Mission Blue II
Carl Safina: What are animals thinking and feeling?
Carl Safina: O čemu životinje razmišljaju i što osjećaju?
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Što se odvija u mozgovima životinja? Možemo li znati o čemu, ili ako uopće, razmišljaju i osjećaju? Carl Safina smatra da možemo. Koristeći otkrića i anegdote koje obuhvaćaju ekologiju, biologiju i bihevioralnu znanost, Carl spaja priče o kitovima, vukovima, slonovima i albatrosima kako bi dokazao da kao što i mi razmišljamo, osjećamo, koristimo oruđe i izražavamo emocije, tako isto čine i ostala bića – i umovi – koji dijele Zemlju s nama.
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writer
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Carl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Have you ever wondered
what animals think and feel?
what animals think and feel?
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Jeste li se ikad pitali o čemu životinje
razmišljaju i kako se osjećaju?
razmišljaju i kako se osjećaju?
00:17
Let's start with a question:
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Krenimo s ovim pitanjem:
00:19
Does my dog really love me,
or does she just want a treat?
or does she just want a treat?
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Voli li me moj pas doista
ili samo želi poslasticu?
ili samo želi poslasticu?
00:24
Well, it's easy to see
that our dog really loves us,
that our dog really loves us,
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Lako je vidjeti da nas pas doista voli,
00:29
easy to see, right,
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lako je shvatiti
00:32
what's going on in that fuzzy little head.
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što se mota u toj čupavoj glavici.
00:36
What is going on?
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Što se to mota?
00:39
Something's going on.
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Nešto se odvija.
00:41
But why is the question always
do they love us?
do they love us?
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No, zašto je pitanje
uvijek vole li oni nas?
uvijek vole li oni nas?
00:46
Why is it always about us?
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Zašto je naglasak uvijek na nama?
00:48
Why are we such narcissists?
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Zašto smo tako narcisoidni?
00:52
I found a different question
to ask animals.
to ask animals.
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Imam drukčije pitanje za životinje.
00:57
Who are you?
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Tko ste vi?
01:01
There are capacities of the human mind
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Ljudski um ima svojstva
01:04
that we tend to think are capacities
only of the human mind.
only of the human mind.
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koja smatramo da su
karakteristična samo za ljude.
karakteristična samo za ljude.
01:10
But is that true?
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No, je li to zaista tako?
01:12
What are other beings
doing with those brains?
doing with those brains?
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Što druga bića rade
s tim svojim mozgovima?
s tim svojim mozgovima?
01:16
What are they thinking and feeling?
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O čemu razmišljaju i što osjećaju?
01:19
Is there a way to know?
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Postoji li način da to saznamo?
01:21
I think there is a way in.
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Mislim da postoji neki način.
01:22
I think there are several ways in.
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Mislim da postoji više načina.
01:24
We can look at evolution,
we can look at their brains
we can look at their brains
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Možemo proučiti evoluciju,
njihove mozgove,
njihove mozgove,
01:29
and we can watch what they do.
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i možemo proučavati što oni rade.
01:33
The first thing to remember is:
our brain is inherited.
our brain is inherited.
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Prvo trebamo upamtiti ovo:
naš je mozak naslijeđen.
naš je mozak naslijeđen.
01:38
The first neurons came from jellyfish.
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Prvi neuroni pojavili su se kod meduza.
01:42
Jellyfish gave rise
to the first chordates.
to the first chordates.
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Iz meduza su se razvii prvi svitkovci.
01:45
The first chordates gave rise
to the first vertebrates.
to the first vertebrates.
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Prvi su se svitkovci kasnije
razvili u prve kralježnjake.
razvili u prve kralježnjake.
01:49
The vertebrates came out of the sea,
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Kralježnjaci su izašli iz mora,
01:51
and here we are.
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i evo nas ovdje.
01:54
But it's still true that a neuron,
a nerve cell, looks the same
a nerve cell, looks the same
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Međutim, neuron tj. živčana stanica
još uvijek izgleda jednako
još uvijek izgleda jednako
02:00
in a crayfish, a bird or you.
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kod rakova, ptica ili vas.
02:04
What does that say
about the minds of crayfish?
about the minds of crayfish?
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Što to govori o umu rakova?
02:08
Can we tell anything about that?
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Možemo li išta o tome kazati?
02:10
Well, it turns out that
if you give a crayfish
if you give a crayfish
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Ispostavilo se da ako raku damo
02:14
a lot of little tiny electric shocks
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mnogo sitnih električnih šokova
02:17
every time it tries
to come out of its burrow,
to come out of its burrow,
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svaki puta kada pokuša
izaći iz svog skrovišta,
izaći iz svog skrovišta,
02:19
it will develop anxiety.
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kod njega će to razviti anksioznost.
02:23
If you give the crayfish the same drug
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Ako raku date isti lijek
02:26
used to treat anxiety disorder in humans,
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koji se koristi za liječenje
anksioznosti u čovjeka,
anksioznosti u čovjeka,
02:29
it relaxes and comes out and explores.
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on će se opustiti, izaći i istraživati.
02:34
How do we show how much
we care about crayfish anxiety?
we care about crayfish anxiety?
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Kako iskazujemo koliko nam je
stalo o anksioznosti rakova?
stalo o anksioznosti rakova?
02:37
Mostly, we boil them.
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Uglavnom tako da ih kuhamo.
02:39
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:42
Octopuses use tools,
as well as do most apes
as well as do most apes
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Hobotnice koriste oruđe, kao i
većina čovjekolikih majmuna
većina čovjekolikih majmuna
02:47
and they recognize human faces.
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i prepoznaju ljudska lica.
