TEDxCreativeCoast
Celeste Headlee: 10 ways to have a better conversation
Celeste Headlee: 营造更好交谈的10条建议
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当你的工作仰仗于你和他人的交谈有多好的时候，你会学到很多交流技巧——很多我们都掌握得不好。Celeste Headlee 在广播主持领域工作了十几年，她知道高质量交谈的要素：真诚、简明、清晰，以及健康地倾听。在这场发人深省的演讲中，她分享了营造良好交谈的10个有效准则。“走出门去，和他人交谈，听别人说，”，她说，“以及最重要的，准备好大吃一惊。”
Celeste Headlee - Writer and radio host
Celeste Headlee's years of interview experience give her a unique perspective on what makes for a good conversation. Full bio
Celeste Headlee's years of interview experience give her a unique perspective on what makes for a good conversation. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
All right, I want to see a show of hands:
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好的，我想让大家举手示意一下，
有多少人曾经
在 Facebook 上拉黑过好友，
在 Facebook 上拉黑过好友，
00:14
how many of you have
unfriended someone on Facebook
unfriended someone on Facebook
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因为他们发表过关于政治，宗教，
儿童权益，或者食物等
儿童权益，或者食物等
00:17
because they said something offensive
about politics or religion,
about politics or religion,
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不恰当的言论？
00:21
childcare, food?
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00:23
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:25
And how many of you
know at least one person that you avoid
know at least one person that you avoid
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有多少人至少
有一个不想见的人，
有一个不想见的人，
因为你就是不想
和对方说话？
和对方说话？
00:28
because you just don't want
to talk to them?
to talk to them?
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00:30
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:32
You know, it used to be that in order
to have a polite conversation,
to have a polite conversation,
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要知道，在过去
想要一段礼貌的交谈，
想要一段礼貌的交谈，
我们只要遵循亨利·希金斯
在《窈窕淑女》中的忠告：
在《窈窕淑女》中的忠告：
00:36
we just had to follow the advice
of Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady":
of Henry Higgins in "My Fair Lady":
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只谈论天气和你的健康状况就行了。
00:39
Stick to the weather and your health.
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但这些年随着气候变化
以及反对疫苗运动的开展 ——
以及反对疫苗运动的开展 ——
00:41
But these days, with climate change
and anti-vaxxing, those subjects --
and anti-vaxxing, those subjects --
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（笑声）
00:44
(Laughter)
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这招也不怎么管用了。
00:46
are not safe either.
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00:47
So this world that we live in,
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因此，在我们生活的这个世界，
00:50
this world in which every conversation
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这个每一次交谈
00:53
has the potential
to devolve into an argument,
to devolve into an argument,
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都有可能发展为争论的世界，
政客无法彼此交谈，
00:55
where our politicians
can't speak to one another
can't speak to one another
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00:57
and where even the most trivial of issues
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甚至为那些鸡毛蒜皮的事情
00:59
have someone fighting both passionately
for it and against it, it's not normal.
for it and against it, it's not normal.
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都有人群情激昂地赞成或反对，
这太不正常了。
这太不正常了。
01:04
Pew Research did a study
of 10,000 American adults,
of 10,000 American adults,
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皮尤研究中心对一万名
美国成年人做了一次调查，
美国成年人做了一次调查，
发现此刻我们的偏激程度，
01:08
and they found that at this moment,
we are more polarized,
we are more polarized,
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01:10
we are more divided,
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我们立场鲜明的程度，
比历史上任何时期都要高。
01:12
than we ever have been in history.
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01:14
We're less likely to compromise,
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我们更不倾向于妥协，
01:16
which means we're
not listening to each other.
not listening to each other.
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这意味着我们没有倾听彼此。
我们做的各种决定，
选择生活在何处，
选择生活在何处，
01:18
And we make decisions about where to live,
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与谁结婚甚至和谁交朋友，
01:21
who to marry and even
who our friends are going to be,
who our friends are going to be,
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都只基于我们已有的信念。
01:23
based on what we already believe.
