。
14:53
In the Bahamas, there's a woman
named Denise Herzing,
named Denise Herzing,
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2575
在巴哈馬，有位丹妮絲女士，
14:55
and she studies spotted dolphins
and they know her.
and they know her.
256
883770
3324
她研究斑點海豚，海豚也認識她，
14:59
She knows them very well.
She knows who they all are.
She knows who they all are.
257
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2598
她跟每ㄧ隻海豚很熟，
15:01
They know her.
They recognize the research boat.
They recognize the research boat.
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海豚也認識她，能辨認研究船。
15:04
When she shows up,
it's a big happy reunion.
it's a big happy reunion.
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當她出現時，就是快樂的重逢。
15:06
Except, one time showed up and they
didn't want to come near the boat,
didn't want to come near the boat,
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只有一次例外，
她出現後，牠們不願意靠近，
她出現後，牠們不願意靠近，
15:09
and that was really strange.
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這非常奇怪。
15:11
And they couldn't figure out
what was going on
what was going on
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他們無法理解發生什麼事，
15:13
until somebody came out on deck
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直到有人上了甲板，
15:15
and announced that one
of the people onboard had died
of the people onboard had died
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通知說船上有人過世，
15:18
during a nap in his bunk.
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是在船上睡舖打盹時死亡的。
15:20
How could dolphins know
that one of the human hearts
that one of the human hearts
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海豚如何能知道船上有人心跳已經停止了？
15:24
had just stopped?
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15:26
Why would they care?
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為何牠們在意？
15:29
And why would it spook them?
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又為何這件事嚇到了牠們？
15:33
These mysterious things just hint at
all of the things that are going on
all of the things that are going on
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這些神秘的事揭露出
和我們一樣共存於地球的
其它心智在想什麼，
其它心智在想什麼，
15:38
in the minds that are with us on Earth
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15:41
that we almost never think about at all.
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而我們卻幾乎沒認真思考過。
15:46
At an aquarium in South Africa
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在南非的水族館，
15:48
was a little baby bottle-nosed
dolphin named Dolly.
dolphin named Dolly.
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有一隻瓶鼻海豚名叫多莉。
15:52
She was nursing, and one day
a keeper took a cigarette break
a keeper took a cigarette break
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她還在哺乳期，有天館員休息時抽菸，
15:58
and he was looking into the window
into their pool, smoking.
into their pool, smoking.
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他透過窗對著池子抽菸。
16:02
Dolly came over and looked at him,
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多莉游了過來看著他，
16:04
went back to her mother,
nursed for a minute or two,
nursed for a minute or two,
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再游回了母親身邊，哺乳一兩分鐘，
16:08
came back to the window
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然後游回窗前，
16:10
and released a cloud of milk
that enveloped her head like smoke.
that enveloped her head like smoke.
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吐出的奶散開成一朵雲
環繞著她的頭部。
環繞著她的頭部。
16:16
Somehow, this baby bottle-nosed dolphin
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看來，這隻瓶鼻海豚
16:19
got the idea of using milk
to represent smoke.
to represent smoke.
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想到用奶來呈現煙霧。
16:24
When human beings use one thing
to represent another,
to represent another,
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當人類用其它方式來呈現另一事物時，
16:27
we call that art.
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我們稱之為藝術。
16:29
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
16:31
The things that make us human
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我們之所以是人類的原因，
16:33
are not the things
that we think make us human.
that we think make us human.
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跟我們所想的其實不盡相同。
16:36
What makes us human is that,
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讓我們之所以為人類的是，
16:39
of all these things that our minds
and their minds have,
and their minds have,
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我們和動物都擁有的心智活動，
16:42
we are the most extreme.
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但我們卻是最極端的。
16:46
We are the most compassionate,
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我們是地球上最有憐憫心、
16:48
most violent, most creative
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最暴力、最有創意，
16:51
and most destructive animal
that has ever been on this planet,
that has ever been on this planet,
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也是最有破壞力的動物。
16:56
and we are all of those things
all jumbled up together.
all jumbled up together.
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我們是這些特徵混合在一起的結果。
17:01
But love is not the thing
that makes us human.
that makes us human.
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但愛並不是我們之所以為人的主要因素，
17:06
It's not special to us.
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愛不是只有人類有。
17:09
We are not the only ones
who care about our mates.
who care about our mates.
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我們並不是唯一關心同伴的動物，
17:13
We are not the only ones
who care about our children.
who care about our children.