02:50
How do we celebrate the ape-like
intelligence of this invertebrate?
intelligence of this invertebrate?
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Kako slavimo tu visoku
inteligenciju ovih beskralježnjaka?
inteligenciju ovih beskralježnjaka?
02:55
Mostly boiled.
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Uglavnom ih kuhamo.
02:58
If a grouper chases a fish
into a crevice in the coral,
into a crevice in the coral,
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Ako kijerna tjera ribu
u pukotinu u koralju,
u pukotinu u koralju,
03:02
it will sometimes go to where it knows
a moray eel is sleeping
a moray eel is sleeping
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ponekad će ići onamo gdje
zna da murinka spava
zna da murinka spava
03:07
and it will signal
to the moray, "Follow me,"
to the moray, "Follow me,"
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i signalizirat će murinki da je slijedi
03:11
and the moray will understand that signal.
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i murinka će razumjeti taj signal.
03:14
The moray may go into the crevice
and get the fish,
and get the fish,
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Murinka će možda ući u
pukotinu i uhvatiti ribu,
pukotinu i uhvatiti ribu,
03:17
but the fish may bolt
and the grouper may get it.
and the grouper may get it.
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ali riba se može naglo izmaći i u tom
je slučaju može uloviti kijerna.
je slučaju može uloviti kijerna.
03:20
This is an ancient partnership that we
have just recently found out about.
have just recently found out about.
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Ovo je drevna suradnja koju
smo tek nedavno otkrili.
smo tek nedavno otkrili.
03:26
How do we celebrate
that ancient partnership?
that ancient partnership?
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Kako slavimo to drevno partnerstvo?
03:30
Mostly fried.
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Uglavnom tako da ih pržimo.
03:32
A pattern is emerging and it says
a lot more about us
a lot more about us
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Javlja se obrazac ponašanja koji
govori mnogo više o nama
govori mnogo više o nama
03:36
than it does about them.
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nego o njima.
03:39
Sea otters use tools
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Morske vidre koriste oruđe
03:42
and they take time away
from what they're doing
from what they're doing
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i odvajaju vrijeme od toga što rade
03:45
to show their babies what to do,
which is called teaching.
which is called teaching.
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kako bi pokazale svojim mladuncima što
treba raditi, a to se zove podučavanje.
treba raditi, a to se zove podučavanje.
03:49
Chimpanzees don't teach.
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Čimpanze ne podučavaju.
03:52
Killer whales teach
and killer whales share food.
and killer whales share food.
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Kitovi ubojice podučavaju i dijele hranu.
03:58
When evolution makes something new,
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Kada evolucija stvori nešto novo,
04:00
it uses the parts it has
in stock, off the shelf,
in stock, off the shelf,
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koristi dijelove koje već ima otprije,
04:05
before it fabricates a new twist.
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prije nego što stvori nešto novo.
04:07
And our brain has come to us
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Naš mozak se razvijao
04:10
through the enormity
of the deep sweep of time.
of the deep sweep of time.
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tijekom milijuna godina.
04:14
If you look at the human brain
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
compared to a chimpanzee brain,
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Ako usporedite ljudski mozak
i mozak čimpanze,
i mozak čimpanze,
04:18
what you see is we have basically
a very big chimpanzee brain.
a very big chimpanzee brain.
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možete vidjeti da imamo
vrlo veliki mozak čimpanzi.
vrlo veliki mozak čimpanzi.
04:21
It's a good thing ours is bigger,
because we're also really insecure.
because we're also really insecure.
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Dobro je da je naš mozak veći, s obzirom
da smo također vrlo nesigurni.
da smo također vrlo nesigurni.
04:25
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:27
But, uh oh, there's a dolphin,
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Ovo je dupin,
04:30
a bigger brain with more convolutions.
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ima veći mozak s više vijuga.
04:34
OK, maybe you're saying,
all right, well, we see brains,
all right, well, we see brains,
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Možda si mislite "Vidimo mozgove,
04:37
but what does that
have to say about minds?
have to say about minds?
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ali što to govori o umovima?"
04:40
Well, we can see the working of the mind
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Pa, djelovanje uma možemo uočiti
04:44
in the logic of behaviors.
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u logičnosti ponašanja.
04:46
So these elephants, you can see,
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Ovi se slonovi ovdje
04:50
obviously, they are resting.
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očigledno odmaraju.
04:53
They have found a patch of shade
under the palm trees
under the palm trees
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Pronašli su malo hlada pod palmama
04:57
under which to let their babies sleep,
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gdje im mladunčad može spavati,
05:00
while they doze but remain vigilant.
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dok oni drijemaju, ali su
istovremeno na oprezu.
istovremeno na oprezu.
05:03
We make perfect sense of that image
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Ova slika nam je sasvim jasna
05:06
just as they make perfect sense
of what they're doing
of what they're doing
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kao što je njima sasvim jasno to što rade
05:10
because under the arc of the same sun
on the same plains,
on the same plains,
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jer ispod istog sunca,
na istim tim ravnicama,
na istim tim ravnicama,
05:13
listening to the howls
of the same dangers,
of the same dangers,
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slušajući zavijanje istih opasnosti,
05:17
they became who they are
and we became who we are.
and we became who we are.
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oni su postali to što jesu, a
mi smo postali to što mi jesmo.
mi smo postali to što mi jesmo.
05:22
We've been neighbors for a very long time.
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Vrlo smo dugo susjedi.
05:24
No one would mistake
these elephants as being relaxed.
these elephants as being relaxed.
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Nitko ne bi rekao da ovi
slonovi izgledaju opušteno.
slonovi izgledaju opušteno.
05:28
They're obviously very
concerned about something.
concerned about something.