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01:26
Again, that means
we're not listening to each other.
we're not listening to each other.
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再重复一遍，
这说明我们没有倾听彼此。
这说明我们没有倾听彼此。
交谈需要平衡讲述和倾听，
01:29
A conversation requires a balance
between talking and listening,
between talking and listening,
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而不知怎么的，
我们却渐渐失掉了这种平衡。
我们却渐渐失掉了这种平衡。
01:32
and somewhere along the way,
we lost that balance.
we lost that balance.
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技术进步是部分原因。
01:35
Now, part of that is due to technology.
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比如智能手机，
现在就在你们手里，
现在就在你们手里，
01:37
The smartphones that you all
either have in your hands
either have in your hands
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或者就在旁边，随手就能拿到。
01:39
or close enough that you could
grab them really quickly.
grab them really quickly.
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据皮尤的研究称，
01:42
According to Pew Research,
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大约三分之一的美国青少年
每天发送超过一百条短信。
每天发送超过一百条短信。
01:43
about a third of American teenagers
send more than a hundred texts a day.
send more than a hundred texts a day.
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而这中间很多人，几乎是所有人，
更倾向于给朋友发短信，
更倾向于给朋友发短信，
01:48
And many of them, almost most of them,
are more likely to text their friends
are more likely to text their friends
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而不是面对面的交谈。
01:53
than they are to talk
to them face to face.
to them face to face.
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01:56
There's this great piece in The Atlantic.
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《大西洋》杂志
登过一篇很棒的文章，
登过一篇很棒的文章，
作者是高中教师
保罗·巴恩韦尔。
保罗·巴恩韦尔。
01:58
It was written by a high school teacher
named Paul Barnwell.
named Paul Barnwell.
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他给自己的学生一项交流任务，
02:01
And he gave his kids
a communication project.
a communication project.
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希望教会他们如何不借助笔记
针对某一话题发表演讲。
针对某一话题发表演讲。
02:03
He wanted to teach them how to speak
on a specific subject without using notes.
on a specific subject without using notes.
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然后他说：“我开始意识到……”
02:06
And he said this: "I came to realize..."
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02:08
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:12
"I came to realize
that conversational competence
that conversational competence
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“我开始意识到交流能力
可能是最被我们忽视的，
没有好好教授的技能。
没有好好教授的技能。
02:15
might be the single
most overlooked skill we fail to teach.
most overlooked skill we fail to teach.
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孩子每天花费数小时
通过屏幕接触创意和其他伙伴，
通过屏幕接触创意和其他伙伴，
02:19
Kids spend hours each day engaging
with ideas and each other through screens,
with ideas and each other through screens,
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但很少有机会
02:23
but rarely do they have an opportunity
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去发掘自己的人际交往技能。”
02:25
to hone their interpersonal
communications skills.
communications skills.
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这听起来很好笑，
但我们必须问问自己：
但我们必须问问自己：
02:28
It might sound like a funny question,
but we have to ask ourselves:
but we have to ask ourselves:
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21世纪，有什么技能
02:31
Is there any 21st-century skill
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会比维持一段连贯、
自信的谈话更为重要？”
自信的谈话更为重要？”
02:33
more important than being able to sustain
coherent, confident conversation?"
coherent, confident conversation?"
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现在，我的职业就是跟别人谈话。
02:39
Now, I make my living talking to people:
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诺贝尔奖获得者、卡车司机、
02:41
Nobel Prize winners, truck drivers,
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亿万富翁、幼儿园老师，
02:43
billionaires, kindergarten teachers,
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州长、水管工。
02:46
heads of state, plumbers.
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我和我喜欢的人交谈，
也和我不喜欢的人交谈。
也和我不喜欢的人交谈。
02:48
I talk to people that I like.