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也不是唯一關心孩子的動物。
17:18
Albatrosses frequently fly six,
sometimes ten thousand miles
sometimes ten thousand miles
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信天翁常常飛了 6000 哩，
有時候萬哩，
有時候萬哩，
17:23
over several weeks to deliver
one meal, one big meal,
one meal, one big meal,
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飛了幾個星期，
只為了帶一頓大餐
只為了帶一頓大餐
17:28
to their chick who is waiting for them.
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1976
回來餵食等待牠們回來的幼雛。
17:30
They nest on the most remote islands
in the oceans of the world,
in the oceans of the world,
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牠們築巢在遙遠的海上島嶼，
17:35
and this is what it looks like.
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看起來像這樣。
17:39
Passing life from one generation
to the next is the chain of being.
to the next is the chain of being.
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一代傳一代是生命的連結，
17:43
If that stops, it all goes away.
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假如停止了，就消失了。
17:46
If anything is sacred, that is,
and into that sacred relationship
and into that sacred relationship
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如果有哪件事很神聖，
那就是世代傳承了。
那就是世代傳承了。
但這種神聖關係中，
跑出了塑膠垃圾。
跑出了塑膠垃圾。
17:51
comes our plastic trash.
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17:54
All of these birds
have plastic in them now.
have plastic in them now.
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2687
這些鳥現在身體裡都有塑膠。
17:57
This is an albatross six months old,
ready to fledge --
ready to fledge --
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4651
這隻信天翁六個月大，
開始準備生長羽翼，
開始準備生長羽翼，
18:02
died, packed with red cigarette lighters.
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因為腹中滿是紅色打火機而死去。
18:06
This is not the relationship
we are supposed to have
we are supposed to have
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這並非我們與世界
其他生命該有的關係。
其他生命該有的關係。
18:09
with the rest of the world.
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18:11
But we, who have named
ourselves after our brains,
ourselves after our brains,
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我們以聰明的大腦自居，
18:16
never think about the consequences.
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3386
從未想過後果。
18:21
When we welcome new
human life into the world,
human life into the world,
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當我們迎接新的生命來到世上，
18:24
we welcome our babies
into the company of other creatures.
into the company of other creatures.
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我們讓寶寶與其他生物作伴。
18:28
We paint animals on the walls.
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我們繪製動物於牆壁，
18:30
We don't paint cell phones.
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我們不會畫手機、
18:32
We don't paint work cubicles.
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我們不會畫辦公室的隔間，
18:34
We paint animals to show them
that we are not alone.
that we are not alone.
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我們繪製動物圖像，
告訴孩子我們並不是唯一生命，
告訴孩子我們並不是唯一生命，
18:39
We have company.
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我們還有陪伴。
18:42
And every one of those animals
in every painting of Noah's ark,
in every painting of Noah's ark,
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而每一幅諾亞方舟畫裡的每隻動物，
18:47
deemed worthy of salvation
is in mortal danger now,
is in mortal danger now,
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值得拯救的牠們，
現在處於死亡的危險中，
現在處於死亡的危險中，
18:51
and their flood is us.
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而人類就是牠們的洪水。
18:55
So we started with a question:
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所以我們首先這樣問：
18:58
Do they love us?
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牠們愛我們嗎？
我們再繼續追問：
19:01
We're going to ask another question.
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2048
我們是否有足夠的能力，
利用我們擁有的一切
利用我們擁有的一切
19:04
Are we capable of using what we have
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照顧牠們，讓牠們的生命延續下去？
19:09
to care enough to simply
let them continue?
let them continue?
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19:16
Thank you very much.
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謝謝。
19:18
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writerCarl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature.
Why you should listen
Carl Safina explores how the ocean is changing and what those changes mean for wildlife and for people.
Safina is author of seven books, including Song for the Blue Ocean, which was a New York Times Notable Book of the Year, Eye of the Albatross, Voyage of the Turtle and The View From Lazy Point. Safina is founding president of The Safina Center at Stony Brook University, where he also co-chairs the University's Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science. A winner of the 2012 Orion Award and a MacArthur Prize, among others, his work has been featured in outlets such as The New York Times, National Geographic, CNN.com and The Huffington Post, and he hosts “Saving the Ocean” on PBS.
His latest book, Beyond Words: What Animals Think And Feel, explores the inner lives of animals.
Carl Safina | Speaker | TED.com