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Očigledno su vrlo zabrinuti zbog nečega.
05:31
What are they concerned about?
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Što ih to brine?
05:33
It turns out that if you record
the voices of tourists
the voices of tourists
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Pokazalo se da ako snimite glasove turista
05:37
and you play that recording
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
from a speaker hidden in bushes,
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i pustite snimku preko
zvučnika skrivenog u grmlju,
zvučnika skrivenog u grmlju,
05:42
elephants will ignore it,
because tourists never bother elephants.
because tourists never bother elephants.
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slonovi će to ignorirati, jer ih
turisti nikada ne uznemiravaju.
turisti nikada ne uznemiravaju.
05:46
But if you record the voices of herders
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No, ako snimite glasove pastira
05:50
who carry spears and often hurt elephants
in confrontations at water holes,
in confrontations at water holes,
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koji nose koplja i često ranjavaju slonove
tijekom sukoba na pojilištima,
tijekom sukoba na pojilištima,
05:55
the elephants will bunch up
and run away from the hidden speaker.
and run away from the hidden speaker.
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slonovi će se okupiti i pobjeći
od skrivenog zvučnika.
od skrivenog zvučnika.
06:00
Not only do elephants know
that there are humans,
that there are humans,
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Ne samo da slonovi znaju da su to ljudi,
06:04
they know that there are
different kinds of humans,
different kinds of humans,
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nego razlikuju drukčije skupine ljudi,
06:06
and that some are OK
and some are dangerous.
and some are dangerous.
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i znaju da su neki uredu, a neki opasni.
06:10
They have been watching us for much longer
than we have been watching them.
than we have been watching them.
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Promatraju nas mnogo dulje nego mi njih.
06:15
They know us better than we know them.
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Znaju nas bolje nego mi njih.
06:18
We have the same imperatives:
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Imamo jednake nagone:
06:21
take care of our babies,
find food, try to stay alive.
find food, try to stay alive.
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brinuti se za bebe, tražiti
hranu, preživljavati.
hranu, preživljavati.
06:26
Whether we're outfitted for hiking
in the hills of Africa
in the hills of Africa
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Bilo da smo opremljeni za planinarenje
po afričkim brdima,
po afričkim brdima,
06:30
or outfitted for diving under the sea,
we are basically the same.
we are basically the same.
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ili da smo opremljeni za ronjenje
pod morem, u suštini smo jednaki.
pod morem, u suštini smo jednaki.
06:34
We are kin under the skin.
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U srodstvu smo.
06:36
The elephant has the same skeleton,
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Slon ima jednaki kostur,
06:39
the killer whale has the same skeleton,
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kit ubojica ima jednaki kostur,
06:41
as do we.
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kao i mi.
06:45
We see helping where help is needed.
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Možemo vidjeti kako pružaju
pomoć kada je to potrebno.
pomoć kada je to potrebno.
06:48
We see curiosity in the young.
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Vidimo znatiželju u mladunaca.
06:52
We see the bonds of family connections.
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Vidimo kako su obitelji povezane.
06:57
We recognize affection.
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Prepoznajemo ljubav.
07:00
Courtship is courtship.
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Udvaranje je udvaranje.
07:03
And then we ask, "Are they conscious?"
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A potom se pitamo, "Jesu li oni svjesni?"
07:07
When you get general anesthesia,
it makes you unconscious,
it makes you unconscious,
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Kada primite opću anesteziju,
postanete nesvjesni,
postanete nesvjesni,
07:10
which means you have
no sensation of anything.
no sensation of anything.
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što znači da nemate
nikakav osjećaj ni za što.
nikakav osjećaj ni za što.
07:13
Consciousness is simply
the thing that feels like something.
the thing that feels like something.
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Svjesnost je samo sposobnost
da osjećamo nešto.
da osjećamo nešto.
07:17
If you see, if you hear, if you feel,
if you're aware of anything,
if you're aware of anything,
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Ako vidite, čujete, osjećate,
ako išta uočavate,
ako išta uočavate,
07:21
you are conscious, and they are conscious.
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tada ste svjesni, kao što su i oni.
07:27
Some people say
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Neki ljudi tvrde
07:28
well, there are certain things
that make humans humans,
that make humans humans,
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da postoje određene stvari
koje ljude čine ljudima,
koje ljude čine ljudima,
07:30
and one of those things is empathy.
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a jedna od tih stvari je empatija.
07:32
Empathy is the mind's ability
to match moods with your companions.
to match moods with your companions.
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Empatija je sposobnost uma da uskladi
vaše raspoloženje s onima drugih ljudi.
vaše raspoloženje s onima drugih ljudi.
07:39
It's a very useful thing.
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To je vrlo korisno.
07:41
If your companions start to move quickly,
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Ako se ljudi oko vas počnu ubrzano kretati
07:43
you have to feel like
you need to hurry up.
you need to hurry up.
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imat ćete potrebu da požurite.
07:45
We're all in a hurry now.
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Sada smo svi u žurbi.
07:47
The oldest form of empathy
is contagious fear.
is contagious fear.
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Najstariji oblik empatije
je zarazan strah.
je zarazan strah.
07:50
If your companions suddenly
startle and fly away,
startle and fly away,
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Ako se ljudi oko vas
odjednom uplaše i pobjegnu,
odjednom uplaše i pobjegnu,
07:53
it does not work very well for you to say,
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nije najbolja solucija da
ostanete na tom mjestu,
ostanete na tom mjestu,
07:55
"Jeez, I wonder why everybody just left."
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"Ajme, pitam se zašto su svi pobjegli."