I talk to people that I don't like.
I talk to people that I don't like.
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02:51
I talk to some people that I disagree with
deeply on a personal level.
deeply on a personal level.
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我和在个人层面
非常不认同的人交谈。
非常不认同的人交谈。
但我仍旧和他们有很好的交流。
02:55
But I still have
a great conversation with them.
a great conversation with them.
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所以我希望用接下来的10分钟
教你们如何谈话，
教你们如何谈话，
02:58
So I'd like to spend the next 10 minutes
or so teaching you how to talk
or so teaching you how to talk
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以及如何倾听。
03:02
and how to listen.
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03:04
Many of you have already heard
a lot of advice on this,
a lot of advice on this,
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你们中间很多人已经听过无数建议，
03:07
things like look the person in the eye,
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比如看着对方的眼睛，
03:09
think of interesting topics
to discuss in advance,
to discuss in advance,
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提前想好可以讨论的有趣话题，
注视，点头并且微笑
来表明你的专注，
来表明你的专注，
03:13
look, nod and smile to show
that you're paying attention,
that you're paying attention,
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重复你刚才听到的，或者做总结。
03:18
repeat back what you just heard
or summarize it.
or summarize it.
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我想让你们忘掉所有这些，
03:21
So I want you to forget all of that.
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全都没用。
03:22
It is crap.
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（笑声）
03:24
(Laughter)
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03:27
There is no reason to learn
how to show you're paying attention
how to show you're paying attention
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根本没必要去学习
如何表现你很专心，
如何表现你很专心，
如果你确实很专心。
03:31
if you are in fact paying attention.
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（笑声）
03:35
(Laughter)
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（掌声）
03:36
(Applause)
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03:39
Now, I actually use the exact
same skills as a professional interviewer
same skills as a professional interviewer
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我其实是把作为职业访谈者
一模一样的技巧
一模一样的技巧
03:43
that I do in regular life.
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用在了日常生活中。
03:46
So, I'm going to teach you
how to interview people,
how to interview people,
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好，我要来教你们
如何采访他人，
如何采访他人，
03:49
and that's actually going to help you
learn how to be better conversationalists.
learn how to be better conversationalists.
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这其实会帮助你们学习
如何成为更好的沟通者。
如何成为更好的沟通者。
学习开始一段交谈，
03:53
Learn to have a conversation
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不浪费时间，不感到无聊，
03:55
without wasting your time,
without getting bored,
without getting bored,
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以及，最重要的是，不冒犯任何人。
03:57
and, please God,
without offending anybody.
without offending anybody.
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我们都曾有过很棒的交谈。
04:00
We've all had really great conversations.
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我们都曾有过。
我们知道那是什么感觉。
我们知道那是什么感觉。
04:03
We've had them before.
We know what it's like.
We know what it's like.
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那种结束之后令你感到
很享受，很受鼓舞的交谈，
很享受，很受鼓舞的交谈，
04:05
The kind of conversation where you
walk away feeling engaged and inspired,
walk away feeling engaged and inspired,
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或者令你觉得你和别人
建立了真实的连接，
建立了真实的连接，
04:09
or where you feel
like you've made a real connection
like you've made a real connection
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或者让你完全得到了他人的理解。
04:11
or you've been perfectly understood.
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没有理由说
04:13
There is no reason
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你大部分人际互动
不能成为那样。
不能成为那样。
04:14
why most of your interactions
can't be like that.
can't be like that.
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我有10条基本规则。
我会一条条给你们解释，
我会一条条给你们解释，
04:18
So I have 10 basic rules.
I'm going to walk you through all of them,
I'm going to walk you through all of them,
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但说真的，如果你
选择一条并且熟练掌握，
选择一条并且熟练掌握，
04:21
but honestly, if you just choose
one of them and master it,
one of them and master it,
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你就已经可以享受
更愉快的交谈了。
更愉快的交谈了。
04:25
you'll already enjoy better conversations.