07:58
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:03
Empathy is old, but empathy,
like everything else in life,
like everything else in life,
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Empatija je stara, ali kao i sve u životu,
08:06
comes on a sliding scale
and has its elaboration.
and has its elaboration.
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ovisi o raznim faktorima
i ima više oblika.
i ima više oblika.
08:10
So there's basic empathy:
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
you feel sad, it makes me sad.
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Postoji osnovna empatija: ti si tužan,
i to mene čini tužnim.
i to mene čini tužnim.
08:14
I see you happy, it makes me happy.
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Vidim da si sretan i to mene čini sretnim.
08:17
Then there's something
that I call sympathy,
that I call sympathy,
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Postoji nešto što ja zovem sućut,
08:19
a little more removed:
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1860
to je malo drukčije:
08:22
"I'm sorry to hear that your grandmother
has just passed away.
has just passed away.
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3467
"Žao mi je što ti je baka
nedavno preminula."
nedavno preminula."
08:25
I don't feel that same grief,
but I get it; I know what you feel
but I get it; I know what you feel
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"Ne osjećam jednaku tugu, ali je
razumijem; znam kako se osjećaš
razumijem; znam kako se osjećaš
08:29
and it concerns me."
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1413
i to me brine."
08:30
And then if we're motivated
to act on sympathy,
to act on sympathy,
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Ako smo motivirani da
djelujemo u skladu sa sućuti,
djelujemo u skladu sa sućuti,
08:33
I call that compassion.
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1806
to nazivam suosjećanjem.
08:36
Far from being the thing
that makes us human,
that makes us human,
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Ne samo da empatija nije to
što nas čini ljudskim bićima,
što nas čini ljudskim bićima,
08:39
human empathy is far from perfect.
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ona nije nimalo savršena.
08:42
We round up empathic creatures,
we kill them and we eat them.
we kill them and we eat them.
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Okupljamo empatična stvorenja,
ubijamo ih i jedemo.
ubijamo ih i jedemo.
08:48
Now, maybe you say OK,
well, those are different species.
well, those are different species.
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Možda tvrdite da su to drukčije vrste.
08:50
That's just predation,
and humans are predators.
and humans are predators.
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3718
To je samo predatorstvo,
a ljudi su predatori.
a ljudi su predatori.
08:54
But we don't treat our own kind
too well either.
too well either.
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No mi se niti prema svojoj vlastitoj
vrsti ne ophodimo dobro.
vrsti ne ophodimo dobro.
09:01
People who seem to know
only one thing about animal behavior
only one thing about animal behavior
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Ljudi koji poznaju samo jednu
komponentu ponašanja životinja
komponentu ponašanja životinja
09:04
know that you must never attribute
human thoughts and emotions
human thoughts and emotions
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znaju da nikada ne bismo smjeli
pridavati ljudske misli i osjećaje
pridavati ljudske misli i osjećaje
09:08
to other species.
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1801
drugim vrstama.
09:10
Well, I think that's silly,
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538723
1821
Ja smatram da je to glupo,
09:12
because attributing human thoughts
and emotions to other species
and emotions to other species
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4122
jer pridavanjem ljudskih misli i
osjećaja drugim vrstama
osjećaja drugim vrstama
09:16
is the best first guess about what
they're doing and how they're feeling,
they're doing and how they're feeling,
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4251
najbolje možemo pogoditi što
one rade i kako se osjećaju,
one rade i kako se osjećaju,
09:20
because their brains
are basically the same as ours.
are basically the same as ours.
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jer su njihovi mozgovi u
načelu jednaki našem.
načelu jednaki našem.
09:24
They have the same structures.
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1731
Imaju iste strukture.
09:26
The same hormones that create
mood and motivation in us
mood and motivation in us
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Isti hormoni koji stvaraju raspoloženja
i motivaciju kod nas
i motivaciju kod nas
09:31
are in those brains as well.
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2258
nalaze se i u njihovim mozgovima.
09:35
It is not scientific to say that they
are hungry when they're hunting
are hungry when they're hunting
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Nije znanstveno ako kažemo
da su gladni kada love,
da su gladni kada love,
09:40
and they're tired when
their tongues are hanging out,
their tongues are hanging out,
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i da su umorni kada im jezici vise,
09:43
and then say when they're playing
with their children
with their children
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i onda reći kada se igraju
sa svojim mladuncima
sa svojim mladuncima
09:45
and acting joyful and happy,
165
573829
1911
i ponašaju radosno i sretno,
09:47
we have no idea if they can possibly
be experiencing anything.
be experiencing anything.
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nemamo pojma o tome mogu
li oni uopće išta osjećati.
li oni uopće išta osjećati.
09:52
That is not scientific.
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580577
1994
To nije znanstveno.
09:55
So OK, so a reporter said to me,
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2685
Jedan novinar mi je rekao,
09:58
"Maybe, but how do you really know
that other animals can think and feel?"
that other animals can think and feel?"
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4308
"Možda, ali kako zaista znate da druge
životinje mogu misliti i osjećati?"
životinje mogu misliti i osjećati?"
10:02
And I started to rifle
through all the hundreds
through all the hundreds
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3055
Počeo sam brzinski
prelijetati preko stotinu
prelijetati preko stotinu
10:05
of scientific references
that I put in my book
that I put in my book
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2499
znanstvenih poveznica koje
sam uvrstio u svoju knjigu
sam uvrstio u svoju knjigu
10:08
and I realized that the answer
was right in the room with me.
was right in the room with me.
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3240
i onda sam shvatio da se
odgovor nalazio u toj istoj sobi.
odgovor nalazio u toj istoj sobi.
10:11
When my dog gets off the rug
and comes over to me --
and comes over to me --
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3753
Kada se moj pas digne s tepiha i priđe mi,
10:15
not to the couch, to me --
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603303
1762
ne kauču nego meni,
10:17
and she rolls over on her back
and exposes her belly,
and exposes her belly,
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605089
4177
i izvali se na leđa da otkrije trbuh,
10:21
she has had the thought,
"I would like my belly rubbed.
"I would like my belly rubbed.
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2868
prije toga je pomislila, "Želim da
me počeše po trbuhu.
me počeše po trbuhu.
10:26
I know that I can go over to Carl,
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2536
Znam da mogu doći do Carla,
10:29
he will understand what I'm asking.
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2313
on će razumjeti što ga tražim.
10:32
I know I can trust him
because we're family.
because we're family.
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2496
Znam da mu mogu vjerovati,
jer smo obitelj.
jer smo obitelj.
10:35
He'll get the job done,
and it will feel good."
and it will feel good."
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623406
2715
On će to napraviti i
sjajno ću se osjećati."
sjajno ću se osjećati."
10:38
(Laughter)
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1886
(Smijeh)
10:40
She has thought and she has felt,
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3329
Ona je mislila i osjećala,
10:43
and it's really not
more complicated than that.
more complicated than that.
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2664
i istina zaista nije
kompliciranija od toga.
kompliciranija od toga.
10:46
But we see other animals
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
and we say, "Oh look, killer whales,
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Međutim, vidimo druge životinje
i kažemo, "Oh vidi, kit ubojica,
i kažemo, "Oh vidi, kit ubojica,
10:50
wolves, elephants:
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638733
2410
vukovi, slonovi:
10:53
that's not how they see it."
186
641167
1611
oni to ne doživljavaju na isti način."
10:55
That tall-finned male is L41.
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4294
Ovaj mužjak s visokom perajom je L41.
11:00
He's 38 years old.
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648032
2047
Ima 38 godina.
11:02
The female right on his left side is L22.
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3472
Ženka s njegove lijeve strane je L22.
11:05
She's 44.
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653899
1552
Ona ima 44 godine.
11:07
They've known each other for decades.
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2635
Oni se znaju desetljećima.
11:10
They know exactly who they are.
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658650
1972
Točno znaju tko su.
11:12
They know who their friends are.
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1551
Znaju tko su im prijatelji.
11:14
They know who their rivals are.
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1698
Znaju tko su im protivnici.
11:15
Their life follows the arc of a career.
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663943
2113
Život im se odvija poput karijere.
11:18
They know where they are all the time.
196
666802
2234
Svo vrijeme znaju gdje se nalaze.
11:22
This is an elephant named Philo.
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670863
2375
Ovo je slon Philo.
11:25
He was a young male.
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673667
1828
Bio je mladi mužjak.
11:27
This is him four days later.
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675519
1818
Ovo je on nakon četiri dana.
11:30
Humans not only can feel grief,
we create an awful lot of it.
we create an awful lot of it.
200
678999
5330
Ljudi ne samo da osjećaju tugu, već je
mogu i prouzročiti u velikim količinama.
mogu i prouzročiti u velikim količinama.
11:38
We want to carve their teeth.
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686648
2314
Želimo izrezbariti njihove zube.
11:42
Why can't we wait for them to die?
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690153
3304
Zašto ne možemo pričekati da uginu?
11:47
Elephants once ranged from the shores
of the Mediterranean Sea
of the Mediterranean Sea
203
695998
3468
Slonovi su nekoć obitavali od
obala Sredozemnog mora
obala Sredozemnog mora
11:51
all the way down to the Cape of Good Hope.
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699490
2075
pa sve do Rta dobre nade.
11:53
In 1980, there were vast
strongholds of elephant range
strongholds of elephant range
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701589
3386
Godine 1980. još su postojala velika
uporišta gdje su slonovi obitavali
uporišta gdje su slonovi obitavali
11:56
in Central and Eastern Africa.
206
704999
2188
u središnjoj i istočnoj Africi.
11:59
And now their range is shattered
into little shards.
into little shards.
207
707211
4337
Sada se njihov prostor
sveo na sitna područja.
sveo na sitna područja.
12:03
This is the geography of an animal
that we are driving to extinction,
that we are driving to extinction,
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711572
4679
To je zemljopis životinje
koja će izumrijeti,
koja će izumrijeti,
12:08
a fellow being, the most
magnificent creature on land.
magnificent creature on land.
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716275
3849
biće blisko nama, najveličanstveniji
stvor na zemlji.
stvor na zemlji.
12:13
Of course, we take much better care
of our wildlife in the United States.
of our wildlife in the United States.
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721288
4028
Naravno, mnogo bolje brinemo
za divlji svijet u SAD-u.
za divlji svijet u SAD-u.
12:17
In Yellowstone National Park,
we killed every single wolf.
we killed every single wolf.
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725681
4235
U nacionalnom parku Yellowstone,
istrijebili smo apsolutno sve vukove.
istrijebili smo apsolutno sve vukove.
12:21
We killed every single wolf
south of the Canadian border, actually.
south of the Canadian border, actually.
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3449
Istrijebili smo svakog vuka južno
od granice s Kanadom.
od granice s Kanadom.
12:25
But in the park, park rangers
did that in the 1920s,
did that in the 1920s,
213
733413
4393
No u Yellowstoneu su to učinili
čuvari parka 1920-ih,
čuvari parka 1920-ih,
12:29
and then 60 years later
they had to bring them back,
they had to bring them back,
214
737830
2591
a 60 godina poslije morali su ih vratiti,
12:32
because the elk numbers
had gotten out of control.
had gotten out of control.