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第一条：不要三心二意。
04:27
Number one: Don't multitask.
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04:30
And I don't mean
just set down your cell phone
just set down your cell phone
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我不是说单纯放下你的手机、
平板电脑、车钥匙，
或者随便什么握在手里的东西。
或者随便什么握在手里的东西。
04:32
or your tablet or your car keys
or whatever is in your hand.
or whatever is in your hand.
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我的意思是，处在当下。
04:35
I mean, be present.
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进入那个情境中去。
04:37
Be in that moment.
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不要想着你之前和老板的争吵。
04:39
Don't think about your argument
you had with your boss.
you had with your boss.
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不要想着你晚饭吃什么。
04:42
Don't think about what
you're going to have for dinner.
you're going to have for dinner.
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如果你想退出交谈，
04:44
If you want to get out
of the conversation,
of the conversation,
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就退出交谈。
04:46
get out of the conversation,
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但不要身在曹营心在汉。
04:48
but don't be half in it
and half out of it.
and half out of it.
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第二条：不要好为人师。
04:50
Number two: Don't pontificate.
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如果你想要表达自己的看法，
04:52
If you want to state your opinion
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又不想留下任何机会让人
回应、争论、反驳或阐发，
回应、争论、反驳或阐发，
04:55
without any opportunity for response
or argument or pushback or growth,
or argument or pushback or growth,
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写博客去。
05:01
write a blog.
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（笑声）
05:02
(Laughter)
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有个很好的理由来说明
我的谈话里为什么不允许有“专家说教”：
我的谈话里为什么不允许有“专家说教”：
05:05
Now, there's a really good reason
why I don't allow pundits on my show:
why I don't allow pundits on my show:
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因为真的很无聊。
05:09
Because they're really boring.
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如果对方是个保守派，
那一定讨厌奥巴马、食品券和堕胎。
那一定讨厌奥巴马、食品券和堕胎。
05:10
If they're conservative, they're going to
hate Obama and food stamps and abortion.
hate Obama and food stamps and abortion.
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如果对方是个自由派，
那一定会讨厌
那一定会讨厌
05:14
If they're liberal, they're going to hate
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大银行、石油公司和迪克·切尼。
05:16
big banks and oil corporations
and Dick Cheney.
and Dick Cheney.
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完全可以预测的。
05:18
Totally predictable.
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你肯定不希望那样。
05:20
And you don't want to be like that.
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你需要在进入每一次交流时
都假定自己可以学习到一些东西。
都假定自己可以学习到一些东西。
05:21
You need to enter every conversation
assuming that you have something to learn.
assuming that you have something to learn.
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著名的治疗师
M.斯科特·派克说过，
M.斯科特·派克说过，
05:27
The famed therapist M. Scott Peck said
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真正的倾听需要把自己放在一边。
05:29
that true listening requires
a setting aside of oneself.
a setting aside of oneself.
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05:34
And sometimes that means
setting aside your personal opinion.
setting aside your personal opinion.
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有时候，这意味着
把你的个人观点放在一边。
把你的个人观点放在一边。
05:38
He said that sensing this acceptance,
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他说感受到这种接纳，
说话的人会变得越来越不脆弱敏感，
05:41
the speaker will become
less and less vulnerable
less and less vulnerable
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因而越来越有可能
打开自己的内心世界，
打开自己的内心世界，
05:43
and more and more likely
to open up the inner recesses
to open up the inner recesses
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呈现给倾听者。
05:46
of his or her mind to the listener.
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再强调一遍，
假定你需要学习新东西。
假定你需要学习新东西。
05:49
Again, assume that you have
something to learn.
something to learn.
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05:52
Bill Nye: "Everyone you will ever meet
knows something that you don't."
knows something that you don't."