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740445
2907
budući da se broj jelena oteo kontroli.
12:36
And then people came.
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1274
Zatim su došli ljudi.
12:37
People came by the thousands
to see the wolves,
to see the wolves,
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745809
3724
Nekoliko tisuća ljudi
došlo je vidjeti te vukove,
došlo je vidjeti te vukove,
12:41
the most accessibly
visible wolves in the world.
visible wolves in the world.
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749557
3495
koji su danas postali
najpristupačniji za promatranje.
najpristupačniji za promatranje.
12:45
And I went there and I watched
this incredible family of wolves.
this incredible family of wolves.
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753512
3252
Otišao sam tamo i promatrao
tu nevjerojatnu obitelj vukova.
tu nevjerojatnu obitelj vukova.
12:48
A pack is a family.
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756788
1453
Čopor je obitelj.
12:50
It has some breeding adults
and the young of several generations.
and the young of several generations.
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3575
Ima nekoliko odraslih rasplodnih jedinki
i mladunčad od nekoliko generacija.
i mladunčad od nekoliko generacija.
12:55
And I watched the most famous, most stable
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
pack in Yellowstone National Park.
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763158
4616
Promatrao sam najslavniji
i najstabilniji čopor u parku.
i najstabilniji čopor u parku.
13:00
And then, when they wandered
just outside the border,
just outside the border,
223
768370
3130
Zatim, kada su samo malo
odlutali preko granice parka,
odlutali preko granice parka,
13:03
two of their adults were killed,
224
771524
2681
dvoje odraslih bilo je ubijeno,
13:06
including the mother,
225
774229
2253
uključujući i majku,
13:08
which we sometimes call the alpha female.
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776506
2178
koju ponekad nazivamo alfa ženkom.
13:11
The rest of the family immediately
descended into sibling rivalry.
descended into sibling rivalry.
227
779502
4243
Među ostalim članovima obitelji
odmah se razvilo suparništvo.
odmah se razvilo suparništvo.
13:16
Sisters kicked out other sisters.
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784871
2241
Jedne su sestre izbacile
iz čopora druge sestre.
iz čopora druge sestre.
13:19
That one on the left tried for days
to rejoin her family.
to rejoin her family.
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787565
3481
Ona s lijeva danima se pokušavala
ponovo pridružiti svojoj obitelji.
ponovo pridružiti svojoj obitelji.
13:23
They wouldn't let her
because they were jealous of her.
because they were jealous of her.
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791070
2692
Nisu je puštali jer su bili
ljubomorni na nju.
ljubomorni na nju.
13:25
She was getting too much attention
from two new males,
from two new males,
231
793786
2813
Dobivala je previše pažnje
od dvoje mužjaka,
od dvoje mužjaka,
13:28
and she was the precocious one.
232
796623
2018
i rano je postala spolno zrela.
13:30
That was too much for them.
233
798665
1653
To je za njih bilo previše.
13:32
She wound up wandering
outside the park and getting shot.
outside the park and getting shot.
234
800342
2725
Na kraju je odlutala izvan parka
gdje su je upucali.
gdje su je upucali.
13:36
The alpha male wound up
being ejected from his own family.
being ejected from his own family.
235
804463
3409
Alfa mužjaka odbacila je
njegova vlastita obitelj.
njegova vlastita obitelj.
13:40
As winter was coming in,
236
808436
2003
Kako se približavala zima,
13:42
he lost his territory,
his hunting support,
his hunting support,
237
810463
3750
izgubio je svoj teritorij,
podršku u lovu,
podršku u lovu,
13:46
the members of his family and his mate.
238
814237
2471
članove svoje obitelji i družicu.
13:50
We cause so much pain to them.
239
818883
3624
Nanosimo im toliko boli.
13:55
The mystery is, why don't
they hurt us more than they do?
they hurt us more than they do?
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4960
Prava je zagonetka zašto oni nas
ne ranjavaju više nego mi njih.
ne ranjavaju više nego mi njih.
14:01
This whale had just finished eating
part of a grey whale
part of a grey whale
241
829855
3198
Ovaj kit upravo je pojeo dio sivog kita
14:05
with his companions
who had killed that whale.
who had killed that whale.
242
833077
2579
sa svojim suradnicima
koji su ubili tog kita.
koji su ubili tog kita.
14:07
Those people in the boat
had nothing at all to fear.
had nothing at all to fear.
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835680
3084
Ovi ljudi na brodu nisu imali
nikakvog razloga za strah.
nikakvog razloga za strah.
14:11
This whale is T20.
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839999
1989
Ovaj kit je T20.
14:14
He had just finished tearing a seal
into three pieces with two companions.
into three pieces with two companions.
245
842488
4251
Upravo je rastrgao tuljana na tri dijela
s drugom dvojicom kitova.
s drugom dvojicom kitova.
14:19
The seal weighed about as much
as the people in the boat.
as the people in the boat.
246
847168
2692
Taj je tuljan težio otprilike
koliko i ljudi na brodu.
koliko i ljudi na brodu.
14:21
They had nothing to fear.
247
849884
1503
Nisu imali razloga bojati se.
14:24
They eat seals.
248
852189
1422
Oni jedu tuljane.
14:26
Why don't they eat us?
249
854699
1686
Zašto ne jedu nas?
14:30
Why can we trust them around our toddlers?
250
858823
3760
Kako to da im možemo vjerovati
kada su nam u blizini djece?
kada su nam u blizini djece?
14:36
Why is it that killer whales have returned
to researchers lost in thick fog
to researchers lost in thick fog
251
864488
5902
Kako to da su se kitovi ubojice vraćali
istraživačima izgubljenima u gustoj magli
istraživačima izgubljenima u gustoj magli
14:42
and led them miles until the fog parted
252
870414
3330
i vodili ih miljama dok
se magla nije dignula
se magla nije dignula
14:45
and the researchers' home
was right there on the shoreline?
was right there on the shoreline?
253
873768
3165
a njihovi domovi ih dočekali na obali?
14:48
And that's happened more than one time.
254
876957
2016
To se dogodilo nekoliko puta.
14:53
In the Bahamas, there's a woman
named Denise Herzing,
named Denise Herzing,
255
881171
2575
Denise Herzing živi na Bahamima,
14:55
and she studies spotted dolphins
and they know her.
and they know her.
256
883770
3324
proučava pjegave dupine i oni je poznaju.
14:59
She knows them very well.
She knows who they all are.
She knows who they all are.
257
887118
2598
Oan ih jako dobro poznaje.
Zna tko je svatko od njih.
Zna tko je svatko od njih.
15:01
They know her.
They recognize the research boat.
They recognize the research boat.
258
889740
2262
Oni poznaju nju.
Prepoznaju istraživački brod.
Prepoznaju istraživački brod.
15:04
When she shows up,
it's a big happy reunion.
it's a big happy reunion.
259
892026
2230
Kada se ona pojavi, nastupa
veliko radosno okupljanje.
veliko radosno okupljanje.
15:06
Except, one time showed up and they
didn't want to come near the boat,
didn't want to come near the boat,
260
894280
3315
Međutim, jednom se pojavila,
a oni se nisu htjeli približiti brodu
a oni se nisu htjeli približiti brodu
15:09
and that was really strange.
261
897619
2074
što je bilo jako neobično.
15:11
And they couldn't figure out
what was going on
what was going on
262
899717
2164
Nisu mogli shvatiti što se događa
15:13
until somebody came out on deck
263
901905
1500
dok netko nije izišao na palubu
15:15
and announced that one
of the people onboard had died
of the people onboard had died
264
903429
2635
i priopćio da je jedna
osoba na brodu umrla
osoba na brodu umrla
15:18
during a nap in his bunk.
265
906088
1771
tijekom spavanja u svome ležaju.
15:20
How could dolphins know
that one of the human hearts
that one of the human hearts
266
908740
3926
Kako su dupini mogli znati da je
jedno srce osoba na brodu
jedno srce osoba na brodu
15:24
had just stopped?
267
912690
1469
upravo prestalo kucati?
15:26
Why would they care?
268
914818
2290
Zašto bi ih to brinulo?
15:29
And why would it spook them?
269
917132
2193
I zašto bi ih to uplašilo?
15:33
These mysterious things just hint at
all of the things that are going on
all of the things that are going on
270
921111
5299
Ove zagonetne stvari samo nagovještavaju
sve ono što se događa
sve ono što se događa
15:38
in the minds that are with us on Earth
271
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u umovima koji s nama dijele Zemlju
15:41
that we almost never think about at all.
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a o kojima mi gotovo nikad ne razmišljamo.
15:46
At an aquarium in South Africa
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U akvariju u Južnoj Africi
15:48
was a little baby bottle-nosed
dolphin named Dolly.
dolphin named Dolly.
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nalazila se beba pliskavice zvana Dolly.
15:52
She was nursing, and one day
a keeper took a cigarette break
a keeper took a cigarette break
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Još je sisala mlijeko i jednoga je dana
čuvar uzeo pauzu za cigaretu.
čuvar uzeo pauzu za cigaretu.
15:58
and he was looking into the window
into their pool, smoking.
into their pool, smoking.
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Pušio je i promatrao
njihov bazen kroz staklo.
njihov bazen kroz staklo.
16:02
Dolly came over and looked at him,
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Dolly mu je prišla i pogledala ga,
16:04
went back to her mother,
nursed for a minute or two,
nursed for a minute or two,
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potom se vratila majci, dojila par minuta,
16:08
came back to the window
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i onda se vratila staklu
16:10
and released a cloud of milk
that enveloped her head like smoke.
that enveloped her head like smoke.
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i ispustila oblak mlijeka koji
joj je obavio glavu poput dima.
joj je obavio glavu poput dima.
16:16
Somehow, this baby bottle-nosed dolphin
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Toj je bebi pliskavici nekako
16:19
got the idea of using milk
to represent smoke.
to represent smoke.
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sinula ideja da bi mlijeko
moglo predstavljati dim.
moglo predstavljati dim.
16:24
When human beings use one thing
to represent another,
to represent another,
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Kada ljudska bića koriste jednu stvar
da bi prikazali nešto drugo,
da bi prikazali nešto drugo,
16:27
we call that art.
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2025
to onda zovemo umjetnost.
16:29
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
16:31
The things that make us human
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Stvari koje nas čine ljudima
16:33
are not the things
that we think make us human.
that we think make us human.
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nisu one za koje mislimo
da nas čine ljudima.
da nas čine ljudima.
16:36
What makes us human is that,
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Ovo nas čini ljudima:
16:39
of all these things that our minds
and their minds have,
and their minds have,
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od svih stvari koje posjeduju
naši i njihovi umovi,
naši i njihovi umovi,
16:42
we are the most extreme.
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mi smo najekstremniji.
16:46
We are the most compassionate,
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Mi smo najsuosjećajnija,
16:48
most violent, most creative
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najnasilnija, najkreativnija,
16:51
and most destructive animal
that has ever been on this planet,
that has ever been on this planet,
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i najdestruktivnija životinja koja je
ikada živjela na ovome planetu,
ikada živjela na ovome planetu,
16:56
and we are all of those things
all jumbled up together.
all jumbled up together.