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比尔·奈伊说：“每一个你将要
见到的人都有你不知道的东西。”
见到的人都有你不知道的东西。”
05:57
I put it this way:
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我来复述一下：
每个人都是某方面的专家。
05:58
Everybody is an expert in something.
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06:03
Number three: Use open-ended questions.
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第三点：使用开放式问题。
关于这一点，
请参考记者采访的提问方式。
请参考记者采访的提问方式。
06:06
In this case, take a cue from journalists.
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以“谁”、“什么”、“何时”、“何地”、
“为什么”或“如何”开始提问。
“为什么”或“如何”开始提问。
06:08
Start your questions with who,
what, when, where, why or how.
what, when, where, why or how.
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06:11
If you put in a complicated question,
you're going to get a simple answer out.
you're going to get a simple answer out.
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如果你询问一个复杂的问题
将会得到一个简单的回答。
将会得到一个简单的回答。
如果我问你：“你当时恐惧吗？”
06:14
If I ask you, "Were you terrified?"
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你会回应那句话中最有力的词，
06:17
you're going to respond to the most
powerful word in that sentence,
powerful word in that sentence,
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即“恐惧”，而答案将是
“是的”或者“不是”。
“是的”或者“不是”。
06:20
which is "terrified," and the answer is
"Yes, I was" or "No, I wasn't."
"Yes, I was" or "No, I wasn't."
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“你当时气愤吗？”
“是的，我当时气得很。”
“是的，我当时气得很。”
06:23
"Were you angry?" "Yes, I was very angry."
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让对方去描述，
对方才是了解情境的人。
对方才是了解情境的人。
06:25
Let them describe it.
They're the ones that know.
They're the ones that know.
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试着这样问对方：
“那是什么样子？”
“那是什么样子？”
06:28
Try asking them things like,
"What was that like?"
"What was that like?"
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“你感觉怎么样？”
06:31
"How did that feel?"
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因为这样一来，对方可能
需要停下来想一想，
需要停下来想一想，
06:33
Because then they might have to stop
for a moment and think about it,
for a moment and think about it,
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06:37
and you're going to get
a much more interesting response.
a much more interesting response.
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而你会得到更有意思的回答。
第四点：顺其自然。
06:40
Number four: Go with the flow.
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06:43
That means thoughts
will come into your mind
will come into your mind
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也就是说，想法会
自然流入你的头脑，
自然流入你的头脑，
而你需要将它们表达出来。
06:46
and you need to let them
go out of your mind.
go out of your mind.
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我们常听到采访中
06:49
We've heard interviews often
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嘉宾说了几分钟,
06:51
in which a guest is talking
for several minutes
for several minutes
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06:54
and then the host comes back in
and asks a question
and asks a question
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然后主持人回过来问问题,
这问题好像不知道从何而来
或者已经被回答过了。
或者已经被回答过了。
06:56
which seems like it comes out of nowhere,
or it's already been answered.
or it's already been answered.
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这说明主持人可能
两分钟前就没在听，
两分钟前就没在听，
07:00
That means the host probably
stopped listening two minutes ago
stopped listening two minutes ago
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因为他想到了
这个非常机智的问题，
这个非常机智的问题，
07:02
because he thought
of this really clever question,
of this really clever question,
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于是就心心念念
想着问这个问题。
想着问这个问题。
07:06
and he was just bound
and determined to say that.
and determined to say that.
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我们同样也会这么干。
07:09
And we do the exact same thing.
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当我们和某人坐在一起交谈时，
07:11
We're sitting there having
a conversation with someone,
a conversation with someone,
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我们突然想起那次
和休·杰克曼在咖啡店的偶遇。
和休·杰克曼在咖啡店的偶遇。
07:14
and then we remember that time
that we met Hugh Jackman in a coffee shop.
that we met Hugh Jackman in a coffee shop.
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（笑声）
07:17
(Laughter)
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然后我们就不再听了。
07:18
And we stop listening.
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故事和想法总会不断向你涌来，
07:20
Stories and ideas
are going to come to you.
are going to come to you.
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但即便无法阻止，
也不要让它们过多地在头脑中逗留。
也不要让它们过多地在头脑中逗留。
07:22
You need to let them come and let them go.
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07:26
Number five: If you don't know,
say that you don't know.
say that you don't know.
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第五点：如果你不知道，
就说你不知道。
就说你不知道。
07:30
Now, people on the radio,
especially on NPR,
especially on NPR,
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广播节目里的人，尤其在
全国公共广播电台（NPR）中，
全国公共广播电台（NPR）中，
非常明白他们的谈话
会被播放出去。
会被播放出去。
07:33
are much more aware
that they're going on the record,
that they're going on the record,
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所以他们对自己声称专业的地方
07:36
and so they're more careful
about what they claim to be an expert in
about what they claim to be an expert in
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以及言之凿凿的东西会更加小心。
07:39
and what they claim to know for sure.
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要学着这样做。谨言慎行。
07:41
Do that. Err on the side of caution.
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谈话应该是负责任的行为。
07:44
Talk should not be cheap.
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07:46
Number six: Don't equate
your experience with theirs.
your experience with theirs.
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第六条：不要把自己的
经历和他人比较。
经历和他人比较。
07:51
If they're talking
about having lost a family member,
about having lost a family member,
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如果对方谈论失去了家人，
不要就势开始说你失去家人的事情。
07:54
don't start talking about the time
you lost a family member.
you lost a family member.
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如果对方在说工作上的困扰，
07:56
If they're talking about the trouble
they're having at work,
they're having at work,
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不要告诉他们
你多么讨厌你的工作。
你多么讨厌你的工作。
07:59
don't tell them about
how much you hate your job.
how much you hate your job.
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这不一样的，
永远不可能一样。
永远不可能一样。
08:02
It's not the same. It is never the same.
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任何经历都是独一无二的。
08:04
All experiences are individual.
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而且，更重要的是，
这不是在谈论你的事。
这不是在谈论你的事。
08:05
And, more importantly,
it is not about you.
it is not about you.
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08:09
You don't need to take that moment
to prove how amazing you are
to prove how amazing you are
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你不需要在此刻
证明你多么能干，
证明你多么能干，
或者你经受了多少痛苦。
08:13
or how much you've suffered.
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08:15
Somebody asked Stephen Hawking once
what his IQ was, and he said,
what his IQ was, and he said,
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有人曾问史蒂芬·霍金
他的智商是多少，他回答道：
他的智商是多少，他回答道：
“我不知道。拿智商
吹牛的人都是屌丝。”
吹牛的人都是屌丝。”
08:18
"I have no idea. People who brag
about their IQs are losers."
about their IQs are losers."
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（笑声）
08:21
(Laughter)
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交谈不是用来推销自己的。
08:23
Conversations are not
a promotional opportunity.
a promotional opportunity.
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08:28
Number seven:
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第七条：
08:31
Try not to repeat yourself.
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尽量别重复自己的话。
这很咄咄逼人，也很无聊。
08:32
It's condescending,
and it's really boring,
and it's really boring,
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但我们很容易这样做。
08:35
and we tend to do it a lot.
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尤其是在工作交谈中，
或者和孩子的交谈中。
或者和孩子的交谈中。
08:36
Especially in work conversations
or in conversations with our kids,
or in conversations with our kids,
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我们想声明一个观点，
08:40
we have a point to make,
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于是换着方式不停地说。
08:42
so we just keep rephrasing it
over and over.
over and over.
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08:45
Don't do that.
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别这样。
第八条：少说废话。
08:46
Number eight: Stay out of the weeds.
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说白了，没人在乎
08:49
Frankly, people don't care
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那些年份，名字，
08:52
about the years, the names,
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日期等等这些
08:54
the dates, all those details
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你努力试图
在脑中回想的种种细节。
在脑中回想的种种细节。
08:56
that you're struggling
to come up with in your mind.
to come up with in your mind.