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mi smo sazdani od svih tih
izmješanih karakeristika.
izmješanih karakeristika.
17:01
But love is not the thing
that makes us human.
that makes us human.
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4238
No ljubav nije to što nas čini ljudima.
17:06
It's not special to us.
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Nije rezervirana samo za nas.
17:09
We are not the only ones
who care about our mates.
who care about our mates.
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Ljudi nisu jedini koji
brinu za svoje partnere.
brinu za svoje partnere.
17:13
We are not the only ones
who care about our children.
who care about our children.
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Nismo jedini koji brinemo za svoju djecu.
17:18
Albatrosses frequently fly six,
sometimes ten thousand miles
sometimes ten thousand miles
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Albatrosi često lete šest,
katkad i deset tisuća milja
katkad i deset tisuća milja
17:23
over several weeks to deliver
one meal, one big meal,
one meal, one big meal,
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tijekom nekoliko tjedana kako
bi donijeli jedan veliki obrok,
bi donijeli jedan veliki obrok,
17:28
to their chick who is waiting for them.
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1036409
1976
svojem ptiću koji ih čeka.
17:30
They nest on the most remote islands
in the oceans of the world,
in the oceans of the world,
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4398
Gnijezde se na najudaljenijim
otocima u oceanima,
otocima u oceanima,
17:35
and this is what it looks like.
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1043257
2373
i to izgleda ovako.
17:39
Passing life from one generation
to the next is the chain of being.
to the next is the chain of being.
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Prenošenje života s jedne generacije na
sljedeću predstavlja vijenac postojanja.
sljedeću predstavlja vijenac postojanja.
17:43
If that stops, it all goes away.
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Ako to stane, sve se urušava.
17:46
If anything is sacred, that is,
and into that sacred relationship
and into that sacred relationship
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Ako je išta sveto, onda je to
upravo ovo, a tu svetu vezu
upravo ovo, a tu svetu vezu
17:51
comes our plastic trash.
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1059649
2831
ulazi naše plastično smeće.
17:54
All of these birds
have plastic in them now.
have plastic in them now.
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1062504
2687
U svim tim pticama
sada se nalazi plastika.
sada se nalazi plastika.
17:57
This is an albatross six months old,
ready to fledge --
ready to fledge --
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1065990
4651
Ovo je šestomjesečni albatros,
samo što nije dobio perje --
samo što nije dobio perje --
18:02
died, packed with red cigarette lighters.
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4001
uginuo je napunjen crvenim upaljačima.
18:06
This is not the relationship
we are supposed to have
we are supposed to have
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3285
Ovo nije veza kakvu bismo trebali imati
18:09
with the rest of the world.
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s ostatkom svijeta.
18:11
But we, who have named
ourselves after our brains,
ourselves after our brains,
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No mi, koji smo si nadjenuli
ime po našem mozgu,
ime po našem mozgu,
18:16
never think about the consequences.
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nikada ne razmišljamo o posljedicama.
18:21
When we welcome new
human life into the world,
human life into the world,
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Kada se radujemo novom
ljudskom životu u svijetu,
ljudskom životu u svijetu,
18:24
we welcome our babies
into the company of other creatures.
into the company of other creatures.
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1092185
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uvodimo svoje bebe u
društvo drugih živih bića.
društvo drugih živih bića.
18:28
We paint animals on the walls.
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2093
Slikamo životinje po zidovima.
18:30
We don't paint cell phones.
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Ne slikamo mobitele.
18:32
We don't paint work cubicles.
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2143
Ne slikamo radna mjesta.
18:34
We paint animals to show them
that we are not alone.
that we are not alone.
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Slikamo životinje da
pokažemo kako nismo sami.
pokažemo kako nismo sami.
18:39
We have company.
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Imamo društvo.
18:42
And every one of those animals
in every painting of Noah's ark,
in every painting of Noah's ark,
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Svaka od tih životinja na
svakoj slici Noine arke,
svakoj slici Noine arke,
18:47
deemed worthy of salvation
is in mortal danger now,
is in mortal danger now,
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dostojna spasenja sada
je u životnoj opasnosti,
je u životnoj opasnosti,
18:51
and their flood is us.
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a njihov opći potop smo mi.
18:55
So we started with a question:
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Započeli smo pitanjem:
18:58
Do they love us?
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Vole li oni nas?
19:01
We're going to ask another question.
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Postavit ćemo drugo pitanje.
19:04
Are we capable of using what we have
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Jesmo li mi sposobni
upotrijebiti to što imamo
upotrijebiti to što imamo
19:09
to care enough to simply
let them continue?
let them continue?
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1137918
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da nam bude dovoljno stalo da im
jednostavno dopustimo da nastave dalje?
jednostavno dopustimo da nastave dalje?
19:16
Thank you very much.
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Hvala vam.
19:18
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Carl Safina - Ecologist, writerCarl Safina's writing explores the scientific, moral and social dimensions of our relationship with nature.
Why you should listen
Carl Safina explores how the ocean is changing and what those changes mean for wildlife and for people.
Safina is author of seven books, including Song for the Blue Ocean, which was a New York Times Notable Book of the Year, Eye of the Albatross, Voyage of the Turtle and The View From Lazy Point. Safina is founding president of The Safina Center at Stony Brook University, where he also co-chairs the University's Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science. A winner of the 2012 Orion Award and a MacArthur Prize, among others, his work has been featured in outlets such as The New York Times, National Geographic, CNN.com and The Huffington Post, and he hosts “Saving the Ocean” on PBS.
His latest book, Beyond Words: What Animals Think And Feel, explores the inner lives of animals.
Carl Safina | Speaker | TED.com