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08:59
They don't care.
What they care about is you.
What they care about is you.
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别人不在乎。
他们关注的是你。
他们关注的是你。
09:01
They care about what you're like,
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对方关心你是什么样的人，
和你有什么共同点。
09:04
what you have in common.
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所以忘掉细节吧。
别管它们。
别管它们。
09:05
So forget the details. Leave them out.
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09:08
Number nine:
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第九条：
这不是最后一条，
但是最重要的一条。
但是最重要的一条。
09:10
This is not the last one,
but it is the most important one.
but it is the most important one.
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认真倾听。
09:13
Listen.
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09:14
I cannot tell you how many
really important people have said
really important people have said
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我说不上来到底有多少
重要人士都说过
重要人士都说过
09:18
that listening is perhaps the most,
the number one most important skill
the number one most important skill
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倾听可能是最重要的，
第一重要的
第一重要的
你可以提升的技能。
09:22
that you could develop.
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佛曰——我转述一下，
09:23
Buddha said, and I'm paraphrasing,
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“如果你嘴不停，
你就学不到东西。”
你就学不到东西。”
09:25
"If your mouth is open,
you're not learning."
you're not learning."
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卡尔文·柯立芝曾说：
“从没有人是因为听太多而被开除的。”
“从没有人是因为听太多而被开除的。”
09:28
And Calvin Coolidge said, "No man
ever listened his way out of a job."
ever listened his way out of a job."
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09:32
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
为什么我们不愿倾听彼此？
09:34
Why do we not listen to each other?
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09:36
Number one, we'd rather talk.
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首先，我们更喜欢说。
09:39
When I'm talking, I'm in control.
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我在说话时
一切在我的掌控之中。
一切在我的掌控之中。
我不用去听任何
我不感兴趣的东西。
我不感兴趣的东西。
09:41
I don't have to hear anything
I'm not interested in.
I'm not interested in.
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我是焦点。
09:43
I'm the center of attention.
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我可以强化自己的认同感。
09:45
I can bolster my own identity.
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但还有一个原因：
09:47
But there's another reason:
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我们会受到干扰。
09:48
We get distracted.
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人平均每分钟说
大约225个单词，
大约225个单词，
09:50
The average person talks
at about 225 word per minute,
at about 225 word per minute,
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但我们每分钟可以
听将近500个单词。
听将近500个单词。
09:53
but we can listen at up to
500 words per minute.
500 words per minute.
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所以我们的脑子
被这另外275个单词占据了。
被这另外275个单词占据了。
09:57
So our minds are filling in
those other 275 words.
those other 275 words.
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我知道这很耗费精力
10:01
And look, I know,
it takes effort and energy
it takes effort and energy
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去真正注意听别人讲。
10:05
to actually pay attention to someone,
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但如果你不这么做，
你们就不是在交谈。
你们就不是在交谈。
10:07
but if you can't do that,
you're not in a conversation.
you're not in a conversation.
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你们只不过是两个人
在同一个地方
在同一个地方
10:10
You're just two people shouting out
barely related sentences
barely related sentences
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彼此嚷嚷毫不相关的话。
10:13
in the same place.
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（笑声）
10:14
(Laughter)
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你们必须相互倾听。
10:16
You have to listen to one another.
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史蒂芬·柯维对此
有精彩的论述。
有精彩的论述。
10:19
Stephen Covey said it very beautifully.
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他说：“我们大多数人
都不是为了理解而倾听。
都不是为了理解而倾听。
10:20
He said, "Most of us don't listen
with the intent to understand.
with the intent to understand.
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我们为了回应而听。”
10:24
We listen with the intent to reply."
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10:28
One more rule, number 10,
and it's this one: Be brief.
and it's this one: Be brief.
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最后一条，第十条：
简明扼要。
简明扼要。
“好的交谈就像恰到好处的迷你裙；
足够短，能够吸引人，
足够短，能够吸引人，
10:32
[A good conversation is like a miniskirt;
short enough to retain interest,
short enough to retain interest,
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又足够长，能够包纳（盖住）主体
——我妹妹的比喻”
——我妹妹的比喻”
10:36
but long enough to cover
the subject. -- My Sister]
the subject. -- My Sister]
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（笑声）
10:38
(Laughter)
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（掌声）
10:40
(Applause)
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所有这些都浓缩成
同一个概念，那就是：
同一个概念，那就是：
10:42
All of this boils down to the same
basic concept, and it is this one:
basic concept, and it is this one:
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10:47
Be interested in other people.
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对他人产生兴趣。
我在一个名人外公的身边长大，
10:50
You know, I grew up
with a very famous grandfather,
with a very famous grandfather,
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我家里宾客络绎不绝。
10:52
and there was kind of a ritual in my home.
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访客会前来
和我的外祖父母交谈，
和我的外祖父母交谈，
10:54
People would come over
to talk to my grandparents,
to talk to my grandparents,
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而那些人离开后，
我母亲会过来
我母亲会过来
10:57
and after they would leave,
my mother would come over to us,
my mother would come over to us,
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对我们说：
“你们知道那是谁吗？
“你们知道那是谁吗？
11:00
and she'd say, "Do you know who that was?
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她是美国小姐的亚军。
11:02
She was the runner-up to Miss America.
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他是萨克拉门托市长。
11:03
He was the mayor of Sacramento.
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她拿过普利策奖。
他是俄罗斯芭蕾舞蹈家。”
他是俄罗斯芭蕾舞蹈家。”
11:05
She won a Pulitzer Prize.
He's a Russian ballet dancer."
He's a Russian ballet dancer."
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我在成长中默认了
11:08
And I kind of grew up assuming
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每个人都有不为人知的精彩。
11:12
everyone has some hidden,
amazing thing about them.
amazing thing about them.
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说真的，我想是这一切
让我成为了更好的主持人。
让我成为了更好的主持人。
11:15
And honestly, I think
it's what makes me a better host.
it's what makes me a better host.
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11:19
I keep my mouth shut
as often as I possibly can,
as often as I possibly can,
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我尽量少说话，
但开放自己的思想，
11:22
I keep my mind open,
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永远准备着大吃一惊，
11:23
and I'm always prepared to be amazed,
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而我从不会感到失望。
11:26
and I'm never disappointed.
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11:28
You do the same thing.
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你们也可以这样。
走出门去，和别人交谈，
11:30
Go out, talk to people,
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听别人说，
11:33
listen to people,
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以及最重要的，
准备好大吃一惊。
准备好大吃一惊。
11:34
and, most importantly,
be prepared to be amazed.
be prepared to be amazed.
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11:38
Thanks.
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谢谢。
（掌声）
11:39
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Celeste Headlee - Writer and radio hostCeleste Headlee's years of interview experience give her a unique perspective on what makes for a good conversation.
Why you should listen
Celeste Headlee hosts a daily news/talk show, On Second Thought, on Georgia Public Broadcasting.
Headlee has worked in public radio since 1999, as a reporter, host and correspondent. She was the Midwest Correspondent for NPR before becoming the co-host of the PRI show "The Takeaway.” After that, she guest hosted a number of NPR shows including "Tell Me More,” "Talk of the Nation,” "Weekend All Things Considered” and "Weekend Edition". Headlee also anchored election coverage for PBS World in 2012 and was a regular guest on CNN.
Headlee holds multiple degrees in music and still performs as a professional opera singer. She appears on the album “Classically Blue” from gospel artist Lea Gilmore. She's the granddaughter of composer William Grant Still.
Celeste Headlee | Speaker | TED.com